We need to eliminate supply wasting/trolling please

I would like to propose removing the wxp AND participation (for pips) gain from using supply to repair walls and doors. Why? because there have been enough instances where supplies have been drained/wasted for personal gain, and it hurts those defending. It's been long enough, so please do something to remedy this long standing issue.

Rather than entirely removing participation and WXP from repairing, just put it on a diminishing return that resets every 2nd tick. That way you still get credit for performing a needed repair, but you need to actually go do other stuff if you want to keep participation up.

@Optimator.3589 said:Rather than entirely removing participation and WXP from repairing, just put it on a diminishing return that resets every 2nd tick. That way you still get credit for performing a needed repair, but you need to actually go do other stuff if you want to keep participation up.

I feel we need to take a hard stance. The rewards for successfully defending are good enough. You get wxp and participation, and your team gets to keep the objective.

For those of us who defend the home BL it is nice to get a wee bit of participation and wxp for repairing. Frequently the zerg runs off without bothering to fix the walls or gates and the scouts are left with the chore of managing repairs and supplies. I don't know how things go on the OP's server, but I see no reason to change this.

If you remove participation and WXP, expect to find people stop repairing after the end of zerg-fest defense. People are going to be reluctant to let their participation decay to get supply, head to the broken structure, repair, and resupply.

I'd rather have the annoyance of running lower on supply because people aren't paying attention than the heartbreak of seeing a gate never repaired past 20% because everyone wants to stay on tag to keep gaining pips and all the other rewards.

I don't mean to suggest, @Swagger.1459, that this isn't a problem; it absolutely is. I just think the cure would be worse than the disease.

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Optimator.3589 said:Rather than entirely removing participation and WXP from repairing, just put it on a diminishing return that resets every 2nd tick. That way you still get credit for performing a needed repair, but you need to actually go do other stuff if you want to keep participation up.

Indeed, if Anet removed the rewards while taking the structures... I would be fine as well.Other server is doing less ppt, and u gain more, that is a rewards as well. WvW needs less rewards, the rewards tracks are more than fine has rewards for that gamemode.Anet just need to introduce more 2 or 3 rewards tracks, one for disable for players who are not skirts and dont care about the reward spam, 1 to increase a bit wxp and probably rewards some extra 50 tickets (wich i forgot the name of the WvW ones for some gear).

Meanwhile remove the nodes as well, i would love that...

I don't have much WvW experience, so maybe I don't get it, but why is repairing a damaged wall/gate hurting the defense? Isn't it better if they get repaired? Or is supply better spent on other purposes? When I see damaged structures in our bases and no fight is going on I usually go and repair them. Is that wrong?

Repairing after the battle is fine, or even if you're buying time during the initial siege. The problem comes when people are throwing supply at a wall that is getting bot-trebed. That treb is nowhere close to being taken down and the bot player is just going to continuously hit the wall.

Ok I understand, thanks for clarifying!

@Klipso.8653 said:Repairing after the battle is fine, or even if you're buying time during the initial siege. The problem comes when people are throwing supply at a wall that is getting bot-trebed. That treb is nowhere close to being taken down and the bot player is just going to continuously hit the wall.

And the real issue is most comms/zergs are too lazy to try and take down the trebs - especially those hitting SM from keep, which can be removed with a quickly built ballista or two. Kill the treb, no more damage to wall, supply issue solved.

Repairing isn't the issue normally. Most people don't use up all the supply to repair a t3. In my experience, supply gets drained by tags porting multiple times to get +10 or siege griefer's building rams and trebuchet's.

I don't see an issue with defender's getting participation/wxp for repairing a wall.

@Klipso.8653 said:Repairing after the battle is fine, or even if you're buying time during the initial siege. The problem comes when people are throwing supply at a wall that is getting bot-trebed. That treb is nowhere close to being taken down and the bot player is just going to continuously hit the wall.

To be fair, even before there was participation, there have always been people who kept throwing supply at a wall, as if they could out-repair the damage from a Superior treb until the cows came home.

It's a bigger problem now, because there's participation & a little WXP associated with it. I suspect, however, it's not as big an issue as we perceive it to be.

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Klipso.8653 said:Repairing after the battle is fine, or even if you're buying time during the initial siege. The problem comes when people are throwing supply at a wall that is getting bot-trebed. That treb is nowhere close to being taken down and the bot player is just going to continuously hit the wall.

Well, when SMC (or any structure) is getting attacked and your supply is at 0, because 1 or 2 people are unnecessarily repairing outer walls for pip participation, it's problematic. 1 player alone can keep SMC at 0 supply, and that's an issue.

@Swagger.1459 said:Well, when SMC (or any structure) is getting attacked and your supply is at 0, because 1 or 2 people are unnecessarily repairing outer walls for pip participation, it's problematic. 1 player alone can keep SMC at 0 supply, and that's an issue.

Right, as I said earlier, I agree that there's an issue. I'm just not convinced that (a) it's as big an issue as we perceive it to be and (b) that the proposed cure isn't worse than the disease.

As long as there are rewards, there are always going to be some perverse incentives.

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:Well, when SMC (or any structure) is getting attacked and your supply is at 0, because 1 or 2 people are unnecessarily repairing outer walls for pip participation, it's problematic. 1 player alone can keep SMC at 0 supply, and that's an issue.

Would you consider losing an objective due to lack of supply to properly defend it ok?

The cure only removes wxp and pip participation from repairing. There are still a plethora of ways to earn wxp and pip participation.

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:Well, when SMC (or any structure) is getting attacked and your supply is at 0, because 1 or 2 people are unnecessarily repairing outer walls for pip participation, it's problematic. 1 player alone can keep SMC at 0 supply, and that's an issue.

Of course losing an objective due to wasted supply is annoying, but so is losing an objective due to people failing to tick siege or repair the structure. People repair structures more efficiently now than before, in part because their tick/tock is preserved. People don't refresh siege because it takes time away from everything else.

Further, it's easy to remember every case of someone pointlessly repairing a wall recently, but it's hard to know if they are doing it to refresh tick or if they simply don't understand the strategic issues involved.

As a case in point, I was the only one inside a structure this week when the wall was about to come down. There were two enemy forces, one directly outside (without siege) and one defending the trebs. I repaired the wall, despite the ongoing damage, because I hoped our lesser forces could remove the trebs quickly, to eliminate that threat, and then return to defend the structure against the nearby force. The tower would certainly have fallen otherwise, because our defense team was too small to be effective in both locations. But clearly, anyone watching me without being aware of the enemy locations would have seen me "wasting supply."

The point is that neither you nor I know how often people are wasting supply to preserve tick, versus wasting it due to misunderstanding strategy, versus using it tactically to buy a little more time.

Or as I said above: I agree it's a problem. I'm not sure it's as big a problem as it appears and I am not sure that the solution is going to improve the overall situation.

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:Well, when SMC (or any structure) is getting attacked and your supply is at 0, because 1 or 2 people are unnecessarily repairing outer walls for pip participation, it's problematic. 1 player alone can keep SMC at 0 supply, and that's an issue.

I can’t even count how many times the same players have wasted supply repairing SMC outer walls getting trebbed, while you have other players trying to defend camps and escort supply dolyaks to increase SMC supply.

1 person can single handedly drain supply from an objective, and that hurts the rest of the players on the map trying to defend a structure. And that 1 person is only making sure to keep their pip participation up for rewards, while making it harder for other players to keep that structure. That’s an issue.

Players get participation from successfully defending a structure. Keeping the structure puts points on the board for the team. There are tons of other activities to earn wxp and participation, so it’s not like some major personal punishment, it only disincentives supply trolling.

I'd rather them dump supply into a wall than to give an objective with max supply.

It seems this is a SMC issue for the OP. Why change a mechanic because of SMC? As stated above, players will still drain supply for various reasons. I know that is annoying, but it doesn't justify the proposed changes.

I think that giving players a timer that they can only take supply only every 30 second would be a good plan. Of course we still have to teach people how to defend and use supply effectively.

100 supply in a tower by myself against 20 at the gate and 10 mins claim + 3 more mins for sabatage depot. 100 supply for the enemy if capped, that's a golem!

Meh, build a treb quickly, blow the supply! Sometimes supply trolling is useful. Don't suggest a way to fix one problem that creates another one in its place.

@HazyDaisy.4107 said:100 supply in a tower by myself against 20 at the gate and 10 mins claim + 3 more mins for sabatage depot. 100 supply for the enemy if capped, that's a golem!

Meh, build a treb quickly, blow the supply! Sometimes supply trolling is useful. Don't suggest a way to fix one problem that creates another one in its place.

I’m talking about a very specific scenario, that’s being abused for pip participation, that’s not “useful”. Thanks for the input though.

@Swagger.1459 said:

@HazyDaisy.4107 said:100 supply in a tower by myself against 20 at the gate and 10 mins claim + 3 more mins for sabatage depot. 100 supply for the enemy if capped, that's a golem!

Meh, build a treb quickly, blow the supply! Sometimes supply trolling is useful. Don't suggest a way to fix one problem that creates another one in its place.

Oh you're welcome, I was responding to the guy above me though that suggested 30 sec cool down on supply acquisition.

@Blodeuyn.2751 said:It seems this is a SMC issue for the OP. Why change a mechanic because of SMC? As stated above, players will still drain supply for various reasons. I know that is annoying, but it doesn't justify the proposed changes.

This is very true.

You have the trebbers who are getting pips everytime they hit the wall, and the wall repairers who get pips everytime they repair. It's a good symbiotic relationship.