We never learn... blobs are not good for WvW... (ref DAOC.. just take it) Worst and Worst :'(

I play this game since the beginning of it...Pve, Pvp, WvW... everything. And I love it... Maybe too much.

When I saw the potential of GW2 I was amazed by the WvW.3 teams... that's the perfect choice for every WvW game.Mirror classes... The same... ok why not. Easier to "balance" the teams.

The biggest blow was the limit to 5 people for the damage. (a long time ago)My friends lose hope since this change. But still, I hoped.I'm not a hardcore gamer but I love to see hardcore players win against blobs.... because gameplay and teamplay must be the heart of a WvW game... We should not limit that!And still, some people manage to beat the blobs! And it's even better. The "packing" is not so amazing to watch but still requires some discipline and coordination! You lose your identity in that but... ok. And I thought... If they do the limit to 5... but we can still have some skills to touch more people...hmmmm might be enough...I understand the logic of course... but .... it's not a good one if you want to create "legends" real big names. (There is of course big names! in every game there is big names but... They have to work even harder and we are not able to see the "little big names" that cannot shine because of these rules)

The problem is too deep I know...People need to learn that losing is part of the game. Now we do everything for the blob. It's worst and worst every time (In all the games...)... It's okay to die, it's okay to be beaten... It's the game. And it's sooooo amazing when you win! Because of that! The taste is marvelous...But when I go to WvW in GW2 most of the time... I just see people sticking to the blob and PvE... and if you want a fight you need to be amazingggg or at least 20? 30?Again yes, I have seen amazing people playing 1v2 2v4 or else. But there is a limit because of these rules... and I have also seen some amazing little blob fighting against a bigger one. But... the flavor is so strange. Like yes, it still works... but It could be so much better....... The team play is not paying like it has to be!

And I don't speak about the fort that means nothing... that you can take and retake so easily, no attach... no "patriotism"... It's even better for "the points" let them take it! I remember the old days (daoc) when your friends called you at home because the fort was attacked! It was "epic"... Why we can't do that anymore? For the younger to have the challenge, the "emotions"...

It's just a game so "who cares".... But I care... Now that we are blocked in our homes...Farming forts and sticking to blobs shouldn't be the base of WvW. You have the PvE for that and some very great maps to do it!

After today lol... the War and the Ele just lose something great, for everything that can be "different". Now it's flatter and flatter... Races, Classes, they need to be different in their core.... Not only their skills. They have the right to be different. To be Unbalanced. Because in WvW, we are fighting against the same professions.......... so What are we talking about? It's not the problem, everybody is blind about balanced... but that doesn't make a good WvW !!!Make's a good PvP yes! If the 6 classes are close to equal.But NOT WvW. The main goal is TEAMPLAY.Rock, paper, scissors. You need to Depend on the guys with you. Forget about the balance between them. They are your teammates!!!!!!! So who cares!!! I'm okay if my Necro is too tanky or my Warrior is too strong! I'm okay to depend on them. It's an amazing message for your life... hum sorry I'm going too far...

People rarely understand the "real problem" they are too focus on what they want.I'm still going to play of course I love this game... but... so sad about what is the WvW, a lack of taste... It should have been fantastic to have a game in 2021 that can procure so powerful feeling in WvW... I'm going to stick the blob, again!

Regards,

"The biggest blow was the limit to 5 people for the damage."

Nah, it's a good choice for several reasons that have been discussed for years.

It learns placement, movement, it's just different. But it can permit more.And yes it's harder. But like I said: it's good when it's harder. (but it's better for the blob....)

Like you said and like I said it's a topic that is discussed for a too long time.But games without it exist and it works so...

@Mrgreen.8623 said:It learns placement, movement, it's just different. But it can permit more.And yes it's harder. But like I said: it's good when it's harder. (but it's better for the blob....)

Like you said and like I said it's a topic that is discussed for a too long time.But games without it exist and it works so...

Ok, let's do this... You want to fight big blobs with less numbers and think that raising the target for attacks will help achieve that, right? How many targets do you want a skill to hit for? 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50 or higher?

I'm not a dev. This kind of thing must be tested.But it's not the topic. Again we are going to speak about something that is not the real problem.That is just one of the "tools" that it is used to help blob to be harder to fight.

The problem is what Anet and the dev are Aiming for.More targets and more buffs that can touch 10 people, for example, are just choices that go against blobs. Have a cap (25...) for the buff is something good against blobs, that is perfect.Everything that can be the fruit of coordination and reflection is stuff "against" the blob hegemony.

The Devs just push in a direction that it's sad to watch... It's the opposite of gameplay that people have tasted and that was amazing... and still, all the gamers who played remember after 15 years...

In daoc... I have been in blobs that were decimated by 8 people... it was crazy to watch.... we were too pack and BAM, stun pbae.. and we are dead.. When you face the perfect coordination... I amazing.But you learn! And you avoid that the next time... or not... and another funny thing: blobs act differently when this kind of stuff can happen! And even funnier there are fewer blobs because it's not the solution anymore... and you can see more fights, real group fights...

Sorry, I stop here, it was a bad idea. Just too sad to keep it on me...

Ok, well, if you increase attack target caps then your small group of higher target attackers will then face off against blobs that have bigger target attackers plus more boons and heals. You’ll lose anyway due to numbers and stats.

There will be more lag. Devs already stated that as a reason why player skills have caps.

You increase number of targets on skills then there will be even more AoEs, because to fight AoEs you will need more AoEs to counter. There are enough AoEs being flung around wvw as is, and I don’t think we need to double that.

“In daoc... I have been in blobs that were decimated by 8 people...”

I’m sure that’s a whole lot of fun for some! And if you really wish for that type of gameplay, then I want stuff like my deadeye to be able to blow up 10 people easily with rifle when I pop out if stealth! And I want to rush in on groups of 10 with a dagger/dagger soulbeast and rip em up to shreds!

Yes small groups need more influence. But don't think it has to be combat based but rather objective based. Return siege influence, make objectives longer to upgrade, tune down claim buff and most importantly give them smaller enemies to fight by fixing the above.

The 5 player limit has only technical reasons.

• The server infrastructure would explode if everyone could target everyone as the calculation demands would go through the roof.
• The client side CPU demands would even be higher than they are now.

I would not be surprised if several people at anet would actually like to see the limit removed as this would also remove to blob meta and force people to develop new strategies.

This update just buffed the 1-1-1-blob meta, again. Why bother with builds? Why bother learning skills, or rotations. Just run in a massive blob like a noob, hitting 1 and w. Every stinking update lately, has been horrifying. Who is balancing this stuff?! Do A-net devs only only play PvE? Are you afraid your avatar will die? News flash, it's a temporary death and doesn't hurt IRL. Damage should be OK, and one should be able to take the enemy by surprise and have some level of strategy (like you know, builds, damage...coordinated gameplay...I know that sounds crazy and all...). PLEASE, A-net, ask your regular WvW players! Check ranks before you take ideas from the level 1's who are afraid to leave spawn, because what you're doing is causing the long-time WvW players to migrate away. Or is that the goal? If that is the case, it's working because I ran into several former WvW players last night, while we were playing another game. We all talked about how WvW just kept getting slowly strangled. That was last night, before today's latest WvW strangulation event.

@Mrgreen.8623 said:In daoc... I have been in blobs that were decimated by 8 people... it was crazy to watch.... we were too pack and BAM, stun pbae.. and we are dead.. When you face the perfect coordination... I amazing.But you learn! And you avoid that the next time... or not... and another funny thing: blobs act differently when this kind of stuff can happen! And even funnier there are fewer blobs because it's not the solution anymore... and you can see more fights, real group fights...

Sorry, I stop here, it was a bad idea. Just too sad to keep it on me...

All of this was possible due to mesmerize, which has no similar skill in this game. Not to mention that games and gamers have moved on from 20 years ago.

I doubt many players would stick around to get cced for 40 seconds and farmed down by a melee train.

The same goes for pbaoe spells from DAoC and no target cap. It lead to who can spamm damage the best in the middle.

Don't get me wrong, I have great memories of DAoC, but I also try not to wear those rose tinted glasses to deep. The same things you mention as great caused a lot of issues in the game and with a much larger selection of games today, it is unlikely that a vast majority of players would love to play the loot piniatas for small guild groups.

Its already been said but the reason for the 5 player cap is that the servers would combust if the cap was higher or non existent. Some people will say the caps there for balance. But blobs are one of the worst things about wvw. There is no drawback or sacrifice made by blobbing. Its nothing but positives. But due to the technology of the day its something we need to live with.

I can only imagine the tactics that talented commanders/drivers could implement if the limit was not in place. But as has been said its an impossibility so the larger blob will usually always win.You hear stories of people claiming that single digit teams have taken out 40-50 size blobs, and I'm sure its happened on some occasions in this games history. But the stars need to perfectly align and the 40 newest/worst players in the game need to come together for it to be possible. maybe a squad of 10 could wipe 30 every once in a blue moon. But less than 10 vs 40+? Probably has happened at some point, but infrequently enough that it can colloquially be said its impossible.

@Doug.4930 said:I can only imagine the tactics that talented commanders/drivers could implement if the limit was not in place.I can.

Stack 50 people. Stealth. Push and kill everything you roll over in a sea of AoE.

Would that be much difference from zerging today? Whether 10 people could roll over 40+ given skill differences is irrelevant. If 10 can do it, 20 does it better. If 20 can do it, 40 does it better.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Doug.4930 said:I can only imagine the tactics that talented commanders/drivers could implement if the limit was not in place.I can.

50 players at one spot blobbing would be an automatic loss to a more organized group and so numbers would matter less. Clouding a blob would be more effective. Everything would be better as long as you are not a player that needs to be carried by a low skill cap for your targets.

Of course heal and boon application should not be unlimited as this would indeed annihilate the target uncap and everything would stay as it is but with much higher compute demands and a lot more visual clutter.

You would have to get rid of boon balling first.Even then mass cc combat is not fun, even the immobilize we have is annoying as it is.We already had the high damage for 5 years, which led to the mess they added to cater to that high damage, auto proc defenses, more boons, longer boon durations, more spamming boons, more convert boons, more condi's, more corruption, more evades, more blocks, more reflects... should have kept things to field blasting...

Again we are focus on "details".DAoC Mez was of course an amazing skill to create the perfect advantage for the little groups. But it's the past. I agree that the new generation doesn't want that anymore... it's sad but people want always to be in "control" now... they want to be able to respond every time! I can understand that.But they are a lot of other directions you can take to help the little ones!

The limit of 5 people is old now. But on the 1st of December, we loose the BUFF for 10 people... and it was one of the best counters for the blobs !!! If buffs can be wild spread the little guild groups of 10-15-20 have more chances to fight against the no brain blobs... And that is easy for the servers..........

Again it's just an example. The real problem is the very bad way we are going from the beginning. Little by little, we go for the blob...It's crazy to say that but: people don't understand what they want.... more victory without real skill/training/team play is not a good way... very bad circle. Little pleasure but 00 real satisfaction.Give them more difficulty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We need that even if we don't want it! The pleasure is way more important! Cultivate people, give them goals! Please don't make them sheep that follow and push the 1 on the keyboard. PvE it's better for that! And Gw2 is good in this way... lot's of world event... don't make the WvW like the PvE...

Stop feeding the blob, please...

Stack 50 people. Stealth. Push and kill everything you roll over in a sea of AoE.

Why always troll? Of course, Stealth must be treated with great care... Please we love this game let's be constructive.

Would that be much different from zerging today? Whether 10 people could roll over 40+ given skill differences is irrelevant. If 10 can do it, 20 does it better. If 20 can do it, 40 does it better.

It's so much better, to spread the people on the map! it's amazing. It's the main goal they should aim for! Making the blob less powerful means more fights across the map!The goal is not to say: 40 is bad.... but a 10 Vs 40 can be an option, a crazy one but still can be "possible". If 10/15 people can have more impact that will change the way we play. The blob will be more careful... still stronger of course... but not mighty powerful...The Balanced must be a focus on that! Not between the professions! (in WvW)There is a lot of ways...

@"Mrgreen.8623" said:The goal is not to say: 40 is bad.... but a 10 Vs 40 can be an option, a crazy one but still can be "possible". If 10/15 people can have more impact that will change the way we play. The blob will be more careful... still stronger of course... but not mighty powerful...Would this entire thread be pointless if that was the case?

Because it is. You can literally just go to Youtube and type in "Cakewalk" to get a bazillion examples of 10 vs. blob. There are some other groups in the 10-15 vs. blob too.

The problem is rather that there are very few guilds left so there are even fewer guilds who focus on- or dabble in zergbusting left.

The sad truth is that we have a game mode that new players from other games can't enter so our only faucet of new players are existing players of an MMO that has taken a sharp turn into casual single-player content. The players who can come in mirror that behaviour and expectations. Most people find it pointless to build guilds and other communities as a result, whether they are antisocial players themselves or feel like there are not enough socially active players left to ask.

Look at any pickup group today and you are going to see 75%+ of the people who even made it onto coms have their mics turned off as if everyone had technical, physical or social limitations to the expected norm.

Conversely, that makes them even easier to kill for a smaller organized group, but since they are so sparse anyway, they gain little attention.

I know that there are people who can do it. I said it at the beginning...But again the problem is still that Dev don't help them. Don't go in this direction. We need that to be emulated, not to be an exception...

And the second point is even more important. We are less and less so it's even better if we can reduce the blob / split it! To have more fights...I don't currently play DAoC but I know that, in a way, it still works, very few people but still works (wtf?!). We can have so much better with Gw2.

Also very true about the commanders... that is linked for me. Everything goes like PvE without communication/links with people... We are going down because of the low expectation. We should rise up the difficulty...People who play PvP don't play like PvE it should be the same in WvW. should be another type of game like PvP/PvE... et real different one.

@Mrgreen.8623 said:But again the problem is still that Dev don't help them. Don't go in this direction. We need that to be emulated, not to be an exception...Well, the help that they need is not necessarily different target caps or balance but rather the ever looming issue to not be scrooged over by full servers and transfer fees. Full servers, queues and transfer fees are the problem here because we, can't, play, with, friends. Groups that zergbust in particular relies on playing, with, friends. If we have friends who yet not play GW2 we need to be able to get on the same team/map to play, with, those, friends.

It is literally that god damned fundamental.

Omg that too...

Idk about you guys but I like blob fighting. I wouldn't come to WvW if I didn't like it.

I think small group is a thing of yesterday. I small grouped for years and years in gw2 and since feb the decline in both activity and skill in small group settings is comparable to how bad hot release was. Small group aside, I think it's actually fair and realistic to say that roaming is dead atm, fully dead. Small group/havok itself (mainly composed of roamers) is not far behind and is now relegated to cloud/zerg surfing pretty much as they pose almost 0 threat to a significantly larger group.

The devs are nerfing the skill ceiling, ultimately that's the issue. Small group can't have an impact a gamestate that exists in that reality. One shots cannot exist in the current expression of wvw and without them small scale cannot function in a gamemode that more and more focuses on balancing the blob v blob meta.

It's easy to point to and suggest that blob balancing is responsible for the decline in wvw over the last few months but I feel a huge element of that is the removal of other wvw playstyles. Those people also zerg (and mostly to a much higher level than johnny potato, by this I mean increasing the overall 'fun' level for all members of a zerg) and removing their primary style of play (roaming or small scale) definitely impacts the feel of the map overall.

But it is what it is. Wvw has provided so many hours of great, great content. It's easy to be annoyed at what it is now, but it's important to remember all the fun times it once brought, so I'll just play something else and goodluck to those enjoying it :)

Balance around small or individual would improve the game by alot. Blobs would just have to assist and actualy think about what skills to use instead of spaming buttons when cd is over. But anet is bad so it will never happen