How Is Damage Calculated?

[Akisohida.8963]

Like, if my attack says it does 'Burning: 3 1/4 seconds: 1,601 damage'

Is that 1,601 damage per tick? Or 1,601 damage spread out over 3 1/4 seconds?

And if it's the second one; does that make duration boosts bad, since it's spreading out the damage?

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage

 

Base strike damage is given by the following equation:

Damage done = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient)/(target's Armor)

 

Bleeding     0.06 * Condition Damage + 0.25 * Level + 2 lvl80: 0.06 * Condition Damage + 22     per second
Burning     0.155 * Condition Damage + 1.55 * Level + 7 lvl80: 0.155 * Condition Damage + 131     per second
Poisoned     0.06 * Condition Damage + 0.375 * Level + 3.5 lvl80: 0.06 * Condition Damage + 33.5     per second
Torment        0.045 * Condition Damage + 0.18 * Level + 1.5 lvl80: 0.045 * Condition Damage + 15.9     per second
Confusion     0.035 * Condition Damage + 0.1 * Level + 2 lvl80: 0.035 * Condition Damage + 10     per second
Confusion     0.0625 * Condition Damage + 0.575 * Level + 3.5 lvl80: 0.0625 * Condition Damage + 49.5     per foe skill use

Torment deals double damage to stationary targets.
Poison reduces incoming healing by 33% for its entire duration.

In short, no.  Every condition does a set amount of damage per second.  If, for an example, you were stuck at 1000 condition damage, your bleeding would do 82 damage per stack per second.  If the skill you're using only has 1 second base duration for applying 1 stack of bleed, that's 82 damage.  Add another second by having 100% condition duration for bleeding and now that same skill does 164 damage.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Sir Alymer.3406

[Akisohida.8963]

5 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage

 

Base strike damage is given by the following equation:

Damage done = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient)/(target's Armor)

 

Bleeding     0.06 * Condition Damage + 0.25 * Level + 2lvl80: 0.06 * Condition Damage + 22     per second
Burning     0.155 * Condition Damage + 1.55 * Level + 7lvl80: 0.155 * Condition Damage + 131     per second
Poisoned     0.06 * Condition Damage + 0.375 * Level + 3.5lvl80: 0.06 * Condition Damage + 33.5     per second
Torment        0.045 * Condition Damage + 0.18 * Level + 1.5lvl80: 0.045 * Condition Damage + 15.9     per second
Confusion     0.035 * Condition Damage + 0.1 * Level + 2lvl80: 0.035 * Condition Damage + 10     per second
Confusion     0.0625 * Condition Damage + 0.575 * Level + 3.5lvl80: 0.0625 * Condition Damage + 49.5     per foe skill use

Torment deals double damage to stationary targets.
Poison reduces incoming healing by 33% for its entire duration.

 

Thank you but that is not quite what I meant. 🙂 Good info to have, though!

I just mean, in my example, is the 'Burning: 3 1/4 seconds: 1,601 damage' doing 1,601 damage over 3 1/4 seconds? 

Or is it 1,601 damage per tick (or second) for 3 1/4 seconds?

[Infusion.7149]

It's the total damage over the entire duration.

[Akisohida.8963]

Just now, Infusion.7149 said:

It's the total damage over the entire duration.

So the damage will go up with Duration Up runes? Because spreading 1600 over 4 seconds is worse than spreading 1600 over 3 seconds.

[Infusion.7149]

People usually try to hit duration cap for PVE (100% duration) because there's a tradeoff between condition damage and duration. Breakpoints are listed on the wiki , for burning it is 655
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition_Damage

[Khisanth.2948]

1 minute ago, Akisohida.8963 said:

So the damage will go up with Duration Up runes? Because spreading 1600 over 4 seconds is worse than spreading 1600 over 3 seconds.

No idea where you get the idea that it is spreading anything.

 

If it did 100 damage per tick and lasted 1 second it does 100 damage total

If it did 100 damage per tick and you increased duration to 2 seconds it does 200 damage total

The damaged listed is just "damage per tick" x duration.  Increasing either value will increase total damage

 

If you wanted actual confusing skill facts you should look at strike damage instead. For multi hit skills sometimes it is per hit damage and sometimes it is damage of all hits =_=.

[Akisohida.8963]

1 minute ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

No idea where you get the idea that it is spreading anything.

 

If it did 100 damage per tick and lasted 1 second it does 100 damage total

If it did 100 damage per tick and you increased duration to 2 seconds it does 200 damage total

The damaged listed is just "damage per tick" x duration.  Increasing either value will increase total damage

 

If you wanted actual confusing skill facts you should look at strike damage instead. For multi hit skills sometimes it is per hit damage and sometimes it is damage of all hits =_=.

Oh! So what I'm seeing in ' 'Burning: 3 1/4 seconds: 1,601 damage' is Duration and Total Damage!

 

So if I raise Duration; damage goes up, because the Burning is applied longer, at whatever damage I'm doing per second.

And if I raise damage...well, damage does up.

 

I thought the '1,601 damage' was my flat damage, being spread over the duration. Oops.

[firedragon.8953]

So math is hard, but basically you want 100% duration for max damage (in PvE anyway).

The calculations in GW2 make it so 100% duration (more is not more, so don't build to have like 120% or something)  which is affected by expertise, sigils, etc.) and will give you the most damage boost. This is why damage condi builds usually prefer Viper's gear, because of the expertise. Let's just say you do 100 damager per tick. You do 3 seconds of damage 100x3 = 300 damage. If you increase duration to 5 seconds then you will do 100x5 = 500. If the target condi-clears, etc., then yeah you loose overall damage, but this is why these duration builds are aimed more at PvE which doesn't really do condi-clearing often. If you increase condition damage, you will get more damage per tick, but how the math works out you get more overall damage per skill if you increase your duration rather than your condition damage.

In the skill description that shows damage, that is the calculated damage given the stated duration in the same description (or I'm pretty sure it is anyway).

Edited July 16, 2021 by firedragon.8953

[wolfsblut.9435]

The important effect of duration is simply that you are able to stack more condis on to the target.

[anduriell.6280]

5 hours ago, Akisohida.8963 said:

So the damage will go up with Duration Up runes? Because spreading 1600 over 4 seconds is worse than spreading 1600 over 3 seconds.

Whenever you have doubts about how much per tick you can check this website: 

Build Editor :: Guild Wars 2 Skills

Once you fill your build it will give you the damage/tick when you mouse over the condition icon. 

[Akisohida.8963]

6 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Whenever you have doubts about how much per tick you can check this website: 

Build Editor :: Guild Wars 2 Skills

Once you fill your build it will give you the damage/tick when you mouse over the condition icon. 

That build thing is pretty cool.

 

Sadly, it does not seem to do under level 80, or below Exotic/Ascended gear, so I can't put my gear into it, but it gives me an idea of how damage is calculated. Thank you 🙂

[Dawdler.8521]

10 minutes ago, Akisohida.8963 said:

That build thing is pretty cool.

 

Sadly, it does not seem to do under level 80, or below Exotic/Ascended gear, so I can't put my gear into it, but it gives me an idea of how damage is calculated. Thank you 🙂

You dont really need to know what damage you have below 80/exotic because it doesnt matter. You would have noticed how damage work at 80 anyway - if your skill says it does 25k damage with 15 seconds duration in PvP, its either total damage over 15s or you'd kill everyone in a second. Guess whats more likely, lol.

[Akisohida.8963]

4 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

You dont really need to know what damage you have below 80/exotic because it doesnt matter. You would have noticed how damage work at 80 anyway - if your skill says it does 25k damage with 15 seconds duration in PvP, its either total damage over 15s or you'd kill everyone in a second. Guess whats more likely, lol.

True! 😛

My only other puzzlement over that build website is that I put Renegade in my Specilization slot...but it's in red and I don't think it's adding properly.

What I mean is, I took a talent in Renegade that increases Bleeding Duration by 25%, but it DID NOT increase any Bleeding Duration of my attacks.

 

So I think I made an error, and it's telling me I cannot use the Renegade tree?

 

Here is what I have done so far: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?Pm1AUlflxQHMPyh1RNMO6hRSfMCKgFzl7TD-zxQYsIG+RBMGFSgEFQ3YIIhweAA-e

 

Edit: Well, the bleeding updated when I switched weapons...But I wonder why the Elite tree is highlighted in red...

Edited July 16, 2021 by Akisohida.8963

[Akisohida.8963]

10 hours ago, firedragon.8953 said:

If you increase condition damage, you will get more damage per tick, but how the math works out you get more overall damage per skill if you increase your duration rather than your condition damage.

Umm...That does not seem right.

Using the calculator, I had over 1,000 more damage stacking Con Damage (Around 2500 bleed damage), which I lost if I decided to drop Con Damage for Expertise  (Where it dropped to 1,000 Bleed Damage.)

Check it:
Expertise: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?Pm1AUlflxQHMPyh1RNMO6hRSfMCKgFzl7TD-zRIYdUzGjCJQiCobMEkQYPAA-e

 

Condition Damage: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?Pm1AUlflxQHMPyh1RNMO6hRSfMCKgFzl7TD-zRIYcUzGjCJQiCobMEkQYPAA-e

I do over 1,400 more bleed if I stack con damage instead of Expertise?

Unless I misunderstood, since Expertise = Con Duration...

[starlinvf.1358]

9 hours ago, wolfsblut.9435 said:

The important effect of duration is simply that you are able to stack more condis on to the target.

 

High stacks don't change the total damage output.   The numbers just look bigger, because its condensed into fewer ticks. 

[starlinvf.1358]

1 hour ago, Akisohida.8963 said:

Umm...That does not seem right.

Using the calculator, I had over 1,000 more damage stacking Con Damage (Around 2500 bleed damage), which I lost if I decided to drop Con Damage for Expertise  (Where it dropped to 1,000 Bleed Damage.)

Check it:
Expertise: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?Pm1AUlflxQHMPyh1RNMO6hRSfMCKgFzl7TD-zRIYdUzGjCJQiCobMEkQYPAA-e

 

Condition Damage: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?Pm1AUlflxQHMPyh1RNMO6hRSfMCKgFzl7TD-zRIYcUzGjCJQiCobMEkQYPAA-e

I do over 1,400 more bleed if I stack con damage instead of Expertise?

Unless I misunderstood, since Expertise = Con Duration...

 

 

Ok to kind of demystify this...... theres a non-specific quirk of the game's equipment and upgrades where Duration is easier to obtain per option then Condition damage (which is only given as a stat bonus). 

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition_Damage

 

In short... flat bonuses tend to give better yields then stat bonuses, due to how the Devs balance those numbers.  So if its a choice between 10% duration vs 10% Condi damage (which is always as a stat): the duration bonus scales better (automatically 10% more damage overall), because the Condi damage stat has to deal with both a low starting base value (rarely goes above 1000, where other stats at 1000) that the 10% scales off of, combined with damage conditions themselves all having low damage-coefficients.  So 10% extra condition damage at 1000 Condi stat (from your build) is, at best 100 condition damage bonus, which then translates to an extra 6 dmg for bleeds, or 15.5 dmg for burning. 

 

To get an idea of that scale.... at 1k condi damage you get 82 dmg per tick on bleeds.  At 1.1k its 88 dmg.  So its not even a full 10% extra damage.  With Burning its 286 at 1k stat, and 301 at 1.1k.. which is 5% difference.

 

The few cases where condition damage is more directly effective over longer duration is when the enemy purges conditions, or HP is too small to get a full ramp up before dying.    Remember that condition builds are usually back loaded, and take several seconds to ramp up to full DPS.   This is why you favor duration bonuses to hit the cap if theres contention between the two options. 

 

The above is also why Expertise is a often in a weird place in damage calculations, because its got that same scaling bonus issue as all the other stats get hung up on.  But this is considered a non-problem in most builds, as Expertise has so few sources that trying to optimize the stat makes everything else more difficult.   And since condi builds all default to Vipers anyway, its just easier to use that as the starting point, and close the rest of the duration gap using flat bonuses. 

[Akisohida.8963]

30 minutes ago, starlinvf.1358 said:

 

 

Ok to kind of demystify this...... theres a non-specific quirk of the game's equipment and upgrades where Duration is easier to obtain per option then Condition damage (which is only given as a stat bonus). 

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition_Damage

 

In short... flat bonuses tend to give better yields then stat bonuses, due to how the Devs balance those numbers.  So if its a choice between 10% duration vs 10% Condi damage (which is always as a stat): the duration bonus scales better (automatically 10% more damage overall), because the Condi damage stat has to deal with both a low starting base value (rarely goes above 1000, where other stats at 1000) that the 10% scales off of, combined with damage conditions themselves all having low damage-coefficients.  So 10% extra condition damage at 1000 Condi stat (from your build) is, at best 100 condition damage bonus, which then translates to an extra 6 dmg for bleeds, or 15.5 dmg for burning. 

 

To get an idea of that scale.... at 1k condi damage you get 82 dmg per tick on bleeds.  At 1.1k its 88 dmg.  So its not even a full 10% extra damage.  With Burning its 286 at 1k stat, and 301 at 1.1k.. which is 5% difference.

 

The few cases where condition damage is more directly effective over longer duration is when the enemy purges conditions, or HP is too small to get a full ramp up before dying.    Remember that condition builds are usually back loaded, and take several seconds to ramp up to full DPS.   This is why you favor duration bonuses to hit the cap if theres contention between the two options. 

 

The above is also why Expertise is a often in a weird place in damage calculations, because its got that same scaling bonus issue as all the other stats get hung up on.  But this is considered a non-problem in most builds, as Expertise has so few sources that trying to optimize the stat makes everything else more difficult.   And since condi builds all default to Vipers anyway, its just easier to use that as the starting point, and close the rest of the duration gap using flat bonuses. 

 

Allot of that went over my head. But I'm guessing it means this is not the best condition build I could do at level 80?
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?Pm1AUlflxQLMPaj1RaMOKjRSjMCygFzl7TD-zRIYcU/fKFIBSQB0lYQh9NBB6Ihwe4B-e

And I am planning on going Renegade because I like bows, so it has to be Renegade.

[Dawdler.8521]

31 minutes ago, Akisohida.8963 said:

 

Allot of that went over my head. But I'm guessing it means this is not the best condition build I could do at level 80?
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?Pm1AUlflxQLMPaj1RaMOKjRSjMCygFzl7TD-zRIYcU/fKFIBSQB0lYQh9NBB6Ihwe4B-e

And I am planning on going Renegade because I like bows, so it has to be Renegade.

"Best" is relative, but the TL;DR is:
In PvE you use full glass cannon with both condi and expertise ie viper
In WvW you prioritize condition damage over expertise due to condi cleansing

In sPvP you take whatever amulet best suit you because they're all crippled

[starlinvf.1358]

1 hour ago, Akisohida.8963 said:

 

Allot of that went over my head. But I'm guessing it means this is not the best condition build I could do at level 80?
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?Pm1AUlflxQLMPaj1RaMOKjRSjMCygFzl7TD-zRIYcU/fKFIBSQB0lYQh9NBB6Ihwe4B-e

And I am planning on going Renegade because I like bows, so it has to be Renegade.

 

For the sake of argument... lvl 80 is the only context that matters.  So stating level is kind of a moot point.   Same goes for gear, since the difference between Exotic and Ascended is not enough to be a deal breaker for the math in 99% of build.   As a side bar: Most of us just assume ascended gear with no infusions, since (over time) full ascended gear is relatively easy to get with all the available sources from LS3 and onward. 

 

Quick side note... the reason you don't see the bleed duration bonus is because its contingent on Fury.  On the second bar at the top theres a list of boon and buffs that you can click on.  Those activate the effect for the editor's calculations. 

Second Side note.... I wouldn't add infusions into the mix, because they're insanely expensive to obtain.  Plus you don't really need them unless you're doing high level fractals. 

 

........

 

So heres one of the meta builds for fractals focusing on condi damage.

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmwAUlflhQLsIajJRaMIKjBSjMBygjuk5TF-zRJYmR9fhEXGEZIUZBI8A-e

 

So the 2 basic problems with your build is that you have a lot of Power focused traits, but all your attacks and gear are condition heavy.   This basically means everything you took in devastation is going to waste, because it only applies to strike damage.  The build I linked has 100 less condition damage, but averages 20% condition damage per attack, and double the direct damage (even if its minor).  Using Corruption trait line also gives you access extra conditions and makes all of them more potent.   Secondly, I'm not sure what the intent was with using Retribution, but you took most of the close-range traits when you said you were shooting for more of a ranged build.  

 

 

Theres also an open world variant that trades Invocation for Devastation, and uses that trait line to give yourself a ton of life steal for self sustain. 

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmwAUlflhQLsIajJRaMIKjBSjMBygju1/TF-zRJYmR9fhEXGEZIUZBI8A-e

Edited July 16, 2021 by starlinvf.1358

[Khisanth.2948]

2 hours ago, starlinvf.1358 said:

So if its a choice between 10% duration vs 10% Condi damage (which is always as a stat): the duration bonus scales better (automatically 10% more damage overall), because the Condi damage stat has to deal with both a low starting base value (rarely goes above 1000, where other stats at 1000) that the 10% scales off of, combined with damage conditions themselves all having low damage-coefficients.  So 10% extra condition damage at 1000 Condi stat (from your build) is, at best 100 condition damage bonus, which then translates to an extra 6 dmg for bleeds, or 15.5 dmg for burning. 

Except when consistent inconsistency rears its ugly head and "Condition damage" actually means "damage done by conditions" rather than your Condition Damage state such as sigil of bursting and rune of the berserker