Innovator

[Quench.7091]

I can't pin down that 8th icon at all. It's mechanical looking, but it looks like  some stylized daggers or some crazy invention. I still can't even really understand the holosmith icon! Can't we go back to the good old days of having a hammer or a bomb?

[Kodama.6453]

26 minutes ago, Quench.7091 said:

I can't pin down that 8th icon at all. It's mechanical looking, but it looks like  some stylized daggers or some crazy invention. I still can't even really understand the holosmith icon! Can't we go back to the good old days of having a hammer or a bomb?

I think the 8th icon is guardian. First it was just because of elimination for me (I attributed all other icons to other classes), but someone pointed a detail out for me which reinforced me in thinking that the 8th icon might indeed be guardian.

 

It is hidden, but the icon might actually reference the ankh symbol of guardians in the design! Here is a visual presentation of what I mean:

https://imgur.com/CpuzXai

 

I know, it might seem like a stretch. But I also simply can't see this icon as representing engineer. The arms don't look mechanical to me, but fleshy. The pauldrons don't look like something an engineer would build.

 

And the icon also screams power damage, but both engineer elite specs so far have already been power damage focused. What we need is a condition damage focused spec, which the 9th icon represents way better with the gas/fire surrounding the bomb/flask. It also references the core engineer icon.

[Lurker.3609]

3 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

One detail I want to point out about this character, btw: this is not the engineer elite spec.

 

This character is human and engineer elite specs are always showcased in art by Charr. Core engi, scrapper, holosmith, they are all Charr in their art.

I know it's not meant to be showcased as an elite spec. It doesn't mean though that it's not the same new tech engineers are going to be using as their, may I remind, "heavily inspired by Cantha" elite spec.

Besides, it's isolationist Cantha that threw out all non-humans. Who else is gonna be on the page about canthan history, iboga with dragonjade tech petals?

[insanemaniac.2456]

8 hours ago, Quench.7091 said:

 I still can't even really understand the holosmith icon! 

Fidget spinner

[hugo.4705]

Nah on the contrary, the jade engineer artwork point toward the last icon, the potion. I doubt a lot that engineer spec is the heavy dude icon. This is to me guardian. It would be weird to symbolise a golem this way. I hear a lot saying the last icon potion is necro, but this is non sense, it is more logical that necro is the bullet one. The artwork doesn't show a jade engineer in a mech but just having a gauntlet.

 

Imho spec icons kinda follow a nomenclature and style, it represents an element you immediately think about when someone give the corresponding word or the mechanic used.

Let's review rapidly what we have currently:

 

Engineer / Scrapper / Holosmith

A grenade/bomb, a hammer, photon forge symbol

So what it can use. But also main mechanic/weapon/skill you have. 

Icons have curves or circle in them.

 

Ranger / Druid / Soulbeast

Paw, moon and sun, paw divided in two

More about what they use, animal, like druid use astronomy or mystic energy, the ranger and pet can fuse.

 

Elem / weaver / tempest

Flame, two line in a S shape, tornado

How they use the magic. Normal, use two element or devastating focused attacks.

They like to feature element like a flame or air.

 

Guardian / firebrand / dragonhunter

Shield with heal symbol, a kind of axe, kind of dragon head.

Maybe roles, defense, using a axe, and killing dragon.

The icon in itself inspire defense or justice.

 

Necro / Reaper / Scourge

Skull / hooded / Cut S or circle

Death, death shroud, creating wounds

So role.

Icons are sharps and feature if possible triangles or sharp angles.

 

And so on.....

 

That's why i think potion is alchemist, for engie. And golem like is for guardian. Look at firebrand, it us a kind of imposant icon too.

Bullet is for necro with its sharp lines.

The fire around a gem is of course elementalist.

The katanas and gems is thief of course because or the look of the icon, deadeye feature kind if gems and triangles.

Warrior is the face. Why? Core warrior is a face (helmet)

The strange H eye is revenant because revenant and renegade follows the same logic.

Of course the creature face is ranger.

 

The potion is engie, because it makes 0 sense for any of other classes .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 29, 2021 by hugo.4705

[Quench.7091]

Something to note about that bullet icon is that it focuses on the physical nature of the bullet. That whirl around it is the rotation of the bullet. The things Infront of it indicate it cutting through the air. A necromancer wouldn't focus on the physicality of their projectiles.

[Kodama.6453]

32 minutes ago, Quench.7091 said:

Something to note about that bullet icon is that it focuses on the physical nature of the bullet. That whirl around it is the rotation of the bullet. The things Infront of it indicate it cutting through the air. A necromancer wouldn't focus on the physicality of their projectiles.

It is your interpretation of the icon, but it doesn't necessarily indicate physical features.

 

How I see it, these markers are there to show that the bullet is infused with magic. In my specific interpretation, it is a cursed bullet.

 

Cursed bullet is a skill which got removed from deadeye a long time ago. Maybe they want to bring the theme back with necromancer, it would make alot of sense.

[Quench.7091]

2 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

It is your interpretation of the icon, but it doesn't necessarily indicate physical features.

 

How I see it, these markers are there to show that the bullet is infused with magic. In my specific interpretation, it is a cursed bullet.

 

Cursed bullet is a skill which got removed from deadeye a long time ago. Maybe they want to bring the theme back with necromancer, it would make alot of sense.

I'm going to guess that the 9th icon is a cursed priming flask. That demonic eye appearance and magic aura doesn't seem to imply pure intentions.

 

The motion blur, spin, and piercing symbols seem really physical. I'm expecting the warrior to take that one up.

[Kodama.6453]

2 minutes ago, Quench.7091 said:

I'm going to guess that the 9th icon is a cursed priming flask. That demonic eye appearance and magic aura doesn't seem to imply pure intentions.

 

The motion blur, spin, and piercing symbols seem really physical. I'm expecting the warrior to take that one up.

I don't see the thing inside the flask as an eye, but a jade shard personally. It could be there to indicate the use of the dragonjade technology.

 

There is a small detail in the bullet icon which makes me think that it is not a picture of just physical attributes like that the bullet is spinning:

https://imgur.com/lFL0zwI

 

This is not how you portray "spinning", this circle there makes it look more like this line is curling around the bullet. Which reinforces my belief that this is supposed to indicate that this is a bullet infused with magic.

 

Which feeds back in my opinion that this is the necromancer icon.

The flask also doesn't have a "magic aura" necessarily. It could also be that it is surrounded by poisonous gas or flames, which reads "condition damage", something that engineer desperately needs out of it's new elite spec,

[Quench.7091]

2 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

I don't see the thing inside the flask as an eye, but a jade shard personally. It could be there to indicate the use of the dragonjade technology.

 

There is a small detail in the bullet icon which makes me think that it is not a picture of just physical attributes like that the bullet is spinning:

https://imgur.com/lFL0zwI

 

This is not how you portray "spinning", this circle there makes it look more like this line is curling around the bullet. Which reinforces my belief that this is supposed to indicate that this is a bullet infused with magic.

 

Which feeds back in my opinion that this is the necromancer icon.

The flask also doesn't have a "magic aura" necessarily. It could also be that it is surrounded by poisonous gas or flames, which reads "condition damage", something that engineer desperately needs out of it's new elite spec,

When it comes to spirals wrapping around an object, it usually implies a force that is both spinning and moving the object forward. If I wanted to portray a necromancer's bullet, I wouldn't show symbols of force in the icon at all. Not piercing, not motion blur, not a spiral. That would be mixed messages for something that is meant to put things simply. Take #9 for example. An object shrouded by something potent, to match the smoke flowing from the necromancer's gun barrel, among other hints.

 

Here is why I think #9 is the necromancer:
https://i.imgur.com/jnXvr0p.jpeg

A round flask-like object spilling out some substance. The necromancer is surrounded by fumes.

Edited July 30, 2021 by Quench.7091

[Kodama.6453]

9 minutes ago, Quench.7091 said:

When it comes to spirals wrapping around an object, it usually implies a force that is both spinning and moving the object forward. If I wanted to portray a necromancer's bullet, I wouldn't show symbols of force in the icon at all. Not piercing, not motion blur, not a spiral. That would be mixed messages for something that is meant to put things simply. Take #9 for example. An object shrouded by something potent, to match the smoke flowing from the necromancer's gun barrel, among other hints.

 

Here is why I think #9 is the necromancer:
https://imgur.com/jnXvr0p
A round flask-like object spilling out some substance. The necromancer is surrounded by fumes.

I guess you didn't look at the image I provided.

 

Yes, spirals can be used to indicate spinning and an object propelling forward. However, for this to make sense, all force lines of the spiral have to move in the opposite direction of the movement of the object, meaning that all lines going of from the spiral need to move downwards here.

 

The image I showed clearly shows that this is not the case. There is that circle coming from the spiral which moves upwards, in the same direction the bullet is going.

 

This can't just be a case of showing that the bullet is spinning and flying in a direction, the spiral needs to indicate something else. Like magic, for example.

 

And yes, I know many people think the 9th icon belongs to necro because of the flask on the belt. But if Anet really does this, then I consider this a major design kitten up. The symbol resembles the engineer icon too much, whenever I see it my first thought would be "this is a version of engineer".

 

It's the same like if they would create a guardian elite spec and gives it footprints of a dragon as an icon (for example for dragonhunter). The first association would be "ranger elite", because of the precedence of the paw designs.

 

One other major problem with the thought that 9 belongs to necromancer is that there are just 2 icons which I could possibly imagine to be engineer: 8 and 9.

 

But 8 would be terrible for several reasons for me.

The icon clearly reads "this is a power based, tanky spec". Which is literally what we already have with scrapper. What we need is a condition elite spec, which icon 9 seems to be because of the flames/poison gas surrounding the flask.

 

8 also would say that we once again focus on engineer as a "constructor or mechanical devices". Which we already explored through scrapper once again.

 

Engineer has more themsstics to explore. I want to dive deeper in the chemical aspects of the engineer, which icon 9 could indicate. We already had the bulky constructor with scrapper.... why give us more of the same?

[Quench.7091]

3 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

I guess you didn't look at the image I provided.

 

Yes, spirals can be used to indicate spinning and an object propelling forward. However, for this to make sense, all force lines of the spiral have to move in the opposite direction of the movement of the object, meaning that all lines going of from the spiral need to move downwards here.

 

The image I showed clearly shows that this is not the case. There is that circle coming from the spiral which moves upwards, in the same direction the bullet is going.

 

This can't just be a case of showing that the bullet is spinning and flying in a direction, the spiral needs to indicate something else. Like magic, for example.

 

And yes, I know many people think the 9th icon belongs to necro because of the flask on the belt. But if Anet really does this, then I consider this a major design kitten up. The symbol resembles the engineer icon too much, whenever I see it my first thought would be "this is a version of engineer".

 

It's the same like if they would create a guardian elite spec and gives it footprints of a dragon as an icon (for example for dragonhunter). The first association would be "ranger elite", because of the precedence of the paw designs.

 

One other major problem with the thought that 9 belongs to necromancer is that there are just 2 icons which I could possibly imagine to be engineer: 8 and 9.

 

But 8 would be terrible for several reasons for me.

The icon clearly reads "this is a power based, tanky spec". Which is literally what we already have with scrapper. What we need is a condition elite spec, which icon 9 seems to be because of the flames/poison gas surrounding the flask.

 

8 also would say that we once again focus on engineer as a "constructor or mechanical devices". Which we already explored through scrapper once again.

 

Engineer has more themsstics to explore. I want to dive deeper in the chemical aspects of the engineer, which icon 9 could indicate. We already had the bulky constructor with scrapper.... why give us more of the same?

For the bullet discussion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifling

The spirals on the bullet seem to be inspired by the way bullets are spun through a barrel of a gun. Bullets move forward, but are spun within the barrel to stabilize it. I see an artistically drawn spiral that was drawn with a brush tool to represent a physical force. I don't see magic.

I'm a bit curious what the substance in that necromancer's flask is. I can see where it could be disappointing. My guess is that the green substance is something spiritual, so I don't think they'll step on the engineer's toes if this is true. I use the elixir gun a ton, so I'm hoping they make whatever it is very distinct.

[Kodama.6453]

6 minutes ago, Quench.7091 said:

For the bullet discussion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifling

The spirals on the bullet seem to be inspired by the way bullets are spun through a barrel of a gun. Bullets move forward, but are spun within the barrel to stabilize it. I see an artistically drawn spiral that was drawn with a brush tool to represent a physical force. I don't see magic.

I'm a bit curious what the substance in that necromancer's flask is. I can see where it could be disappointing. My guess is that the green substance is something spiritual, so I don't think they'll step on the engineer's toes if this is true. I use the elixir gun a ton, so I'm hoping they make whatever it is very distinct.

I feel like I am talking against a wall and that you completely ignore the picture and explanation I provided.... sigh... let's try once again.

 

I know what rifling is. And I know the general physical concepts you suggest are pictured here. I am trying to show you that the actual reality of the icon does not support this to be just a showcase of rifling.

 

https://imgur.com/THKkHO4

Physics would say that all the lines of the spiral blur into the opposite direction of the movement of the bullet. And yes, some of these lines makes total sense to just be there to give a feeling of "speed and force", I marked these with the green circles.

However, there are also blurs and lines moving into the same direction of the movement going out from the spiral. I marked these with the red circles.

 

Physically, it makes no sense that these lines are moving in that direction on a flying bullet. This is not solely a display of physical principles, something else is going on here. Air would not move upwards of the bullet like this, it makes no sense.

And this is why I think that this is a display of this bullet being infused with magic, that these lines are not just force lines and there to showcase rifling and speed. That these lines are probably a magical power creeping up on the bullet.

[Quench.7091]

5 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

I feel like I am talking against a wall and that you completely ignore the picture and explanation I provided.... sigh... let's try once again.

 

I know what rifling is. And I know the general physical concepts you suggest are pictured here. I am trying to show you that the actual reality of the icon does not support this to be just a showcase of rifling.

 

https://imgur.com/THKkHO4

Physics would say that all the lines of the spiral blur into the opposite direction of the movement of the bullet. And yes, some of these lines makes total sense to just be there to give a feeling of "speed and force", I marked these with the green circles.

However, there are also blurs and lines moving into the same direction of the movement going out from the spiral. I marked these with the red circles.

 

Physically, it makes no sense that these lines are moving in that direction on a flying bullet. This is not solely a display of physical principles, something else is going on here. Air would not move upwards of the bullet like this, it makes no sense.

And this is why I think that this is a display of this bullet being infused with magic, that these lines are not just force lines and there to showcase rifling and speed. That these lines are probably a magical power creeping up on the bullet.

 

When it comes to brush strokes, sometimes those artistic liberties are taken.

[Stalima.5490]

On 7/29/2021 at 11:01 AM, Quench.7091 said:

I can't pin down that 8th icon at all. It's mechanical looking, but it looks like  some stylized daggers or some crazy invention. I still can't even really understand the holosmith icon! Can't we go back to the good old days of having a hammer or a bomb?

 

It looks like 2 guys kneeling to the one in the middle, think of the top part like helmets and you'll see it

[Raknar.4735]

Yep, looks like a golemancer/jade-mechsuit spec to me. 

[hugo.4705]

Innovator. What a weird name. I hate it. Hope it isn't the name.

Since the starts I'm stuck with the idea of the flask being our icon, the Jade alchemist.

The icon quite bulky, and I see more a big musles guardian (especially arms) having big spaulders for the sake of purging and showing I am the law, I am the justice. The head of the icon is round, like a human one, not a diamond like a golem.

The arms are to me big spaulders with under big muscles hands. Wait to thick for let's say a prosthetic arm. Even spaulders, Engie is medium, not heavy.

 

Through. The icon look like somehow Abaddon golems aka Guardian of Secrets:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guardian_of_Secrets#/media/File:Guardian_of_Secrets.jpg

Having a quite triangular body shape. Ohh Zelda BOTW sentry vibes.

But it is also quite triangular and bulky like GW1 juggernaut:

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Kurzick_Juggernaut#/media/File:Juggernaut.jpg

 

I would be the first one jumping in a hype train for a Golemancer specialization. Innovator sounds bad to ears.

But I'm concerned by so many choices along the different icons:

1-Does the second one, two blades and three initiative diamond is for thief or guardian?

2-Does the bullet one is for necromancer or is it for elementalist with a magic attenued bullet? A necro with soul bullet?

3-Does the golem like icon is for engineer, or is it in fact a bulky guardian or warrior?

4-Does the last one is for necromancer because of having a flask on its belt or it is engineer?

 

Well I stick on my position of them being in order from left to right, up to down:

Mesmer - Ranger - Thief - Elementalist - Warrior - Revenant - Necromancer - Guardian - Engineer

 

Why? Asura golemancers, have a blue theme, they use shield, they have golems, they can heal. They are guardians.

A golem is a way to guard something, to protect peoples in the needs. They are sentries originally to me.

See movies like the castle in the sky, or layton azran legacy, the golems are meant to protect originally, being part of sanctuaries. Even in zelda if you start thinking of Phantoms, Sentries...

 

 

Final point, Engineer icons like to feature circles and curves. Engineer so far had Kits + turrets / electricity + magnetism + gyros that are kind of inventions + hammer / holograms and light + lasers.

So, well yes, the AI golems path still remain with the other path of advanced chemicals and alchemy.

But as I said, golems will be guardians, and us engie will get chemicals.

 

Will not lie, but the EOD page illustration gave me strong vibe of: https://www.redbubble.com/fr/i/coque-ipad/Fullmetal-Alchemist-Edward-Elric-and-Alphonse-par-Bucth/28470753.MNKGF the character brother is also a kind of golem (yes i know soul in armor but still). Alchemy to me is kinda binded to engineering. You transform a metal into another, with infinite possibilities of creating new solutions for the world or making life better or worse. (Hello scary dog-girl abobination).

 

I agree that the flask baubles has kind of corrosive bubbles and an eye, but eye, like dragon eye, like dragon jade. So maybe...engie.

I also have a different take on the last icon, what if it is a monocle/goggle or the wrist of the arm of the artwork on the eod page? So kinda hinting as prosthetics too?

 

If the specialization is about having a mecha arm, then the icon should be a mecha arm..... if it is the mechanic that icons are hinting at, then the icon is a golem. To me it not having feet, may indicate it is floating:

Kinda like that: https://www.deviantart.com/iron-sage/art/Floating-Golem-310140626

Imagine the bottom being a dragon jade spike/stalagtite.

[Stalima.5490]

23 hours ago, hugo.4705 said:

3-Does the golem like icon is for engineer, or is it in fact a bulky guardian or warrior?

 

Like I said, i don't think those are "arms" but rather 2 people praising an icon in the center, this could place it as the guardian symbol or possibly some kind of ritualist.

[Kodama.6453]

8 minutes ago, Stalima.5490 said:

 

Like I said, i don't think those are "arms" but rather 2 people praising an icon in the center, this could place it as the guardian symbol or possibly some kind of ritualist.

I don't see it at all. Those are clearly arms and huge pauldrons for me.

 

Still hope that this one turns out to be for guardian, since it looks like a melee bruiser spec, which is something we don't need.

[Stalima.5490]

Just now, Kodama.6453 said:

I don't see it at all. Those are clearly arms and huge pauldrons for me.

 

Still hope that this one turns out to be for guardian, since it looks like a melee bruiser spec, which is something we don't need.

 

Look at the center as an altar with an orb floating above it with 2 robed figures wearing elaborate headpieces to the left and right "worshiping" it or so.

[Kodama.6453]

2 minutes ago, Stalima.5490 said:

 

Look at the center as an altar with an orb floating above it with 2 robed figures wearing elaborate headpieces to the left and right "worshiping" it or so.

Okay, I think the proportions are ridiculous in this case (a combination of gigantic heads, tiny arms, and either big feet or they are wearing plateau shoes), but it could be stylised.

 

I think it is less likely than the interpretation of the arms, tho. I don't think that anet would use picturing of multiple people as an icon for an elite spec. If the idea would really be something like ritualist or such, then it would be more probably to just make it an abstract symbol representing them as religious leaders than showing a direct image of something being worshipped.

[Aeolus.3615]

On 7/27/2021 at 8:18 PM, Lurker.3609 said:

Behold your engineer elite spec, the Innovator.

Name is used both in the trailer and on the End of Dragons page. Apparently it has something to do with prosthetic dragonjade limbs too.

 

 

https://i.imgur.com/QQW09nW.png

 

It actually looks like a heavy class helm, just noticed it now lol

Edited August 6, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[Nazarick.9653]

Now that the last icon has gone, what are we getting? The bullet, even though we already have both guns? Diamond fire for a dot spec, even though it fits other classes better? Or is it going to be golems after all?

Edited August 13, 2021 by Nazarick.9653

[MrForz.1953]

1 hour ago, Nazarick.9653 said:

Now that the last icon has gone, what are we getting? The bullet, even though we already have both guns? Diamond fire for a dot spec, even though it fits other classes better? Or is it going to be golems after all?

 

That's the magic of it, we don't know.

[Random Wax Orc.7695]

Seeing the extremely high mobility options of the first three EoD elite specs, I am expecting engineer to get a slow low mobility tank golemancer elite that is only effective against low mobility mobs and utterly useless around any aoe.  Why pessimistic?  Because Anet isn't saving the best reveal for last.  I want a plethora of build options in an Engineer Elite, and unless Anet overturns the whole Engineer must waste utility slots on core kits because of limited weapon options and no swap, the Engineer is once again going to be "lol Engie" when the one usable build gets nerfed.