The condition hate is cemented into the community

[Crab Fear.1624]

29 minutes ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

1 Same thing as power
2 same thing as power
3 Power builds also apply movement conditions, blind and weakness, power herald as all 3 you mentioned while being a staple power build that has been around for a while.
4 Doesnt matter, amulet that gives 2k condi damage doesnt exist, condi amulets give same survivability as power amulets, if you want carrion level survivability, use avatar as power build. Everyone uses maruder/demo/berserker cuz they can afford to give up survivability for damage, due to traits or having different playstyle, condi is more limited.
5 No, the difference is that power sigils give you power damage, condi give you DURATION, which not always gives you damage ( which is a criteria in itself ) but also they work on 1 condition only, while doing nothing for all the others ( which is also a criteria in itself ). For example, my build that deals 50-70% of its damage with bleed, wont use bleed duration sigil, as they do nothing, nobody is going to keep the bleed for kittening 15s.
6 Depends on the build, I played around with Csoulbeast that only had healing skill as condi cleanse, in general power builds can afford to take less, since they dont have to stick around as long.
7 There is no such thing as one stat damage, amulet that gives only condi damage does not exist, im FORCED to take power + condi or crit chance + condi, which means AT LEAST 2 stats.  Power builds can do exactly the same thing by taking avatar amulet

You just made general points that can apply to all builds, not just condi or power, tell me nades holo is not succesfull at range? tell me its not primary aoe build, tell me it doesnt apply condis, or power renegade, long range, big aoe, low cd, bunch of everything. It all applies.

No 1 and 2 and not same thing as power

[Crab Fear.1624]

32 minutes ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

1 Same thing as power
2 same thing as power
3 Power builds also apply movement conditions, blind and weakness, power herald as all 3 you mentioned while being a staple power build that has been around for a while.
4 Doesnt matter, amulet that gives 2k condi damage doesnt exist, condi amulets give same survivability as power amulets, if you want carrion level survivability, use avatar as power build. Everyone uses maruder/demo/berserker cuz they can afford to give up survivability for damage, due to traits or having different playstyle, condi is more limited.
5 No, the difference is that power sigils give you power damage, condi give you DURATION, which not always gives you damage ( which is a criteria in itself ) but also they work on 1 condition only, while doing nothing for all the others ( which is also a criteria in itself ). For example, my build that deals 50-70% of its damage with bleed, wont use bleed duration sigil, as they do nothing, nobody is going to keep the bleed for kittening 15s.
6 Depends on the build, I played around with Csoulbeast that only had healing skill as condi cleanse, in general power builds can afford to take less, since they dont have to stick around as long.
7 There is no such thing as one stat damage, amulet that gives only condi damage does not exist, im FORCED to take power + condi or crit chance + condi, which means AT LEAST 2 stats.  Power builds can do exactly the same thing by taking avatar amulet

You just made general points that can apply to all builds, not just condi or power, tell me nades holo is not succesfull at range? tell me its not primary aoe build, tell me it doesnt apply condis, or power renegade, long range, big aoe, low cd, bunch of everything. It all applies.

We look at what builds are successful qt condi versus power and it is easy to see you are sputtering nonsense, and trying to make them equivalent.

 

The two are hardly the same in anything.

 

The most successful power builds are generally not in my list for condi.

 

 

[Crab Fear.1624]

Condi is always dot and run, and power is in your face.

 

Condi is harder to discern the damaging most skills.

 

You know about what to avoid power.

 

Stealth can hide this, but that is also for condi as well.

 

A few classes got very effective condi, and many classes don't have good condi builds.

 

But the good condi builds are always ridiculously oppressive.

 

2 dodge mirage was omegafook.

 

Old school scourge was oompa loompa 

 

C rev for a moment

 

R word condi thief

 

Fire Weaver

 

Fire Firebrand (burn brand)

 

Just to name a few.

 

 

 

 

[Genesis.5169]

40 minutes ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

Condi is always dot and run, and power is in your face.

 

Condi is harder to discern the damaging most skills.

 

You know about what to avoid power.

 

Stealth can hide this, but that is also for condi as well.

 

A few classes got very effective condi, and many classes don't have good condi builds.

 

But the good condi builds are always ridiculously oppressive.

 

2 dodge mirage was omegafook.

 

Old school scourge was oompa loompa 

 

C rev for a moment

 

R word condi thief

 

Fire Weaver

 

Fire Firebrand (burn brand)

 

Just to name a few.

 

 

 

 

 

Thief ranger dh would like to have words and mesmer.

Actually 4 out of 5 of my classes are power classes that need to kite and are power.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Genesis.5169

[vilesoldier.9826]

1 hour ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

Condi is always dot and run, and power is in your face.

Can more people start believing this? Makes my job a lot easier 😁

[Leonidrex.5649]

1 hour ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

We look at what builds are successful qt condi versus power and it is easy to see you are sputtering nonsense, and trying to make them equivalent.

 

The two are hardly the same in anything.

 

The most successful power builds are generally not in my list for condi.

 

 

wut
main power builds RN
prot holo, nade holo, power herald, power renegade, d/p thief, power scourge, power core ranger, reaper
Most of the kitten applies to all of these builds, with the only D/P thief being different as it has a very different role.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Leonidrex.5649

[Dadnir.5038]

4 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

This topic has been brought up countless times. Condis are rarely op, but they have always been spammy and annoying.

 

The vast majority of the skills that apply conditions also have a power component, which make power builds just as spammy as condition builds. There is no difference in spammability between power and condi, the only difference is that people would rather die cleanly than by bleeding to death in competitive mode (it quicken the process down/rally).

[Zawn.9647]

On 7/30/2021 at 12:30 PM, flog.3485 said:

Here is a secret, nobody really likes condi builds (or rather healthpool degen builds) in MMOs. It is not a case exclusive to guild wars 2, although in other games with a more traditional approach, you can just blame the healer for not removing conditions and healing through it.
 

 

other games have a thing called "over time" on the "conditions"
GW2 is the only game where a build can burst you with a damage that should have been over time... but the GW2 "over time" means "over 5 seconds" 🙂

[Zyreva.1078]

21 hours ago, DoomNexus.5324 said:

I've just noticed that I deal around 3k condi damage per tick with my all power build.. Just saying. You don't need to play with hybrid or condi stats to do kitten all damage with conditions.

Can you post the build you are talking about?

Yes, technically it is possible, but realistic in an actual fight with a somewhat viable build against at least semi decent opponents. Doubt.

 

12 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

My 2 reasons why hate condition:

- You don't know if the dmg Conditions you have on your bar are dangerous or not until after the first tick. Which can already be to late in some cases. 

 

That 10 Stacks of burning could just be from power classes and therefore can be ignored or maybe it is from a condi build and blow you up next second.

Pretty much all builds can be identified within a few seconds after combat start or even prior, based on weapons used and symbols on your opponent's bar that can hint at certain skills and traits slotted. Knowledge about various builds is key to countering them. Especially in sPvP where builds won't change after the start of the match, you should be able to figure out very quickly what you are facing - and then play the rest of the match accordingly. And this applies to power and condi builds equally. Gotta figure out beforehand if that tempest on point is support or glass dps, before you deside whether you want to sit in his air overload, right?

Knowledge also allows you to counter condis without constanty looking at your condi bar, simply based on what skills are hitting you. After all condis don't appear out of nowhere.Tanked point blank poison volley and stalkers strike from a condi slb - you shouldn't have to look at your bar to know you want to get rid of that poison asap. Got hit by dagger 5 from a valk/marks core ranger - you don't have to worry about those bleeds.

 

7 hours ago, Taku.2015 said:

Conditions are inherently unfun to play against. A big powerful attack will always be more interesting to play against, simply because usually the animation and everything will tell you exactly what is happening.

imo this is a huge clarity thing.

There is no general difference between condi and power skills when it comes to animations. There are well and not so well telegraphed skills for both. Sometimes you even have to look out for exactly the same skills.

It can be more difficult to learn animations of condi builds, because the dmg does not happen immediately and so the connection between big dmg and animation can be harder to realize. But ultimatively it is still a 2lp issue and the best way to learn is probably to play the builds that provide troubles.

 

2 hours ago, Cynz.9437 said:

 

I would add rather hard to read animations or "spammable" nature of condi application in some cases (just AA) which can make it frustrating experience. Say if zerker warrior runs to me and uses their hard hitting spells, i usually can see them well and know if i don't dodge/negate it somehow i might die. A lot of condi spells are either somehow passive, auras, applied via AA, have little animation, AoE and similar. No matter what you dodge, you probably will end up with whole array of condis anyway. I am not saying that condi builds shouldn't exist (i think they keep bunkers in check to extend) but i can see where the so called "hate" comes from.

That's for the most part not true and just confirms what i said above - main issue with condis is lack of knowledge. Yes, condis can be applied via auras, aoe or autoattacks (passively? not sure about that), but guess what - the exact same applies to power dmg.

 

There could be an argument made for spammability - it is kinda a necessity for viable condi builds (how many of those are there even?) due to how op and common cleansing is - but power builds can be just as "spammy".

 

[Leonidrex.5649]

51 minutes ago, Zawn.9647 said:

other games have a thing called "over time" on the "conditions"
GW2 is the only game where a build can burst you with a damage that should have been over time... but the GW2 "over time" means "over 5 seconds" 🙂

5 seconds is extremely long time in combat, power bursts in 1,5s. condi bursts in 5s. which is a massive difference.
For some reason people in GW2 think that conditions should take kittening 20s to kill you, even if you just face-tank everything.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

7 hours ago, Genesis.5169 said:

Just a reminder, i'm playing power, everyone is playing power too.

 

And the people's response.?

Conditions are bad and overpowered.

 

 

Just because we currently have a power meta doesn't mean condition builds don't currently exist that give people a hard time, or that they have magically forgotten the condi meta overperforming condi builds in the meta we had a short while ago. They could easily just have a chip on their shoulder from the years of getting blown up by condi mirage, condi thief, condi scourge, condi revenant, condi weaver (which was particularly meme since its build did crippling amounts of burn just for standing near someone), and condi guard while the people slapping their keyboards to play those builds scream "LeRn 2 PlaY LoL" , and don't want that back anytime soon.

 

Something not currently being in the meta doesn't mean it deserves to be in the meta as it was previously, or that your argument has weight because people still have an issue with something despite it not being in the meta. 

 

That argument is separate from whether condition oriented builds can be implemented in a fair and engaging way. I would advise you argue the latter instead of just being upset people have an issue with conditions. The answer to that will be "yes. 🧔" as long as people's frame of reference for condi builds was everything they  had to fight between HoT and this iteration of the meta. 

 

Condi builds -should- exist, but not the ones you're thinking of.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Genesis.5169]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

Just because we currently have a power meta doesn't mean condition builds don't currently exist that give people a hard time, or that they have magically forgotten the condi meta we had a short while ago. They could easily just have a chip on their shoulder from the years of getting blown up by condi mirage, condi thief, condi scourge, condi revenant, condi weaver (which was particularly meme since its build did crippling amounts of burn just for standing near someone), and condi guard while the people slapping their keyboards to play those builds scream "LeRn 2 PlaY LoL" , and don't want that back anytime soon.

 

Something not currently being in the meta doesn't mean it deserves to be in the meta as it was previously, or that your argument has weight because people still have an issue with something despite it not being in the meta. 

 

That argument is separate from whether condition oriented builds can be implemented in a fair and engaging way. I would advise you argue the latter instead of just being upset people have an issue with conditions. The answer to that will be "yes. 🧔" as long as people's frame of reference for condi builds was everything they  had to fight between HoT and this iteration of the meta. 

 

Condi builds -should- exist, but not the ones you're thinking of.

 

There has never ever been a condition meta in Spvp in the eight years i've been in spvp. There have been strong conidition classes within a greater power meta but there has been no condition meta in spvp.

 

There have been condition bombing meta's in WvW and WvW adapted and made cleansing blobs that blast light fields you and people like you are creating a history that never ever existed.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Genesis.5169
Typos.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

43 minutes ago, Genesis.5169 said:

 

There has never ever been a condition meta in Spvp in the eight years i've been in spvp. There have been strong conidition classes within a greater power meta but there been no condition meta in spvp.

 

There have been condition bombing meta's in WvW and WvW adapted and made cleansing blobs that blast light fields you and people like you are creating a history that never ever existed.

 

You're right. I made a minor error in how I described it.

 

Edited to read "overperforming condition builds in the meta." 

 

That in no way alters my point.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Crab Fear.1624]

8 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

wut
main power builds RN
prot holo, nade holo, power herald, power renegade, d/p thief, power scourge, power core ranger, reaper
Most of the kitten applies to all of these builds, with the only D/P thief being different as it has a very different role.

main? lol

 

all I see is scourge and guard for 60-80% of the team comps.

 

They are power, or at least some are, but it is AOE and tanky, another thing the community seems to hate.

 

a few others peppered here and there by die hard mains isn't really showing what really goes on in the spvp

 

 

[Crab Fear.1624]

9 hours ago, Genesis.5169 said:

 

Thief ranger dh would like to have words and mesmer.

Actually 4 out of 5 of my classes are power classes that need to kite and are power.

You mean kite out of the scourge and guard aoe?

 

That's really everyone's problem right now, and I still believe scourge is 80% of what is wrong with SPVP right now.

 

Even if it is power, it has collateral yet still respectable condition application to note as well.

[Cynz.9437]

14 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

 

That's for the most part not true and just confirms what i said above - main issue with condis is lack of knowledge. Yes, condis can be applied via auras, aoe or autoattacks (passively? not sure about that), but guess what - the exact same applies to power dmg.

 

There could be an argument made for spammability - it is kinda a necessity for viable condi builds (how many of those are there even?) due to how op and common cleansing is - but power builds can be just as "spammy".

 

 

And which is not true? In the next sentences you literary just confirm what i said. My point is that condi builds have less visibility and impact readability than powerbuilds. That can be frustrating for the players hence why i think there is so much "hate" for condis. Have you ever wondered why there is so much cleansing in game? Ever heard of powercreep? You know what guard players said when players complained about getting bursted by burning condi? Bring cleanse. When i play my thief the first thing i have to think, will i get cleanse from team, how much do i have to invest in cleanse. I can't invest in offense or any other defense before i have few cleanses. That is fact. That wasn't like this before whole powercreep crap started with expansions.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Cynz.9437

[Arheundel.6451]

14 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

5 seconds is extremely long time in combat, power bursts in 1,5s. condi bursts in 5s. which is a massive difference.
For some reason people in GW2 think that conditions should take kittening 20s to kill you, even if you just face-tank everything.

Let's try this other approach and see if you get it.....

People hate condi builds because 90% of them are PBAoE spammers, the only builds people ever complained about are always the same: Mesmer and Necromancer , both apply condis with PBAoE on skills/utilities with very low CD, nobody can deny that PBAoE gameplay is far less skill intensive that single target gameplay requiring LoS and more.

 

If condi skills would be linked to reflectable single target skills...there would be almost no complaint, basically the main issue people have with condis in GW2 is the braindead specs behind it.

 

 

[Leonidrex.5649]

3 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Let's try this other approach and see if you get it.....

People hate condi builds because 90% of them are PBAoE spammers, the only builds people ever complained about are always the same: Mesmer and Necromancer , both apply condis with PBAoE on skills/utilities with very low CD, nobody can deny that PBAoE gameplay is far less skill intensive that single target gameplay requiring LoS and more.

 

If condi skills would be linked to reflectable single target skills...there would be almost no complaint, basically the main issue people have with condis in GW2 is the braindead specs behind it.

 

 

Except all the power builds have the same things the " braindead condi " builds do.
With pulsing aoe, instant damage, Ignoring LoS. You think thief or rev give a kitten about LoS? they can port through walls on low cd.
There is a reason why everyone and their mother always plays power.
The reason why people complain about condi is because most of them are just kittening stupid, and unless they get hit and instantly lose chunk of their HP it doesnt register in their brains that they actually got hit.

[Zyreva.1078]

8 hours ago, Cynz.9437 said:

 

And which is not true? [...]

The part that implies the "issues" you mentioned are something condi specific.

[DoomNexus.5324]

On 8/2/2021 at 12:55 PM, Genesis.5169 said:

Just a reminder, i'm playing power, everyone is playing power too.

Elementalist - Gods of PvP
Mesmer - Gods of PvP
Necromancer - Gods of PvP
Thief - Gods of PvP
Guardian - Gods of PvP

Literally more than half of the classes have a condi/hybrid meta build. Stop spreading lies.. 

[Genesis.5169]

On 8/3/2021 at 3:45 PM, DoomNexus.5324 said:

Elementalist - Gods of PvP
Mesmer - Gods of PvP
Necromancer - Gods of PvP
Thief - Gods of PvP
Guardian - Gods of PvP

Literally more than half of the classes have a condi/hybrid meta build. Stop spreading lies.. 

 

What is this supposed to prove?

That a website posted this most viable condition build on there without notating if it superior to power or not or if its even good or just the best working condition build available?

 

Please lemme know what you intended by posting this?

 

Btw as an former mesmer and current thief player and guardian player.

Power is superior for all those classes.

 

As for Necro We already know avatar is the best for necro.

Seriously you better back this up because this is just misinformation right here.

Please say these are comparable to power LMAO so everyone can tell you your wrong.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Genesis.5169

[Leonidrex.5649]

On 8/3/2021 at 8:45 PM, DoomNexus.5324 said:

Elementalist - Gods of PvP
Mesmer - Gods of PvP
Necromancer - Gods of PvP
Thief - Gods of PvP
Guardian - Gods of PvP

Literally more than half of the classes have a condi/hybrid meta build. Stop spreading lies.. 

BUILDS NOT UP TO DATE
right there.
The site was not updated for so kittening long it still has burn DH as a "meta" build
So its at least 5 months out of date, most likely more.
Meta is 5 power builds as it always was, with MAYBE 1 condi build on side-node, if weaver happens to be strong in the meta.

 

[Crab Fear.1624]

7 minutes ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

BUILDS NOT UP TO DATE
right there.
The site was not updated for so kittening long it still has burn DH as a "meta" build
So its at least 5 months out of date, most likely more.
Meta is 5 power builds as it always was, with MAYBE 1 condi build on side-node, if weaver happens to be strong in the meta.

 

Lol, metabattle ain't up to date either amigo.

 

And some the known problems have been curated out lol.

 

This is sad.

[CroTiger.7819]

Condis are most broken on power builds at moment like scourge because without any investment they bring weaknes blind and corupt boons into condis which is much more broken than any real condi dmg build. Problem is half of condis which are not damage have same value on power builds and condi build without any investment which atm make power builds broken while condi dmg builds are rly bad because current meta with teamfight make them uselles and thats another problem with condis. 

There was alot of broken condi dmg builds before because of bad design across specs but right now condi dmg builds are underperforming because core design of condis is not working and is very outdated. I would say its better to have condi build have expertise in amulet rather than condi dmg because this way power builds take most use of them because non dmg condis are huge value while having power dmg is just straight up better because your dmg can t be cleansed. Please stop complain about condis until u play them above plat lvl and see how hard it is to make it work. Condi dmg and condis in general are 2 different things and right now power scourge is just example that you don t need condi dmg to be opressive with condis meanwhile playing condi dmg puts you in risk of being 0 dmg or even get them transfered back which is rly bad design in its core.