Willbender is OP

[Oslaf Beinir.5842]

Just now, Kanto.2485 said:

Sorry bro, the class has no access to reveal whatsoever so...

You are right.  
If you play wvw then better keep some Target Painters to throw at them. I have been stocking on them just to use as the first move on stealthy builds.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Target_Painter

[Mik.3401]

Alac guardian with high mobility is essentially the last thing left they couldn’t do. Meanwhile mesmer gets raw dps with no special effects, making it just another power mes which is just shooting blades instead of shattering instantly.

[AXLIB.8425]

3 hours ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

to be fair as far as I was able to follow all three of those especs are broken, and I expect them to not only get nerfed prior to release but I expect a number of nerfs incoming after release.

ah yes, virtuoso and its overlapping and useless trait line is definitely broken.

[Exile.8160]

13 minutes ago, AXLIB.8425 said:

ah yes, virtuoso and its overlapping and useless trait line is definitely broken.

I guess necro won the best e spec so far -_-

[AXLIB.8425]

Just now, Exile.8160 said:

I guess necro won the best e spec so far -_-

I mean, no kitten sherlock, they literally got a trait that is our old SOI, and a button that give every boons in the game, even old chao chrono did not do that.

[Sobx.1758]

3 hours ago, Ragnarox.9601 said:

we get mobility but traits are luckluster, no synergy with anything, and those grandmaster traits are .... i dont know...bad...swap heal with regen, or aegis with no death....its just not worth it.

Guardian's objectivity btw 😆

[Ragnar.4257]

8 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Guardian's objectivity btw 😆

Oh look, someone who doesn't know PvP/WvW exist.

[Sobx.1758]

1 minute ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

Oh look, someone who doesn't know PvP/WvW exist.

Riiiiight 🙃 

[Ragnar.4257]

3 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Riiiiight 🙃 

For PvP/WvW, those traits are objectively meh.

 

The virtues and utilities are useful, but not the traits. Swiftness and Resistance, that's it.

 

But hey, maybe instead of making snarky comments, why don't you say which trait you think is super-strong for PvP.

Edited August 14, 2021 by Ragnar.4257

[otto.5684]

I need to reread utilities and traits, but beside great mobility, this seems weaker than DH in pve. I did not see much damage multipliers on traits. Off hand swords seems to be more utility than damage. We lose on VoJ burns and SoJ bonus damage. In addition, it seems predominantly power using GS and Sword, which Is the exact same existing power build for core and DH. This is super redundant.

 

Once I test I will have a better idea. Initially, Seems underwhelming from PvE standpoint.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

5 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

For PvP/WvW, those traits are objectively meh.

 

The virtues and utilities are useful, but not the traits. Swiftness and Resistance, that's it.

 

But hey, maybe instead of making snarky comments, why don't you say which trait you think is super-strong for PvP.

I don't think you're looking at the larger picture which is taking into account Guardian's other specialization lines.

 

Radiance/Virtues/Willbender with Radiance 2/3/3, Virtues 2/1/3 and Willbender 1/1/2

Using Sword/Sword with Mace/Shield or Greatsword. Mace/Shield for added sustain, greatsword if you're just going ham on people and additional Resolution uptime.

 

Thats a traited Virtue of Justice CD of 10 1/4 seconds, 17 second Virtue of Resolve, 25 1/2 second Virtue of Courage. Each of which proc Justice is Blind (Light Aura + AoE Blind), which also procs Inspired Virtue, Virtue of Resolution, and Inspiring Virtue along with Lethal Tempo, reducing Virtue CDs more, and Virtue of Courage is a stunbreak with more stability. Any Resolution you get is also giving you 25% crit chance while it is active, Might every 1 second of Resolution and 10% damage.

 

In WvW (with Mara/Zerk gear) you're hitting a little over 80% crit chance with Resolution active (PvP as well with Marauder Amulet), more than that if you're attacking a burning foe, with 216% Critical Damage + all other % increases in damage from other procs from using your virtues.

 

So its not just one trait...its how Willbender works in general when factoring in other traits.

[Ragnar.4257]

14 minutes ago, KryTiKaL.3125 said:

I don't think you're looking at the larger picture which is taking into account Guardian's other specialization lines.

 

Radiance/Virtues/Willbender with Radiance 2/3/3, Virtues 2/1/3 and Willbender 1/1/2

Using Sword/Sword with Mace/Shield or Greatsword. Mace/Shield for added sustain, greatsword if you're just going ham on people and additional Resolution uptime.

 

Thats a traited Virtue of Justice CD of 10 1/4 seconds, 17 second Virtue of Resolve, 25 1/2 second Virtue of Courage. Each of which proc Justice is Blind (Light Aura + AoE Blind), which also procs Inspired Virtue, Virtue of Resolution, and Inspiring Virtue along with Lethal Tempo, reducing Virtue CDs more, and Virtue of Courage is a stunbreak with more stability. Any Resolution you get is also giving you 25% crit chance while it is active, Might every 1 second of Resolution and 10% damage.

 

In WvW (with Mara/Zerk gear) you're hitting a little over 80% crit chance with Resolution active (PvP as well with Marauder Amulet), more than that if you're attacking a burning foe, with 216% Critical Damage + all other % increases in damage from other procs from using your virtues.

 

So its not just one trait...its how Willbender works in general when factoring in other traits.

And how much of that is due to the WB *traits* and not to the virtues.

 

The point was on specifically the WB *traits*. Yes the virtues are cool. But that's not relevant to the point being discussed. The WB *traits* are adding very little here. 15% damage modifier, big whoop. It's not like basically every spec has one of those somewhere.

 

The virtues synergising with radiance/virtues is literally irrelevant to assessing how strong the WB *traits* are.

Edited August 14, 2021 by Ragnar.4257

[fran.8157]

17 minutes ago, otto.5684 said:

I need to reread utilities and traits, but beside great mobility, this seems weaker than DH in pve. I did not see much damage multipliers on traits. Off hand swords seems to be more utility than damage. We lose on VoJ burns and SoJ bonus damage. In addition, it seems predominantly power using GS and Sword, which Is the exact same existing power build for core and DH. This is super redundant.

 

Once I test I will have a better idea. Initially, Seems underwhelming from PvE standpoint.

Its doesn't need to better from dh. It's a different playstyle. Look for sole pve it's amazing you can go ham with concentration and alac . Or with hard solo content switch to kinda heal mode. And you see how it fits in wvw or pvp. The new espec doesn't need to be better it need to be different. And it is and it's not trash for sure it's pretty strong. DH is the burst power role, Willbender should not replace dh  

[KryTiKaL.3125]

4 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

And how much of that is due to the WB *traits* and not to the virtues.

 

The point was on specifically the WB *traits*. Yes the virtues are cool. But that's not relevant to the point being discussed. The WB *traits* are adding very little here. 15% damage modifier, big whoop. It's not like basically every spec has one of those somewhere.

 

The virtues synergising with radiance/virtues is literally irrelevant to assessing how strong the WB *traits* are.

...

"but that wasn't the point" is also not relevant to the overall point being made. Literally any one Specialization traitline, solo, in a vacuum are all crap or "meh". The entire point is how strong Willbender is likely going to be due in large part to how it is going to interact with the other Core Guardian Specialization lines.

 

I'd say a big benefit to running WB is going to be its virtue interaction with Guardian traits as a whole, especially the CD reduction trait, the slight increase in Concentration for longer boon durations (which can be paired with Durability or Fireworks in WvW), and Lethal Tempo procs from the Virtues themselves. Willbender is basically Radiant Guardian but now just embodied in an entire Elite Spec and with way more mobility + a "Full Counter" heal.

[Buran.3796]

  I'm glad about the mobility skills and trait, I', sure that will be fun to play in open world and small skirmishes at WvW/PvP and duels. What I'm not that sure is about the damage numbers: at release and compared to this Firebrand seemed way stronger, since passive burn pulses and large AoE symbols were a crucial part of the receipe.  I'm thinking mostly about competitive game modes since at PvE everything works.

[Sobx.1758]

59 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

For PvP/WvW, those traits are objectively meh.

 

The virtues and utilities are useful, but not the traits. Swiftness and Resistance, that's it.

 

But hey, maybe instead of making snarky comments, why don't you say which trait you think is super-strong for PvP.

Why does "a trait" need to be "super strong for pvp"? You're not playing a single trait, you're playing a class/build. What is even this weird take you're trying to have here?

[fran.8157]

19 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

And how much of that is due to the WB *traits* and not to the virtues.

 

The point was on specifically the WB *traits*. Yes the virtues are cool. But that's not relevant to the point being discussed. The WB *traits* are adding very little here. 15% damage modifier, big whoop. It's not like basically every spec has one of those somewhere.

WillBender role is not just dps he is a dueler. he have utility, stun break ton of mobility, How you guys don't see the bigger picture. If Willbender will be better then dh with burst dps why you need dh ?. Anet thought about that and made a dueler not a burst power guardian

Edited August 14, 2021 by fran.8157

[RisenHowl.2419]

This is going to be very broken for wvw, just wait lol

[Ragnar.4257]

2 minutes ago, KryTiKaL.3125 said:

...

"but that wasn't the point" is also not relevant to the overall point being made. Literally any one Specialization traitline, solo, in a vacuum are all crap or "meh". The entire point is how strong Willbender is likely going to be due in large part to how it is going to interact with the other Core Guardian Specialization lines.

 

I'd say a big benefit to running WB is going to be its virtue interaction with Guardian traits as a whole, especially the CD reduction trait, the slight increase in Concentration for longer boon durations (which can be paired with Durability or Fireworks in WvW), and Lethal Tempo procs from the Virtues themselves. Willbender is basically Radiant Guardian but now just embodied in an entire Elite Spec and with way more mobility + a "Full Counter" heal.

 

 

*sigh*

 

This is what I was replying to:

 

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Guardian's objectivity btw 😆

 

Which was itself in response to:

5 hours ago, Ragnarox.9601 said:

we get mobility but traits are luckluster, no synergy with anything, and those grandmaster traits are .... i dont know...bad...swap heal with regen, or aegis with no death....its just not worth it.

 

So yes, what I was responding to was SPECIFICALLY about how good/bad the traits are. Hence, any discussion beyond that is not relevant.

 

Do you people not understand how conversations work?

[Ragnar.4257]

3 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Why does "a trait" need to be "super strong for pvp"? You're not playing a single trait, you're playing a class/build. What is even this weird take you're trying to have here?

You replied to a guy saying the traits were lackluster, and suggested that actually the traits are very strong.

 

So all I'm asking is which trait you think is strong.

 

Please try and follow along logically.

[Ragnar.4257]

5 minutes ago, fran.8157 said:

It's role is not just dps is a dueler vibe he have utility, stun break ton of mobility. How you guys don't see the bigger picture. If Willbender will be better then dh with burst dps why you need dh ?. Anet thought about that and made a dueler not a burst power guardian

What does that have to do with anything I said?

[Sobx.1758]

1 minute ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

You replied to a guy saying the traits were lackluster, and suggested that actually the traits are very strong.

 

So all I'm asking is which trait you think is strong.

 

Please try and follow along logically.

Yeah and that guy responded to the thread that talks how the spec looks strong. I guess somehow that bit of context isn't relevant 🤔

 

Almost as if that's the point about ""objectivity"", where someone tries to nitpick at isolated trait/skill/whatever to pretend the package is somehow bad.

Edited August 14, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[KryTiKaL.3125]

Just now, Ragnar.4257 said:

 

 

*sigh*

 

This is what I was replying to:

 

 

Which was itself in response to:

 

So yes, what I was responding to was SPECIFICALLY about how good/bad the traits are. Hence, any discussion beyond that is not relevant.

 

Do you people not understand how conversations work?

 

I understand how conversation works just fine, I'm just telling you that you're assessment is incorrect because the same can be said about literally any Specialization when it is by itself. You can't ignore the other 2/3 of the class. I was disagreeing with you on that basis because you, or whoever else as well, were ignoring literally the other 66% of what makes up a class.

[Ragnar.4257]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

Yeah and that guy responded to the thread that talks how the spec looks strong. I guess somehow that bit of context isn't relevant 🤔

So then how was Ragnarox "not being objective" when he stated, quite validly, that the traits are luckluster?

[Sobx.1758]

1 minute ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

So then how was Ragnarox "not being objective" when he stated, quite validly, that the traits are luckluster?

v

3 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Yeah and that guy responded to the thread that talks how the spec looks strong. I guess somehow that bit of context isn't relevant 🤔

 

Almost as if that's the point about ""objectivity"", where someone tries to nitpick at isolated trait/skill/whatever to pretend the package is somehow bad.

 

Edited August 14, 2021 by Sobx.1758