Confusion Damage to Raid bosses

https://i.imgur.com/XNyQt6L.png

The above image is taken from the guild CnD and their benchmarks for the bosses using mirage.

This is mainly for raids, I think people have made enough discussions about pvp. So, I have just watched the shatter mirage and damage benchmarks on bosses mainly focused on stacking as much confusion as possible and the damage outcomes are not normal. As being the only class to apply such crazy amounts of confusion I think either the damage bosses take from confusion has to be nerfed or the general amount of confusion that mirages can stack.

I do play mirage but I am quite bored of playing it in places that you “must only play mirage” but as for power favoured bosses you can switch between many classes and have quite some options, but for largos, matthias or desmina there is literally no option for anyone to play other than mirage. I prefer different classes being able to be effective in some fights not a single class to dominate every other just because it can stack confusion.

Probably better posted in the Raids forum....

You also have to keep in mind that it's players and the meta that drive what classes are used. You can use whatever class you want in a Raid but because of the status quo you may be soloing it, lol.

I agree. Atm we have bosses where Power dps is good and then we have bosses where mirage is good.

Not everyone can pull off those numbers though. For many players i have seen, condi sb is as good an option tbh. Well, for matthias and desmina. Largos is mirage-only definitely, byt i'd say that is as much for damage, as it is for survivability.

Also, i tend to hate some people playing mirages on desmina a lot, because they end up teleporting outside middle circle and spawning the big walls way too often for my liking.

yes, mirage is definitely good, but it's hardly the only reasonable condi option available as some seem to be suggesting.

@"Astralporing.1957" said:Not everyone can pull off those numbers though. For many players i have seen, condi sb is as good an option tbh. Well, for matthias and desmina. Largos is mirage-only definitely, byt i'd say that is as much for damage, as it is for survivability.

Also, i tend to hate some people playing mirages on desmina a lot, because they end up teleporting outside middle circle and spawning the big walls way too often for my liking.

yes, mirage is definitely good, but it's hardly the only reasonable condi option available as some seem to be suggesting.

What many players dont understand, is that if you play confusion mirage badly, then its not worth it - especially if you have a firebrand+renegade support team. Either learn it properly, or just stick to your main dps. Its way more important to not get kicked of the platform and not bubbled, than bringing confusion to that fight.

Id really wish anet would do something about the extreme outlier largos encounter. Tbh, Id wish they would finally revert the changes to confusion in PvE. This whole "crit" idea is nice for PvP and WvW, but its plain horrible for PvE balancing. Confusion stacking builds like condi mirage is horrible on the majority of bosses, while extremely OP on the few ones that have a fast attack rate.Horrible design. Just horrible.

@Yasi.9065 said:

@"Astralporing.1957" said:Not everyone can pull off those numbers though. For many players i have seen, condi sb is as good an option tbh. Well, for matthias and desmina. Largos is mirage-only definitely, byt i'd say that is as much for damage, as it is for survivability.

Also, i tend to hate some people playing mirages on desmina a lot, because they end up teleporting outside middle circle and spawning the big walls way too often for my liking.

yes, mirage is definitely good, but it's hardly the only reasonable condi option available as some seem to be suggesting.

This.

Both Astralporing and Yasi are correct. People assume they are doing good damage because they log Mirage. Then they don't realize that their 12-15k dps on arc on Largos is not that great. Mirage needs to be played well to be worth it. Renegade, Holo or Soulbeast are very good dps for those fights, and in some cases way easier to be played.

Largos being a huge exception due to the overall movement favoring Mirage very heavily. All other bosses, honestly unless you are running a top end speed clear guild, bring which ever condi build you are comfortable with.

I'd personally take a very easy to play condi soulbeast who gets 80% of snowcrows dps over some 60% of snowcrows performance mirage.

@"Yasi.9065" said:Id really wish anet would do something about the extreme outlier largos encounter. Tbh, Id wish they would finally revert the changes to confusion in PvE. This whole "crit" idea is nice for PvP and WvW, but its plain horrible for PvE balancing. Confusion stacking builds like condi mirage is horrible on the majority of bosses, while extremely OP on the few ones that have a fast attack rate.Horrible design. Just horrible.

Well Anet wants Confusion to be a flavorfull bursty condition that punishes others for using skills. It was a change that was made solely with PvP and WvW in mind and made no sense in PvE where mobs don't care if they have confusion. It was also the only change that Anet didn't really talk about back then while other stuff like, the phantasm/clone change and alacrity got quite the amount of explanation which was good but the overall confusion change ( a big one ) got only " we are very excited about this"....

And yes Anet needs to revert the confusion change back in PvE. Let PvP and WvW have this new confusion type, it makes sense there but it needs to be reverted in PvE. Flavor is a nice thing when it works and doesn't interfere with the skill but here the "flavor" is just making this thing bad.

Lets ask a question. Why do some boses favor cond and some power. Generaly fights with short phases favkr power and without phases condi. Boss that has no phases, and is not moving/atacking fast would be a golem. Thats why 2 main condi dps classes are mirage and renegade

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:Lets ask a question. Why do some boses favor cond and some power. Generaly fights with short phases favkr power and without phases condi. Boss that has no phases, and is not moving/atacking fast would be a golem. Thats why 2 main condi dps classes are mirage and renegade

It's both but currently mostly due to movement.

Mirage is superior movement wise which brings it out on top for many fights which otherwise should be favoring power (Cairn, Matthias, Desmina, Twins). 4 of the main Mirage bosses have limited burst phases (a lot more limited than say Cairn, Sabetha, Xera, etc. which all allow for near permanent damage, at least compared to the aforementioned) but are also very movement heavy.

The only fight where condition damage comes out on top where movement is of less concern is Dhuum. That's mostly due to Renegade being top dps on large hit boxes AND being very useful on the fight (bringing his own boon removal).

Before mirage Matthias was berserker warrior favoured and before that fire brand favoured, and before that Soul beast favoured. I think scourge also had their time. Matthias has never been power favoured in any meta, including the ones before the confusion change.

Cairn follow a similar line. When we had a weaver meta cairn was know as a pain because of the mechanics, so everyone just went condi.

Desmina was initial mirage, then berserker warrior, then epi bounce and then back to mirage.

Twins has always been mirage.

Xera, sab and gor is the ones that seen most swings between condi and power depending on benchmarks and patches. I would even go as far as say that next patch will change the meta for those bosses, regardless what the patch include.

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:Lets ask a question. Why do some boses favor cond and some power. Generaly fights with short phases favkr power and without phases condi. Boss that has no phases, and is not moving/atacking fast would be a golem. Thats why 2 main condi dps classes are mirage and renegadeThe only fight where condition damage comes out on top where movement is of less concern is Dhuum. That's mostly due to Renegade being top dps on large hit boxes AND being very useful on the fight (bringing his own boon removal).

Boon removal is not a major factor. In the past we either had the off chrono sacrifice one utility for disenchanter, or people brought spell breaker. Renegade is more convenient and can also clear out south, but if a better DPS choice can consistently do higher DPS then that will replace renegade. Renegade replaced the DE thieves meta for dhuum, which had none of the convenient aspects but did bring a lot of DPS pre-nerf.

There are many cases of people being better off sticking to Soulbeasts with their easy rotation or even Scourges with their Torment stacking against moving targets and additional survivability over Mirages. We have seem this many times before. Mirages are just the new Weavers (or previously Tempests). A build people feel forced to play even if only a minority is actually able to come close to reaching that benchmark performance.

@Belorn.2659 said:Before mirage Matthias was berserker warrior favoured and before that fire brand favoured, and before that Soul beast favoured. I think scourge also had their time. Matthias has never been power favoured in any meta, including the ones before the confusion change.

I know, this was to argue that short burst phases are not automatically power favored as people always like to make out. Matthias has always been a fight where movement and how well a class can perform their dps under this limitation is subject to.

@Belorn.2659 said:Desmina was initial mirage, then berserker warrior, then epi bounce and then back to mirage.

Again, favoring the build which best deals with the movement impairment and requirement (or absolute dps which was insane with epidemic).

@Belorn.2659 said:Twins has always been mirage.

Yup, and?

@Belorn.2659 said:Xera, sab and gor is the ones that seen most swings between condi and power depending on benchmarks and patches. I would even go as far as say that next patch will change the meta for those bosses, regardless what the patch include.

Because the fights are close to a damage golem and the highest dps wins. Again, having permanent or near permanent access to damaging a boss is no automatic reason that condition is favored. Hence the argument that condition damage is favored against bosses with low invul phases is bogus.

@Belorn.2659 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:Lets ask a question. Why do some boses favor cond and some power. Generaly fights with short phases favkr power and without phases condi. Boss that has no phases, and is not moving/atacking fast would be a golem. Thats why 2 main condi dps classes are mirage and renegadeThe only fight where condition damage comes out on top where movement is of less concern is Dhuum. That's mostly due to Renegade being top dps on large hit boxes AND being very useful on the fight (bringing his own boon removal).

I did mention that highest dps on Dhuum was due to Renegade being top dps on large hitboxes didn't I? Again, what is your argument?

Mine is this: division between condition damage and power is currently decided on the basis of how much movement is involved, and if enough movement is part of the fight, Mirage gets chosen due to its unique mechanics. In all other cases power builds win UNLESS there is a condition damage dps build which does more damage (only on Dhuum Renegade) or builds within the class are heavily skewed towards one of both damage types and the class needs to get taken along (warrior).

@Henry.5713 said:There are many cases of people being better off sticking to Soulbeasts with their easy rotation or even Scourges with their Torment stacking against moving targets and additional survivability over Mirages. We have seem this many times before. Mirages are just the new Weavers (or previously Tempests). A build people feel forced to play even if only a minority is actually able to come close to reaching that benchmark performance.

This is true for the vast majority of players and is what I communicate to new players:

Pick a class where the rotation is easy enough so you don't have to worry about mastering multiple things at once. I do recommend for them to have a power and condition damage build available (simply because certain fights like VG require certain types of damage and those fights are often used by us for practice). Past that though, condi double shortbow soulbeast, thief or DH are among the top recommendations currently (talking completely new players to raids often).

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Belorn.2659 said:Before mirage Matthias was berserker warrior favoured and before that fire brand favoured, and before that Soul beast favoured. I think scourge also had their time. Matthias has never been power favoured in any meta, including the ones before the confusion change.

Matthias has been condi favoured since it has no condition reseting phases and does not stand still for aoe or other skills which favor a boss that stand still. It is also a mechanic heavy fight which require both a lot of CC and reflects, which forces players to prioritize part of the party to other aspects than exclusively DPS.

@Belorn.2659 said:Desmina was initial mirage, then berserker warrior, then epi bounce and then back to mirage.

The build that do best dps depend on multiple factors, one being movement. There are power classes that deal decently with movement, but here the attack speed of the boss gives confusion an additional edge.

@Belorn.2659 said:Twins has always been mirage.

And what? Not everything need to be a confrontation. The dodge and evade function is built-in with mirage rotation, where other build would need to sacrifice rotation in order to stay alive. This give a major advantage to mirage in this specific fight. Renegade is about 2/3 of a mirage for DPS on this fight, where the difference on a small golem would be very different.

@Belorn.2659 said:Xera, sab and gor is the ones that seen most swings between condi and power depending on benchmarks and patches. I would even go as far as say that next patch will change the meta for those bosses, regardless what the patch include.

Bosses that has condition resetting phases reduces the effective of conditions. Gor has that, making the ramp up time a major disadvantage in groups that burst him down fast enough to not do updraft which is the majority now days. Gor currently favor burst damage classes and builds, similar to KC. It is one of the bosses that Anet should give a health buff to in order to compensate for power creep.

@Belorn.2659 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:Lets ask a question. Why do some boses favor cond and some power. Generaly fights with short phases favkr power and without phases condi. Boss that has no phases, and is not moving/atacking fast would be a golem. Thats why 2 main condi dps classes are mirage and renegadeThe only fight where condition damage comes out on top where movement is of less concern is Dhuum. That's mostly due to Renegade being top dps on large hit boxes AND being very useful on the fight (bringing his own boon removal).

Did you forget that you said "bringing his own boon removal" was very useful? Its a minor bonus that see its best utilization when low manning.

Mine is this: division between condition damage and power is currently decided on the basis of how much movement is involved, and if enough movement is part of the fight, Mirage gets chosen due to its unique mechanics. In all other cases power builds win UNLESS there is a condition damage dps build which does more damage (only on Dhuum Renegade) or builds within the class are heavily skewed towards one of both damage types and the class needs to get taken along (warrior).

Movement effects specific skills. Not all power classes are effected by it, nor is all condition classes in favored when there is a lot of movement. Condition classes are effected by phases and condition-reseting mechanics which limits heavily what bosses they can be effective on. In addition to that, confusion stacks are effected by skill activation which is an internal aspect to each raid boss. Dhuum 10% phase is a prime example of this where proper confusion stacking can give mirage something like 60-100k dps for a very short burst.

@Belorn.2659 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Belorn.2659 said:Before mirage Matthias was berserker warrior favoured and before that fire brand favoured, and before that Soul beast favoured. I think scourge also had their time. Matthias has never been power favoured in any meta, including the ones before the confusion change.

Well yes and no. While immune condies expire while power builds simply wait on cool downs. Yes, other factors also play into Mirages strengths.

@Belorn.2659 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Belorn.2659 said:Desmina was initial mirage, then berserker warrior, then epi bounce and then back to mirage.

True, but the fact that literally no other condi build is in any of the meta setups (not saying they aren't useful or close) is a clear indicator of multiple factors favoring specifically Mirage.

@Belorn.2659 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Belorn.2659 said:Twins has always been mirage.

True, I was probably a bit on edge from all this hrum dum on the forums and people freaking out currently. My bad.

Still, again Mirage is favored due to factors which are unrelated to condition damage.

@Belorn.2659 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Belorn.2659 said:Xera, sab and gor is the ones that seen most swings between condi and power depending on benchmarks and patches. I would even go as far as say that next patch will change the meta for those bosses, regardless what the patch include.

Yes, condition builds in general should be dominating permanent damage fights. They aren't currently. Maybe some adjustments need to be made to boss life (I mean almost half of all mechanics get skipped in the original wings). Then again I personally view this as slight power creep to reduce content difficulty. It;s already hard enough on many in this player base to succeed at this content.

@Belorn.2659 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Belorn.2659 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:Lets ask a question. Why do some boses favor cond and some power. Generaly fights with short phases favkr power and without phases condi. Boss that has no phases, and is not moving/atacking fast would be a golem. Thats why 2 main condi dps classes are mirage and renegadeThe only fight where condition damage comes out on top where movement is of less concern is Dhuum. That's mostly due to Renegade being top dps on large hit boxes AND being very useful on the fight (bringing his own boon removal).

You're right, I should have not called it major bonus (though bring a full set of dps without boon removal would require adaptations to either a slot (reducing performance on that slot) or different skill on mesmer (which again can cause serious loss in dps). Not sure I would call it a minor bonus, but now we are getting into the area of semantics and which setup gets run.

@Belorn.2659 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:Mine is this: division between condition damage and power is currently decided on the basis of how much movement is involved, and if enough movement is part of the fight, Mirage gets chosen due to its unique mechanics. In all other cases power builds win UNLESS there is a condition damage dps build which does more damage (only on Dhuum Renegade) or builds within the class are heavily skewed towards one of both damage types and the class needs to get taken along (warrior).

The main issue being, NO condition class is meta except for Mirage (and even Renegade on Dhuum gets outperformed with full chrono power dps squads). This is not me calling for condition buffs, but I just can't see how condition damage supposedly outperforms power on any fights UNLESS there are multiple factors benefiting the specific class.

What I don't understand is the stupid compulsion people feel for demanding a mirage or whatever fotm class for a boss when other specs can still do competitive damage and clear the raid.

It's about as petty as not accepting a holosmith because DD/DE/DH/Weaver are higher.

Who cares? The enrage timer thresholds are so ridiculously low that by this point the min maxing that is suddenly made mandatory is ruining the raiding and fractal scene.

People are complaining about things which are the sole product of a community problem, not a game problem. This game's endgame community treats class selection far worse than other games like FFXIV/WoW which have infinitely more demanding DPS checks and raid mechanics.

I go to look at LFG on fractals T4 and now in NA every day it's "CHRONO/DRUID" on CM's.+T4 Why so stringent? These can still be cleared in less than 40 minutes with a renegade or FB healer, it's just dumb how absolutist this community is.

Meanwhile in FFXIV and WoW I can grab the highest weekly M+ key or a mythic raid on something like an ele shaman or feral druid still, or do a savage mode raid on a samurai/blm (the least "wanted" DPS) with far less issue.

This community has serious herd mentality and total inflexibility when it comes to comps. It's ironic how the game that was supposed to be the one with most comp variety is the most stifling and intolerant of them all.

You shouldn't really look at benchmarks to decide on whether a class is op or not, though I agree that mesmer in general is pretty strong, if your basis comes down to benchmarks then that is simply not a good argument to make

@"Zenith.7301" said:What I don't understand is the stupid compulsion people feel for demanding a mirage or whatever fotm class for a boss when other specs can still do competitive damage and clear the raid.

It's about as petty as not accepting a holosmith because DD/DE/DH/Weaver are higher.

Who cares? The enrage timer thresholds are so ridiculously low that by this point the min maxing that is suddenly made mandatory is ruining the raiding and fractal scene.

People are complaining about things which are the sole product of a community problem, not a game problem. This game's endgame community treats class selection far worse than other games like FFXIV/WoW which have infinitely more demanding DPS checks and raid mechanics.

I go to look at LFG on fractals T4 and now in NA every day it's "CHRONO/DRUID" on CM's.+T4 Why so stringent? These can still be cleared in less than 40 minutes with a renegade or FB healer, it's just dumb how absolutist this community is.

Meanwhile in FFXIV and WoW I can grab the highest weekly M+ key or a mythic raid on something like an ele shaman or feral druid still, or do a savage mode raid on a samurai/blm (the least "wanted" DPS) with far less issue.

This community has serious herd mentality and total inflexibility when it comes to comps. It's ironic how the game that was supposed to be the one with most comp variety is the most stifling and intolerant of them all.

I agree with you 100% and I play FFXIV too, I've never been excluded from any HC endgame content as a Dark Knight and White Mage player, and people knows how far they're behind other tanks and healers (aka little to no group support abilities compared to Paladin/Astrologian).

I'm pretty sure you can still clear all raids with 2 Chronos/1 FB + 1 Renegade, 1 BS, 1 Druid/Scourge and 6 P/P Daredevil/Deadeye.

People really need to stop copying speedrunners tactics in this game, it's not something all of you can do, why not taking advantage of Firebrand, Renegade and Scourge healing in fractals? It's crazy how easy 100CM is with either of them compared to Druid, heck you can even take 2 healers with you (Firebrand + Renegade) and still complete it in a reasonable amount of time, it just takes +5min at worst but in exchange you're guaranteed to succeed, keep in mind that outside Siax in 99CM there aren't much DPS checks in Fractals at all.

On matt you can play renegade too since the confusion procs take 3+sec so it doesnt really does a HUGE difference.On SH you can play renegade too, because if you pull out a 29-31k renegade then you are very close to the mirage´s DPS in your group for the reason of the executing the perfect rotation for an average of 24 stacks of confusion(those numbers on the image are calculated with this amout of confusion on boss iirc). Also, the rotation for that is somewhat unforgiving since it makes you hard to fix your mistakes on phases for example CC or bad pushDhuum is renegade, MO is renegade, so it comes down to that mirage is only BiS on Largos and maybe on SH if you do really good rota and the DPS is high enough to prevent mistakesBut after all this, i think we should just vote to either delete mirage or make it unable to use any weapon/skill/trait but then the forums would be silent...

@Amineo.8951 said:

@"Zenith.7301" said:What I don't understand is the stupid compulsion people feel for demanding a mirage or whatever fotm class for a boss when other specs can still do competitive damage and clear the raid.

It's about as petty as not accepting a holosmith because DD/DE/DH/Weaver are higher.

Who cares? The enrage timer thresholds are so ridiculously low that by this point the min maxing that is suddenly made mandatory is ruining the raiding and fractal scene.

People are complaining about things which are the sole product of a community problem, not a game problem. This game's endgame community treats class selection far worse than other games like FFXIV/WoW which have infinitely more demanding DPS checks and raid mechanics.

I go to look at LFG on fractals T4 and now in NA every day it's "CHRONO/DRUID" on CM's.+T4 Why so stringent? These can still be cleared in less than 40 minutes with a renegade or FB healer, it's just dumb how absolutist this community is.

Meanwhile in FFXIV and WoW I can grab the highest weekly M+ key or a mythic raid on something like an ele shaman or feral druid still, or do a savage mode raid on a samurai/blm (the least "wanted" DPS) with far less issue.

This community has serious herd mentality and total inflexibility when it comes to comps. It's ironic how the game that was supposed to be the one with most comp variety is the most stifling and intolerant of them all.

The amount of people who wait 20+ minutes for a BS warrior when they could grab just another DPS and get started and clear the content in a similar time is mindboggling to begin with.

People in this game absolutely refuse to run anything deviating from the flavor of the month.

I remember when I was getting votekicked for bringing a power chrono dps to fractal CM or the support chrono leaving indignant, only for power chrono to be deemed OP and suddenly nobody caring about it.

And then there are the people who say "start your own group".

You clearly haven't started an LFG being a necro/revenant/power chrono by then because if you did you'd know how much longer it takes to fill if it fills at all in LFG.

@Zenith.7301 said:

@Amineo.8951 said:

@Zenith.7301 said:What I don't understand is the stupid compulsion people feel for demanding a mirage or whatever fotm class for a boss when other specs can still do competitive damage and clear the raid.

It's about as petty as not accepting a holosmith because DD/DE/DH/Weaver are higher.

Who cares? The enrage timer thresholds are so ridiculously low that by this point the min maxing that is suddenly made mandatory is ruining the raiding and fractal scene.

People are complaining about things which are the sole product of a community problem, not a game problem. This game's endgame community treats class selection far worse than other games like FFXIV/WoW which have infinitely more demanding DPS checks and raid mechanics.

I go to look at LFG on fractals T4 and now in NA every day it's "CHRONO/DRUID" on CM's.+T4 Why so stringent? These can still be cleared in less than 40 minutes with a renegade or FB healer, it's just dumb how absolutist this community is.

Meanwhile in FFXIV and WoW I can grab the highest weekly M+ key or a mythic raid on something like an ele shaman or feral druid still, or do a savage mode raid on a samurai/blm (the least "wanted" DPS) with far less issue.

This community has serious herd mentality and total inflexibility when it comes to comps. It's ironic how the game that was supposed to be the one with most comp variety is the most stifling and intolerant of them all.

People won't truly care about Renegade + Firebrand combo in Raids until Chrono dies and becomes "trash" in the eyes of top tier guilds.

I mean look at how Necro gets all the trash because it doesn't have it's own "Good" or "Meta" slots in Snowcrows website when Healing Scourge has been proven to be awesome in Fractals and Raids, this is seriously a big issue that needs to be addressed.

But it'll never change since most of them are raid testers if I'm not mistaken.

@"Zenith.7301" said:What I don't understand is the stupid compulsion people feel for demanding a mirage or whatever fotm class for a boss when other specs can still do competitive damage and clear the raid.

It's about as petty as not accepting a holosmith because DD/DE/DH/Weaver are higher.

Who cares? The enrage timer thresholds are so ridiculously low that by this point the min maxing that is suddenly made mandatory is ruining the raiding and fractal scene.

People are complaining about things which are the sole product of a community problem, not a game problem. This game's endgame community treats class selection far worse than other games like FFXIV/WoW which have infinitely more demanding DPS checks and raid mechanics.

I go to look at LFG on fractals T4 and now in NA every day it's "CHRONO/DRUID" on CM's.+T4 Why so stringent? These can still be cleared in less than 40 minutes with a renegade or FB healer, it's just dumb how absolutist this community is.

Meanwhile in FFXIV and WoW I can grab the highest weekly M+ key or a mythic raid on something like an ele shaman or feral druid still, or do a savage mode raid on a samurai/blm (the least "wanted" DPS) with far less issue.

This community has serious herd mentality and total inflexibility when it comes to comps. It's ironic how the game that was supposed to be the one with most comp variety is the most stifling and intolerant of them all.

For me clear is not the goal. Why should I play with worse composition when it is less fun for me?

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@"Zenith.7301" said:What I don't understand is the stupid compulsion people feel for demanding a mirage or whatever fotm class for a boss when other specs can still do competitive damage and clear the raid.

It's about as petty as not accepting a holosmith because DD/DE/DH/Weaver are higher.

Who cares? The enrage timer thresholds are so ridiculously low that by this point the min maxing that is suddenly made mandatory is ruining the raiding and fractal scene.

People are complaining about things which are the sole product of a community problem, not a game problem. This game's endgame community treats class selection far worse than other games like FFXIV/WoW which have infinitely more demanding DPS checks and raid mechanics.

I go to look at LFG on fractals T4 and now in NA every day it's "CHRONO/DRUID" on CM's.+T4 Why so stringent? These can still be cleared in less than 40 minutes with a renegade or FB healer, it's just dumb how absolutist this community is.

Meanwhile in FFXIV and WoW I can grab the highest weekly M+ key or a mythic raid on something like an ele shaman or feral druid still, or do a savage mode raid on a samurai/blm (the least "wanted" DPS) with far less issue.

This community has serious herd mentality and total inflexibility when it comes to comps. It's ironic how the game that was supposed to be the one with most comp variety is the most stifling and intolerant of them all.

Because defining worse as "This comp nets me 3 minutes less clear time" is one of the most asinine and neurotic restrictions to fun I have read.

@"Zenith.7301" said:Because defining worse as "This comp nets me 3 minutes less clear time" is one of the most asinine and neurotic restrictions to fun I have read.

And yet its still his opninion of fun. Should he change his opinion because you dont like it?