Celestial Stats — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Celestial Stats

Are celestial stats viable for an ele? I'm using them on sword weaver, just crafted an ascended set. I'm looking to make my way to tier 4 fractals. I know it's not optimal dps, but is it viable?

Comments

  • calb.3128calb.3128 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 20, 2018

    It's viable in the way that pretty much every armour set is viable (but as you raised, not optimal). Those stats have historically been useful in game modes where you would require lots of flexibility, but for T4 you're going to take a significant hit unless you know what your main selling point is. If you're there for DPS, there are better armour sets. If you're there for healing or support, again there are better armour sets. By fudging it and sitting in the middle, an awful lot of stats will go unused.

    On the flip side, if you're more comfortable playing with those stats and can pull your weight, who am I to judge? :3

  • starlinvf.1358starlinvf.1358 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 20, 2018

    Celes is generally viable on hybrid support classes, which includes Ele, Guardian, Engineer, and specifically Scourge. However, you're gonna run into a problem with DPS verses support, since normally Cele Ele runs half support, but Sw Weaver doesn't do group support outside of what Dagger or Focus bring at face value. You have really good self sustain for dueling, but outside of WvW/PvP, that damage trade off with Cele is extremely hard to justify if you aren't also providing a support function. That makes this specific combination of Cele and Sword Weaver a weird combo for high end fractals, since you're not capable of strong burst healing.

    If you had to, I would suggest running the Power Swd Weaver fractal build, and sub in Cele Amulet and Rings for added durability, and maybe consider Assassins Earrings to recoup precision. You can still run Scholar Runes in the armor set, and Just carry around an Alt set of Zerk Trinkets (Ring/amulet) to go full Power Weaver when desired. I'm terrible at armor math, but I estimate you're trading 12% of your damage potential for a roughly 8-10% damage reduction plus an extra 2k health. The extra healing is minor (barely +200 on big healing), and the extra condition damage isn't even worth nothing.

    There is very little incentive to spec any more then that, since Weaver healing is heavily loaded into the base values. If you really do wanna go the Full Cele route, you want to run the Roaming weaver build, since its built around Water and Condition removal. Your burst healing is still on the weak side, but between water skills and evasive arcana, your sustained healing is at least tangible. Self Sustain is also incredibly high. However, you also become an Aggro magnet between the toughness and close proximity you have to keep to the fight.

    https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Weaver_-Power_Sword
    https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Weaver
    -_Celestial_Roamer

    (for stat comparisions)
    (Pwr/half-cele/full-cele)
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAsYmk4iFBA7eVPrv1BBgCwBQ4SeBSBA-jFBXgAh6B6V/BY/R53jSQSBExYA-w
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAsYnUMANNglMAG5C8RgFBALIAUAOA3r6Z9tW4SeBSBA-jlBXgANKx6V/BY/hHlgh6BcUeQKgIGDA-w
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAsInMIClMgtMAONgFWArYDk/qAEJgDQA4eLHmLzA-jBhagAAK/G1DgqE0X9HA-e

  • I strongly discourage you from running celestial in T4 Fractals for a DPS role. If you have trouble surviving, work on learning the mechanics better or doing better on your footwork (being at the right place). Celestial is a major reduction in offensive stats. While of course it's true that a live wet noodle does more damage than a dead glass cannon, neither is something that other PUGs want to see in challenging, instanced content.

    If you really feel that you need some extra defense while working on mechanics/footwork, then swap a few trinkets (as few as possible). Technically, the "optimal" choice is using the lesser pieces of armor, but then you'd have to spend extra on runes, whereas trinkets are easily replaced through LS3 maps (and the infusions can be recovered for a modest cost using the infusion extractors). So for Sword Weaver, for example: Zerk armor + scholar runes (or strength, if you're not at 90% HP often), zerk weapons, zerk trinks except maybe Valk or Soldier accessories.

    "With great power comes not-so-great utility bills."

  • @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    I strongly discourage you from running celestial in T4 Fractals for a DPS role. If you have trouble surviving, work on learning the mechanics better or doing better on your footwork (being at the right place). Celestial is a major reduction in offensive stats. While of course it's true that a live wet noodle does more damage than a dead glass cannon, neither is something that other PUGs want to see in challenging, instanced content.

    If you really feel that you need some extra defense while working on mechanics/footwork, then swap a few trinkets (as few as possible). Technically, the "optimal" choice is using the lesser pieces of armor, but then you'd have to spend extra on runes, whereas trinkets are easily replaced through LS3 maps (and the infusions can be recovered for a modest cost using the infusion extractors). So for Sword Weaver, for example: Zerk armor + scholar runes (or strength, if you're not at 90% HP often), zerk weapons, zerk trinks except maybe Valk or Soldier accessories.

    Ok, all makes sense, thanks for the advice. However, I don't want to do power sword. I want to do hybrid or condition, hence why I took celestial, but I get the dps loss. What stats would you use in that case? Vipers?

  • @Wentworth.6901 said:
    Ok, all makes sense, thanks for the advice. However, I don't want to do power sword. I want to do hybrid or condition, hence why I took celestial, but I get the dps loss. What stats would you use in that case? Vipers?

    As a generic rule of thumb, rephrase the question:

    • Power: why wouldn't you take Berserker's prefix plus Scholars suffix?
    • Condi: why wouldn't you take Viper's gear plus (most of the time) Renegade runes? (Trapper + Nightmare for some)

    Similarly, it's worth asking, "why not run one of the many builds recommended by Snow Crows, Discretize, or MetaBattle?


    For any exception (for which there are plenty), there's always a good reason; if you can't think of it, then those are always good or great choices. (With more experience, some of the reasons become obvious and some are obvious in hindsight, after someone mentions the idea.)

    One common exception: budget. Strength runes are a cheaper|weaker version of Scholar's (although the price difference is minor these days) or when people are in a situation in which they know their health is less than 90% too often. Similarly, Rabid is often a decent budget option for exotic gear, while people are saving up to finish an ascended Viper's set.

    "With great power comes not-so-great utility bills."

  • So I've found all this very convincing, thanks everyone. I'm considering just crafting some vipers insignias and changing the stats, but I have some reservations I want to ask about.

    First, I'm concerned about survivability. I've got survival down with ranged weapons as a glass cannon, but sword is a different story. I'm also wondering if celestial would be worth keeping for open world solo stuff.

    Second, I also want to play tempest, and I feel like celestial could be good for a support build that can also do some dps. Is it worth keeping for this?

    Of course I could just get more ascended sets, but that's hard and time consuming. I'll eventually have two, one power one condition, but that'll probably be awhile, and if I wanted celestial that'd be a third set. So given all this, is it worth keeping the celestial stats or should I just stat change it?

    I also have a mesmer I'm leveling I plan to use the armor with, and may use it for a necro I have, since I can share the armor between them.

  • Partial celestial is probably most applicable to ele of all the classes since you can use/get good benefit from/need all the stats. For open world pve, or solo story instances, or WvW roaming. Full celestial even in these cases is probably a bit too much slanted towards defensive gearing however. Full will probably give you a bit too much vit/condi when you want more power/healing power depending on the situation. Definitely don't use celestial in group content, especially if you have someone else playing a dedicated support role, as it is a very large dps compared to a full condi or power focused setup.

  • @Wentworth.6901 said:

    First, I'm concerned about survivability. I've got survival down with ranged weapons as a glass cannon, but sword is a different story. I'm also wondering if celestial would be worth keeping for open world solo stuff.

    In my opinion, no.

    • You're better off being glassier and learning how to survive like that (swapping trinkets only if you need some more durability temporarily).
    • Celestial hits weakly, especially for condi builds.

    I personally don't think it's trash. However, for the effort, it's just as easy to setup a Viper's build and easier to setup Berserker's. And both are much, much more fun to play, once you get used to active defense rather than passive.
    (And again: it's easier to learn how to do that when you're glass.)

    Second, I also want to play tempest, and I feel like celestial could be good for a support build that can also do some dps. Is it worth keeping for this?

    Generally, even support builds tend to be better specializing in a type of support than trying to be jack|jill of all trades (master of none).

    The one place that I think Celestial sometimes shines is WvW. There are builds now (and have been others in the past) that make use of multiple stats. Durability is important because against human opponents, glass is too brittle.

    Of course I could just get more ascended sets, but that's hard and time consuming. I'll eventually have two, one power one condition, but that'll probably be awhile, and if I wanted celestial that'd be a third set. So given all this, is it worth keeping the celestial stats or should I just stat change it?

    If you have two ascended sets, I'd want one to be Viper's + Renegade and the other Zerk + Scholar's (or Strength). If you have three already made, sure, hold on to celestial for now.

    Or if you have just two sets now and no immediate plans for the second, then leaving one celestial while making the other Viper's is okay, too. Again, I encourage you to drop yourself in the deep-end with glass, even at melee range.

    "With great power comes not-so-great utility bills."

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭
    edited July 22, 2018

    I really don't think you'll see full cele much. In PvP the ele amulet was used a lot, it has fallen out of favor due to the 4 stat amulets.

  • @Wentworth.6901 said:
    First, I'm concerned about survivability. I've got survival down with ranged weapons as a glass cannon, but sword is a different story. I'm also wondering if celestial would be worth keeping for open world solo stuff.

    I'd strongly advise against Celestial Sword Weaver for open world and story solo stuff. I tried it the first time I played through PoF, since I had Celestial gear for Tempest and the Weaver's Sword let me choose Celestial stats so I figured it might be a reasonable choice. I was wrong! My damage was horribly low, and the extra survivability wasn't enough to actually help me survive through the longer fights.

    As an example of how badly it can go: some chests in PoF spawn enemies who interrupt you before you can finish opening them. With Celestial Weaver, by the time I'd killed those enemies and went to open the chest again, the respawn timer had reset so they respawned again.

    I've changed to using a combination of Berserker and Marauder gear now, and suddenly everything is much easier.

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    • Condi: why wouldn't you take Viper's gear plus (most of the time) Renegade runes? (Trapper + Nightmare for some)

    Interesting, Renegade runes give Condition Damage and Ferocity, which seems like a weird combination. Is it really better than Berserker runes?

  • @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    • Condi: why wouldn't you take Viper's gear plus (most of the time) Renegade runes? (Trapper + Nightmare for some)

    @Tommo Chocolate.5870 said:
    Interesting, Renegade runes give Condition Damage and Ferocity, which seems like a weird combination. Is it really better than Berserker runes?

    Sure, zerker's runes can be a good choice, depending on build and team comp.
    The point I was trying to make is that there's a reason certain combinations are meta. If there's a good reason to deviate, by all means, don't follow the meta blindly. But in the absence of a specific reason, remember the reason these builds are popular: because they are extremely efficient at what they do (terms & conditions apply, of course).

    "With great power comes not-so-great utility bills."

  • Celestial always been strong on elementalist. ELe got nerfed dozens of times cause of celestial. Then they removed Celestial from the game (in spvp) and added it again with lower stats.

    SO basically : it's super good in pvp perspective like WVW (less but fine in spvp) and great for openworld. Not good for game mode such as raids and fractals.

  • Thanks everyone! I'll be changing the stats to vipers, already crafted 4 insignias yesterday (istan farm is great) so it won't take too long :) just got to grab the trinkets then, but living world makes that easy too. At least I only have to change the stats instead of crafting another ascended set! I'll be keeping the celestial trinkets for when I'm doing solo content probably, and use the vipers in fractals.

  • Great, @Wentworth.6901. Once you've had a chance to practice, let us know how it works out for you.

    (And if you have trouble staying alive while glassier, don't hesitate to come back to ask for rotation/style/technique suggestions to help you make the transition.)

    "With great power comes not-so-great utility bills."

  • TheQuickFox.3826TheQuickFox.3826 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I like Celestial in theory, as they clearly give the most attribute points (In PvE/WvW, not PvP) overall, and all attributes get good use on the Elementalist.

    But in practice this it not so straightforward. If you can stay alive with offensive stats like Berserkers: Go for these instead. The defensive stats are mostly going to waste on you. And if you die a lot, you may still die a lot under Celestial stats. While the extra vitality, healing and toughness gives real improvements to survivability, damage is very strong in the game, both with some PvE bosses as WvW players, and the extra defensive stats that Cele gives you is not enough to prevent most deaths here.

    I think Cele is a nice starting point, you can go from there and add pieces with other, more focused stats whenever you like. In the end, stats should fit your playing style, not the other way around.

    Ascalon Will Prevail!

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  • I was actually thinking about trying cele in raids. The theory is that most raid bosses don't continuisly deal huge amounts of damage, but rather have 1 or 2 attacks that need to be healed up again and are pretty docile the rest of the time. A cele would be able to deal damage to a certain degree and switch to water for healing only when needed.

    Though I guess as long as the game favors 2 druids, all other healers will continue to be pushed aside.

    No skin should be exclusive to gem-store rng boxes.
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  • starlinvf.1358starlinvf.1358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BunjiKugashira.9754 said:
    I was actually thinking about trying cele in raids. The theory is that most raid bosses don't continuisly deal huge amounts of damage, but rather have 1 or 2 attacks that need to be healed up again and are pretty docile the rest of the time. A cele would be able to deal damage to a certain degree and switch to water for healing only when needed.

    Though I guess as long as the game favors 2 druids, all other healers will continue to be pushed aside.

    But theres flaw there...... some of the bosses argo on toughness. So by doing so, you're essentially taking the tank role in several fights, and not just the healer role.

    Thinking about it.... I propose we call the 2 Chrono/1 Druid comp the GW2 Holy Trinity.

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