Do you think anet can handle 9 more elites?

I believe that anet cannot hope to create 9 new mechanics=elites, they're currently struggling to balance 9 core specs + 2elites each...a third one would simply destroy any resemblance of sanity.

The way the game is designed, it forces a given set of roles, a limited number of roles and each one of them is being contested at the same time by several specs. We have : support - frontline - bruiser and artillery ...4 roles for 27 possible specs, the situation is simply not sustainable.

Both the playerbase and anet should forget the idea of having 9 new mechanics for every expansion, instead it would be wise to simply add a new weapon set to existing elites : Ex give axe to scrapper , revisit some traits and create a new playstyle. Do you agree?

Never ask two questions with a differing answer in the same poll.ArenaNet will never be able to balance 9 more specs, the overlap is already too much.I'd be happy with them reworking old weapons rather than creating new.

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:Never ask two questions with a differing answer in the same poll.ArenaNet will never be able to balance 9 more specs, the overlap is already too much.I'd be happy with them reworking old weapons rather than creating new.

yes the structure of the poll is quite wrong, I will just delete the second question.It'd be great if this thread pick up enough interest, you could make a case for anet

The poll is unclear because it appears as though two contrary questions are asked, answering yes for the first would mean no for the second.

I have mixed feelings. They did some great things with balance just before PoF released, but it felt really weird it took that long to achieve and then fall apart so quickly with the expansion release. So, to me, there is a record they can get the right things done, but the path they take feels odd and roundabout, like something is missing on execution.

That said, I wonder if the way forward is focusing on core identity. Necro, Thief, and Mesmer all bring something characteristically unique and useful to the table such that they can be effectively utilized regardless of exact balance, expansion, or elite spec (give or take a little), even if they fall a touch out of favor. If they could better identify and execute on something like this for each profession, then we might get somewhere.

@Allarius.5670 said:The poll is unclear because it appears as though two contrary questions are asked, answering yes for the first would mean no for the second.

I have mixed feelings. They did some great things with balance just before PoF released, but it felt really weird it took that long to achieve and then fall apart so quickly with the expansion release. So, to me, there is a record they can get the right things done, but the path they take feels odd and roundabout, like something is missing on execution.

That said, I wonder if the way forward is focusing on core identity. Necro, Thief, and Mesmer all bring something characteristically unique and useful to the table such that they can be effectively utilized regardless of exact balance, expansion, or elite spec (give or take a little), even if they fall a touch out of favor. If they could better identify and execute on something like this for each profession, then we might get somewhere.

Apologies for the unclear OP :-Yes : it means you're happy with having new weapons for each class linked to 9 new elites , an idea that I oppose because anet already struggle to keep up with 27 specs, with some completely fallen out of the game entirely-No : it means that you don't think anet can handle 9 new elites, they should instead revisit existing weapons or add new weapons to existing elites

No - Give every proffesion new weapon without elite spec demand but unlocked by expansion. Hero pointed hardly with some story for pve's to unlock it. Take a one xpac break, and make system in your balancing. No mindless touching on numbers. Core traits should be static and elite spec should be balanced around them (and creating aswell). Eat me, but if you touch on core trait scourge say for example: "nah, this is not problem, I will take this.." Reaper: " Okay, I will take scourge now" . - > can be used for every proffesion...

No they can't properly, but that won't stop them from releasing a new set of elite specs for a future expansion anyways, the question should be more about, how long can Anet add new specs until their balance team looks completely lost with all the professions, they are already so out of touch with Revs , who knows how much until it's with every class...

It depends on how you define 'handle'

If by handle you mean make a sufficient amount of new elite specs OP so it pushes out the old specs and people are forced to buy the expac or lose, then yes. They will handle it lovely.

I'm sure new elite specs will be wonderful for pve. But it will bring pvp further down the toilet. And we are already deep in doo doo.

I think their method of changing profession mechanics will just tarnish gameplay rapidly with each new elite spec. They should add skills/weapons/traits but keep the core mechanics, or maybe change minor things, like adding a new F5 shatter for mes and such.

Unless the balance team is expanded, I don't think they can handle balancing 9 new elite specs, unless they resign themselves to only ever have 3 elite specs per profession, which would mean they wouldn't have to maintain them while also creating new ones.

But mechanics wise I don't see anything stopping them from doing it. It seems impossible only because most of the current elite specs are still in a sort of limbo where they can do many things better than the core spec, instead of only a single role better than the core spec. If every elite spec were dialed back to ideal balance, then it wouldnt seem quite so hopeless.

as ori said. balance team has to be expanded. the balance team is not even able to balance the hot AND pof specs at the same time.

The balance team struggled handling the first nine elite specs, and it got even more out of hand with the second set. I have faith in the team to take balance in the right direction, but I think they need to focus on getting this trainwreck balanced before they try their hand with nine more specs.

I think they cannot balance it, but i believe they can have more elite specs. Honestly at this point, the biggest issue is conquest. As long as we have only 1 game mode there is always going to be specs over and under performing.

iWantMoreGameModes !!!!!!

They need a pre HoT patch, complete trait rework on all classes.

In the process they need to take the trait branch most associated with the core mechanic for each class and make it it's own elite spec. In doing this, they need to place all traits associated with the class mechanic, steal cooldowns, pet interaction, adrenaline/life force gain, virtues, and move it exclusively into the new core elite skill line. This allows them to be able to make completely new mechanics around elite specs for each class and balance them separately without having nerfs ripple throughout all other builds. It also will free them up to make way more interesting class mechanics instead of warriors always having adrenaline > burst skill. Or thieves always have a steal/like option, rangers always with pets, guardians with virtues, etc.

Each of the 4 baseline specializations should include 2 offensive and 2 defensive. If an elite is over-performing and needs to be tuned, they can look at the direct problem by addressing it's specific mechanic and trait interactions within the elite specialization line and make changes to it, without it affecting the other builds/elite specializations.

From there, they need to thematically examine each class and elite specialization, and come up with a clear vision for them.

They need to drastically reduce condition and boon bloat. Perhaps even combining certain conditions/boons to simplify the list.

They need to go through each skill group and make them be competitive choices between each other, instead of forcing nearly every class to run condi clear utilities and stun breaks only.

I'd skip adding a new elite spec for next expansion if they did this instead. I know they wont, but I feel a complete and total rework like this is what would be required to get a handle on each classes strengths and weaknesses and really get the game to be better balanced, rather then this meta juggle and power creep.

PS - I do think the large amount of nerfs going out this patch is a good direction though.

The elites that we have are already a mess. They need to get with the program before creating even more problems.

Yes but first they need to realise where they went right with the HoT specs and where they have gone wrong with the PoF specs, and those PoF specs need addressing. I would say two of the PoF specs just aren't healthy for sPvP and the rest still need toning down.

Necro got an even more immobile spec, with more AoE's and cleeve damage and some support. It's just not healthy for conquest and it doesn't belong there. What necro needed was more mobility, support and defensive skills. No counterplay, just rip boons and spew conditions, it's not fun to play with and it's not fun to play against. A lot of necro mains have realised this now and are going back to reaper and have openly said in the forums that scourge just isn't healthy for pvp.

Firebrand is a tank and a healer, again no counter play, it's not fun to play with and not fun to play against. It's an immobile class and has heavy tanking ability, it belongs in raids, but even there it doesn't fit in. What was great about heal ele was that it had counter play, it was a healer and not a tank, you had to be good and make use of your surroundings, it wasn't so forgiving like firebrand is, you actually got targeted and died in games.

Then you have the rest of the specs which are all just who can burst who the fastest. Back in the HoT meta I can remember you used to be able to actually have nice long duels and team fights, and your burst actually mattered. Things are just ridiculous now, composition has a much larger impact on games which speaks a thousand words. Sadly although people hate bunker builds, to an extent they are healthy for the game, not like firebrand and necro but more like weaver. Weaver is pretty much the only balanced class we have right now, but it's going to get stronger now as things get nerfed. The burst meta in pvp needs dealing with along with necro and firebrand. Some of these classes just work far to well with +1200 offensive amulets.

More elite specs can be done, but we need more real posts from high level PvP players to tell the balance team what needs to be done. We can't keep listening to crying posts from people who only play one class and wonder why they can't beat just one particular class. The recent patch was a bit of a joke imo, all I can see is that they went ham on warrior. IIRC they did to druid the same thing they did to warrior endure pain during HoT, reducing signet of stone duration by half and it's cooldown by half, which didn't work then and likely won't work now. It can be done but all the PoF specs need toning down massively.

At its core inception the idea of elite specs is not inherently bad and it would work, the problem is the implementation as well as how they come out with each expansion meaning they need constant changes.

Making one of your trait lines mandatory and regulating that line to have trade offs or disadvantages in order to get something was more prominent in some of PoF elite specs. Example: necro lost its DS second health bar but got AoE zone control and large amounts of barrier and support, the concept isn’t broken but the implementation has some ways to go and ANet has shown recently they’re making attempts to fix this. I would expect each class to have a damage, support and defensive elite spec at some point with revisions on the overlaps between them to make sure they are distinct. Core builds would essentially be middle ground jack of all trades master of none builds or niches.

However the other side of the coin is that it feels like there currently isn’t enough staff working on actively balancing the elite specs and the game in general or at least the procedure to do so takes so much time that changes aren’t happening frequently enough for many players. The answer isn’t a binary yes or no but I’m leaning more to yes because it will happen anyway.

they never proved they could handle the core classes... ;)

Of course they can manage it. They would just make the other two garbage. Do you see any reapers/berserkers/scrappers anymore?

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:Never ask two questions with a differing answer in the same poll.ArenaNet will never be able to balance 9 more specs, the overlap is already too much.I'd be happy with them reworking old weapons rather than creating new.

I agree with ArenaNet being Unable to balance 9 more specs...But there is an issue with reworking old weapons..(I also agree with this) but Warrior for example has a lot of weapons, engi has like 3 i think..Elite specs help to balance this out.I think what should be done, is add Elite specs until warrior get basically ALL weapons..then rework old ones into Elite specs.. so that each Profession will have a certain number of profession weapons, and lets say 5-6 weapons only usable trough Elite Spec..They should be careful with this tho.

Are they going to be fun and and interesting? Yes. Are going to be balanced? Unlikely. Though, I would argue that there reason why things are unbalanced has little to do with the number of elites and much to do with game breaking designs that Anet is too arogant to admit they do not work.

Old example was CC on traps for DH. It took over a year to remove the daze. We have the same issue with SB, scourge, holo, renegade and mirage. Anet is just too damn proud to admit that some of the designs are broken (too weak or too strong). Just look at the renegade changes. They seem to be pulled by random number generator. I do not know how many patches it will take to understand the issue has nothing to with summons energy costs.