Lets Give Anet Credit

People always quick to criticize Anet and go silent when they do something good. I think they deserve a round of applause for the changes to revenant.Ive been playing the game since 2012, played Revenant since HoT beta and I have to say this is the first overall positive patch to the class since HoT went live. You really did good on this one.The Damage is Back.All those nerfs to our weapons destroyed the damage rev had in the beta. That caused so many problems especially since all the damage was split. Revenant has no escape so it made no sense to kill the damage consistently for so long. Now we have both single target and multi target damage with dual swords. The block is gone but the trade off for shadowstep and 2 single target damage skills is definitely worth it.

The Class is Less RigidMy biggest issue with all the changes after hot beta was that the class became extremely stiff to play. Since phase traversal was nerfed there were too many gaps in revenants movement and too many times I was forced to wait for a second or 2 for that 5 more energy or for PT to go off cooldown. Thanks to Sword off hand 5, the class is a lot more fluid. I cant stress enough how significant this is. Combos work a lot better and a lot faster.

The New TraitsThe new traits are actually really good. They are a lot better than what they replaced. The conditions from shrouded mists can be incredibly useful if used properly (except the burn/chill when swapping to glint, it is really lackluster imo). Losing equilibrium is perfectly fine considering we got 2 extra burst skills on sword. The traitline generally is now finally dynamic and each trait can be significant in multiple ways not just straight damage.

The new Charged mists is exactly what we needed. No one could understand why you were multiplying the energy requirements and forcing us to sit around waiting for it when we are trying to pull off combos. If we arent getting a drop to energy requirement across the board then this trait is the next best thing.

For the first time it looks like a lot of thought went into a revenant patch. Nobody could understand why revenant kept getting nerfed for so long without any compensation. I dont know who is responsible for this one but on behalf of all the long time revs including the ones that left it to play mesmer and thief, thank you very much. I rate this patch 10/10.

Sword + sword is a paper tiger which dies in a blink. I don't use the new traits or the new sword. Full Counter nerf is the highlight of the patch. Hopefully they will turn shield a mobile block in the future.

Let’s see, Anet barely touches renegade, which has major issues. Most definitely the worst out of all 18 PoF and HoT elites in PvP. Waste their time remaking off hand sword to be another variant of off hand axe. We can say the invocation changes were okay, but invocation line was hardly a priority.

PvP meta builds have not changed. PvE power build gained a slight damage buff. At the rate of the buffs it get it might become meta in 2025.

I would give Anet an F on the changes cuz renegade, not off hand sword or invocation were priority.

Revenant is still a rip-off of a class.

Lets not..

i guess renegade changes were to hard to implement for this patch as it need overall.invocation line is nice with more nrg, and boon proc without nrg use and more might.renegade with invocation can get now 25 might stacks so fast like 2 sec.also support ventari jalis has more easy way to self sustain (heal for 3k around me and not the tablet)

still weak to conditions , bit less dmg over more sustain (more protection and quickness proccing without nrg)

sword change was not needed as axe to it better. but i guess the wanted to remove the block

1-10 i give it 4

Glad they buffed offhand sword. I like dual since that's what Shiro had and he was my favourite character from GW1 :)

whoever complains about them not touching renegade much needs a reality check. They need to fix core rev and now we know they are at least trying out new ideas in that direction. I guess over time we will figure out how good or bad these changes are, but i think overall they are good changes. For those who complain about not having the block on OH sword, no one really used OH sword. I used it in pvp occasionally because I hated shields block, but it wasn't better than the other options. The old #5 skill was fun dragging people off points, but it wasn't worth taking OH sword for. Honestly I think there are people who use shield for defense, and then people who used axe for the gap closer and cc. I thought axe was powerful enough on a power build, but we'll see how this new OH sword works. The gap closer is such a huge plus for me and will help assist in chasing down weak targets.

On a PvE standpoint both Herald and Renegade got a nice boost, Renegade can now sub in for support/healer in raids by providing massive heals, full might stacks, 100% alacrity uptime and still maintain somewhat decent DPS, the condi renegade build is also still strong and good for DPS.Power Herald is viable again apparently and that's awesome, it doesn't provide MASSIVE dps and isn't certainly top tier but with the unique boon duration facet plus various boons I'm sure it can find its place in raids, fractals and everywhere else quite easily.

PvP-wise Revenant has never been in a bad spot, Herald is still quite strong and although Renegade is still subpar in PvP it can find its niche as a support to others, just don't try to solo, the main problem in PvP is some other classes being overpowered if anything (Scourge and Guardians to cite a couple), even Kralkatorrik himself would feel underpowered against them.

One thing I really don't get is all the hate related to the OH Sword.

Nobody ever used that thing, the block surely had its niche in PvP but I'd take a massive area burst dmg + immo & Shadowstep over it every day, who needs blocking, axe for condi, Sword for Power, I don't see an issue here other than people complaining because they try to use it on condi builds.

Glad someone else shares a positive view on these changes instead of spouting bile left and right without even trying the damn thing first.

@otto.5684 said:Let’s see, Anet barely touches renegade, which has major issues. Most definitely the worst out of all 18 PoF and HoT elites in PvP. Waste their time remaking off hand sword to be another variant of off hand axe. We can say the invocation changes were okay, but invocation line was hardly a priority.

PvP meta builds have not changed. PvE power build gained a slight damage buff. At the rate of the buffs it get it might become meta in 2025.

I would give Anet an F on the changes cuz renegade, not off hand sword or invocation were priority.

Changing the invocation line as much as they did as well as the offhand sword affected the entire class including renegade because renegade uses both. Are there some things that were omitted sure, like shield. Its literally as bad as the original guardian shield. Tbh im surprised its still the way it is considering they had to practically redesign guardian's shield.

However enough changes have been made to play the wait and see game. Its not like before were they practically did nothing or worse shafted the entire class then waited 3 months only to do it again.

If you have played the class long enough especially since beta you should know how much better this patch is.

@ScottBroChill.3254 said:no one really used OH sword.Ow, guess I never existed. And so did other revs I encountered with s/s before.

Shame. I love how all of you guys suddenly appear after some patch and then vanish never appearing again.

@Ragion.2831 said:

@otto.5684 said:Let’s see, Anet barely touches renegade, which has major issues. Most definitely the worst out of all 18 PoF and HoT elites in PvP. Waste their time remaking off hand sword to be another variant of off hand axe. We can say the invocation changes were okay, but invocation line was hardly a priority.

PvP meta builds have not changed. PvE power build gained a slight damage buff. At the rate of the buffs it get it might become meta in 2025.

I would give Anet an F on the changes cuz renegade, not off hand sword or invocation were priority.

No the changes are no where near enough.

We told Anet that Renegade had major issues at beta. They were not addressed.

We told Anet that Renegade had major issues at PoF release. They were not addressed.

We continuously told them that Renegade had major issues through 11/7 patch. They were not addressed.

The changes to mace 3 and Kalla's Legacy nerfed condi build. Invocation line changes are not enough to make up for the loss, not to mention you do not use invocation in the raid meta build which uses renegade/corruption/devastation. So, renegade/condi builds go nerfed and are renegade is not even remotely PvP viable. The invocation and OH sword changes only impact herald and mostly for PvE. The are not irrelevant, but way out of priority and honestly, not that impact-full. It is like 5% dps buff for power build, after all this mumbo jumbo?

I give Anet zero credit. In fact, it the minimum end I was expecting changes to be far more effective. This is garbage.

@Ragion.2831 said:Are there some things that were omitted sure, like shield. Its literally as bad as the original guardian shield. Tbh im surprised its still the way it is considering they had to practically redesign guardian's shield.

Shield is still the best off hand weapon to play in PvP tournaments inside a conformed team, that's exactly "how bad the shield is". For yolo solo queue the thing can change because you can't expect secure support and the shield + staff alone won't save you from corrupt boon spam. But if you want to go full ofensive then I still find axe leagues above sword, because has lower cooldowns, lower energy cost, stronger cc and a close gap of 900 instead of 600.

In a single minute axe lest you to spam Frigid Blitz 6 times with a total energy cost of 60 energy units and Temporal Rift 5 times with a cost of 75; in the same minute off hand sword can only spam Shackling Wave 4 times with a total energy cost of 40 and Deathstrike 3 times at a total cost of 60. So axe lets you attack up to 11 times a minute at a total cost of 135 (average cost of 12.27 x attack) whereas the off hand sword lest you attack up to 7 times at a total cost of 100 (average cost of 14,28). Axe provides 4 extra attacks at lower energy cost, better range and stronger AoE cc. We traded a mobile block of two seconds each 12 seconds for a spike damage which pales sided to a weapon (axe) which already had.

Anet gets no credit, the patch did next to nothing good when there was so much low hanging fruit for them to make an attempt at getting.

Credit for WHAT?!

The sword changes were good. Invocation is good too. But yea renegade still is garbage.

I thought sword is no good until i tryed it. Its the best off hand hands down. Not because of design but because od the crazy damage it does. Last night in spvp i was hitting people for 10k with it with the same old power herald build.

But anet really needa to do something about renegade. Its only good in pve as a number booster. Shortbow still sucks. F2 f3 f4 still suck. Kalla still sucks.

Half of their changes are good the other half is just a confirmation that whoever is in charge of Rev has never played it in PvP not even for a second. Removing Equilibrium for no reason was stupid. Completely redoing OH sword is also hilarious because it's not like rev is chokefull of weapon options, but instead of adding a completely new one they decide to take away the entire skillset of a weapon and give it a new one.. I can't even..

Delete spirit boon (no one will notice) and put back Equilibrium, ty.

@Buran.3796 said:

@Ragion.2831 said:Are there some things that were omitted sure, like shield. Its literally as bad as the original guardian shield. Tbh im surprised its still the way it is considering they had to practically redesign guardian's shield.

Combat is a lot more complex than how many times you can attack with a skill in one minute. For one thing the fact that i dont need to hit a projectile on sword 5 to port already makes the weapon better than axe. If the projectile is avoided you are now stuck running or wasting a dodge trying to gap close. The lack of range influence is partly why block on off hand was necessary.

The reason why replacing the block is fine is because endurance regeneration is a lot better. They replaced the retribution chance for endurance on hit trait with a more reliable endurance regen. In addition to Herald endurance regen, we can keep up 150% endurance regen all the time now which works well with sigil of energy. On its own this wouldn't have been enough except that there are additional single target burst skills now so you can save unrelenting assault when you need it as opposed to being forced to use it all the time just for damage.

Also the damage being better puts less pressure on evades so you have an easier time keeping endurance.

Tbh i havent met a serious power rev that uses axe offhand. They die too easily to +1s and high damage in general. axe off hand is also not that difficult to out play because axe 4 can be dodged if paying attention and axe 5 has the delay on it. Sword 4 is really fast and immobilizes, and sword 5 cant be reacted to as easily. Plus sword 5 doesnt need a projectile to hit for the teleport.

@Ragion.2831 said:! > > @Buran.3796 said:! > > > @Ragion.2831 said:! > > > Are there some things that were omitted sure, like shield. Its literally as bad as the original guardian shield. Tbh im surprised its still the way it is considering they had to practically redesign guardian's shield.! > >! > >! > > Shield is still the best off hand weapon to play in PvP tournaments inside a conformed team, that's exactly "how bad the shield is". For yolo solo queue the thing can change because you can't expect secure support and the shield + staff alone won't save you from corrupt boon spam. But if you want to go full ofensive then I still find axe leagues above sword, because has lower cooldowns, lower energy cost, stronger cc and a close gap of 900 instead of 600.! > >! > > In a single minute axe lest you to spam Frigid Blitz 6 times with a total energy cost of 60 energy units and Temporal Rift 5 times with a cost of 75; in the same minute off hand sword can only spam Shackling Wave 4 times with a total energy cost of 40 and Deathstrike 3 times at a total cost of 60. So axe lets you attack up to 11 times a minute at a total cost of 135 (average cost of 12.27 x attack) whereas the off hand sword lest you attack up to 7 times at a total cost of 100 (average cost of 14,28). Axe provides 4 extra attacks at lower energy cost, better range and stronger AoE cc. We traded a mobile block of two seconds each 12 seconds for a spike damage which pales sided to a weapon (axe) which already had.! >! > Combat is a lot more complex than how many times you can attack with a skill in one minute. For one thing the fact that i dont need to hit a projectile on sword 5 to port already makes the weapon better than axe. If the projectile is avoided you are now stuck running or wasting a dodge trying to gap close. The lack of range influence is partly why block on off hand was necessary.! >! > The reason why replacing the block is fine is because endurance regeneration is a lot better. They replaced the retribution chance for endurance on hit trait with a more reliable endurance regen. In addition to Herald endurance regen, we can keep up 150% endurance regen all the time now which works well with sigil of energy. On its own this wouldn't have been enough except that there are additional single target burst skills now so you can save unrelenting assault when you need it as opposed to being forced to use it all the time just for damage.! >! > Also the damage being better puts less pressure on evades so you have an easier time keeping endurance.! >! > Tbh i havent met a serious power rev that uses axe offhand. They die too easily to +1s and high damage in general. axe off hand is also not that difficult to out play because axe 4 can be dodged if paying attention and axe 5 has the delay on it. Sword 4 is really fast and immobilizes, and sword 5 cant be reacted to as easily. Plus sword 5 doesnt need a projectile to hit for the teleport.!

I'm really tired at this point of explaining things to ppl that have no clue at all about the class and come talk shit to defend what is so obviously wrong.So you didn't meet a rev that could seriously use axe off hand? Do you play in bronze/silver by any chance?And btw, this is how you use axe off hand. Anyone who know how to use axe can pull a good survivability like that in a team fight both in spvp and in wvw. In the first fight starting at 0:50 you can see him pull a 5k+ with equilibrium, that is the amount of burst potential anet just took from us. L2p before shit talking something that you dont even know how to use.

@Ragion.2831 said:

The Damage is Back.All those nerfs to our weapons destroyed the damage rev had in the beta. That caused so many problems especially since all the damage was split. Revenant has no escape so it made no sense to kill the damage consistently for so long. Now we have both single target and multi target damage with dual swords. The block is gone but the trade off for shadowstep and 2 single target damage skills is definitely worth it.

It's not though lol. Have you actually tested the changes? The damage is like no different than before. You think because sword 5 has a big number offhand sword increases your dps? it cost 20 energy, 20 energy that could go to just auto attack spamming in shiro quickness. Using sword 5 is a dps loss and using sword 4 is a tiny dps increase. If you really wanted a gap closer just use axe, at least axe 5 will hit a break bar. Losing the block is devastating for pvp and most definatley not worth a tiny dps increase in pve. Revenant already struggled hard in the condi scourge meta and sword getting higher bursts is not going to change that. Revenant does not have a problem doing damage, it has a problem surviving. Now you're just a worse thief.

@Halikus.1406 said:

@Ragion.2831 said:! > > @Buran.3796 said:! > > > @Ragion.2831 said:! > > > Are there some things that were omitted sure, like shield. Its literally as bad as the original guardian shield. Tbh im surprised its still the way it is considering they had to practically redesign guardian's shield.! > >! > >! > > Shield is still the best off hand weapon to play in PvP tournaments inside a conformed team, that's exactly "how bad the shield is". For yolo solo queue the thing can change because you can't expect secure support and the shield + staff alone won't save you from corrupt boon spam. But if you want to go full ofensive then I still find axe leagues above sword, because has lower cooldowns, lower energy cost, stronger cc and a close gap of 900 instead of 600.! > >! > >

In a single minute

axe lest you to spam

Frigid Blitz 6 times

with a total energy cost of 60 energy units and

Temporal Rift 5

times with a cost of 75; in the same minute off hand sword can only spam

Shackling Wave 4 times

with a total energy cost of 40 and

Deathstrike 3 times

at a total cost of 60. So

axe lets you attack up to 11 times a minute

at a total cost of 135 (average cost of 12.27 x attack)

whereas the off hand sword lest you attack up to 7 times

at a total cost of 100 (average cost of 14,28). Axe provides 4 extra attacks at lower energy cost, better range and stronger AoE cc. We traded a mobile block of two seconds each 12 seconds for a spike damage which pales sided to a weapon (axe) which already had.! >! > Combat is a lot more complex than how many times you can attack with a skill in one minute. For one thing the fact that i dont need to hit a projectile on sword 5 to port already makes the weapon better than axe. If the projectile is avoided you are now stuck running or wasting a dodge trying to gap close. The lack of range influence is partly why block on off hand was necessary.! >! > The reason why replacing the block is fine is because endurance regeneration is a lot better. They replaced the retribution chance for endurance on hit trait with a more reliable endurance regen. In addition to Herald endurance regen, we can keep up 150% endurance regen all the time now which works well with sigil of energy. On its own this wouldn't have been enough except that there are additional single target burst skills now so you can save unrelenting assault when you need it as opposed to being forced to use it all the time just for damage.! >! > Also the damage being better puts less pressure on evades so you have an easier time keeping endurance.! >! > Tbh i havent met a serious power rev that uses axe offhand. They die too easily to +1s and high damage in general. axe off hand is also not that difficult to out play because axe 4 can be dodged if paying attention and axe 5 has the delay on it. Sword 4 is really fast and immobilizes, and sword 5 cant be reacted to as easily. Plus sword 5 doesnt need a projectile to hit for the teleport.!

I am referring to pvp and I specifically said +1s. In team fights even hammer can look good. If a couple of people with half a brain decide to even look at you for a few seconds you dont have WvW damage and ice burst sigil (i forget the name) to save you.

How do you delete posts anyway

@Flauvious.6195 said:

@Ragion.2831 said:

The Damage is Back.

All those nerfs to our weapons destroyed the damage rev had in the beta. That caused so many problems especially since all the damage was split. Revenant has no escape so it made no sense to kill the damage consistently for so long. Now we have both single target and multi target damage with dual swords. The block is gone but the trade off for shadowstep and 2 single target damage skills is definitely worth it.

It's not though lol. Have you actually tested the changes? The damage is like no different than before. You think because sword 5 has a big number offhand sword increases your dps? it cost 20 energy, 20 energy that could go to just auto attack spamming in shiro quickness. Using sword 5 is a dps loss and using sword 4 is a tiny dps increase. If you really wanted a gap closer just use axe, at least axe 5 will hit a break bar. Losing the block is devastating for pvp and most definatley not worth a tiny dps increase in pve. Revenant already struggled hard in the condi scourge meta and sword getting higher bursts is not going to change that. Revenant does not have a problem doing damage, it has a problem surviving. Now you're just a worse thief.

Cmon man, stop and think about what im saying for a second. The biggest issues with sword damage was that the main damage skills were split and that you could not land auto attacks reliably after phase traversal was nerfed and the projectiles on the AA removed. Before you could avoid using unrelenting and just PT behind the target and auto because the AA did a lot of damage and PT cost 20 energy with no cooldown (which kinda made sense because the damage skills were split).

You dont fight golems in matches so In real combat not damage tests being able to always stick to your target meant that you are dealing more damage over time. After PT got nerfed you couldnt stick to a target anymore and you were always in this awkward range were you cant really connect the AAs safely most of the time.

sword 4 and 5 do a lot of damage. You should watch Bryvenant's twitch vid post patch if you want the numbers. He dropped about 8k on someone with sword 4 alone.

Sword 5 is much better than axe 4 because I can use it as an escape in some situations and it does not require a hit for the port to work so it works much better as a chaser against thieves for example.

If you are missing the block then you need to practice dodging. You cant take no endurance regen with the block gone and expect to survive as well as before.

I really liked this patch for Rev. However, if I may be so bold, I think they should consider having charged mists be a baseline functionality, or a minor trait for Invocation. I realize that makes that playstyle assumed, but I think it's quite healthy for Rev gameplay in general and it's hard to look to the others after trying it.