Warclaw kills Roaming

[DemonSeed.3528]

@schloumou.3982 said:

@derd.6413 said:it's not like you can easily switch between a zerg and a roam build

Since the 2015 trait system rework it's like 5 clicks...but i understand that it is not easy for the majority of the playerbase when i read through threads like this.

The QOL change that they gave which we asked for ages ago to pop up straight to traits in hero panel was nice as well, which makes things easier. I carry a few sets of armor and weapons all the time for different situations. The problem I think is people not wanting to learn, adapt, and be flexible but the biggest problem of all I think is map awareness. If my destination consists of a lot of open areas and less terrain for escape options, I will think ahead and change my build appropriately. Anyone experienced enough should know trouble spots on the map that invite them to be killed. If they don't have legendary gear, just get an exo set that will help aid in escaping or tanking the dmg, unfortunately many just don't want to think and deal with simple solutions.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@LetoII.3782 said:

@juno.1840 said:

If you don't want fair fights, then

own

it! Say you want your ganks, because that's what all this whining is about.

There is no ganking in WvW, the whole area is a pvp zone. Expecting to effortlessly travel in such an area with no risk is the absurdity.

This ^

[schloumou.3982]

@DemonSeed.3528 said:

@schloumou.3982 said:

@derd.6413 said:it's not like you can easily switch between a zerg and a roam build

Since the 2015 trait system rework it's like 5 clicks...but i understand that it is not easy for the majority of the playerbase when i read through threads like this.

The QOL change that they gave which we asked for ages ago to pop up straight to traits in hero panel was nice as well, which makes things easier. I carry a few sets of armor and weapons all the time for different situations. The problem I think is people not wanting to learn, adapt, and be flexible but the biggest problem of all I think is map awareness. If my destination consists of a lot of open areas and less terrain for escape options, I will think ahead and change my build appropriately. Anyone experienced enough should know trouble spots on the map that invite them to be killed. If they don't have legendary gear, just get an exo set that will help aid in escaping or tanking the dmg, unfortunately many just don't want to think and deal with simple solutions.

Frankly, I think it is a big part of the problem. In my opinion the balance and build diversity was better before the trait revamp. It got dumbed down. And it was part of a major path Gw2 took from there, making everything less complex and easier accessible, catering to people that don't really want to put in effort to improve. And now we are left with a playerbase that complains about beeing killed in an open PvP mode. That's ok if it's the vision of the team, but at one point you have to face that those games get boring really quick. I for example zerged in publics, GvGed a bit, and lately roamed most of the time on different builds. Now that roaming is gone i switched to minstrel scrapper and zerg fight, but i can already see how it becomes boring for me. And when that happens I will just play another game that offers maybe more diversity.

[DemonSeed.3528]

@schloumou.3982 said:

@DemonSeed.3528 said:

@schloumou.3982 said:

@derd.6413 said:it's not like you can easily switch between a zerg and a roam build

Since the 2015 trait system rework it's like 5 clicks...but i understand that it is not easy for the majority of the playerbase when i read through threads like this.

The QOL change that they gave which we asked for ages ago to pop up straight to traits in hero panel was nice as well, which makes things easier. I carry a few sets of armor and weapons all the time for different situations. The problem I think is people not wanting to learn, adapt, and be flexible but the biggest problem of all I think is map awareness. If my destination consists of a lot of open areas and less terrain for escape options, I will think ahead and change my build appropriately. Anyone experienced enough should know trouble spots on the map that invite them to be killed. If they don't have legendary gear, just get an exo set that will help aid in escaping or tanking the dmg, unfortunately many just don't want to think and deal with simple solutions.

Frankly, I think it is a big part of the problem. In my opinion the balance and build diversity was better before the trait revamp. It got dumbed down. And it was part of a major path Gw2 took from there, making everything less complex and easier accessible, catering to people that don't really want to put in effort to improve. And now we are left with a playerbase that complains about beeing killed in an open PvP mode. That's ok if it's the vision of the team, but at one point you have to face that those games get boring really quick. I for example zerged in publics, GvGed a bit, and lately roamed most of the time on different builds. Now that roaming is gone i switched to minstrel scrapper and zerg fight, but i can allready see how it becomes boring for me. And when that happens I will just play another game that offers maybe more diversity.

I am in agreement with this - and am coincidentally on my scrapper atm :P

[lodjur.1284]

Can't stop laughing at self proclaimed roamers whining about the mount, I never play with a group size of above 5, usually 1-3, and engage every fight that is even remotely close to being possible (except for smaller groups than us)

The mount so far for me has made me spend less time running which is the most boring part of wvw.

Allowed me to get away from the massive omniblobs.

Meant that I didn't have to get reset upon 15+ times in a row until I get bored/unfocused enough to die.

All of these things are great for roaming. The only people who whine about the mount are the people who try to beat you by boring you to death with a super linear build, that this strategy gets nerfed is just a good thing.

[Straegen.2938]

@Woody Woody.8356 said:Even if Anet doesnt agree that roaming is actually thing, me playing 6 years wvw i can tell you it is what me and friends have been doing most, just running arround, duelling and outnumbering. The warclaw totally destroys that, since no single class or build is able to deal 12 k dmg to a guy that is fater than you, that has 3 dodges and has 12k hp. The only change that would make sense like in many other games is, that u get dismount once u get infight, easy as that!

change my mind

I believe Hard CC and the mount's maul skill should force a dismount. I also believe in WvW the mount's health should be cut in half. That said 2+ gankers are having no problem getting free kills on mounted players. That engi blow up from stealth is an insta-gib.

[Aeolus.3615]

@witcher.3197 said:

@TheQuickFox.3826 said:Warclaw greatly improved roaming for me, as it increased the chance to arrive to remote locations in one piece. (Like far away camps)

That's not what roaming means..

players need to be clever to cut u off from reach far camps... how dare u.

:}

[schloumou.3982]

@lodjur.1284 said:Can't stop laughing at self proclaimed roamers whining about the mount, I never play with a group size of above 5, usually 1-3, and engage every fight that is even remotely close to being possible (except for smaller groups than us)

Great sense of humor. You obviously enjoy fighting outnumbered and take pride in that but refuse to give anyone else the chance to do so.

[juno.1840]

@LetoII.3782 said:

@juno.1840 said:

If you don't want fair fights, then

own

it! Say you want your ganks, because that's what all this whining is about.

There is no ganking in WvW, the whole area is a pvp zone. Expecting to effortlessly travel in such an area with no risk is the absurdity.

Yes there's ganking -- pretending it's not a thing is being absurd. I guess you don't want to own it eh? Do you whine when you get mowed over by a 50-man map blob... you shouldn't because it's ok (the whole area is a pvp zone).

If you were serious about fights, you'd PvP where the build options and arenas are constrained. You know... more balanced fights that might actually require skill to win.

WvW allows any cheese build you can come up with. If it makes your feel better, just pretend warclaw is another variation to deal with. I'm sorry it doesn't fit your play style... well actually no I'm not. The game doesn't need more toxic behavior.

[Sugar Min.5834]

The only thing Warclaws kill is ganking. I believed 99% of the hates come from players who main thief or mes with cheesy build solely meant for trolling or ganking roamers.

Warclaw brought life and fun into my WvW play. I supported ANet by buying the Armitice Bastion Pass and Warclaw skins.

Bye bye gankers...

[Obtena.7952]

@"Farout.8207" said:Wow, all the snowflakes commenting about the "scary gankers" are making me realize the game mode is truly on its last breath. Do you really believe you should be able to traverse the map, back to your zerg, uncontested? Do you really feel it is unsportsmanlike conduct for another player to kill you in a PVP zone? Maybe they should just allow Teleport to Friend to work in WvW. That way you can always port right back to your blob without ever having to see another player..

I think you need to be careful here. You assume that there is all the sudden all these people that don't like being ganked ... I can assure you that almost NO ONE likes it, even if you are a noob, a part time WvW dabbler or a hardcore WvW player. I can also assure you that most people would prefer getting back to the action faster than slower and would not consider being one-shotted from stealth a very 'exciting' aspect of WvW. These aren't complaints about sportmanlike conduct, they are complaints about being engaged in the game ... no one is complaining about being killed 1 vs. 1, especially in a fair fight. What we are talking about here is arguably not engaging at all, which is what makes it so unpleasant ... and so unworthy of being preserved as a 'method' of play in WvW.

If I just saw a lone guy running at me, probably with the intention to kill me, that gives me the ability to make a decision; fight or run. The most egregious part of what we are talking about here is there is no choice given in a gank scenario. You just die, pretty much instant. Anet might as well just place random, multiple instadeath traps around WvW for EVERYONE if the argument is that some randomness of taking out a player here or there has some real, significant impact on WvW results.

[DemonSeed.3528]

Remember when the game used to punish you for dying? Yeah, no...

[tobin.6754]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Farout.8207" said:Wow, all the snowflakes commenting about the "scary gankers" are making me realize the game mode is truly on its last breath. Do you really believe you should be able to traverse the map, back to your zerg, uncontested? Do you really feel it is unsportsmanlike conduct for another player to kill you in a PVP zone? Maybe they should just allow Teleport to Friend to work in WvW. That way you can always port right back to your blob without ever having to see another player..

I think you need to be careful here. You assume that there is all the sudden all these people that don't like being ganked ... I can assure you that almost NO ONE likes it, even if you are a noob, a part time WvW dabbler or a hardcore WvW player. I can also assure you that most people would prefer getting back to the action faster than slower and would not consider being one-shotted from stealth a very 'exciting' aspect of WvW. These aren't complaints about sportmanlike conduct, they are complaints about being engaged in the game ... no one is complaining about being killed 1 vs. 1, especially in a fair fight. What we are talking about here is arguably not engaging at all, which is what makes it so unpleasant ... and so unworthy of being preserved as a 'method' of play in WvW.

If I just saw a lone guy running at me, probably with the intention to kill me, that gives me the ability to make a decision; fight or run. The most egregious part of what we are talking about here is there is no choice given in a gank scenario. You just die, pretty much instant. Anet might as well just place random, multiple instadeath traps around WvW for EVERYONE if the argument is that some randomness of taking out a player here or there has some real, significant impact on WvW results.

hardcore wvw players don't die instantly, only people that do are squishy "gankers" and full zerker pvers.

[tobin.6754]

@"juno.1840" said:Yes there's ganking -- pretending it's not a thing is being absurd. I guess you don't want to own it eh? Do you whine when you get mowed over by a 50-man map blob... you shouldn't because it's ok (the whole area is a pvp zone).

If you were serious about fights, you'd PvP where the build options and arenas are constrained. You know... more balanced fights that might actually require skill to win.

WvW allows any cheese build you can come up with. If it makes your feel better, just pretend warclaw is another variation to deal with. I'm sorry it doesn't fit your play style... well actually no I'm not. The game doesn't need more toxic behavior.

There is nothing about WvW that's fair, from out number to server stacking to cheese build. Maybe you should take your own advice and go play PVP where it's "balance"

[Sansar.1302]

@tobin.6754 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Farout.8207" said:Wow, all the snowflakes commenting about the "scary gankers" are making me realize the game mode is truly on its last breath. Do you really believe you should be able to traverse the map, back to your zerg, uncontested? Do you really feel it is unsportsmanlike conduct for another player to kill you in a PVP zone? Maybe they should just allow Teleport to Friend to work in WvW. That way you can always port right back to your blob without ever having to see another player..

I think you need to be careful here. You assume that there is all the sudden all these people that don't like being ganked ... I can assure you that almost NO ONE likes it, even if you are a noob, a part time WvW dabbler or a hardcore WvW player. I can also assure you that most people would prefer getting back to the action faster than slower and would not consider being one-shotted from stealth a very 'exciting' aspect of WvW. These aren't complaints about sportmanlike conduct, they are complaints about being engaged in the game ... no one is complaining about being killed 1 vs. 1, especially in a fair fight. What we are talking about here is arguably not engaging at all, which is what makes it so unpleasant ... and so unworthy of being preserved as a 'method' of play in WvW.

If I just saw a lone guy running at me, probably with the intention to kill me, that gives me the ability to make a decision; fight or run. The most egregious part of what we are talking about here is there is no choice given in a gank scenario. You just die, pretty much instant. Anet might as well just place random, multiple instadeath traps around WvW for EVERYONE if the argument is that some randomness of taking out a player here or there has some real, significant impact on WvW results.

hardcore wvw players don't die instantly, only people that do are squishy "gankers" and full zerker pvers.

This ^^ so trueI mainly solo roam on core ranger, butt i play alott in Squad to and have no problem going back to tag and geting kils on my way in full blob gear on my herald (got 2 swords i use when running back intead off hammer)

[Nimon.7840]

@Woody Woody.8356 said:Even if Anet doesnt agree that roaming is actually thing, me playing 6 years wvw i can tell you it is what me and friends have been doing most, just running arround, duelling and outnumbering. The warclaw totally destroys that, since no single class or build is able to deal 12 k dmg to a guy that is fater than you, that has 3 dodges and has 12k hp. The only change that would make sense like in many other games is, that u get dismount once u get infight, easy as that!

change my mind

It's actually pretty easy to dismount people, especially if you are running in small group

[Sansar.1302]

that would mean sevral ppl attack 1 to dissmount him while maby rest of his grp dont see it, feel they are too few or is too far in front.so all this Mount does is actualy promote the bad ganking and hurting the good solo/smale scale roaming

[Dawdler.8521]

@Sansar.1302 said:that would mean sevral ppl attack 1 to dissmount him while maby rest of his grp dont see it, feel they are too few or is too far in front.so all this Mount does is actualy promote the bad ganking and hurting the good solo/smale scale roamingThat really depends on how you look at it.

You could also say it promotes proper movement, awareness of other players in your party and attacking the enemy before they attack you.

I dont question the impact this have on solo roamers. IMO the mounts totally change the playing field there and cause people to simply not engage. Once you do, combat speed vs a mount running away is no contest.

But smallscale? Smallscale is fine. IMO mounts have improved it from a pure battlefield movement perspective - you can reach hotspots faster and reinforce comrades in combat. Thats a good thing. The only problem there is the stomp ability, but in practice it doesnt start to affect combat once you reach higher numbers (for smallscale you need everyone doing damage).

[LetoII.3782]

@juno.1840 said:

@LetoII.3782 said:

@juno.1840 said:

If you don't want fair fights, then

own

it! Say you want your ganks, because that's what all this whining is about.

There is no ganking in WvW, the whole area is a pvp zone. Expecting to effortlessly travel in such an area with no risk is the absurdity.

Yes there's ganking -- pretending it's not a thing is being absurd. I guess you don't want to own it eh?

There are outnumbered fights, It's the nature of open world pvp. I accept the situation as-is and I'd rather die than skip content because the odds of survival are negligible.

Do you whine when you get mowed over by a 50-man map blob... you shouldn't because it's ok (the whole area is a pvp zone).

Nope.And it happens a lot.

If you were serious about fights, you'd PvP where the build options and arenas are constrained. You know... more balanced fights that might actually require skill to win.

I have a YouTube channel full of Hunt doing outnumbered fights up to a 1:5 ratio against.

WvW allows any cheese build you can come up with. If it makes your feel better, just pretend warclaw is another variation to deal with. I'm sorry it doesn't fit your play style... well actually no I'm not. The game doesn't need more toxic behavior.

Not sure how explaining the nature of open pvp is toxic? It's not a safe space, any attempt to make it safer detracts from the excitement inherent in a dangerous situation.

[Farout.8207]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Farout.8207" said:Wow, all the snowflakes commenting about the "scary gankers" are making me realize the game mode is truly on its last breath. Do you really believe you should be able to traverse the map, back to your zerg, uncontested? Do you really feel it is unsportsmanlike conduct for another player to kill you in a PVP zone? Maybe they should just allow Teleport to Friend to work in WvW. That way you can always port right back to your blob without ever having to see another player..

I think you need to be careful here. You assume that there is all the sudden all these people that don't like being ganked ... I can assure you that almost NO ONE likes it, even if you are a noob, a part time WvW dabbler or a hardcore WvW player. I can also assure you that most people would prefer getting back to the action faster than slower and would not consider being one-shotted from stealth a very 'exciting' aspect of WvW. These aren't complaints about sportmanlike conduct, they are complaints about being engaged in the game ... no one is complaining about being killed 1 vs. 1, especially in a fair fight. What we are talking about here is arguably not engaging at all, which is what makes it so unpleasant ... and so unworthy of being preserved as a 'method' of play in WvW.

If I just saw a lone guy running at me, probably with the intention to kill me, that gives me the ability to make a decision; fight or run. The most egregious part of what we are talking about here is there is no choice given in a gank scenario. You just die, pretty much instant. Anet might as well just place random, multiple instadeath traps around WvW for EVERYONE if the argument is that some randomness of taking out a player here or there has some real, significant impact on WvW results.

Why do I need to be careful? I get so tired of the "ganker" term being thrown around so much. I've be whispered multiple time and raged at for being a ganker and I roam on core warrior. There has become this mentality that anyone that kills you 1v1 is a "ganker". My point is now the zerglings barely have to worry, they hit dodge a couple of times and are back to the relative safety of their 40 man blob while roamers/small group players are logging off.... for good. I think it's going to be bad for the game mode in the long run.

[Sylosi.6503]

@"nxsage.6578" said:It's really sad to watch PVE plebs talk about gankers, if you get ganked while running to your zerg..grow up and learn from your mistakes, think about what you could've done differently to survive that encounter and if you can't, stick with a group that will carry you.But please, don't talk about roaming.. Roaming isn't just about ganking, there's a certain thrill and skill involved in taking outnumbered fights and the warclaw just ruins that experience.What's the point of building mobility or even playing roaming classes or coming up with new builds if mounted players are 3x faster than you, immune to cc and have 10k+ hp?You don't get a cookie for being at last place in a race.. You either catch up or move to a different game. If you just want to tag mobs and run around without getting killed, I'm sure there are champ trains in Queensdale.I don't want roaming to die, I'm sad that a lot of my friends are leaving because they don't trust ANET to make the right changes. The worst part is that there isn't any work-around or adapting for roamers..roaming is pointless with mounts because it comes down to who's in combat and who isn't in combat..and that shouldn't be the deciding factor of who wins that fight.

It's really sad to watch PVE plebs talk about gankers, if you get ganked while running to your zerg..grow up and learn from your mistakes, think about what you could've done differently to survive that encounter and if you can't, stick with a group that will carry you.

I remember last time I watched Helseth stream (long ago), a bit after they let you queue for PvP from WvW, he went into WvW duelled a warrior, beat him, said "this is stupid, I can just kite him" and went back to PvP, that is the response of an actual PvP player to the "PvP" of WvW.

"Fighting" some guy in a zerg build is a one-way fight and is trash tier "PvP" with gameplay so bad you may as well go PvE, which is fine for bad PvE players, but for actual PvP'ers who want decent gameplay, nah.

Which is essentially why WvW and every other RvR game mode fails and why people try to do things like GvG, because whether you roam, guild raid or blob, most of the time you only get dull trash tier "PvP".

[Farout.8207]

@juno.1840 said:Do you whine when you get mowed over by a 50-man map blob... you shouldn't because it's ok (the whole area is a pvp zone).

I know of zero roamers that whine because they get run over by a Zerg. You want to know why? Because it is part of the game. It has been happening to them for six years. Hell, I get ran over at least once a night. We don't want or expect Anet to implement a crutch mechanic for us so it doesn't happen, we just deal with it.

[kokonut.7683]

@"Sylosi.6503" said:"Fighting" some guy in a zerg build is a one-way fight and is trash tier "PvP" with gameplay so bad you may as well go PvE, which is fine for bad PvE players, but for actual PvP'ers who want decent gameplay, nah.

Which is essentially why WvW and every other RvR game mode fails and why people try to do things like GvG, because whether you roam, guild raid or blob, most of the time you only get dull trash tier "PvP".

Who cares if some PvP streamer thinks WvW is dull PvP? The mode isn't for everyone and not all players are going to enjoy roaming..There is a huge part of every server that does enjoy roaming and the problem I'm addressing affects these players..

[juno.1840]

@tobin.6754 said:

@"juno.1840" said:Yes there's ganking -- pretending it's not a thing is being absurd. I guess you don't want to own it eh? Do you whine when you get mowed over by a 50-man map blob... you shouldn't because it's ok (the whole area is a pvp zone).

If you were serious about fights, you'd PvP where the build options and arenas are constrained. You know... more balanced fights that might actually require skill to win.

WvW allows any cheese build you can come up with. If it makes your feel better, just pretend warclaw is another variation to deal with. I'm sorry it doesn't fit your play style... well actually no I'm not. The game doesn't need more toxic behavior.

There is nothing about WvW that's fair, from out number to server stacking to cheese build. Maybe you should take your own advice and go play PVP where it's "balance"

If it's not fair then there's should be no complaints about warclaw -- discussion over.

If anything warclaw levels the playing field by limiting the effectiveness of high mobility cheese to gank.

If you really want to hunt down a player trying to get back to the action, just mount your own warclaw and chase them across the map until they dismount. Or like many others have said, adapt and develop new strategies. You know, work a bit for your cheese-build kill.

[StrawHat.2639]

@"Farout.8207" said:Wow, all the snowflakes commenting about the "scary gankers" are making me realize the game mode is truly on its last breath. Do you really believe you should be able to traverse the map, back to your zerg, uncontested? Do you really feel it is unsportsmanlike conduct for another player to kill you in a PVP zone? Maybe they should just allow Teleport to Friend to work in WvW. That way you can always port right back to your blob without ever having to see another player..

The worst part it blobs gank 1-10 people quite often...do we call them gankers also...A in a havok grp and we do everything from ninjas to ppt to ganking to to to…

Snowflakes...spring is here so no more snow flakes left soon all back in loot areas.