NCsoft Q3 2017 Earnings — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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  • Erasculio.2914Erasculio.2914 Member ✭✭✭

    The main issue with HoT's earnings is that, on the quarter after release, they fell back down to the falling pattern seen before the expansion was released.

    In other words, it looked like the expansion didn't bring long term gain to ArenaNet; if anything, it gave the impression that units were sold to the current players, and that was it.

    Now, the earnings from PoF appear to be less than those from HoT, but looks can be deceiving here. I'm more interested on what will happen on the long term - if the following quarters will return to a falling pattern from 13,557, or if there will be sustained gain with the new expansion.

    How about some anti eyes bleeding options? Here's the direct link to the concept.

  • troops.8276troops.8276 Member ✭✭✭

    Mobile games revenue is huge in comparison.
    NA/EU contribution to NCsofts overall sales are very small.
    More cash shop focus and GW3 Mobile any time soon I wonder.

  • TexZero.7910TexZero.7910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    They must have mixed MxM into mobile games....or its just absent for whatever reason.

  • morrolan.9608morrolan.9608 Member ✭✭✭

    Figures are definitely concerning however we will have to wait for next quarters earnings to get the full picture on PoF. I will say that having lowered the price anet would have expected to sell more units and that doesn't appear to have happened

  • Horse hockey. GW2 is still a major force in NA and Europe. Mobile looks like it was a HUGE pull in Korea as the income from that area more than triple with income from Taiwan and Japan being relatively flat. NCSoft is launching their mobile Lineage II game in the US and they are throwing bucks into it. Twitchcon had Conan O'Brien at the Lineage II Mobile game booth one day of the con.

  • My lil message> @particlepinata.9865 said:

    I personally think we will have to wait for the Q4 earnings report to conclude things. Q3 is only 1 and a half week of Pof from release.

    Pre-purchase started on august 1. Don't lie to yourself: the only reason q4 can be better is due to those rng-lootboxes, even ncsoft admitted that indirectly in their report.

    But the thing is their money is none of our business. What really makes me sad is how bad PoF (and the current state of the game in general) is. That's a shame.

  • this doesnt look good at all, roughly on par with older games, and outperformed grossly by B&S
    i have tried AION , that game is nowhere near the quality of GW2
    im quite baffled by this..what did Anet spend all those money on?

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    So Guild Wars 2 went back to between Q1 2015 revenue (20026) and Q3 2015 (20699) (Pre Heart of Thorns both)

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nereikia.3507 said:
    But the thing is their money is none of our business. What really makes me sad is how bad PoF (and the current state of the game in general) is. That's a shame.

    Keep in mind that Path of Fire is half price compared to Heart of Thorns so having less revenue is a given, provided the player base didn't grow in the mean time. Now how much lower we'll see.

  • Turin.6921Turin.6921 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 9, 2017

    These sales are with 1.5 weeks of selling PoF and all the other games are published in Asia as well. The sales look decent. They are even higher than the forecast.

  • @battledrone.8315 said:

    @TheRandomGuy.7246 said:
    No marketing to bring in new players. No endgame to keep old players. Not surprised.

    1: i see plenty of PoF ads on the web, the problem is, that you wont attract many NEW players with END GAME content
    2: they havent made anything BUT end game content, since the game launched, and now we have the consequences of that..there is mostly whales and F2Pers left

    Random banner with "Buy PoF" is good if people know what it is. I doubt anyone gonna do research about every popup that is probably blocked by the ad block in the first place.
    4 raid wings and 3 fractals in 2 years. 1 dungeon in 5 years. All this endgame.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 9, 2017

    @TheRandomGuy.7246 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @TheRandomGuy.7246 said:
    No marketing to bring in new players. No endgame to keep old players. Not surprised.

    1: i see plenty of PoF ads on the web, the problem is, that you wont attract many NEW players with END GAME content
    2: they havent made anything BUT end game content, since the game launched, and now we have the consequences of that..there is mostly whales and F2Pers left

    Random banner with "Buy PoF" is good if people know what it is. I doubt anyone gonna do research about every popup that is probably blocked by the ad block in the first place.
    4 raid wings and 3 fractals in 2 years. 1 dungeon in 5 years. All this endgame.

    about pop ups it's also worth mentioning contextual adverts are based on your cookies, so you'll only see PoF ad if you're already interested in the game

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    On topic, I do believe Q4 will be important to lool at. Longterm revenue is of importance and arenanet has been selling more and more items via the gemstore as well as people being reluctant to purchase PoF an release (as well as its lower price tag compared to HoT). If the revenue remains stable, spikes become less important.

    I hope some time in the near future someone at Arenanet opens the subject of "free to play" and instead of finding ways to annoy their loyal customers (like with the mount skins) they find ways to convince free players to buy the game. That huge un-tapped potential is there, waiting to get some attention.
    Adding Gliding in Core Tyria, Mounts in Core Tyria, even the Halloween Labyrinth race that was only really doable on a Mount, are all ways to persuade the free players (or simple core game owners) to buy the expansion.
    According to an old report, when the game went free to play, the active population doubled, but what happened to all those players? Finding why and then "fixing" it if possible is the way to make huge amounts of money in my opinion, without upsetting the current/loyal players with bad RNG gem store deals.

  • troops.8276troops.8276 Member ✭✭✭

    The graph is listed under Sales Breakdown by IP in the full report.
    NCsoft total sales for Q3 are 727 billion won and net profit for Q3 is 275 billion won, about $246 million USD.

  • Tekey.7946Tekey.7946 Member ✭✭✭

    @Danikat.8537 said:
    This is your quarterly reminder that these graphs do not show the amount of money players have spent on GW2 (or any other NCSoft game), only the profit NCSoft made from them. Therefore it can be affected by any number of things, many of which we have no information on.

    This includes, but is not limited to:

    • The exchange rate between US Dollars and Korean Won
    • Anet's costs
    • The percentage Anet is allowed to keep as profit
    • Marketing budget
    • Money set aside for future development

    And probably a dozen other things I've not thought of. It's really annoying to have an incomplete picture, but unless and until Anet becomes a publicly traded company and has to publish full financial details for their shareholders (read: never) all we have to go on is one of the end points of their finances. Trying to work out exactly how much they made originally from that would be like trying to work out your salary from what you have in your wallet on payday.

    (I also think it's worth remembering that every single time one of these comes out it's taken as proof that the game is struggling at best, or more likely dying and NCSoft are likely to shut it down soon unless Anet does something....usually whatever is top of that poster's personal list of desired additions/changes.)

    IMO a better indication of how GW2 is doing will be the announcement of Season 4 of the Living Story. If the game is struggling and especially if it's in financial trouble they're highly unlikely to start developing a large (and therefore expensive) series of new releases to give away free to the majority of players.

    ... what did I just read?
    It's pretty easy, take the Q3 2017 reports, compare them to the other quarters. Did PoF bring a number that is adequate for the release of a new MMORPG expansion?

    What do you think would they do instead of releasing Living World Season 4? It's been advertised to be a part of the expansion. If they don't release it or charge more money for it, people will leave the game even faster than you could imagine. You can't sell a product with a season pass and then fool the players by demanding more money a second time.

    Maybe you could think about the newly introduced RNG loot box mount sales as a part of "GW2 is struggling and especially if it's in financial trouble".

  • Ayumi Spender.1082Ayumi Spender.1082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm confused as the charts show that GW2 is doing well but the comments are seeing something bad.
    I'm puzzled here.

  • PopeUrban.2578PopeUrban.2578 Member ✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    On topic, I do believe Q4 will be important to lool at. Longterm revenue is of importance and arenanet has been selling more and more items via the gemstore as well as people being reluctant to purchase PoF an release (as well as its lower price tag compared to HoT). If the revenue remains stable, spikes become less important.

    I hope some time in the near future someone at Arenanet opens the subject of "free to play" and instead of finding ways to annoy their loyal customers (like with the mount skins) they find ways to convince free players to buy the game. That huge un-tapped potential is there, waiting to get some attention.
    Adding Gliding in Core Tyria, Mounts in Core Tyria, even the Halloween Labyrinth race that was only really doable on a Mount, are all ways to persuade the free players (or simple core game owners) to buy the expansion.
    According to an old report, when the game went free to play, the active population doubled, but what happened to all those players? Finding why and then "fixing" it if possible is the way to make huge amounts of money in my opinion, without upsetting the current/loyal players with bad RNG gem store deals.

    WaitWaitWait

    You think focusing more on free to play would result in LESS gem store annoyances?

    Dude. Free to play exists specifically to drive expansion sales. Expansions are a FRACTION of gem store sales already and exist primarily to lock the user in to a market for new things to buy skins for. Further depressing the income from expansions by continuing the trend of offering "free" content for the base level experience only INCREASES reliance on the gem store to turn NCsoft's profit. The expansions and "free" updates are already threadbare specifically to drive users to gem store purchases by deliberately creating very limited ingame rewards in comparison. GW2 expansions aren't making money because they're not designed to make the money. They're designed to create "release events" to pull players eyeballs back to the gem store to sell them more stuff.

    If they restructured the live events teams, scrapped living world, folded those content teams in to expansion teams, and scrapped all future gem store content while retaining what they already have, then they'd be making expansions with the intent of selling users a complete and compelling experience and charging full game price for them. They are not doing that. They're making exactly as much content and reward as is required to keep people from quitting the game in disgust specifically so that they continue to be exposed to the gem store.

    GW2 expansions sell poorly because they're not the primary revenue model, and thus, extremely lackluster in terms of the play/reward loop and content specifically to drive players to the gem store. The LS is specifically designed to drive itinerant players to log in during release windows... to get their eyes on the gem store sales that come with them. The currency exchange exists specifically to make players feel like they can "earn" gem store rewards while actually providing players the ability to pass the buck to someone else while requiring them to remain engaged so that they'll hopefully get sick of farming and buy their own gems.

    Free to play is not the answer if you're looking for LESS emphasis on the gem store. The gem store is already where those profits are coming from, is the exact reason why the chief complaint of both expansions is "where's the content?", is the exact reason they were willing to offer a deeper expansion than HoT for less money, and is the exact reason why they are continually testing the waters with more and more customer unfriendly pricing. First it was Black Lion Chests, then lazy fire armor reskins, then nerfing key farming, then account bound BLC skins, then "bundles" that force you to buy stuff you don't want to get the thing you do, and finally the mount tickets.

    This is not a sudden heel turn. Anet under NCSoft's direction has been repeatedly inching in to ever more customer unfriendly practices just to see exactly how far they could push the player base in terms of gem store exploitation. Attempting to further increase reliance on the gem store can ONLY result in an even worse experience for players that choose not to engage with its "optional" content.

    All the perks, none of the responsibilities.
    PopeUrban - The Papacy [POPE]
    Dude in Charge, Chief Financier, and Cave-Polisher
    It's really just a club for lazy people! Join today and get big-guild services with no-guild schedules!

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @PopeUrban.2578 said:
    GW2 expansions sell poorly because they're not the primary revenue model, and thus, extremely lackluster in terms of the play/reward loop and content specifically to drive players to the gem store. The LS is specifically designed to drive itinerant players to log in during release windows... to get their eyes on the gem store sales that come with them. The currency exchange exists specifically to make players feel like they can "earn" gem store rewards while actually providing players the ability to pass the buck to someone else while requiring them to remain engaged so that they'll hopefully get sick of farming and buy their own gems.

    If expansions sell poorly then it means less profit from the gem store too. Glider skins are pointless for those who don't have Heart of Thorns and Mounts skins are pointless for those who don't have Path of Fire. More players paying for the expansions = more money from the gem store.
    What they are doing now with the gem store policy is trying to milk more money out of those who already paid for the expansions. Instead I said to focus on turning more players paying customers, therefore more players get access to the gem store items for expansion-specific items = more profit for Anet.
    The more players buy Path of Fire, the more visibility to the Mount Adoption deal = more profits. And if there is a larger paying playerbase, then I hope the gem store deals will also be better, since they won't have to deal with fewer players and use RNG to get more money.

  • PopeUrban.2578PopeUrban.2578 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 9, 2017

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @PopeUrban.2578 said:
    GW2 expansions sell poorly because they're not the primary revenue model, and thus, extremely lackluster in terms of the play/reward loop and content specifically to drive players to the gem store. The LS is specifically designed to drive itinerant players to log in during release windows... to get their eyes on the gem store sales that come with them. The currency exchange exists specifically to make players feel like they can "earn" gem store rewards while actually providing players the ability to pass the buck to someone else while requiring them to remain engaged so that they'll hopefully get sick of farming and buy their own gems.

    If expansions sell poorly then it means less profit from the gem store too. Glider skins are pointless for those who don't have Heart of Thorns and Mounts skins are pointless for those who don't have Path of Fire. More players paying for the expansions = more money from the gem store.
    What they are doing now with the gem store policy is trying to milk more money out of those who already paid for the expansions. Instead I said to focus on turning more players paying customers, therefore more players get access to the gem store items for expansion-specific items = more profit for Anet.
    The more players buy Path of Fire, the more visibility to the Mount Adoption deal = more profits. And if there is a larger paying playerbase, then I hope the gem store deals will also be better, since they won't have to deal with fewer players and use RNG to get more money.

    Alternate idea:

    Take all those people working on gem store content and "free" updates. Fold them in to one big team tasked with making one cohesive product. Sell the product for full price with confidence because its worth the money and capable of keeping your player base consistently engaged long enough to sell them another expansion. Let the free players see that they're getting great value for the single purchase price of expansions without being nickel and dimed or forced to farm so that someone else can be nickel and dimed. Explain to shareholders that when you actually focus on making a higher quality product that serves the customer's needs it results in positive buzz and free press that reduces your required marketing budget. Explain to them that exploiting your customers by deliberately selling them disappointment is only effective in the short term and results in high player churn that in turn makes it very difficult to acquire new customers because of negative word of mouth.

    Or hey just build them a time machine and let them talk to Anets founders about why they left their jobs to create GW1 in the first place, and remind them how successful it was using exactly that business model before they started exploring microtransactions.

    All the perks, none of the responsibilities.
    PopeUrban - The Papacy [POPE]
    Dude in Charge, Chief Financier, and Cave-Polisher
    It's really just a club for lazy people! Join today and get big-guild services with no-guild schedules!

  • Despond.2174Despond.2174 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 9, 2017

    GW2 has to be doing well. It's in the top 3 most populated MMOs and I basically pay a sub with the gem support I give and every second person I see/know is always buying gems with cash @ the store. I mean I'd ideally prefer a sub system for GW2, it would probably end up being cheaper for me lol. :)

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It's in the top 3 most populated MMOs

    How do you know this? We don't know how many active players play GW2.

  • Random banner with "Buy PoF" is good if people know what it is. I doubt anyone gonna do research about every popup that is probably blocked by the ad block in the first place.
    4 raid wings and 3 fractals in 2 years. 1 dungeon in 5 years. All this endgame.

    ...and all the end game, that was there from the beginning..and all the fractals..marionette/LW..DT/SW..all of HoT..and some of PoF
    too much special content..too little bread&butter content..AKA hearts
    they are starting to change that, but what good is a casual heart, if its gated behind hard content?
    the casual will prolly ragequit before reaching it, and the hardcores will do it blindfolded anyway
    they always had trouble with the pacing, right from the huge miniboss at the end of the tutorial
    no ad is better (or worse) , than word of mouth, that is why the expansions are struggling
    people can play the best parts for free..why would they pay for something of lesser quality?

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    people can play the best parts for free..why would they pay for something of lesser quality?

    Or they get bored with the parts they have access to and leave the game in disgust.
    There are two sides to this coin, you say core tyria is the best parts, I say it's the worst parts.

  • Griever.8150Griever.8150 Member ✭✭✭

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    this doesnt look good at all, roughly on par with older games, and outperformed grossly by B&S
    i have tried AION , that game is nowhere near the quality of GW2
    im quite baffled by this..what did Anet spend all those money on?

    Correct me if im wrong but im fairly sure both Aion and B&S are NCsoft's full properties while they only publish GW2, so they only recieve a certain percentage of its income (probably around 20%).

  • Inculpatus cedo.9234Inculpatus cedo.9234 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 9, 2017

    @Griever.8150 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    this doesnt look good at all, roughly on par with older games, and outperformed grossly by B&S
    i have tried AION , that game is nowhere near the quality of GW2
    im quite baffled by this..what did Anet spend all those money on?

    Correct me if im wrong but im fairly sure both Aion and B&S are NCsoft's full properties while they only publish GW2, so they only recieve a certain percentage of its income (probably around 20%).

    ArenaNet is a wholly-owned subsidiary of NCSoft (West, I believe), so I'm guessing that can receive any percentage of its income they desire, whether that be 5%, 20%, 50% or whatever..

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    On topic, I do believe Q4 will be important to lool at. Longterm revenue is of importance and arenanet has been selling more and more items via the gemstore as well as people being reluctant to purchase PoF an release (as well as its lower price tag compared to HoT). If the revenue remains stable, spikes become less important.

    I hope some time in the near future someone at Arenanet opens the subject of "free to play" and instead of finding ways to annoy their loyal customers (like with the mount skins) they find ways to convince free players to buy the game. That huge un-tapped potential is there, waiting to get some attention.
    Adding Gliding in Core Tyria, Mounts in Core Tyria, even the Halloween Labyrinth race that was only really doable on a Mount, are all ways to persuade the free players (or simple core game owners) to buy the expansion.
    According to an old report, when the game went free to play, the active population doubled, but what happened to all those players? Finding why and then "fixing" it if possible is the way to make huge amounts of money in my opinion, without upsetting the current/loyal players with bad RNG gem store deals.

    So basically by giving F2P players everything they would get in the expansion in the core game, they would want to purchase the expansion? How would that work

  • feroxeu.7416feroxeu.7416 Member ✭✭
    edited November 9, 2017

    @Nejul.8415 said:
    This can't be right. Gw2 is the best mmo out there.

    guild wars 2 is not the best mmo out there. Personally, I prefer 2 others over guildwars 2 atm.

<134
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