Are Primordus and Jormag truly dead?

[Ashantara.8731]

4 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Jormag didn't act out of character though. It spent all of IBS building an army, and gaining strength, just so it could fight Primordus, and kill it. So that it could be free from the "balance" that bound the two.

 

The manipulation of Bangar, the corruption of the Spirits of the Wild, the Frost Legion, making Ryland its champion, the freezing of people in the DRMs, camping on top of the ley-line hub in Anil Rock. All were plays to build itself up to fight Primordus.

 

Yes, but it still was out of character that - after all that calculated effort and smart tactics - Jormag would ultimately, from one second to the next, go: "You know, screw all that! I just want to bash your face in, Primordus! In a battle that's an obvious trap. Because... reasons."

 

Also, that doesn't change anything about the hilarious execution of the final battle: "Hey, look at me! I am all head and claws and... no, wait, that's it. Now FEAR THE FROST when I send in my one-charr army and a few frosties and those super scary pylons that you could probably stomp with your gigantic claws within the blink of an eye! ... if only you could be arsed to move, that it."

 

And, "Oh, and by the way, just ignore the fact that my jaw isn't moving when I speak." Telepathy is so much cooler than some realistic movement from that stationary puppet.

 

Then the grand finale: "Priiiimoooooorduuuuus!!! AHHHHHH!" *bash, bang, bang, breathe ... over*

 

Primordus' role during the whole ordeal? Showing his head and trying hard to put any kind of interest on display while his champion Apeham is pointlessly jumping around and growling.

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Ashantara.8731

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

47 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Yes, but it still was out of character that - after all that calculated effort and smart tactics - Jormag would ultimately, from one second to the next, go: "You know, screw all that! I just want to bash your face in, Primordus! In a battle that's an obvious trap. Because... reasons."

Except, again, this isn't what happened at all. Jormag didn't go "screw all the tactics or effort" it applied its tactics/effort, i.e. building an army, getting a Champion, and making the frozen, to gain power to fight Primordus. Jormag and Primordus' weakness are each other. They HAD to fight each other directly for one of them to kill the other. This was always part of Jormag's plan, it knew it had to do this to end it, since its literally the only way to end it.

 

Also, you seem to not understand the basic content of the fight itself. Jormag was already in the area. The spot we fight Jormag was a nexus of ley lines that ran through the places Jormag's minions froze over. It was already there to suck up the power from the frozen. We go there because it was already there. Its not an "obvious trap" that we would go to the place Jormag already was to fight it. That's just expected move anyone trying to resist it, like it knew we would, would do

47 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Also, that doesn't change anything about the hilarious execution of the final battle: "Hey, look at me! I am all head and claws and... no, wait, that's it. Now FEAR THE FROST when I send in my one-charr army and a few frosties and those super scary pylons that you could probably stomp with your gigantic claws within the blink of an eye! ... if only you could be arsed to move, that it."

 

And, "Oh, and by the way, just ignore the fact that my jaw isn't moving when I speak." Telepathy is so much cooler than some realistic movement from that stationary puppet.

 

Then the grand finale: "Priiiimoooooorduuuuus!!! AHHHHHH!" *bash, bang, bang, breathe ... over*

And

• The Mouth of Mordremoth was just a head and long neck. It didn't even have hands.
• One of the main ways to damage the Mouth is via bombs from a crashed Pact's helicopter. Which it could easily destroy, but doesn't because... reasons?
• The dialog from the Mouth of Mordremoth isn't accompanied by realistic jaw movements, most of it just booms out of the thing with no movement at all.

 

So everything you said here applies to the Mouth of Mordremoth as well. But it was ok when they did it then, but not here? Seems like a double standard.

 

And again, in the Kralk fight Kralk doesn't move, doesn't speak, and makes no real effort to stop you besides... unceremoniously putting up a shield after you stab it a few times, but utterly fail to kill it, or really DO anything to it.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Ashantara.8731]

1 hour ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Except, again, this isn't what happened at all. Jormag didn't go "screw all the tactics or effort" it applied its tactics/effort, i.e. building an army, getting a Champion, and making the frozen, to gain power to fight Primordus.

 

There were important steps missing in the story-telling! You could feel the gap, yet you are trying to convince me that the pace was sufficient for the plot, which it was not.

  

1 hour ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

And again, in the Kralk fight Kralk doesn't move, doesn't speak, and makes no real effort to stop you besides... unceremoniously putting up a shield after you stab it a few times, but utterly fail to kill it, or really DO anything to it.

 

Yes, that was ridiculous too (especially the eye-stabbing which had me in stitches), but at least we had a fantastic story mission (the one where we stab Kralkatorrik's heart) that made up for all that. The writing there did wonders to make the plot somewhat convincing and to touch the player's heart and/or mind. Nothing within the "Champions" release touched one's heart or mind - it just felt dull and dumb.

 

P.S. Also, Kralk at least had a full body, and we watched him fly around etc. The fact he did not move thereafter was explained by his injuries. The fact he did not move when we stabbed his eye was explained by him getting stuck in that mountain. What's Jormag's and Primordus' excuse??

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Ashantara.8731

[Faridah.8431]

6 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

And the Dragonstorm fight is of the same size/scope as the Mouth of Mordremoth fight.

Really? The whole Dragon's Stand map wide meta event seems far bigger and more engaging than Dragonstorm to me.

 

Or are you talking about the story instance fight with Mordremoth in Hearts and Minds?

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

31 minutes ago, Faridah.8431 said:

Really? The whole Dragon's Stand map wide meta event seems far bigger and more engaging than Dragonstorm to me.

No, i mean the actual Mouth of Mordrmeoth fight. Hence why I specifically said

3 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Dragonstorm is pretty much the Mouth of Mordremoth fight... but without the tedious 40+ minute long lane meta before it.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Faridah.8431]

1 hour ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

No, i mean the actual Mouth of Mordrmeoth fight. Hence why I specifically said

Gotcha. 

I guess I disagree. I find Dragonstorm more tedious than playing the Dragon's Stand meta events.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

16 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

I mean, that's your opinion, but IMO Victory or Death is still, by miles, the worst dragon fight in the game. Zhaitan does nothing but sit there and take you pressing 1 till he dies.

Which is so different from hitting F until they die....

[NotTooFoolish.7412]

On 7/28/2021 at 7:08 AM, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

Which is so different from hitting F until they die....

Only recently I've found a spot in Amnoon where you can press F to pay respects. We like pressing F.
Many people might have come here for epic dragon battles, but this game has much more to offer. I'm glad that we're leaving the dragon story (hopefully) for good.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

On 7/28/2021 at 12:08 AM, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

Which is so different from hitting F until they die....

Which isn't what happens since we have, you know, the entire multi stage fight involving us killing them.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

1 hour ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Which isn't what happens since we have, you know, the entire multi stage fight involving us killing them.

No, we had a multi stage battle against regular minion and the two champions, very unlike every other ED battle where we'd get to fight the real thing using more than a single key.

[Lord Korag.8439]

I think is is fair to say they are dead. Let me take as proof the Dragonvoid contains fire and ice magic.

[Narcemus.1348]

I agree, I feel like we can consider this topic done. Aside from the "we've been frozen in ice and the whole last expansion wasn't real" theory that will never happen because it would break everything, it seems fairly obvious that Jormag and Primordus' magic are both within the Dragonvoid meaning they are dead and over. Whether they were done well is just a discussion on opinion, not quantifiable and honestly just leads to roundtable arguments to see who can yell loudest.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

I think the best we can ever hope for in Jormag returning beyond more one-off moments like the Dragonvoid copy, would be if ArenaNet spent time to turn Champions into the proper four episode storyline it was originally meant to be.

Something that, before the Season 1 rerelease, I'd consider to be an impossibility to properly consider. Still one that I dont' see happening before a personal story rework to make it replayable without bugs, or a Season 2 rework to add in the Commander's voice.