How To Counter Scourge

I have many mains, but mostly play Necro/Scourge (or Holosmith.) I see a lot of threads complaining about Scourge condi being OP or how there is no "hard" counter to Scourge. This is incorrect. There are essentially only two "condi spamming" Scourge builds (and variations of.) You have Scourge using vanilla Corruptions to condi spam, and you have Scourge using the new Punishments. Scourge using Corruptions to condi spam is essentially little different than the classic condi spamming Necro - and can be handled in the same way that Necro was always countered; have plenty of condi cleanses and mitigate their damage. Except for the F5 & F3 barrier, this necro is likely not specced for barriers, and so it has little protection and can be "hard" countered by any high dps, burst spec that can clean condis.

I think what most people are having problem with is variations of the Punishment Scourge (Boon Corrupting.) This Scourge basically only has a couple of conditions they actually apply consistently - Torment, Cripple, and Burn. Add a bleed and poison if using Scepter. These condis are not actually all that strong and there's not too many stacks that get applied. Where this Scourge shines is in the Boon Corruption; as long as there are boons to corrupt this Scourge will start applying tons of stacks of about every condition there is. Personally I've been running a build that causes my F2 to corrupt boons, Well of Corruption, only the Punishments that corrupt boons, boon stripping sigils, and pretty much any ability/trait/skill that corrupts or strips boons; and then I run the trait that grants me the boons that I strip or corrupt. About the only enemy I need to fear is another boon corrupting Scourge. With my build I am easily topping over 300k damage (even over 500k on maps that encourage group clustering.)

How do you counter this Scourge? Simple - run condi cleans to deal with the Torment, Burn, Poison, and Bleed, and then AVOID all abilities that give you boons. Every boon you get is no longer a boon, but a potential condition. By giving yourself boons, you are really giving yourself conditions if a Punishment Scourge is in play. The more you boon yourself, the more you kill yourself. Any class that can manage minimal conditions and does not rely on boons can essentially be a "hard" counter to a Scourge. Scourge can even "hard" counter itself. Also, any class that is high dps and ranged with bursting abilities can "hard" counter this Scourge. Unless a Scourge is speccing for barriers and tanking (I've tested a spec that can do that and was averaging 250k damage and 300k healing per match and hard countered Condi Scourges), you will find that Condi Scourges cannot handle being focused or fighting high dps ranged classes (Deadeye, Rifle Engi, Rifle Warrior/SB, LB Ranger, etc.)

What I feel is the deadlier of the two Condi Scourges is the Punishment Scourge (Boon Corrupter), but right now that's because there are still a lot of people running boon spamming builds.

BOONS = CONDITIONS

Retire your Shout Guardian builds. Retire your boon share mesmers. Get rid of all classes/builds that spread, share, & spam boons (auras exempt), because these are just killing your team.

Also, Scourges can utilize their F2-F5 abilities even if a shade is not summoned. Shades just make the F2-F5 better.

Scourge isn't hard to kill (especially as a spellbreaker) but my main problem with it is just how they can forever cover an entire point and more with 3-4 different strong AoEs + mark spam, adding way too much visual clutter. It's just too much stuff to keep track of in some instances. Also a good scourge + a good support can be problematic and very hard to kill. Remember the protect-the-necro comp from years ago? That's what's happening right now. Whichever team keeps their scourge(s) alive will probably win every fight, and I don't think that's a super healthy thing for the game.

You need a team that can focus fire. You want to kill the scourge before his condition overwhelms you.

Be a non-boon ranger, die to every other class except scourge... Gege

That's where we could use some new game modes that are not just about standing on 3 points and random mechanic shenanigangs. As for scourge itself, it ain't that bad in the long run. Even if I play a melee build I don't see much trouble with it. I mostly bait the desert shroud and disengage as fast as I can and wait for it to end just to knock the necro away from his shades and finish the job. However, that only works if I catch them by surprise. In a fair and square fight it gets more challenging but not that hard that it has to be called OP.

P/P thief or Rifle Deadeye... Rifle Warrior, LB Ranger, Power Mesmer.. Easy to kill themFolks L2P issue if you are standing in the red circles...Stop with complaining. .

Just attack them from range if they are camping a point.. scourge is totally over rated and extremely slow. It takes them a while to build up their condi if you aren't in the red circles.

@lysico.1297 said:P/P thief or Rifle Deadeye... Rifle Warrior, LB Ranger, Power Mesmer.. Easy to kill themFolks L2P issue if you are standing in the red circles...Stop with complaining. .

It's actually more of a build wars issue when it comes to scourge.

The other new specs can be dealt with skill. Deadeye? Obvious tell signal on you when targeted, deadeye thieves have less evade. Holosmith? Most damaging ability has extremely obvious animation, dodge it. Spellbreaker? Don't spam abilities at random when you know FC is up, FC has obvious animation.

But scourge you don't beat with skill. It's a persistent AoE spam class and you are either built to outrange/outsurvive it or you're not -You beat it with build wars. And that's annoying.

"Necro isn't broken, holo isn't either, that's why I run them and you should stop complaining."

So... you are basically suggesting to NOT run any boons in order to fight a scourge? LOL

Troll of the day

And let's hope the scourge is not supported by a good FB.

The guy takes his time to talk specifically on how to counter scourges (that looks like the "big problem" for everyone here).But when you read the replies you understand that people don't wanna talk about how to counter it, people just want to complain till they get what they want from the "balance patch".

@lysico.1297 said:P/P thief or Rifle Deadeye... Rifle Warrior, LB Ranger, Power Mesmer.. Easy to kill themFolks L2P issue if you are standing in the red circles...Stop with complaining. .

Only a bad player would think scourge is fine. The design is poorly implemented.

@"Malafaia.8903" said:The guy takes his time to talk specifically on how to counter scourges (that looks like the "big problem" for everyone here).But when you read the replies you understand that people don't wanna talk about how to counter it, people just want to complain till they get what they want from the "balance patch".

Unfortunately, countering a scourge is more than simply beating them 1v1. This game mode is centered around area nodes that are polluted by scourge aoe condi and corrupt application. Getting a full bar of conditions every 6 seconds is not balanced.

you can counter it, but no class should force you to play it's specific counters lest you just die. This isn't a moba where you see the enemies champions as you pick and you try to counter it. Here you play the classs you want and every class should have a fighting chance in the current landscape. Like rev has 0 condi cleanse and relies heavily on it's boons, so I guess it's ok that the whole class is just dead because it doesn't counter scourge?

@Razor.6392 said:

@"Malafaia.8903" said:The guy takes his time to talk specifically on how to counter scourges (that looks like the "big problem" for everyone here).But when you read the replies you understand that people don't wanna talk about how to counter it, people just want to complain till they get what they want from the "balance patch".

Unfortunately people don't want to discuss ways to deal with Scourges. They just want to complain and wait for something to change.That's what this topic shows.

@Bandlero.6312 said:How do you counter this Scourge? Simple - run condi cleans to deal with the Torment, Burn, Poison, and Bleed, and then AVOID all abilities that give you boons. Every boon you get is no longer a boon, but a potential condition. By giving yourself boons, you are really giving yourself conditions if a Punishment Scourge is in play. The more you boon yourself, the more you kill yourself.

So you want us to deal no damage, be off a point, no team Cleanses cause many skills have boons associated with it, and not team support because boons are bad?Great advice.

@Bandlero.6312 said:Any class that can manage minimal conditions and does not rely on boons can essentially be a "hard" counter to a Scourge. Scourge can even "hard" counter itself. Also, any class that is high dps and ranged with bursting abilities can "hard" counter this Scourge.Unless a Scourge is speccing for barriers and tanking (I've tested a spec that can do that and was averaging 250k damage and 300k healing per match and hard countered Condi Scourges), you will find that Condi Scourges cannot handle being focused or fighting high dps ranged classes (Deadeye, Rifle Engi, Rifle Warrior/SB, LB Ranger, etc.)

So use Gold rated non-meta builds to counter 1 class, in a playing field of high rated division pug team players... got it.

@Bandlero.6312 said:Retire your Shout Guardian builds. Retire your boon share mesmers. Get rid of all classes/builds that spread, share, & spam boons (auras exempt), because these are just killing your team.

Finally something here. Shout Guard and Boon Mesmer are F grade builds that will never sustain Plat2+ level PvP. They're only good if your okay with staying in Gold Division.

@Malafaia.8903 said:

@Razor.6392 said:

@Malafaia.8903 said:The guy takes his time to talk specifically on how to counter scourges (that looks like the "big problem" for everyone here).But when you read the replies you understand that people don't wanna talk about how to counter it, people just want to complain till they get what they want from the "balance patch".

How do you deal with scourges in a 5v5 where they get pocketed? Please enlighten me. Do you run a full deadeye team?

@Saiyan.1704 said:

@Bandlero.6312 said:How do you counter this Scourge? Simple - run condi cleans to deal with the Torment, Burn, Poison, and Bleed, and then AVOID all abilities that give you boons. Every boon you get is no longer a boon, but a potential condition. By giving yourself boons, you are really giving yourself conditions if a Punishment Scourge is in play. The more you boon yourself, the more you kill yourself.

@Bandlero.6312 said:Any class that can manage minimal conditions and does not rely on boons can essentially be a "hard" counter to a Scourge. Scourge can even "hard" counter itself. Also, any class that is high dps and ranged with bursting abilities can "hard" counter this Scourge.Unless a Scourge is speccing for barriers and tanking (I've tested a spec that can do that and was averaging 250k damage and 300k healing per match and hard countered Condi Scourges), you will find that Condi Scourges cannot handle being focused or fighting high dps ranged classes (Deadeye, Rifle Engi, Rifle Warrior/SB, LB Ranger, etc.)

@Bandlero.6312 said:Retire your Shout Guardian builds. Retire your boon share mesmers. Get rid of all classes/builds that spread, share, & spam boons (auras exempt), because these are just killing your team.

OP wrote this on sept 29th.

@Malafaia.8903 said:

@Razor.6392 said:

@Malafaia.8903 said:The guy takes his time to talk specifically on how to counter scourges (that looks like the "big problem" for everyone here).But when you read the replies you understand that people don't wanna talk about how to counter it, people just want to complain till they get what they want from the "balance patch".

Theres nothing to talk about, spam 1111 at range he will die, cap area or bail out if has help incomming..

Damage output creep @ range, it is not a counter, it is a bad design to easilly win against an another bad design.Anet's game is flawed, it is a dumb gameplay., based on spam or power creep gimmicks, heavy rotation based, with classes with no depth, that is the most unskilled design a mmo and a pvp game can have.

Trust me it is.

Malafaia.8903, im criticizing what Anet defines has counters.... it is dumb gameplay and not that skilled.Remember when DH was released what how traps were a extremmelly dumb way to win?That is the issue with Anet, they design skills to carry players...and that is what i criticize.

It is players like u who that are actually are being carried for sure, and then QQ that cant kill and use brains nor teamwork when Anet or IF Anet removes a bit of damage from your build.

Time playing games is irrevelant, i played online games far before than that and in tourneys as well, and it does0nt matter for what we should be discussing.

@Razor.6392 said:

@Malafaia.8903 said:

@Razor.6392 said:

@Malafaia.8903 said:The guy takes his time to talk specifically on how to counter scourges (that looks like the "big problem" for everyone here).But when you read the replies you understand that people don't wanna talk about how to counter it, people just want to complain till they get what they want from the "balance patch".

Look, i already wrote about this in another post.I think Scourges is ok, but Scourges + Firebrands duos is a problem. But how to deal with this? You kill the Scourge spec? That's what people are asking here.Firebrands need a tone down in survivability/ support and get some damage buffs.

reason ''people don't want to discuss how to counter a class'', is because the way to counter a class is absurd.

in theory, yes u should play a class with absolutely no boons, condi cleanses and be ranged. Which would mean u play the following classes without any boons to support yourself against a class with barrier that is babysitted by a support firebrand.

P/P and or rifle thief/deadeye/daredevilHammer rev/herald/renegadePower Ranger/soulbeast/druidRifle Warrior/berserker/spellbreakerBoonless Fresh Air ele and or version of a power ele build that is atleast at 900 units of range

pretty much garbage to supoptimal builds(safe for fresh air ele) and then ask of them to not play boons on top of that? Some boons that heavily affect what little sustain some of the above builds have. and none of these builds are going to kill a scourge/firebrand combo without boons. So u either play without boons at all, which means playing a build that has some wacky traitlines+weapons that ignore all possible boons which is pretty much impossible, and since u lack damage modifiers or defensive modifieder u can A: Not kill the scourge/firebrand and B: get focused down even faster.

The OP's suggestion is absurd. But yeah ofcourse, WE SIMPLY DON'T WANT TO FUCKING LEARN RIGHT?!!!

@"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said:reason ''people don't want to discuss how to counter a class'', is because the way to counter a class is absurd.

Exactly

@"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said:reason ''people don't want to discuss how to counter a class'', is because the way to counter a class is absurd.

in theory, yes u should play a class with absolutely no boons, condi cleanses and be ranged. Which would mean u play the following classes without any boons to support yourself against a class with barrier that is babysitted by a support firebrand.

P/P and or rifle thief/deadeye/daredevilHammer rev/herald/renegadePower Ranger/soulbeast/druidRifle Warrior/berserker/spellbreakerBoonless Fresh Air ele and or version of a power ele build that is atleast at 900 units of range

pretty much garbage to supoptimal builds(safe for fresh air ele) and then ask of them to not play boons on top of that? Some boons that heavily affect what little sustain some of the above builds have. and none of these builds are going to kill a scourge/firebrand combo without boons. So u either play without boons at all, which means playing a build that has some wacky traitlines+weapons that ignore all possible boons which is pretty much impossible, and since u lack damage modifiers or defensive modifieder u can A: Not kill the scourge/firebrand and B: get focused down even faster.

The OP's suggestion is absurd. But yeah ofcourse, WE SIMPLY DON'T WANT TO kitten LEARN RIGHT?!!!

"The OP suggestion seems absurd, so i'll just keep bashing till Anet hear me and change things the way i want"If you take your time to explain why you think playing a boonless build is a bad thing and ask for another idea on how to counter said class without that endless bitching you could get better results on a discussion forum.

I've played Necro till the shroud nerf pré-PoF. Instead of getting to the forums to complain about nerf i thought: "Hey, it's time to learn a new class".Reapers are still viable, but don't suits my gameplay anymore (and Reaper can counter Scourges with all the melee pressure while transfering condis).

Some people thinks crying till they get what they want is the way to go.I, personally, think that adapting and having fun is better.

@"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said:reason ''people don't want to discuss how to counter a class'', is because the way to counter a class is absurd.

Lol? whats wrong with u? i wonna play my char and dont mind that meta can change? smne got new abilities - nerf it, i wonna play my favourite class? sry its weird logic, just as my pinglish