Warclaw kills Roaming — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Warclaw kills Roaming

Even if Anet doesnt agree that roaming is actually thing, me playing 6 years wvw i can tell you it is what me and friends have been doing most, just running arround, duelling and outnumbering. The warclaw totally destroys that, since no single class or build is able to deal 12 k dmg to a guy that is fater than you, that has 3 dodges and has 12k hp. The only change that would make sense like in many other games is, that u get dismount once u get infight, easy as that!

change my mind

<13456

Comments

  • CETheLucid.3964CETheLucid.3964 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 12, 2019

    Solution: Mounts have no defense against conditions. Play with a buddy who can condi-bomb. Alternately, be the condi-bomb. Bomb the mount and prepare burst for when they're forcefully dismounted (which counts as a KD).

    Mount HP is trivial and even if you're straight DPS most classes have a ranged option.

    On an unrelated note, I wish we could use the skill 3 option to lasso another mounted player and force a confrontation. That would be cool. They could also add a new trick/trap that forces players off their mount and disables it for a good bit.

  • Duckota.4769Duckota.4769 Member ✭✭✭

    @CETheLucid.3964 said:
    Solution: Mounts have no defense against conditions. Play with a buddy who can condi-bomb. Alternately, be the condi-bomb. Bomb the mount and prepare burst for when they're forcefully dismounted (which counts as a KD).

    Mount HP is trivial and even if you're straight DPS most classes have a ranged option.

    On an unrelated note, I wish we could use the skill 3 option to lasso another mounted player and force a confrontation. That would be cool. They could also add a new trick/trap that forces players off their mount and disables it for a good bit.

    Condi. Gross. Almost blockworthy amounts of gross.

    Trivial? Ya lmao stupid people not thinking that a full zerk ele's health bar is trivial when added on top of a spellbreakers health bar. Are you also considering cds used to do the burst dmg before they Idk... press a dodge button 3 times and theyre gone?

    Ive thought of that as well and I think it could be interesting. Im not very interested in traps. Band-aid fix for something they refuse to spend the proper time to fix. Essentially thats what all traps are.

  • Duckota.4769Duckota.4769 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 12, 2019

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @Magnuzone.8395 said:
    Play against ppl who are interested in fighting you, problem solved. Noone likes a ganker.

    Agreed, ganking and stealth ambushes are 2 reasons I never cared for WvW.
    It can still happen in the gamemode but at least the mobility gap between classes has been diminished thanks to the mount.
    Now everyone has the freedom to choose to fight or flight rather than being forced into it constantly by classes that can easily get away from you when you gain the upper hand thanks to a cheap mechanical advantage.. stealth and shadowstep/teleports.

    It hasn't killed these tactics.. it's just made them more difficult to pull of solo and that's a good thing.
    WvW should never be an easy place for a solo player to go around killing.. it's a massive multiplayer pvp game mode for a reason.

    You are talking about the classes with the lowest sustain. You do realize that right? Thief is the worst profession in the game 1v1 imo. They have mobility because they lack elsewhere. The fact you weren't able to keep up with them tells me you likely played a class more than capable of dealing with them. People seem to not believe that mobility is an important factor when balancing.

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Mounts could be changed into a timed summon - 10-15s per summon with 5-8s CD. This is enough to get to their destination whilst giving a sense of urgency and risk still, and people have more chance to catch them instead of the mount running circles around groups of people or singles trying to stop them.

  • Grim West.3194Grim West.3194 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2019

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @DeadlySynz.3471 said:
    Warclaw has killed ganking not roaming. People are often confusing roaming for ganking. You can still roam around on warclaw, flip camps and attack towers with a small group. You can also attack other small groups trying to take camps or towers once they're dismounted. You can also duel with other like roamers who have warclaw, just jump off and start attacking each other.

    Hiding in stealth ready to ambush someone, or killing them on the way to their group or objective isn't roaming, it's ganking. Especially if the player isn't sitting in a build capable of fending off someone in a single or small group setting. That is what warclaw basically ended, and thankfully it did. We're likely to find more pve players starting to filter into WvW now because they can confidently get to their groups and participate.

    Just as Magnuzone pointed out, play against people interested in fighting you (as they likely are in a build made to do so), problem solved. Ganking is not roaming.

    then what do you do if you see an enemy player, cheer? Because it's certainly not engaging or "ganking" by the sounds of it lol

    "Ganking" comes with the roaming territory as it does with zergs who "gank" the solo player trying to take a sentry.

    Ganking isn't dead. You just have to work harder for it. Gankers don't like to work though.

  • tobin.6754tobin.6754 Member ✭✭

    @CETheLucid.3964 said:

    @tobin.6754 said:
    If you get one shot by de/mesmer on any of the meta zerg class, you're just bad, maybe get good?

    Your entire build depends on catching someone unaware. You can dismount them easily. You're BSing (or seriously terrible and the mount wouldn't play any part). It's just that it spends your burst so when they're off the mount you can't do your cheese properly.

    They'll melt you instead. Frankly if you were better at your craft and a bit more flexible, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

    What? I think you misunderstood. I play different classes, both zerg and roam , depend on the time of day. I can't even remember the last time someone 1 shot/ganked me on a zerg class build. And I roam mostly on a warrior.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Grim West.3194 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @DeadlySynz.3471 said:
    Warclaw has killed ganking not roaming. People are often confusing roaming for ganking. You can still roam around on warclaw, flip camps and attack towers with a small group. You can also attack other small groups trying to take camps or towers once they're dismounted. You can also duel with other like roamers who have warclaw, just jump off and start attacking each other.

    Hiding in stealth ready to ambush someone, or killing them on the way to their group or objective isn't roaming, it's ganking. Especially if the player isn't sitting in a build capable of fending off someone in a single or small group setting. That is what warclaw basically ended, and thankfully it did. We're likely to find more pve players starting to filter into WvW now because they can confidently get to their groups and participate.

    Just as Magnuzone pointed out, play against people interested in fighting you (as they likely are in a build made to do so), problem solved. Ganking is not roaming.

    then what do you do if you see an enemy player, cheer? Because it's certainly not engaging or "ganking" by the sounds of it lol

    "Ganking" comes with the roaming territory as it does with zergs who "gank" the solo player trying to take a sentry.

    Ganking isn't dead. You just have to work harder for it. Gankers don't like to work though.

    Nah just switch toon, otherwise if I stayed on Tempest then yea I would have to work harder for it and youre right as its much easier to roll a 1 shot build or condi tank build, gotta adapt.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2019

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @DeadlySynz.3471 said:
    Warclaw has killed ganking not roaming. People are often confusing roaming for ganking. You can still roam around on warclaw, flip camps and attack towers with a small group. You can also attack other small groups trying to take camps or towers once they're dismounted. You can also duel with other like roamers who have warclaw, just jump off and start attacking each other.

    Hiding in stealth ready to ambush someone, or killing them on the way to their group or objective isn't roaming, it's ganking. Especially if the player isn't sitting in a build capable of fending off someone in a single or small group setting. That is what warclaw basically ended, and thankfully it did. We're likely to find more pve players starting to filter into WvW now because they can confidently get to their groups and participate.

    Just as Magnuzone pointed out, play against people interested in fighting you (as they likely are in a build made to do so), problem solved. Ganking is not roaming.

    then what do you do if you see an enemy player, cheer? Because it's certainly not engaging or "ganking" by the sounds of it lol

    "Ganking" comes with the roaming territory as it does with zergs who "gank" the solo player trying to take a sentry.

    I don't think that's accurate ... how many time I've seen a ganker pop from stealth to one shot someone in a roaming group taking a camp or sentry ... way fewer than I've seen they pick of solo runners. Why? Because gankers are in it for the easy, no -skill kills and the easy kills are more likely the lone player running to a fight over open territory or pinch points where gankers prey on them.

    Honestly, I think that's the whole point ... the 'easy' kill rewards now match with the risks. There shouldn't be many easy kill opportunities; they aren't literally going to set themselves up by running in front of you anymore.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2019

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @DeadlySynz.3471 said:
    Warclaw has killed ganking not roaming. People are often confusing roaming for ganking. You can still roam around on warclaw, flip camps and attack towers with a small group. You can also attack other small groups trying to take camps or towers once they're dismounted. You can also duel with other like roamers who have warclaw, just jump off and start attacking each other.

    Hiding in stealth ready to ambush someone, or killing them on the way to their group or objective isn't roaming, it's ganking. Especially if the player isn't sitting in a build capable of fending off someone in a single or small group setting. That is what warclaw basically ended, and thankfully it did. We're likely to find more pve players starting to filter into WvW now because they can confidently get to their groups and participate.

    Just as Magnuzone pointed out, play against people interested in fighting you (as they likely are in a build made to do so), problem solved. Ganking is not roaming.

    then what do you do if you see an enemy player, cheer? Because it's certainly not engaging or "ganking" by the sounds of it lol

    "Ganking" comes with the roaming territory as it does with zergs who "gank" the solo player trying to take a sentry.

    I don't think that's accurate ... how many time I've seen a ganker pop from stealth to one shot someone in a roaming group taking a camp or sentry ... zero. Because they are in it for the easy kill and the easy kill aren't players in a group ... it's the lone player running to a fight over open territory or pinch points where gankers prey on them.

    Honestly, I think that's the whole point ... the 'easy' kill rewards now match with the risks. In otherwords ... you're only going to catch the high risk players on a gank for the easy kills you want; the risk profile should be determined by the defender, not the attacker.

    I dunno I think its pretty risky to tap an enemy keep and float between the spawn and keep for the purpose of ganking people..
    Im a weirdo though, like yesterday I held pang solo against about 10 or so people over the course of half hour then when I died, I held the sentry near Mendons for about 20 minutes before tapping red keep and spawn camping for another half hour there..
    I was ganked by the zerg eventually, but that window was long enough for them to lose a T3 tower..

    Am I a dirty roamer, or a dirty ganker? Zerg ganked me anyway so Im curious why zergers have the moral high ground in this.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2019

    I dunno what you are, but based on the scenario you presented, it doesn't sound to me like you have much of an issue with mounts there ...

    Hey, you can tap and lure all you like still. If people are coming out to find you, they are LOOKING for a fight. Should be easy if you catch one if your an experienced ganker and they are easy kill noobs.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • CETheLucid.3964CETheLucid.3964 Member ✭✭✭

    @tobin.6754 said:

    @CETheLucid.3964 said:

    @tobin.6754 said:
    If you get one shot by de/mesmer on any of the meta zerg class, you're just bad, maybe get good?

    Your entire build depends on catching someone unaware. You can dismount them easily. You're BSing (or seriously terrible and the mount wouldn't play any part). It's just that it spends your burst so when they're off the mount you can't do your cheese properly.

    They'll melt you instead. Frankly if you were better at your craft and a bit more flexible, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

    I think you misunderstood.

    Easy to misunderstand when you frame the context as de/mesmer. Noted.

    @GaijinGuy.8476 said:
    I don't complain when a zerg steamrolls me (I wouldn't consider this ganking) so I don't see why someone from a havoc group or zerg should complain if someone jumps them while heading back to their group.

    Yet this thread exists as mostly gankers complaining they can't secure a kill because new things are scary and adapting is hard. But that's the nature of people I suppose, right?

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2019

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    I dunno what you are, but based on the scenario you presented, it doesn't sound to me like you have much of an issue with mounts there ...

    Hey, you can tap and lure all you like still. If people are coming out to find you, they are LOOKING for a fight. Should be easy if you catch one if your an experienced ganker and they are easy kill noobs.

    not really no, just adapted is all...
    Instead of playing Tempest open field, I now play stealth builds around enemy spawns or stick to overused locations with lots of human traffic

    currently trying to convince a scrapper friend to join me so we can set up stealth ballistas on the fly to make ganking easier

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion

  • Drecien.4508Drecien.4508 Member ✭✭✭

    Learn to play. Many mesmers and deadeye dismount me sometimes and I just stand there so they get a quick kill and I can go back to what I was doing. Ruining their fun hopefully.

    30 Beautiful new mount skins?! Anet take my money!

  • @CETheLucid.3964 said:

    Yet this thread exists as mostly gankers complaining they can't secure a kill because new things are scary and adapting is hard. But that's the nature of people I suppose, right?

    I don't have a problem with people being able to run away, I like the mount. As a ranger I am able to get people off their mounts sometimes. Other times I can't but I don't complain about it I just say "oh well" and move on. I have a problem with people labeling everyone who kills them/tries to kill them a ganker.

    It's an all out war mode. There are all types of people. Some builds are cheesy (and very frustrating) that excel at 1v1 or "one-shotting" unsuspecting players but will get steamrolled by larger groups. Some builds are designed to excel in a larger group environment, benefiting others and providing benefits to others and are successful at taking down larger groups but struggle when with smaller numbers.

    Why all the salt? You got killed in WvW? Oh well, just move on. It is a PvP environment where you kill other players after all.

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Drecien.4508 said:
    Learn to play.
    I just stand there

  • CETheLucid.3964CETheLucid.3964 Member ✭✭✭

    @GaijinGuy.8476 said:

    @CETheLucid.3964 said:

    Yet this thread exists as mostly gankers complaining they can't secure a kill because new things are scary and adapting is hard. But that's the nature of people I suppose, right?

    I don't have a problem with people being able to run away, I like the mount. As a ranger I am able to get people off their mounts sometimes. Other times I can't but I don't complain about it I just say "oh well" and move on. I have a problem with people labeling everyone who kills them/tries to kill them a ganker.

    It's an all out war mode. There are all types of people. Some builds are cheesy (and very frustrating) that excel at 1v1 or "one-shotting" unsuspecting players but will get steamrolled by larger groups. Some builds are designed to excel in a larger group environment, benefiting others and providing benefits to others and are successful at taking down larger groups but struggle when with smaller numbers.

    Why all the salt? You got killed in WvW? Oh well, just move on. It is a PvP environment where you kill other players after all.

    You're not wrong. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    Well said.

  • Drecien.4508Drecien.4508 Member ✭✭✭

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:

    @Drecien.4508 said:
    Learn to play.
    I just stand there

    Not gonna give gankers a fun time. 😁

    30 Beautiful new mount skins?! Anet take my money!

  • @Drecien.4508 said:
    Learn to play. Many mesmers and deadeye dismount me sometimes and I just stand there so they get a quick kill and I can go back to what I was doing. Ruining their fun hopefully.

    This is the "oh well, just move on" attitude that more people should have. Sometimes not so nice things happen and you get killed. Oh well, just move on.
    And don't go making fun of people like this, I can understand where this person is coming from with their attitude towards mesmers and deadeyes. They can be very frustrating to deal with if you are not built/prepared to take them on.

  • @CETheLucid.3964 said:
    You're not wrong. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    Well said.

    Thanks :)

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @GaijinGuy.8476 said:

    This is the "oh well, just move on" attitude that more people should have. Sometimes not so nice things happen and you get killed. Oh well, just move on.
    And don't go making fun of people like this, I can understand where this person is coming from with their attitude towards mesmers and deadeyes. They can be very frustrating to deal with if you are not built/prepared to take them on.

    I accept all my deaths, and then I become better able to deal with them the next time. I'm just surprised no one wants to improve, this game is awesome if people give a chance to try every single thing like all kinds of builds, all the classes, all the weaponsets, and if things become too easy for people who think they are at top notch level, try using traits or gear that would be gimping yourselves in order for a challenge (once in a blue moon you'll see that naked person running around fighting haha). Try all kinds of roles, don't stick to one. Accepting losses and learning from them and how to deal with them can lead one to becoming better, even if it takes a long time. I would never consider myself a zerger or roamer, I wouldn't want to limit myself from opportunities at playing in all kinds of ways. I think right now though, in the state that the game is, it does little to make people want to improve or even motivate them. Well, that could be both the game or the players fault. As it is, it will continue to become an easier game to play and it will become too simplified for most people to enjoy.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    I dunno what you are, but based on the scenario you presented, it doesn't sound to me like you have much of an issue with mounts there ...

    Hey, you can tap and lure all you like still. If people are coming out to find you, they are LOOKING for a fight. Should be easy if you catch one if your an experienced ganker and they are easy kill noobs.

    not really no, just adapted is all...
    Instead of playing Tempest open field, I now play stealth builds around enemy spawns or stick to overused locations with lots of human traffic

    currently trying to convince a scrapper friend to join me so we can set up stealth ballistas on the fly to make ganking easier

    Hey, that's how good MMO players do ... adapting to game change is necessary in MMO's. You're an example of how solo roamers can adapt to the game situation and still get value from the game modes they like playing.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2019

    @reddie.5861 said:

    @derd.6413 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:
    Mounts could be changed into a timed summon - 10-15s per summon with 5-8s CD. This is enough to get to their destination whilst giving a sense of urgency and risk still, and people have more chance to catch them instead of the mount running circles around groups of people or singles trying to stop them.

    If we just want mounts to be a travel tool, automatic dismount on entering combat end of story. Much simpler implementation than any cds.

    or ppl could try to adapt to the changes instead of crying to the forums that their deadeye/mesmer can no longer one shot ppl uninterested in small scale fights (and don't have the build/gear to do so anyway)

    do small scale fights even exist nowadays?
    warclaw has destroyed it for glass cannon classes and dont give me kitten that it didnt.
    i play thief main i cant do a kitten to stop some1 from getting off his mount.

    i played rev the other day and i could just stop people from capping camp by constantly running rounds, they cant mount up they cant catch me they cant do anything at the end i was the one winning the fight cus i just kept running untill reinforcement came.
    yay the joy?

    warclaw needs speed nerf to the point a swiftness character has equal speed to warclaw, why should HoT/Core players not be able to play WvW proper?
    HP nerf
    remove 1 dodge bar (if it was up to me 2 of them 1 dodge enough :))
    no CC immunity

    do the above 4 things and u got it balanced.

    o btw i never really had problem getting 1 banged by mesmer/thief, yes im thief main im kitten thief also according to you hiding all day long.
    nope i barely ever used hide on my thief actually i was roaming on staff thief so no point to hide all the time.
    there is no thief/mesmer in perma hide waiting along road for you to pass by they saw you, most of the time u could have seen them also u could predict a attack coming u could prepare but u didnt.

    this is like me saying well i play thief and well i run backwards over map and everytime a big fat blob runs over me.
    give me a mount to run faster backwards and has like 200k hp so i can survive and can keep roaming...
    u need pay attention to your surroundings this why i dont understand some people, if u dont wanna pay attention go play PvE in PvP games u always need keep your eyes open for anything.

    for record ofcourse i play scourge also ones in a while and again i never had problem being ganked so bad by thief or mesmer, maybe u should try play thief/mesmer know the play style know their weakness play with it.
    thief is actually not so hard to keep away from you as scourge but since most scourges go like this F1 F2 F3 F4 F5 run run > get ganked by thief again > heal > spam some shades again > die by thief.

    why would u spam shades? thief is like a freaking paper he wont come near u when u poo out dmg, put marks under your kitten not all of them cus first mark he will dodge so use mark 2? or 4? one of them has low cd let him dodge then pop marks under your kitten or maybe even wells.
    yes a good thief wont die from scourge but he will most likely kitten off cus ur not being the easy quick kill he was hoping to get.

    gw2 isnt that hard if thief/mesmer are your problem its because youre that quick and easy kill for them you should just wait for your commander to return so u can hide deep in ur blob safe from these kitten thiefs / mesmers / rangers also i suppose?

    as far as i've seen roaming is mostly fine since the change, it's gankers whom are mostly affected. you can stop projecting

    I Have No friends, so I Must pug

  • Wafu.9247Wafu.9247 Member ✭✭
    edited March 13, 2019

    .redacted.

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Wafu.9247 said:
    All these people complaining about getting 'ganked' like they arent playing a player v player game mode smh, its the risk you take when running a zerg build . People are just going to adapt their builds/strategies more for warclaw and ganking will be fine

    true, but 1) could they adapt without crying on the forums about how anet needs to delete the mount first.

    and secondly: when they adapt, the exchanges between zerglings and gankers will be less one sided.

    I Have No friends, so I Must pug

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm pretty sure roamers also have access to the mount so there is no such thing as unfairness. Anyway, just relax guys, ANet will surely soon give you a gold sink that will counter the mount. I'd bet on a WvW trap blueprint that dismount traped players.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @derd.6413 said:

    @Wafu.9247 said:
    All these people complaining about getting 'ganked' like they arent playing a player v player game mode smh, its the risk you take when running a zerg build . People are just going to adapt their builds/strategies more for warclaw and ganking will be fine

    true, but 1) could they adapt without crying on the forums about how anet needs to delete the mount first.

    and secondly: when they adapt, the exchanges between zerglings and gankers will be less one sided.

    maybe not so much delete the mount but certainly allow for CC and such..
    That would go a long way for build diversity as I could use Tempest again to CC someone off thier mount.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Duckota.4769 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @Magnuzone.8395 said:
    Play against ppl who are interested in fighting you, problem solved. Noone likes a ganker.

    Agreed, ganking and stealth ambushes are 2 reasons I never cared for WvW.
    It can still happen in the gamemode but at least the mobility gap between classes has been diminished thanks to the mount.
    Now everyone has the freedom to choose to fight or flight rather than being forced into it constantly by classes that can easily get away from you when you gain the upper hand thanks to a cheap mechanical advantage.. stealth and shadowstep/teleports.

    It hasn't killed these tactics.. it's just made them more difficult to pull of solo and that's a good thing.
    WvW should never be an easy place for a solo player to go around killing.. it's a massive multiplayer pvp game mode for a reason.

    You are talking about the classes with the lowest sustain. You do realize that right? Thief is the worst profession in the game 1v1 imo. They have mobility because they lack elsewhere. The fact you weren't able to keep up with them tells me you likely played a class more than capable of dealing with them. People seem to not believe that mobility is an important factor when balancing.

    Yes but you don't need sustain when you can stunlock someone to death from behind within a couple of seconds and have almost 100% success rate at running away if your ambush fails while your victim has no way to get away from you aside from forcing you to run by turning the tide.

    The Warclaw only makes it more difficult for you to trap someone in combat.. once they're locked in they can't remount and flee.
    a couple of thieves are still more than capable of pulling off gank ambushes even on a mounted player.

<13456
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