Ranger Solo Roaming WvW Build

[Arheundel.6451]

3 hours ago, bigo.9037 said:

When was the last time you met a boonbeast in wvw playing dolyak protect me? That setup is so incredibly stupid and requires 0 skill to play and win a 1v1 with. If by excel in 1v1 you mean turning your brain off while chipping your opponents health down then i want nothing to do with it. I think a lot of ppl will agree sustain based metas and builds + boons = bad time and unbalanced gameplay vs someone who doesn’t invest their life savings into getting 50% boon duration and 2800+ armor.

I meet very few boonbeast with that set up, very tanky indeed and it can require multiple good players to beat it but..at the same time I meet more braindead boon scrapper/holo with nike superspeed build farting grenades while sprinting away from you with the back towards you....or immortal signet/condi core necros, condi heralds, trailblazer mirage.

 

I have nothing to prove to anybody, I play for my own enjoyment and that means I am not about to go and start an uphill battle for the sake of few likes from random people over the internet, no offense to you ofc.

 

I want a fair fight period! If I fight a braindead build...I will use a braindead build against them ..I am not about to use some high risk build build against those kitten.

 

I am with you about kitten builds but if you want the game to go the "skilled way" then you need to remove all kitten build...not just one of them! So yeah for as long as kitten builds like prot holo/scrapper nike grenade launcher BS and similar builds exist in GW2...I will advocate for builds like boonbeast

[bigo.9037]

3 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

I meet very few boonbeast with that set up, very tanky indeed and it can require multiple good players to beat it but..at the same time I meet more braindead boon scrapper/holo with nike superspeed build farting grenades while sprinting away from you with the back towards you....or immortal signet/condi core necros, condi heralds, trailblazer mirage.

 

I have nothing to prove to anybody, I play for my own enjoyment and that means I am not about to go and start an uphill battle for the sake of few likes from random people over the internet, no offense to you ofc.

 

I want a fair fight period! If I fight a braindead build...I will use a braindead build against them ..I am not about to use some high risk build build against those kitten.

 

I am with you about kitten builds but if you want the game to go the "skilled way" then you need to remove all kitten build...not just one of them! So yeah for as long as kitten builds like prot holo/scrapper nike grenade launcher BS and similar builds exist in GW2...I will advocate for builds like boonbeast

Yes, obviously I am for removing those builds as well lol. I’m just saying we need to acknowledge that the skill (dolyak) is busted and does too many things at once and in some ways is the icing on the cake that makes boonbeast so disgusting, let alone regular ws bm slb builds that have high boon uptime and use it.
 

i will say this tho: I would be ok with anet nerfing slb first so they can see how busted holo/scrapper is and then nerfing it after the fact. I find more enjoyment in playing a weaker spec and losing occasionally than playing braindead boons. As long as the nerfs come for engi and SA dp too ofc. 

Edited August 18, 2021 by bigo.9037

[anduriell.6280]

13 hours ago, bigo.9037 said:

Yes, obviously I am for removing those builds as well lol. I’m just saying we need to acknowledge that the skill (dolyak) is busted and does too many things at once and in some ways is the icing on the cake that makes boonbeast so disgusting, let alone regular ws bm slb builds that have high boon uptime and use it.
 

i will say this tho: I would be ok with anet nerfing slb first so they can see how busted holo/scrapper is and then nerfing it after the fact. I find more enjoyment in playing a weaker spec and losing occasionally than playing braindead boons. As long as the nerfs come for engi and SA dp too ofc. 

And there we go again asking for nerfs for no good reason. 

"Boonbeast" does not exists anymore and from very long time ago. The build you are all talking about is a normal tanky build with a ~60% coverage of boon uptime partially thanks due to the 4 stats set. From the nerf to WHaO CD there is no way the boon uptime can be maintained. 

 

That commanders set build without the Axe Mainhand it would be a wet noodle, Axe is the only culprit that build can do so much damage. 

 

As i said before in another thread, remove might generation from Axe Mainhand and add an stack of bleeding instead. That will fix the build and make the weapon to work better. It is true GS can deal damage but without the permanent 12 stacks of might from the Axe Mainhand the weapon would not do such damage. 

As additional QoL Winter's bite could benefit from a different and more clear projectile so it is easier to see. But that is all what the build needs to be balanced. 

 

Dagger main hand may benefit from that might generation thou. 

 

[bigo.9037]

On 8/19/2021 at 3:48 AM, anduriell.6280 said:

And there we go again asking for nerfs for no good reason. 

"Boonbeast" does not exists anymore and from very long time ago. The build you are all talking about is a normal tanky build with a ~60% coverage of boon uptime partially thanks due to the 4 stats set. From the nerf to WHaO CD there is no way the boon uptime can be maintained. 

 

That commanders set build without the Axe Mainhand it would be a wet noodle, Axe is the only culprit that build can do so much damage. 

 

As i said before in another thread, remove might generation from Axe Mainhand and add an stack of bleeding instead. That will fix the build and make the weapon to work better. It is true GS can deal damage but without the permanent 12 stacks of might from the Axe Mainhand the weapon would not do such damage. 

As additional QoL Winter's bite could benefit from a different and more clear projectile so it is easier to see. But that is all what the build needs to be balanced. 

 

Dagger main hand may benefit from that might generation thou. 

 

Go play wvw and tell me boonbeast doesn’t work anymore lmao. 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Boonbeast definitely works; I don't agree with pre-nerfing it to show how powerful other specs are though.  

 

There's a reason ranger hasn't been featured in patches for almost the past year outside of getting unblockable converted to daze on WH...the class is reasonably balanced at this point. 

 

Things like Dolyak are actually in-line with how things always have been, you just aren't glowing red like RaO back in the day.  Outside of a few stacks of stability and some damage reduction, Dolyak doesn't do anything special; I never have understood why people want to nerf it. 

 

For weapons, I never have understood the fascination with LB when the forums are ripping virtuoso apart for being ranged because of all the blocks; and I don't understand the hate towards MH axe when it's slow and prone to glancing, so you need to invest heavily into quickness and boons to use it properly.  The other weapons are pretty much either weak (dagger, sword, etc.) or balanced but boring (greatsword).  

[Abyssisis.3971]

I’ve been playing full celestial boon beast for the last 2 days to change it up for my usual pew pew or condi soulbeast set up. It’s pretty fun, especially the outnumbered fights that I’ve won using it without too much trouble.

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POAFcEG7TZEsIWI7hZiH9157cAFA-z1IY14/MyUK0rKQjrRVA-w

 

Im sure there can be improvements made to it, but I’m enjoying the build so far.

 

[Arheundel.6451]

6 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Boonbeast definitely works; I don't agree with pre-nerfing it to show how powerful other specs are though.  

 

There's a reason ranger hasn't been featured in patches for almost the past year outside of getting unblockable converted to daze on WH...the class is reasonably balanced at this point. 

 

Things like Dolyak are actually in-line with how things always have been, you just aren't glowing red like RaO back in the day.  Outside of a few stacks of stability and some damage reduction, Dolyak doesn't do anything special; I never have understood why people want to nerf it. 

 

For weapons, I never have understood the fascination with LB when the forums are ripping virtuoso apart for being ranged because of all the blocks; and I don't understand the hate towards MH axe when it's slow and prone to glancing, so you need to invest heavily into quickness and boons to use it properly.  The other weapons are pretty much either weak (dagger, sword, etc.) or balanced but boring (greatsword).  

MH axe is extremely versatile and can spell troubles for all sort of builds when used on a celestial build...hence the hate I guess, MH axe is without doubt the best mh weapon ranger has atm where GS is the best 2 hand. The LB used to be good but now..outside the pewpew meme oneshot, it's useless as far as PvP/WvW goes.

 

Realistically speaking the boonbeast and variations are the only thing keeping ranger playable and enjoyable in WvW, everything else is niche use where the boonbeast is more generalist and suitable for group brawls.

 

I honestly don't get the hate dolyak's stance gets...there are similar and stronger utilities/traits on all other professions

[nativity.3057]

On 8/13/2021 at 5:05 PM, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Not sure how Dolyak is even out of line with all the other defenses classes get.  We have engi 'mini me' that's immune to everything, thieves with 'spin to win' that's immune to everything, daredevils with a million evades, spellbreakers with infinite disengage skills, guardians with block and aegis for days...

 

Dolyak is remove three movement imparing condis, give some stability and some damage reduction.  Against boon strip or heavy pressure the stab is meaningless, and damage reduction only does so much.  People that pop it just to YOLO away are better off with like lightning reflexes and stone signet, because you can get all the removal and everything that way anyway.  

 

 

 

How did this post get a like?

The only reasonable comparison was to Engi's Elixir S. Which in this case it is a single button press for similar effects. Engis have stronger damage reduction, but cannot cap or cast skills, while Rangers have lower reduction, but isn't locked out of using skills. 

 

Then compares Dolyak Stance to Thief's Dagger Storm, which is an Elite skill, says it's okay that Dolyak Stance is equal to Dagger Storm.

Then says "other classes have other skills for defense", forgetting the fact that those other skills require multiple key inputs, unlike the single panic button Dolyak Stance can be. 

Also says "Stone + Lightning" is a better option in certain scenarios, when that's TWO utility skills replacing ONE. 


Let's see, what's even more hilarious in the post:

• "Removing three movement impairing condis" is so significant in the current meta of immob/chill spam. 
• "Gives some stability"; yes 6 stacks is "some", most classes struggle to even have 2 stacks, and only two utility skills in the entire game gives more stab in a single press (Armor of Earth and Dolyak Signet)
• "Some damage reduction", as if having both protection and resolution-esque effects on one skill isn't a big deal.
• "Against heavy pressure or boon strip", aka fighting severely outnumbered, Dolyak Stance is weak. 🤡

 

 

There are a lot of really strong skills in the game, Dolyak Stance is one of them. Soulbeast is already one of the better WvW roaming specs, and Dolyak Stance is a reason why. Not to mention you can trait Dolyak Stance to be even stronger.

Edited August 23, 2021 by nativity.3057

[Gotejjeken.1267]

1 hour ago, nativity.3057 said:

 

How did this post get a like?

The only reasonable comparison was to Engi's Elixir S. Which in this case it is a single button press for similar effects. Engis have stronger damage reduction, but cannot cap or cast skills, while Rangers have lower reduction, but isn't locked out of using skills. 

 

Then compares Dolyak Stance to Thief's Dagger Storm, which is an Elite skill, says it's okay that Dolyak Stance is equal to Dagger Storm.

Then says "other classes have other skills for defense", forgetting the fact that those other skills require multiple key inputs, unlike the single panic button Dolyak Stance can be. 

Also says "Stone + Lightning" is a better option in certain scenarios, when that's TWO utility skills replacing ONE. 


Let's see, what's even more hilarious in the post:

• "Removing three movement impairing condis" is so significant in the current meta of immob/chill spam. 
• "Gives some stability"; yes 6 stacks is "some", most classes struggle to even have 2 stacks, and only two utility skills in the entire game gives more stab in a single press (Armor of Earth and Dolyak Signet)
• "Some damage reduction", as if having both protection and resolution-esque effects on one skill isn't a big deal.
• "Against heavy pressure or boon strip", aka fighting severely outnumbered, Dolyak Stance is weak. 🤡

 

 

There are a lot of really strong skills in the game, Dolyak Stance is one of them. Soulbeast is already one of the better WvW roaming specs, and Dolyak Stance is a reason why. Not to mention you can trait Dolyak Stance to be even stronger.

 

You can cut the hyperbole any time. 

 

Firstly, for 'one of the stronger roaming specs' I don't encounter too many SB's when roaming at the top of T1.  Encounter far more necros, mesmers, engi's, etc.  If there ARE SB's present they are almost always specc'd to run away and a vast majority of the time are +1 or +2, never alone.  

 

Dolyak, quite simply, can be ignored.  I can make a boon build right now without Dolyak and be just as tanky as with it.  I've already given the example of 'two skills replacing one' because those two skills allow you to activate different things at different times AND one of them clears two condi's.  I mean, the only difference between traited LR and Dolyak is some damage reduction and stab...but you are missing the evade, vigor, fury, and auto-kiting / backward roll 🙂.

 

Additionally, why would I care about one skill for 'good roaming' when I can roll Druid and never die? That's 13 condis cleared, area daze / healing, and stealth, practically every 10 seconds.  You can also throw in SoTP for the stability that you think is so overpowered. 

 

Finally, heavy pressure and boon strip does not mean fighting outnumbered.  You need to run into more spellbreakers and reapers if you seriously think that.

 

Just face it, Doylak is a crutch.  It's balanced with everything else which is why they have left it alone for, what 4 years now?     

 

[nativity.3057]

1 hour ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

You can cut the hyperbole any time. 

 

Firstly, for 'one of the stronger roaming specs' I don't encounter too many SB's when roaming at the top of T1.  Encounter far more necros, mesmers, engi's, etc.  If there ARE SB's present they are almost always specc'd to run away and a vast majority of the time are +1 or +2, never alone.  

 

Dolyak, quite simply, can be ignored.  I can make a boon build right now without Dolyak and be just as tanky as with it.  I've already given the example of 'two skills replacing one' because those two skills allow you to activate different things at different times AND one of them clears two condi's.  I mean, the only difference between traited LR and Dolyak is some damage reduction and stab...but you are missing the evade, vigor, fury, and auto-kiting / backward roll 🙂.

 

Additionally, why would I care about one skill for 'good roaming' when I can roll Druid and never die? That's 13 condis cleared, area daze / healing, and stealth, practically every 10 seconds.  You can also throw in SoTP for the stability that you think is so overpowered. 

 

Finally, heavy pressure and boon strip does not mean fighting outnumbered.  You need to run into more spellbreakers and reapers if you seriously think that.

 

Just face it, Doylak is a crutch.  It's balanced with everything else which is why they have left it alone for, what 4 years now?     

 

 

What hyperbole? In your post you were comparing a single skill to the multiple options of other classes. If you want to compare defensive options, do it holistically. Because Dolyak Stance isn't the only defensive option, and the fact that it does so many things gives Soulbeasts more utility options. 
Again, you seem to be forgetting one major part of taking those two utility skills over Dolyak Stance, which is now you only have one free utility slot. You can activate two different skills in two different situations? Does slotting Dolyak Stance mean I only have 2 utility slots instead of 3? 

 

Don't know where you roam that you find more Necros/Mesmers than Rangers. Are you counting zerg builds as well?
You see a lot of Engis bc Engi is also a very good roamer, but that's a different discussion.

 

 

Imagine having a patch last year that removed a lot of access to stability and lowered strike damage, and then being someone who says "some damage reduction and stab" like those two things didn't just get indirectly buffed and are just "meh" things. 

 

 

Here you go again, saying "instead of Dolyak, I can just go SoTP", like those two are interchangeable, and that there isn't a difference between utility and elite skills.

Also, why are you talking about Druid? Do you only run Soulbeast for Dolyak Stance? Again with the unbalanced comparisons. How are you comparing the entire mechanics of Druid to a single Soulbeast utility?

 

Heavy CC isn't possible in a 1v1 if you aren't a potato. You can dodge CC skills you know? Spellbreaker (warriors as a whole) are limping on to the next patch in hopes of a buff. Reapers don't have an abundance of CC either. Most of their CC skills have huge tells; the class relies on chill spam, not CC spam. 

Boon strip? You do realize you cannot strip Dolyak Stance?

 

Dolyak Stance CD increased from 40s to 60s. Feb 25 2020. Sure, hasn't been touched in 4 years.

 

Edited August 23, 2021 by nativity.3057

[Gotejjeken.1267]

51 minutes ago, nativity.3057 said:

 

What hyperbole? In your post you were comparing a single skill to the multiple options of other classes. If you want to compare defensive options, do it holistically. Because Dolyak Stance isn't the only defensive option, and the fact that it does so many things gives Soulbeasts more utility options. 
Again, you seem to be forgetting one major part of taking those two utility skills over Dolyak Stance, which is now you only have one free utility slot. You can activate two different skills in two different situations? Does slotting Dolyak Stance mean I only have 2 utility slots instead of 3? 

 

Don't know where you roam that you find more Necros/Mesmers than Rangers. Are you counting zerg builds as well?
You see a lot of Engis bc Engi is also a very good roamer, but that's a different discussion.

 

 

Imagine having a patch last year that removed a lot of access to stability and lowered strike damage, and then being someone who says "some damage reduction and stab" like those two things didn't just get indirectly buffed and are just "meh" things. 

 

 

Here you go again, saying "instead of Dolyak, I can just go SoTP", like those two are interchangeable, and that there isn't a difference between utility and elite skills.

Also, why are you talking about Druid? Do you only run Soulbeast for Dolyak Stance? Again with the unbalanced comparisons. How are you comparing the entire mechanics of Druid to a single Soulbeast utility?

 

Heavy CC isn't possible in a 1v1 if you aren't a potato. You can dodge CC skills you know? Spellbreaker (warriors as a whole) are limping on to the next patch in hopes of a buff. Reapers don't have an abundance of CC either. Most of their CC skills have huge tells; the class relies on chill spam, not CC spam. 

Boon strip? You do realize you cannot strip Dolyak Stance?

 

Dolyak Stance CD increased from 40s to 60s. Feb 25 2020. Sure, hasn't been touched in 4 years.

 

 

Protection uptime for one is far more egregious than anything Dolyak provides; but please keep ignoring that in your quest to somehow prove Dolyak is OP.  

 

Also the link you provided is for PvP, I only play WvW so it wouldn't apply to anything I'm saying.  In fact, if you are coming at this from a PvP perspective you may want to state that--but complaining about soulbeast at all there is just laughable.  

 

In addition, yes, stances are the only reason to run soulbeast--it is inferior in every other way to a Druid while roaming.  

 

Also 'boon strip' applies to the stability boon not the stance lmao.  For the power of boonbeast has very little to do with Dolyak stance effects and everything to do with...you know...boons?

 

Really though, not sure we can have a productive discussion here with all the salt flowing from that end.  Next you'll be going on about 1800 range LB 'one-shots', pets being OP, etc. etc. just running the list of things that people who get wrecked by rangers think are OP when in fact most have ridiculously easy counters 🤣

 

[nativity.3057]

35 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

Protection uptime for one is far more egregious than anything Dolyak provides; but please keep ignoring that in your quest to somehow prove Dolyak is OP.  

 

Also the link you provided is for PvP, I only play WvW so it wouldn't apply to anything I'm saying.  In fact, if you are coming at this from a PvP perspective you may want to state that--but complaining about soulbeast at all there is just laughable.  

 

In addition, yes, stances are the only reason to run soulbeast--it is inferior in every other way to a Druid while roaming.  

 

Also 'boon strip' applies to the stability boon not the stance lmao.  For the power of boonbeast has very little to do with Dolyak stance effects and everything to do with...you know...boons?

 

Really though, not sure we can have a productive discussion here with all the salt flowing from that end.  Next you'll be going on about 1800 range LB 'one-shots', pets being OP, etc. etc. just running the list of things that people who get wrecked by rangers think are OP when in fact most have ridiculously easy counters 🤣

 

Looks like the patch notes is wrong, since it is 30s CD in WvW. Which begs the question, why would you NOT take a 30s cd stunbreak with all the extra benefits?

 

Oh sure, it's not like protection doesn't stack with Dolyak Stance. Wait, it does, now you get 67% strike damage reduction. Literally 2/3 of the enemy's damage is mitigated. 

 

"Stance is the only reason to run Soulbeast". Totally, like let's forget how Soulbeast synergizes well with other traits, has great % damage increase and % damage reduction, and scales well in WvW with having more stats than other classes in Beastmode. Oh, and you get Stance skills, which are great. 

 

I apologize, I made the assumption, after reading your posts, that you wouldn't know that Dolyak Stance is a unique effect and cannot be stripped. But then again, you're talking about stability being boonstripped, when literally any hard CC will do that, so going "oh SpB will strip" is just a headscratcher. 
Honestly your whole response is a headscratcher. No single SpB or Reaper is going to boonstrip you and cc chain you, that's what a zerg will do to you. How are you getting heavy CC pressured or boonstripped by SpB. Are you eating every dagger burst and Full Counter? Because that's how you get stripped. 

 

 

Kind of funny how bad your takes are. My original post was regarding your decision to compare Dolyak stance to both Lightning Reflexes and Signet of Stone. You said "two skills allow you to activate different things at different times", like what? Reread that sentence please, because you don't lose a utility slot for running Dolyak Stance. I can run Dolyak Stance with any other utility, and I have more options to make the build more versatile because there are more open slots.

Not to mention downplaying the extremely strong parts of Dolyak Stance. But then again, you seem to not have a clue. 

 

 

Edited August 23, 2021 by nativity.3057

[Gotejjeken.1267]

6 hours ago, nativity.3057 said:

Looks like the patch notes is wrong, since it is 30s CD in WvW. Which begs the question, why would you NOT take a 30s cd stunbreak with all the extra benefits?

 

Oh sure, it's not like protection doesn't stack with Dolyak Stance. Wait, it does, now you get 67% strike damage reduction. Literally 2/3 of the enemy's damage is mitigated. 

 

"Stance is the only reason to run Soulbeast". Totally, like let's forget how Soulbeast synergizes well with other traits, has great % damage increase and % damage reduction, and scales well in WvW with having more stats than other classes in Beastmode. Oh, and you get Stance skills, which are great. 

 

I apologize, I made the assumption, after reading your posts, that you wouldn't know that Dolyak Stance is a unique effect and cannot be stripped. But then again, you're talking about stability being boonstripped, when literally any hard CC will do that, so going "oh SpB will strip" is just a headscratcher. 
Honestly your whole response is a headscratcher. No single SpB or Reaper is going to boonstrip you and cc chain you, that's what a zerg will do to you. How are you getting heavy CC pressured or boonstripped by SpB. Are you eating every dagger burst and Full Counter? Because that's how you get stripped. 

 

 

Kind of funny how bad your takes are. My original post was regarding your decision to compare Dolyak stance to both Lightning Reflexes and Signet of Stone. You said "two skills allow you to activate different things at different times", like what? Reread that sentence please, because you don't lose a utility slot for running Dolyak Stance. I can run Dolyak Stance with any other utility, and I have more options to make the build more versatile because there are more open slots.

Not to mention downplaying the extremely strong parts of Dolyak Stance. But then again, you seem to not have a clue. 

 

 

 

I'm not even sure you roam at this point with the amount of times you mention zerg--seems more likely you may be used to running from them? Or maybe you roam against bad players? There are plenty of good warriors and reapers, not sure why you haven't encountered any of them yet.  

 

Anyway, since you are hung up on the LR + SoS point, you take two utilities because doing that way allows for a kiting component with condition removal and other boons (vigor / fury) without needing to blow damage immunity as well.  Because while you are hung up on the extra slot, most good SB's take either protect me or moa stance for that slot...because Dolyak isn't enough on its own.  

 

Basically, I downplay Dolyak stance because it's balanced--and we've proved that by you misreading patch notes from 1.5 years ago--but feel free to continue on.  

[nativity.3057]

9 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

I'm not even sure you roam at this point with the amount of times you mention zerg--seems more likely you may be used to running from them? Or maybe you roam against bad players? There are plenty of good warriors and reapers, not sure why you haven't encountered any of them yet.  

 

Anyway, since you are hung up on the LR + SoS point, you take two utilities because doing that way allows for a kiting component with condition removal and other boons (vigor / fury) without needing to blow damage immunity as well.  Because while you are hung up on the extra slot, most good SB's take either protect me or moa stance for that slot...because Dolyak isn't enough on its own.  

 

Basically, I downplay Dolyak stance because it's balanced--and we've proved that by you misreading patch notes from 1.5 years ago--but feel free to continue on.  

 

Your entire point is moot, because regardless of there being a handful of Spellbreakers and Reapers (I see Berserker and Core more than those other two builds), not a single one can heavily pressure you with CC or boonstrip. Which you keep alluding to, because apparently Dolyak Stance isn't enough to take these classes on for you. By the way, how are you having trouble with classes that Rangers handle with ease? 

 

"Anet didn't nerf it, so it's not OP". That is essentially your argument to its base form. Lmao, I can't stop laughing.

Not to mention it was nerfed in PvP. Somehow Soulbeasts escaping WvW nerfs makes it okay. It's balanced in PvP, overtuned in WvW. 

 

Nope, you don't get to change the goalposts. Your first post was comparing a single utility to multiple skills. You don't come in now and go, "well, you run another utility with it" because that was never your argument. You specifically said how LR + SoS is a better option because it gives you multiple skills to use, while comparing it to a single skill. Nope, no goal post changing allowed.

 

You still don't get why Dolyak Stance is so strong. It's either because you're blinded by class bias, or you simply don't know what's good in the game.

Dolyak Stance removes soft-CC. Everybody who plays PvP competently understands how crucial it is to have specific soft-CC cleanses because of how cleansing works and cover conditions. CC skills have animations, soft-CC applying skills have less clear animations, and are often more spammable. That's how strong soft-CC is, and you continuing to downplay soft-CC cleanse shows what you know.

Stability nerfs in Feb 2020 patch made every stack of Stability that more precious. "It's just some stability". Do you even play WvW?

Not to mention it gives a defensive buff to both condition and power damage, where other classes would have to slot 2 utility skills to get both. 

 

But sure, me reading it being nerfed in PvP is a compelling argument that it's balanced. Yikes. 

 

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by nativity.3057

[Gotejjeken.1267]

3 hours ago, nativity.3057 said:

 

Your entire point is moot, because regardless of there being a handful of Spellbreakers and Reapers (I see Berserker and Core more than those other two builds), not a single one can heavily pressure you with CC or boonstrip. Which you keep alluding to, because apparently Dolyak Stance isn't enough to take these classes on for you. By the way, how are you having trouble with classes that Rangers handle with ease? 

 

v"Anet didn't nerf it, so it's not OP". That is essentially your argument to its base form. Lmao, I can't stop laughing.

Not to mention it was nerfed in PvP. Somehow Soulbeasts escaping WvW nerfs makes it okay. It's balanced in PvP, overtuned in WvW. 

 

Nope, you don't get to change the goalposts. Your first post was comparing a single utility to multiple skills. You don't come in now and go, "well, you run another utility with it" because that was never your argument. You specifically said how LR + SoS is a better option because it gives you multiple skills to use, while comparing it to a single skill. Nope, no goal post changing allowed.

 

You still don't get why Dolyak Stance is so strong. It's either because you're blinded by class bias, or you simply don't know what's good in the game.

Dolyak Stance removes soft-CC. Everybody who plays PvP competently understands how crucial it is to have specific soft-CC cleanses because of how cleansing works and cover conditions. CC skills have animations, soft-CC applying skills have less clear animations, and are often more spammable. That's how strong soft-CC is, and you continuing to downplay soft-CC cleanse shows what you know.

Stability nerfs in Feb 2020 patch made every stack of Stability that more precious. "It's just some stability". Do you even play WvW?

Not to mention it gives a defensive buff to both condition and power damage, where other classes would have to slot 2 utility skills to get both. 

 

But sure, me reading it being nerfed in PvP is a compelling argument that it's balanced. Yikes. 

 

 

 

When you talk about 'orginal post' do you mean this:

 

"People that pop it just to YOLO away are better off with like lightning reflexes and stone signet, because you can get all the removal and everything that way anyway. "

 

I'm not sure how to explain that any better than, if you are just using Dolyak as a panic button you'd be better off taking those as LR is a much more effective panic button due to removing two condis and giving vigor.  You can then use stone signet to get your damage immunity as you run away.  Just 'pop dolyak and run' means you are going to get chased down and mauled by warclaw unless you run GS, bird, etc. to get even more nike ability.  

 

Anyway, none of that has anything to do with build flexibility or Dolyak replacing two skills with one lol.  Because it literally doesn't, as it doesn't provide full strike damage immunity, fury, vigor, or remove conditions...even when traited.

 

Also, I'm not understanding where stability is actually so precious in WvW outside ZvZ---1v1's or 2v2's doesn't matter all that much.  Can potentially turn a smallscale fight if you pop it and someone strips it / chain CC's but I hardly ever use it over just kiting / going into stealth.  

 

So really, you have to look at the context I'm speaking of.  Not PvE, not PvP, not ZvZ, not big WvW group content where boonshare is a thing...just smallscale roaming.  There I don't see Dolyak as anywhere near problematic or turning fights...especially since most people take oppressive superiority and don't have it traited.

 

I swear this forum needs post tags for different modes so we don't have this kind of confusion, as skills obviously work vastly different depending on where they are used.  

 

EDIT: And to your point about 'soft CC' there are a friggin' million things that remove that.  Cleansing sigils for one...followed by skills like unflinching fortitude, traits like evasive purity / WS GM removing 2 condis on practically every skill you use...etc. etc.  Not sure that's a hill you wanna die on.  

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by Gotejjeken.1267

[nativity.3057]

41 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

When you talk about 'orginal post' do you mean this:

 

"People that pop it just to YOLO away are better off with like lightning reflexes and stone signet, because you can get all the removal and everything that way anyway. "

 

I'm not sure how to explain that any better than, if you are just using Dolyak as a panic button you'd be better off taking those as LR is a much more effective panic button due to removing two condis and giving vigor.  You can then use stone signet to get your damage immunity as you run away.  Just 'pop dolyak and run' means you are going to get chased down and mauled by warclaw unless you run GS, bird, etc. to get even more nike ability.  

 

Anyway, none of that has anything to do with build flexibility or Dolyak replacing two skills with one lol.  Because it literally doesn't, as it doesn't provide full strike damage immunity, fury, vigor, or remove conditions...even when traited.

 

Also, I'm not understanding where stability is actually so precious in WvW outside ZvZ---1v1's or 2v2's doesn't matter all that much.  Can potentially turn a smallscale fight if you pop it and someone strips it / chain CC's but I hardly ever use it over just kiting / going into stealth.  

 

So really, you have to look at the context I'm speaking of.  Not PvE, not PvP, not ZvZ, not big WvW group content where boonshare is a thing...just smallscale roaming.  There I don't see Dolyak as anywhere near problematic or turning fights...especially since most people take oppressive superiority and don't have it traited.

 

I swear this forum needs post tags for different modes so we don't have this kind of confusion, as skills obviously work vastly different depending on where they are used.  

 

EDIT: And to your point about 'soft CC' there are a friggin' million things that remove that.  Cleansing sigils for one...followed by skills like unflinching fortitude, traits like evasive purity / WS GM removing 2 condis on practically every skill you use...etc. etc.  Not sure that's a hill you wanna die on.  

 

 

So you wasted two CDs, cleansed immob + 2 conditions, still take condition damage and can be CCed during your 3 secs of SoS "invuln". 

 

Guess what, you have no stab. Sure, pop your SoTP, but you just popped your elite for stab, and apparently for you, utility and elite skills are similar in tradeoffs.

 

Also, SoS is not as good as you think it is, since you keep thinking it's "damage immunity". It doesn't even break stun, so you have to use a different skill first. Like it's barely been in use since the duration/cd adjustment, and the only Rangers who seem to run it are running the passive option as well. You talk about Dolyak Stance being a noob trap? Signet of Stone is the biggest noob trap, and it got you. 

 

LR's vigor + evade is nice, but cleanses 2 condition traited (and the competing grandmaster traits are more condition resistance or more damage). You talk about "fury", but Moa gives fury without being traited, AND more damage reduction + condi reduction if traited.

 

Fact of the matter is, Moa + Dolyak > LR + SoS. You comparing both LR + SoS to a single skill in Dolyak was incorrect.

If this can't go through, then I can't continue this conversation because it's like we are playing completely different games. 

 

Stability isn't important? Sure, tell that to the classes who don't have such an easy and strong access to it. I'm guessing you've never been ganked by duo thieves running Basilisk, because it's common, and without stab you're dead. How are you gonna press SoS when you have no stab? They've already taken your singular stunbreak in LR. 

 

"I can just go to stealth". I'm sorry, I wasn't aware your Ranger has access to stealth and my Ranger doesn't. You get MORE with the utilities I'm talking about, and you keep saying "no thanks" to the extra benefits Anet giving to you for free.

 

Why would we need tags? Because we're still talking WvW here. 

 

Now I want to ask how you're in T1 and you've NEVER come across cloudlings squirreling to get you, zergs focusing and chasing you, or coordinated gankers who will abuse the weaknesses in your build?

 

1 hour ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

: And to your point about 'soft CC' there are a friggin' million things that remove that.  Cleansing sigils for one...followed by skills like unflinching fortitude

 

Cleansing sigils are, again, only available to your build? 

I thought you ran Druid? Anyways, Unflinching Fortitude is a Soulbeast skill, and requires you to slot in a Stout pet. That means no Smokescale. Maybe you meant the resistance one, bc bird does have it. But again, you still keep saying "NO" to having more ways to counter soft-CC. 

 

1 hour ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

followed by skills like unflinching fortitude, traits like evasive purity / WS GM removing 2 condis on practically every skill you use...etc. etc.  Not sure that's a hill you wanna die on.  

 

And again, does my Ranger not have access to the same traits you have? And now you're forced into Nature Magic, dropping the damage you get from Beastmastery, which scales INCREDIBLY well with Soulbeast. 

[Grand Marshal.4098]

What kind of agenda is trying to pass here? That ranger is not a decent roamer? That it cannot kite or something? Lmao at these lies...

 

Dolyak stance is far stronger than balanced stance on warrior could ever wish to be, that being warrior's best stance...

 

Doly stance + LB block after burst in melee while evading with smokescale, followed by a nice GS3 after that for safe kite..

 

It's mandatory on Memebeast, because that's it's strongest utility..

[Gotejjeken.1267]

4 hours ago, nativity.3057 said:

 

So you wasted two CDs, cleansed immob + 2 conditions, still take condition damage and can be CCed during your 3 secs of SoS "invuln". 

 

Guess what, you have no stab. Sure, pop your SoTP, but you just popped your elite for stab, and apparently for you, utility and elite skills are similar in tradeoffs.

 

Also, SoS is not as good as you think it is, since you keep thinking it's "damage immunity". It doesn't even break stun, so you have to use a different skill first. Like it's barely been in use since the duration/cd adjustment, and the only Rangers who seem to run it are running the passive option as well. You talk about Dolyak Stance being a noob trap? Signet of Stone is the biggest noob trap, and it got you. 

 

LR's vigor + evade is nice, but cleanses 2 condition traited (and the competing grandmaster traits are more condition resistance or more damage). You talk about "fury", but Moa gives fury without being traited, AND more damage reduction + condi reduction if traited.

 

Fact of the matter is, Moa + Dolyak > LR + SoS. You comparing both LR + SoS to a single skill in Dolyak was incorrect.

If this can't go through, then I can't continue this conversation because it's like we are playing completely different games. 

 

Stability isn't important? Sure, tell that to the classes who don't have such an easy and strong access to it. I'm guessing you've never been ganked by duo thieves running Basilisk, because it's common, and without stab you're dead. How are you gonna press SoS when you have no stab? They've already taken your singular stunbreak in LR. 

 

"I can just go to stealth". I'm sorry, I wasn't aware your Ranger has access to stealth and my Ranger doesn't. You get MORE with the utilities I'm talking about, and you keep saying "no thanks" to the extra benefits Anet giving to you for free.

 

Why would we need tags? Because we're still talking WvW here. 

 

Now I want to ask how you're in T1 and you've NEVER come across cloudlings squirreling to get you, zergs focusing and chasing you, or coordinated gankers who will abuse the weaknesses in your build?

 

 

Cleansing sigils are, again, only available to your build? 

I thought you ran Druid? Anyways, Unflinching Fortitude is a Soulbeast skill, and requires you to slot in a Stout pet. That means no Smokescale. Maybe you meant the resistance one, bc bird does have it. But again, you still keep saying "NO" to having more ways to counter soft-CC. 

 

 

And again, does my Ranger not have access to the same traits you have? And now you're forced into Nature Magic, dropping the damage you get from Beastmastery, which scales INCREDIBLY well with Soulbeast. 

 

I mean your ranger seems notepad at best but I digress...

 

Yes, I usually run Druid which I've already stated is far more of a problem for others than a soulbeast ever will be.  So no, cloudlings, zergs, 1v1's, 2v1's...none of it bothers me because unless focused (which only happens against guild groups) not going to be anywhere near going down.  

 

Anyway, it is possible to run BM/NM/SB you know? Taking a stout pet means taking Siamoth which means massive boon access...but forget that since we're literally pigeonholing here to make Dolyak stance seem even remotely necessary.  

 

I'm not saying Dolyak isn't useful, I'm saying it isn't OP and it isn't mandatory in the least.  Of course, these are the forums where people will complain about pet AI being OP so I am only here because you keep summoning me with replies 😂

Edited August 24, 2021 by Gotejjeken.1267

[nativity.3057]

2 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

I mean your ranger seems notepad at best but I digress...

 

Yes, I usually run Druid which I've already stated is far more of a problem for others than a soulbeast ever will be.  So no, cloudlings, zergs, 1v1's, 2v1's...none of it bothers me because unless focused (which only happens against guild groups) not going to be anywhere near going down.  

 

Anyway, it is possible to run BM/NM/SB you know? Taking a stout pet means taking Siamoth which means massive boon access...but forget that since we're literally pigeonholing here to make Dolyak stance seem even remotely necessary.  

 

I'm not saying Dolyak isn't useful, I'm saying it isn't OP and it isn't mandatory in the least.  Of course, these are the forums where people will complain about pet AI being OP so I am only here because you keep summoning me with replies 😂

 

???
If you run BM/NM/SB, what about WS, since you need that for LR condi cleanse. How can you argue for using WS with LR this entire time and then go "run this other build that doesn't have it".

 

Every time I respond, you keep digressing into different points. You talked about escaping with stealth, yet you bring up Siamoth. None of your points have continuity, and your argument no longer makes sense because you're grabbing different setups in response.

 

I keep responding because you keep posting bad takes. What I'm saying is Dolyak Stance is a better defensive option than LR and SoS, while you keep arguing that taking these (in comparison) subpar utilities is the better option. It's not. 

 

And why do you keep talking about pets. Where have I ever mentioned pets. 

[Abyssisis.3971]

You don’t need WIlderness knowledge for survival skill condi cleanse if you are running bear stance and have sigil of cleansing on both weapon sets.

 

LR removes immobilised as standard.

 

The only signet worth taking is SoR due to the break stun and passive healing, but only on soulbeast where you can kill you pet by taking your condi and merge to revive it. The other signets are a bit meh imo.

 

I personally take dolly stance over LR and SoS as celebeast needs it for stab and damage reduction. 

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2021 by Abyssisis.3971

[Trejgon.9367]

23 minutes ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

You don’t need WIlderness knowledge for survival skill condi cleanse if you are running bear stance and have sigil of cleansing on both weapon sets.

yeah, but Gote (I think, keep confusing who said what ^-^') argued that LR is better stunbreak because "it cleanses 2 condis and provides fury" and the removal of 2 condis and fury is WS GM trait, so him later on going on with how he doesn't even run WS, seems self-undermining to me as well.

[Abyssisis.3971]

52 minutes ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

yeah, but Gote (I think, keep confusing who said what ^-^') argued that LR is better stunbreak because "it cleanses 2 condis and provides fury" and the removal of 2 condis and fury is WS GM trait, so him later on going on with how he doesn't even run WS, seems self-undermining to me as well.

I haven’t been Paying attention to what they have been posting, just read the last comment and added my 2 cents to it.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

16 hours ago, nativity.3057 said:

And why do you keep talking about pets. Where have I ever mentioned pets. 

 

23 hours ago, nativity.3057 said:

Anyways, Unflinching Fortitude is a Soulbeast skill, and requires you to slot in a Stout pet. That means no Smokescale. Maybe you meant the resistance one, bc bird does have it. But again, you still keep saying "NO" to having more ways to counter soft-CC. 

 

I mean if you can't follow what you are saying, how can I?

 

Anyway, this probably has gone on long enough as my original point was taken out of context to begin with, and devolved into this discussion.  

 

Bottom line is, yes you can take Dolyak (like was mentioned is good in cele SB setups) or you can take other utilities like LR if you run a WS build.  The point is, Doylak isn't needed in every setup and it isn't overpowered in the least as it is easily replaceable.

[nativity.3057]

19 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Of course, these are the forums where people will complain about pet AI being OP

Yeah, except you start talking about Druid stealth in Avatar mode yet we're talking about Soulbeast. How does Soulbeast run both Smokescale and Siamoth? And where in that do I say "Pets are OP". 

 

And in your original post, you said "Dolyak isn't OP bc of X reasons", yet your X reasons require more investment than just popping Dolyak.

 

This debate is continuing because you're refusing to agree Dolyak Stance is BiS utility for Soulbeasts and refusing to acknowledge the difference between using 2 utility skills and 1 utility skill. 

Edited August 25, 2021 by nativity.3057

[Gotejjeken.1267]

5 minutes ago, nativity.3057 said:

Yeah, except you start talking about Druid stealth in Avatar mode yet we're talking about Soulbeast. How does Soulbeast run both Smokescale and Siamoth? And where in that do I say "Pets are OP". 

 

And in your original post, you said "Dolyak isn't OP bc of X reasons", yet your X reasons require more investment than just popping Dolyak.

 

This debate is continuing because you're refusing to agree Dolyak Stance is BiS utility for Soulbeasts and refusing to acknowledge the difference between using 2 utility skills and 1 utility skill. 

 

Not everything I reference is in regards to you personally lol.  

 

Druid was brought up by me to dispel the notion the Dolyak is some OP condi clear because you can get better ones by not even playing soulbeast.  

 

Pets being OP goes back to the origins of the game where PvP forums in particular cried repeatedly until they were nerfed, despite pet AI being awful.

 

I also don't think Dolyak is best in slot because of reasons mentioned above (i.e. in short, wouldn't run in on a WS build because it's pretty redundant, etc.).  

 

Guess we just agree to disagree?