There are so many things wrong with Hammer (not just for Guardian, but I digress).

1. The cooldowns are too long. Not to mention they have quite a steep jump from 5 -> 18 -> 40 seconds.
2. The damage coefficients are too weak, especially considering there are only two real damage skills in the kit.
3. Some of the effects are redundent or counter-intuitive. Immobilize, Launch, and unleavable arena all on the same weapon? It feels like they pulled the effects out of a hat.
4. The 'Glacial Heart' trait is poorly designed.

Suggestions for improvement:

• Hammer Swing Combo:

  • Buff damage of Hammer Swing & Hammer Bash by 25%
  • Buff impact damage of Symbol of Protection by 40%

• Mighty Blow:

  • Buff damage of Mighty Blow by 40%
  • Give it 600 range
  • Make it a ground-target skill
  • Finisher is no longer Blast but Leap

• Banish & Zealot's Embrace:

  • Merge both skills into one that uses launch
  • Banish: Send a wave toward your foes that launches them with a powerful smash
  • Range 1200, damage of Banish, 30s cooldown, num targets = 5
  • Uses the same style of aim pattern as Deflecting Shot in the Longbow kit
  • This is now the #5 skill instead of the #3/4

• Ring of Warding

  • Is now the #4 skill, cooldown is reduced to 22 seconds
  • Cast time is reduced to 1/4 second, duration is reduced to 3 seconds
  • Enemies that try to leave the circle (voluntarily or otherwise!) are knocked down

• New #3 skill: Defy

  • Defy: Counter the next attack within 3 seconds, damaging and dazing enemies in front of you while gaining Aegis (5s)
  • 12s cooldown

• Replacement for Glacial Heart trait: Righteous Offense

  • Slaying enemies while wielding a Greathammer breaks movement impairment effects, grants Superspeed/Quickness (3s) and refreshes the cooldown on Mighty Blow.

I was going for a more cohesive kit - where the skills are both more interesting to use, as well as connected to each other in some way. I also wanted to bake in shorter cooldowns into the skills themselves, that way the Hammer trait could be reserved for interesting effects (such as ROffense, which turns you into Hammer Pacman!) Hammer is probably thematically one of my favorite weapons in the game - but every class that can use them has implemented them rather poorly.

Anyways, thanks for reading!

have you thought about all gamemodes?

the dmg-increase alone is huuuuuge. until greatsword got buffed, the hammer was the weapon to go and did good dps.so 25% on the symbol extra would be too much, no? (think about the symbol traits!)same for mighty blow. 40% increase? pve only pls - if ever. because in wvw and pvp mighty blow can already crit for insane amounts of damage adding any more is ... eh idk. i personally dont want another oneshot skill in the game.but i guess i could live with a dmg split for pve, to make rotations more interesting.

the leap on mighty blow. guardian has that leap on greatsword already.

with these suggestion alone you make greatsword kind of obsolete.because with the protection field and increased damage hammer would be n1 for pve again and greatsword wouldnt see much use (protection, heal and only slightly lower dps than GS overweights the raw dps of GS). edit: just went to the golem to test. 25% isnt as bad as i thought. its okay, brings it up to a level where it is a good chunk below GS but brings utility in form of prot and heals.with the leap and increased dmg on mighty blow AND the reduced cd on ring of warding, it would be the better/only pick for pvp/wvw?in general the nature of the hammer is cc/utility and it is working okay in that field.i would personally aim for small changes like a slightly faster (after)cast on aa3, ring of warding and mighty blow (to make less staionary fights more enjoyable) - and let both weapons (GS and hammer) have their own field... than streamlining them. a little (!) dps increase is appreciated though

more detail about skill 3, 4 and 5. they do have their uses - maybe i have adjusted to them too much over the years , but the modes i use them in (wvw mainly), they make perfectly sense. (tbf the hammer is left behind a bit since firebrands are on the field)banishing someone, nailing them down afterwards with zealot's embrace, to catch up again, and mighty blow them, is super legit.another way is to use zealot's embrace, ring of warding and then banish. it comes down to combining them in the right situation.the only thing that i feel the hammer does bad here is the animation speed/aftercast of mighty blow, ring of warding - and the projectile nature of zealot's embrace.the cooldowns feel good aswell, because ring of warding is a very strong cc, if you can use it in chokes or nail it on someone quick enough. but as i said, i adjusted to the weapon over the past six years pretty much and i think it is a solid pick as it is.

anyway, enough criticism:

a ranged cc as proposed sounds interesting! i think of the hammer 3 of warrior with a cc build in.

i can see the new skill 3 work too (wvw again - atm many FB run mace/xshield. with aegis available on hammer, hammer could be an even better alternative)

replacing glacial heart or improving glacial heart is a thing too.as this trait is now, it is not worth a pick really, the other traits feel more solid. shifting the trait in another traitline could be a way to improve it too.

I dunno ... a paperweight is pretty heavy too.

Besides the massive dps increase I don't see how these traits improved the hammer?

1. In terms of PVE: your new changes just reinforce the old problems hammer already had, which is to always rely on auto-attacks/symbols and be penalized if you do anything else. The changes to MB/Banish/RoW and the new skill Defy give Guardians almost nothing new for PVE. Glacial Heart only becomes useful in open world PVE and worthless in all other endeavors.

2. In terms of PVP/WvW, the only place hammer still sees use: I would much rather have a 5s ward on a long cooldown then a short one on a less, especially in WvW. The changes to MB seem far too OP since it already has scary burst potential when combined with the focus 5 skill. In terms of Defy, it is an interesting skill but doesn't address hammers weakness, that after its initial burst (usually set-up with Judges Intervention), targets can easily disengage. Your new Zealot's Embrace is more powerful in terms of CC, but has the same effectiveness as the old ZE when it comes to targets fleeing and dodging.

Things I'm in favor of: Faster auto-attack chain with rebalanced symbol to compensate. Slightly quicker Banish and RoW cast times. Zealot's Embrace redesigned to give cripple or more reliable CC to stay on target. Glacial Heart redesign to augment the hammer and give it PVE viability outside of auto attack spam.

@LoreChief.8391 said:There are so many things wrong with Hammer (not just for Guardian, but I digress).

1. The cooldowns are too long. Not to mention they have quite a steep jump from 5 -> 18 -> 40 seconds.
2. The damage coefficients are too weak, especially considering there are only two real damage skills in the kit.
3. Some of the effects are redundent or counter-intuitive. Immobilize, Launch, and unleavable arena all on the same weapon? It feels like they pulled the effects out of a hat.
4. The 'Glacial Heart' trait is poorly designed.

Suggestions for improvement:

• Hammer Swing Combo:

  • Buff damage of Hammer Swing & Hammer Bash by 25%
  • Buff impact damage of Symbol of Protection by 40%

• Mighty Blow:

  • Buff damage of Mighty Blow by 40%
  • Give it 600 range
  • Make it a ground-target skill
  • Finisher is no longer Blast but Leap

• Banish & Zealot's Embrace:

  • Merge both skills into one that uses launch
  • Banish: Send a wave toward your foes that launches them with a powerful smash
  • Range 1200, damage of Banish, 30s cooldown, num targets = 5
  • Uses the same style of aim pattern as Deflecting Shot in the Longbow kit
  • This is now the #5 skill instead of the #3/4

• Ring of Warding

  • Is now the #4 skill, cooldown is reduced to 22 seconds
  • Cast time is reduced to 1/4 second, duration is reduced to 3 seconds
  • Enemies that try to leave the circle (voluntarily or otherwise!) are knocked down

• New #3 skill: Defy

  • Defy: Counter the next attack within 3 seconds, damaging and dazing enemies in front of you while gaining Aegis (5s)
  • 12s cooldown

• Replacement for Glacial Heart trait: Righteous Offense

  • Slaying enemies while wielding a Greathammer breaks movement impairment effects, grants Superspeed/Quickness (3s) and refreshes the cooldown on Mighty Blow.

I was going for a more cohesive kit - where the skills are both more interesting to use, as well as connected to each other in some way. I also wanted to bake in shorter cooldowns into the skills themselves, that way the Hammer trait could be reserved for interesting effects (such as ROffense, which turns you into Hammer Pacman!) Hammer is probably thematically one of my favorite weapons in the game - but every class that can use them has implemented them rather poorly.

Anyways, thanks for reading!

These are awesome suggestions for guard hammer, anet please listen!

This way too over powered. Hammer needs a buff in PvE, but not that much. If the AA chain 3rd attack cast time is reduced to 0.75 sec, might blow damage increased by 10-15% (PvE only) and glacial heart trigger ICD from reduced from 10 secs to 5 secs (PvE only), that should be sufficient.

At first I nearly had a heart attack but then I just laugh like crazy, made my day

@LoreChief.8391 said:

• Mighty Blow:
  • Buff damage of Mighty Blow by 40%
  • Give it 600 range
  • Make it a ground-target skill
  • Finisher is no longer Blast but Leap

I totally agree with the changes , would be nice to make heavy armour classes die with a single blow, i would also consider giving 5 might for each foe struck, its called mighty blow for a reason might aswell make it unblockable.

• Banish & Zealot's Embrace:
  • Merge both skills into one that uses launch
  • Banish: Send a wave toward your foes that launches them with a powerful smash
  • Range 1200, damage of Banish, 30s cooldown, num targets = 5
  • Uses the same style of aim pattern as Deflecting Shot in the Longbow kit
  • This is now the #5 skill instead of the #3/4

I can imagine the wave would be like in free for all arena when people above use controller to wipe all the trash from the floor.

• Ring of Warding
  • Is now the #4 skill, cooldown is reduced to 22 seconds
  • Cast time is reduced to 1/4 second, duration is reduced to 3 seconds
  • Enemies that try to leave the circle (voluntarily or otherwise!) are knocked down

Agreed, also increase radius to 380 so it can cover whole Legacy of Foefire mid point, it feels so useless there.

• New #3 skill: Defy
  • Defy: Counter the next attack within 3 seconds, damaging and dazing enemies in front of you while gaining Aegis (5s)
  • 12s cooldown

I think it should be stun for 3 sec instead of daze to make hammer feel more like hammer not like a paperweight...

Good changes overall if i would work in Anet i would hire you.

In my opinion hammer just need a faster autoattack chain, faster hammer#4 which take ages to land, and It's main use is only on downies and finally hammer#5 reduced cd to 20 seconds, for a skill in which you are locked on point it's needed, with faster cast time maybe it's too much on 20 sec cd, but I prefer the reduced cd over faster cast time. Obviously I am talking 20 sec cd traited.Damage is fine and I'll leave it like now.

Move symbol to Hammer 2 please and thank you.

Also make Hammer 5 usable while moving.

@Obtena.7952 said:I dunno ... a paperweight is pretty heavy too.

Indeed, and should you chance to spy Colonel Mustard in the Garden wielding one, I suggest retiring to a different location.

I think hammer is fine right now, the damage is pretty high already and the skills are fun to use. 600 range on mighty bow would be fun but it would basically turn the skill into Leap of Fait, not sure about that one.

There needs to be some understanding that something not being meta is not the same as saying there are so many things wrong with it, it's almost useless.

Hammer isn't great, but it's not bad either; I think it's important to see what kind of weapon hammer is; Hammer is clearly a tanking weapon, or a tanking support weapon. That's it's big problem because those are very limited uses in this game. Still, that's it's theme and there isn't really a reason to change it because there are other weapons to choose from.

Here is what I think:

1. It's stupid #2 range doesn't match #4 knockback IMO. I would make them match, or at least be closer, more likely reducing the Launch Range on Banish.

2. 5 is a big pile of garbage. I have never found use for this skill and if there is one, it's got to be pretty specialized. This has the most potential to give Hammer some additional flavour. The Auto is packed with tanky goodness, #2 is a gap closing blaster, 3 and 4 is nice CC breaking. Combine that with Chill from Glacial ... all these things suggest to me a tank that wants to stick a target and break bars. #5 could be something that moves away from that so hammer appeals outside of the tanking theme.

Even a change to #5 wouldn't be enough to recast hammer as something not ideal for tanking, or supporting one.

speed up aa chain, make mighty blow 450 range, lessen 3-5 cast times and cds. you don't need to make hammer a quasi spell breaker.

@Obtena.7952 said:There needs to be some understanding that something not being meta is not the same as saying there are so many things wrong with it, it's almost useless.

Hammer isn't great, but it's not bad either; I think it's important to see what kind of weapon hammer is; Hammer is clearly a tanking weapon, or a tanking support weapon. That's it's big problem because those are very limited uses in this game. Still, that's it's theme and there isn't really a reason to change it because there are other weapons to choose from.

Here is what I think:

1. It's stupid #2 range doesn't match #4 knockback IMO. I would make them match, or at least be closer, more likely reducing the Launch Range on Banish.

2. 5 is a big pile of garbage. I have never found use for this skill and if there is one, it's got to be pretty specialized. This has the most potential to give Hammer some additional flavour. The Auto is packed with tanky goodness, #2 is a gap closing blaster, 3 and 4 is nice CC breaking. Combine that with Chill from Glacial ... all these things suggest to me a tank that wants to stick a target and break bars. #5 could be something that moves away from that so hammer appeals outside of the tanking theme.

Even a change to #5 wouldn't be enough to recast hammer as something not ideal for tanking, or supporting one.

I don't find anything tanky about the hammer except for its protection symbol which it can't even apply on demand or without a target. If you were going for a tanky weapon you would choose a 1 hand + shield or focus, since it would give you a lot better options for damage mitigation/healing/sticking to target.

IMO it was designed as a bruiser weapon for PVP with high CC and some burst. Even its trait Glacial Heart only benefits PVP. Its weakness is that it hasn't been updated to deal with the power spike of PVP. Its too slow and easy to dodge for too little benefit. You have to burn through utilities like JI, Smite, Shield of Wrath in order to adequately secure kills because it lacks the ability to do it by itself, which leaves you open without defenses or escapes.

Well, I think that's a rather extreme position. There is nothing 'tanky' about permanent 30% damage reduction? I guess you're entitled to the opinion there. It's a moot point anyways; it wasn't meant to be an argument about what the the 'most tanky' weapon choices.

Even if it was meant to be a PVP bruiser CC weapon ... the changes I suggested are still as relevant.

@Obtena.7952 said:Well, I think that's a rather extreme position. There is nothing 'tanky' about permanent 30% damage reduction? I guess you're entitled to the opinion there. It's a moot point anyways; it wasn't meant to be an argument about what the the 'most tanky' weapon choices.

Even if it was meant to be a PVP bruiser CC weapon ... the changes I suggested are still as relevant.

Permenat protection only in group PvE under 100% quickness. In group PvE there are other classes that can do protection better. There is no reason what so ever to use hammer in group PvE. In solo PvE there are way too many variables for you to hold it for more than 20-30%. Good luck completing 1 aa in PvP.

Honestly, if Anet removes the protection tomorrow it would not make any difference, since it is not a factor at all in hammer function in any game mode.

I don't really get why you replied to me with that statement at all. Perma prot facilitates your own tanking, or aids others in tanking; whoever does it best doesn't seem to me to be relevant to that. This wasn't a discussion about Hammer being 'the best' way to apply prot and I can't see what I said prompted you to think it was.

This thread is about things that could be better about Hammer and the fact that there are other classes that apply prot better than hammer really has no bearing on the discussion since Anet doesn't balance Guardian Hammer around other classes, their weapons and the best ways they apply prot.

I don't mind the Hammer at all that much, but I do agree with Symbol of Protection having its activation time reduced to .75 seconds. Would also like a slight range increase to Mighty Blow. As for Zealot's Embrace maybe have the Immobilize last for 2.5 seconds???

I really like hammer as it fits with my idea of a holy warrior. Unfortunately, it doesn't work too well with fire condi, outside of maybe disabling the opponents ability to cleanse for a short while. In my humble opinion, hammer should be reworked to be what one would take when wanting a condi alternative to greatsword, sort of like a yin to a yang, or the flip side of the coin.

@Obtena.7952 said:There needs to be some understanding that something not being meta is not the same as saying there are so many things wrong with it, it's almost useless.

Hammer isn't great, but it's not bad either; I think it's important to see what kind of weapon hammer is; Hammer is clearly a tanking weapon, or a tanking support weapon. That's it's big problem because those are very limited uses in this game. Still, that's it's theme and there isn't really a reason to change it because there are other weapons to choose from.

Here is what I think:

1. It's stupid #2 range doesn't match #4 knockback IMO. I would make them match, or at least be closer, more likely reducing the Launch Range on Banish.

2. 5 is a big pile of garbage. I have never found use for this skill and if there is one, it's got to be pretty specialized. This has the most potential to give Hammer some additional flavour. The Auto is packed with tanky goodness, #2 is a gap closing blaster, 3 and 4 is nice CC breaking. Combine that with Chill from Glacial ... all these things suggest to me a tank that wants to stick a target and break bars. #5 could be something that moves away from that so hammer appeals outside of the tanking theme.

Even a change to #5 wouldn't be enough to recast hammer as something not ideal for tanking, or supporting one.

I would like to see Mighty Blow and Symbol swapped so MB was the 3rd attack in the chain. Would make hammer an offensive weapon in that regard.

Hammer 2 as Symbol of Protection... 2 second symbol with 5 second recharge (4 & 4 traited, see below). This would maintain the skill's function but make it optional and not a forced part of the chain

Merge Glacial Heart into Writ of Persistence and leave it in Honor. GH feels so out of place in Virtues, and Writ's #1 use is for hammer.

Lower the recharge on Hammer 3 and 4. A lot of skills are still balanced for 2012.

Change 5 into a new skill called Ensnaring Blow, give a 20 second recharge. If it hits then up to 5 foes in a 300 radius of the target are afflicted with cripple and weakness.

@MudkipLover.3792 said:I don't mind the Hammer at all that much, but I do agree with Symbol of Protection having its activation time reduced to .75 seconds. Would also like a slight range increase to Mighty Blow. As for Zealot's Embrace maybe have the Immobilize last for 2.5 seconds???

I think if they do that and reduce glacial heart ICD to 5 secs (PvE only) that would make hammer good choice in most PvE content.

biggest problem with hammer for me is that its hard to stick to ppl. if symbol of protection applied 2-3s of cripple on the first hit it would be better off.

Wish we could, Hammer-shield :cold_sweat:

@Aeolus.3615 said:Wish we could, Hammer-shield :cold_sweat:

As much as I would love this. I think this will never happen as it would require removal of two skills from the tooltip to make space for your offhand (if you are talking about what I think you are talking about) and honestly I'm not sure its possible from the perspective of game's code