Herald Dps PVE!

When will Herald Dps get some attention from the Dev's. Its lacking far behind all other Classes thats Power Dps and we barely see them in raids etc. Please Anet Buff the Damage abilites/traits of herald. Thanks.

Power Glint with s/s is in a great place atm. You probably just never figured out the right way to play it. You either don't use Glint or your gear is lacking in crit chance, wrong traits etc. I consistently outdps many many accepted meta class specs. But I hope they command you your wish, I don't mind being even more op :)

You're going to have to be much more specific.If herald DPS is to be boosted in PvE, it more or less has to be glint facet consume damage. The only other things not shared with Renegade are the Herald traitlines and shield (which is not for damage).

Chaotic Release has a 20 second cooldown with a 2.0 damage coefficient in PvE. Because it gives out superspeed maybe it doesn't deserve that much damage.

Burst of Strength has a 12 second cooldown with 1.25 coefficient with 2 impacts in PvE as well as a 25% damage bonus for 5 seconds. Because might is plentiful with druids and firebrands it is an option to consume Facet of Strength. Maybe you want the uptime on the damage bonus to be higher in PvE?

Elemental Blast is the second most likely candidate. It's on a short 10 second cooldown in PvE already ; the 1.15 damage coefficient that ticks 3x is respectable so you'd have to consider other options.

Gaze of Darkness has zero damage so it's better to upkeep Facet of Darkness especially if there isn't perma-fury from double firebrand or a druid.

The only other main thing that could be changed is the minor trait Reinforced Potency : the 1% damage bonus in PVE could possibly be increased. However, 1% is in line with other traits with the same effect such as : Power of the Virtuous (Guardian) , Empowered (Warrior) , Bountiful Hunter (Ranger) , Premeditation (Deadeye). The only exception is Bountiful Power (Elementalist) with a 2% damage bonus per boon.

In addition, what constitutes acceptable DPS to you? Herald is already one of the highest DPS classes in PvE if you are not a hard core player with a near perfect rotation: i.e. the damage modifier are high enough that in the past it has clocked in at 18K just autoattacking (which is not as high as a staff daredevil's 23K but higher than most other classes in the 14-15K auto attacking range).

@choon.6308 said:Power Glint with s/s is in a great place atm. You probably just never figured out the right way to play it. You either don't use Glint or your gear is lacking in crit chance, wrong traits etc. I consistently outdps many many accepted meta class specs. But I hope they command you your wish, I don't mind being even more op :)

im using berserker gear and i got 100% crit with the Rolling Mists trait. The dps is just nowwhere near Dragonhunter/Weaver/Holosmith.. and ye i was not using dragon stance. but dwarf stance with Assasin stance. ill try dragon with Assasin.

@DzT.8127 said:

@choon.6308 said:Power Glint with s/s is in a great place atm. You probably just never figured out the right way to play it. You either don't use Glint or your gear is lacking in crit chance, wrong traits etc. I consistently outdps many many accepted meta class specs. But I hope they command you your wish, I don't mind being even more op :)

There you go, using Shiro or dwarf in Herald results in garbage dps. Like I said and this applies to literally any class and spec, practice makes perfect. Figure out your traits, skills and work on your rotation. When I was a newbie herald, I wasn't even using the consume skills on Glint, I look back at how noob that was :) Herald dps is amazing imo, I got people constantly asking me my build etc.

@choon.6308 said:

@DzT.8127 said:

@choon.6308 said:Power Glint with s/s is in a great place atm. You probably just never figured out the right way to play it. You either don't use Glint or your gear is lacking in crit chance, wrong traits etc. I consistently outdps many many accepted meta class specs. But I hope they command you your wish, I don't mind being even more op :)

What is your bench on golem. I ask because saying shiro is garbage makes no sense.

@zombyturtle.5980 said:

@choon.6308 said:

@DzT.8127 said:

@choon.6308 said:Power Glint with s/s is in a great place atm. You probably just never figured out the right way to play it. You either don't use Glint or your gear is lacking in crit chance, wrong traits etc. I consistently outdps many many accepted meta class specs. But I hope they command you your wish, I don't mind being even more op :)

ye impossible odds is very strong

At the moment there just isn’t really any reason to play Herald over Renegade. Renegade is better support and better dps (both power and condi). In Addition it languishes behind most other power dps builds that have strong utility and cleave abilities; Herald barely has any of that even going so far as to lose damage on two of its DPS skills when cleaving. Herald absolutely could use some sort of buff that makes it more worth taking.

I think a buff on the damaging consume skills on Glint (Specifically burst of strength and elemental blast) would be a strong start in order to solidify her as part of the dps rotation. Followed by a buff on Reinforced Potency to 1.5% instead of 1% if the buff to the consume skills isn’t enough.

I Feel like the swords skill does little damage compare to other weapons on other classes. and there cooldown is way way to high. 15 sec on shackling wave and 15 sec on deathstrike is just to much man, chilling isolation 5 sec is good. but others come on 15sec fix it ANET.

i dont feel like herald traits need a fix. is more like the weapons dmg thas to low and long cooldown.

@choon.6308 said:There you go, using Shiro or dwarf in Herald results in garbage dps.

What??!

For power builds, you have to choose between shiro and jalis. For condi, it is mallyx.

So if you say shiro and jalis are bad with glint, you are playing condi herald, which doesn't have great dps to begin with.

For everyone that says its in a great spot

Its damage its so low, its not even on the snowcrows benchmark list...despite the fact that its support isnt that good either.

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:At the moment there just isn’t really any reason to play Herald over Renegade.

Playing solo. Herald can endure figths that Renegade can't. Herald can win figths that even Mirage (before the evade and cc damage nerf) couldn't.

People just play hurry, like the game were they job. Playing alone and seing so many bots one becomes aware that the time to kill isn't everything...

@Buran.3796 said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:At the moment there just isn’t really any reason to play Herald over Renegade.

This post is specifically about end game pve DPS, not pvp or a solo open world build.

@DzT.8127 said:When will Herald Dps get some attention from the Dev's. Its lacking far behind all other Classes thats Power Dps and we barely see them in raids etc. Please Anet Buff the Damage abilites/traits of herald. Thanks.

DPS is not going to get you a team. It's not why Herald is not wanted in teams.

@Buran.3796 said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:At the moment there just isn’t really any reason to play Herald over Renegade.

Even in solo open world Soulcleave is insane sustain. A well played viper or Berserker renegade is easily on par with Herald in terms of ability to solo things (and brings higher damage), even if you have to be more careful in certain situations. The only thing Herald has over it for solo play is Infuse Light, but there are almost no situations where you actually need an invuln. Pretty much the only time I play Herald in solo situations is when I need swiftness for myself or someone else.

But yes as butter peanut said the post is about high end dps so solo and PvP/WvW are irrelevant. Obviously Herald performs better in PvP and WvW than renegade does.

@Obtena.7952 said:

@DzT.8127 said:When will Herald Dps get some attention from the Dev's. Its lacking far behind all other Classes thats Power Dps and we barely see them in raids etc. Please Anet Buff the Damage abilites/traits of herald. Thanks.

It’s definitely one of the reasons it’s not wanted. If Herald pulled 42k like Power mesmer you’d see it played regardless of what it brings to the table in terms of buffs and supports. But the fact is it’s worse than Renegade for power damage and even worse than Reaper now, sooo that’s certainly a major factor in its playability.

@"ButterPeanut.9746" said:

This post is specifically about end game pve DPS, not pvp or a solo open world build.

Ok, lets try to do this rigth this time:

• Raids are "abandoned content", no new ones in more than a year; probablñy not new ones in the making.

• Herald is also "abandoned content"; was popular in raids at the HoT release due the huge boon duration boost and helped to increase the sales of the game being pivotal in PvE, PvP and WvW. But now ANet is probably focused in the next "overpowered" specs instead of thinking in older specs which already did their job.

  So: probably (sadly) the next PvE dps buff for the Revenant class will arrive in the shape of the new spec for the third expansion, and not in hand of a Herald overhaul.

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:If Herald pulled 42k like Power mesmer you’d see it played regardless ...

yes ... it would have to be TOP DPS for anyone to take it but that's not really relevant and goes without saying. The question here is if it's realistic for Herald to get 42K DPS. I mean ... if you THINK that it's even possible that Anet would buff Herald to give it 42K DPS ... sure I will eat my hat .... but I'm pretty sure I won't have to.

So where are now? Oh yeah ... the same thing I said before .. DPS increase isn't why you aren't getting teamed with Herald because DPS is only desirable to a team when a class can deliver TOP DPS. I love the irony of how this is LITERALLY the same discussion in the necro forums ... they have had plenty of DPS increases ... do they get teams? Believe what you like ... but the evidence that you won't get teams with a DPS increase already exists from other class experiences ... INCLUDING HERALD!!!!!

Maybe you don't know but Heralds used to be desirable in teams and now they are not ... and that has NOTHING to do with what their DPS was or is now.

There are many other classes that are only "meta" in certain game modes, balancing each spec to be good everywhere is almost impossible.

@Obtena.7952 said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:If Herald pulled 42k like Power mesmer you’d see it played regardless ...

Didn’t say they would have to buff it to 42k to make it relevant or taken, just saying that IF it had 42k dps that it WOULD be taken. The reason I pointed this out is that I’m debunking your first claim that “ DPS is not going to get you a team. It's not why Herald is not wanted in teams.” Its overall dps is absolutely part of its lack of desirability.

Also worth noting there are plenty of classes that are taken even though they’re not top tier dps for an encounter. The thing is that a class needs to fall within an “acceptable” range of dps AND/OR provide something major/unique for it to be though of as valuable by the community. Currently I wouldn’t say Herald falls into either of those; it needs a 2-3k dps increase to be able to compete for a dps slot and would need to be able to provide at least 25 might 10 man to compete for a support/healer slot.

So where are now? Oh yeah ... the same thing I said before .. DPS increase isn't why you aren't getting teamed with Herald because DPS is only desirable to a team when a class can deliver TOP DPS. I love the irony of how this is LITERALLY the same discussion in the necro forums ... they have had plenty of DPS increases ... do they get teams? Believe what you like ... but the evidence that you won't get teams with a DPS increase already exists from other class experiences ... INCLUDING HERALD!!!!!

No this is straight wrong and misinformation. Since Reaper has hit 34k it ISN’T meta, but it’s being more accepted by the community. While still not the most desirable, it went from “we don’t want necro at all (or only for epi)” to “a lot of groups will accept necro.” Obviously still not being used in speedclears, but just the fact that it can do acceptable dps now means that the community perception on it is changing and non-speedclear oriented groups aren’t going care to exclude it as much.

Maybe you don't know but Heralds used to be desirable in teams and now they are not ... and that has NOTHING to do with what their DPS was or is now.

I’ve been raiding and maining rev since HoT beta, so definitely aware of why they were desired, and actually dps had a lot to do with it in addition to its support capabilities. Back then Berserker Herald + 1 Support Chrono was higher dps than taking two support chronos. Herald’s dps was also decent for a while until it got butchered by repeated pvp targeted nerfs as well. Nerfing of Chrono SoI + FoN on Herald caused Herald and Rev to fall out of favor entirely for about a year. That began to change when it got condi dps increases, which caused core rev to be vaguely viable. While certainly not meta until Renegade was created during PoF, condi core rev was acceptable to some (not all) groups since its dps crossed the threshold of “acceptable” (back then it was 30-32k generally to be seen as acceptable). As mentioned before even today feelings are the same roughly; classes need to meet certain vague minimum dps checks for groups to feel they’re worth taking (even if not best in slot), or they need to provide something major to the group.

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:Also worth noting there are plenty of classes that are taken even though they’re not top tier dps for an encounter.

Exactly ... and these are things that 'have-not' classes need to bring to a team so they are desirable. No one is going to take Herald doing more DPS ... but they will take Herald if it brings something that the team wants EVEN if it's not good DPS.

Since Reaper has hit 34k it ISN’T meta, but it’s being more accepted by the community.

I won't debate this vague and anecdotal observation. It depends on the context of the teams we are talking about here. I could as easily say Reaper is still not welcome in a meta PUG team because offering 34K DPS and nothing else isn't squat to these kinds of teams. Whatever 'community' you are referring to ... it's certainly not the community that we are talking about here since it is NOT the 'accepting' community that give the players the idea that 'falling behind' is a reason to buff DPS in the first place.

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said:Also worth noting there are plenty of classes that are taken even though they’re not top tier dps for an encounter.

That's not what I mean. I'm not talking about meta speed clears, I'm talking about being able to pump out enough damage that you're not immediately laughed out of any random raid for even picking the class. That cut off point in todays' meta is around 33-34k, unless you bring other stuff. Vast majority of raids happening aren't using 100% speedclear meta compositions on all fights, even among higher tier groups. Most raids I've been a part of don't care if you're playing Holo on a fight that prefers Deadeye if you can still do good damage on Holo. But the

Since Reaper has hit 34k it ISN’T meta, but it’s being more accepted by the community.

Nearly all of the forums have this same issue then since 99% of the forums are vague anecdotes, including your opinions and "what you've seen in other parts of the forums" as well. I consistently see more reaper dps in pug raids and CM fractals than I ever have in the past since Reaper started to be able to pull mid tier dps. Obviously that's an anecdote, but no one's conducting rigorous scientific polling of "how accepted is reaper in raids" so I'm afraid all we have at that point is Snowcrow's tier list (obviously biased towards optimization) and vague anecdotes from people like me. And just because it's not on top of Snowcrow's tier list doesn't mean it's not being played by the vast majority of raiders that don't adhere strictly to the meta.

It depends on the context of the teams we are talking about here. I could as easily say Reaper is still not welcome in a meta PUG team because offering 34K DPS and nothing else isn't squat to these kinds of teams. Whatever 'community' you are referring to ... it's certainly not the community that we are talking about here since it is NOT the 'accepting' community that give the players the idea that 'falling behind' is a reason to buff DPS in the first place.

That does get down to the crux of the issue in "how do you define community" when there are multiple facets and sub-communities within the community as a whole. There are lots of "shades of gray" in terms of the raiding community so trying to define it as "accepting" vs "non-accepting" is just as vague and nebulous as you say I'm being. A perhaps better way to define aspects of the raiding community would be to group them by what their goals are, because that does have an effect on what types of players they'll accept or they won't. Maybe something like:

1) Snowcrows & Speedclear groups2) Raid Sellers

3) Full Meta Tryhard Full Clear Statics4) Full Meta Tryhard Full Clear Pugs5) Semi-Tryhard Full Clear Statics6) Semi-Tryhard Full Clear Pugs7) More Casual Exp Statics8) More Casual Exp Pugs9) Low Exp Guilds/Pugs10) Raid Trainings (various)

The exact qualities of the list can be debated, but I'm not really interested in trying to refine the definition of community down much further, since it's mostly just to illustrate the point that the community is multifaceted and made up of dozens of groups with different standards. The farther down the list you go generally the more accepting the groups become, but obviously there can be some variance from group to group. If a class isn't pulling enough DPS to even be vaguely accepted by numbers 5 through 10, then there's definitely an issue with the class. As a class's dps rises, so does its acceptability within larger portions of the community. Complaints about Reaper and Herald generally come from people that aren't even being accepted in groups 1 through 6, maybe even 7, 8, 9 or 10. You know it's bad when some Raid Trainings don't want the class strictly from its low performance.

Imo, if a class can pull enough dps (or provide enough support) to be generally acceptable within groups 5 through 10 then it's in a fine place. Anet should strive for "generally accepted" for each elite spec (I don't think core should necessarily be always acceptable since it's tied directly with elite spec balance). Not every class needs to be meta, but having all classes have a general level of acceptance (5 to 10) goes a long way towards people feeling accepted by the nebulous "community at large." Having a dps benchmark that the majority find acceptable goes a long way towards improving people's opinions of those classes.

@"Xca.9721" said:There are many other classes that are only "meta" in certain game modes, balancing each spec to be good everywhere is almost impossible.

Depends on how you define "good," but I do think each elite spec should be "acceptable." Also it's easier to achieve this in PvE than it is in PvP or WvW, since all you have to do is just increase a spec's dps to whatever a large portion of the community deems to be "acceptable." Nowadays in the current meta that's somewhere between 33 and 35k damage, at least in my experience through my conversations with people. Problem is Herald pulls around 31k as far as I'm aware (haven't tested it myself recently and I can't find anyone else who has), so it's still a little bit off this mark

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:Also worth noting there are plenty of classes that are taken even though they’re not top tier dps for an encounter.

That's what I mean too. If you are desirable in a team because you bring something they want, you won't get that laughed out of random PUGs. Teams that aren't meta speed clearing teams don't care about your DPS, so boosting DPS for those situations is a big nothing. Sure it's nice to bring more but they won't have a problem with what you have now. See, what you are talking about is Herald being more tolerable ... because a bit more DPS is just that ... slightly easier to tolerate. I think that's a garbage target; it doesn't address anything and there isn't really a reason to bother either. What I'm talking about is being DESIRABLE; people WANT you in the team.

The fact is simple, even if you want to make it a complicated community issue. It's not the DPS that makes you desirable in a team and we know that from current examples and past ones, including Herald itself.

@Buran.3796 said:

@"ButterPeanut.9746" said:

This post is specifically about end game pve DPS, not pvp or a solo open world build.

• Raids are "abandoned content", no new ones in more than a year; probablñy not new ones in the making.

• Herald is also "abandoned content"; was popular in raids at the HoT release due the huge boon duration boost and helped to increase the sales of the game being pivotal in PvE, PvP and WvW. But now ANet is probably focused in the next "overpowered" specs instead of thinking in older specs which already did their job.
  So: probably (sadly) the next PvE dps buff for the Revenant class will arrive in the shape of the new spec for the third expansion, and not in hand of a Herald overhaul.

Nothing you said applies to the comment/question. My point was the post is about end game PVE dps, and you commented about solo gameplay and fighting other players....

@"ButterPeanut.9746" said:

Nothing you said applies to the comment/question. My point was the post is about end game PVE dps, and you commented about solo gameplay and fighting other players....

No. His question is "when the Herald dps is going to have some attention?, because is lacking in raids" and my answer is "probably never". My answer is not related to any game mode in particular; Herald is past water and doesn't move mill; efforts into buffing Rev dps will probably arrive in the next spec. Also, what's your answer to his question, because BzT arleady knowns my answer and what do you think about my answer, but not your answer!