class switching is getting way too out of hand

4 out of 5 matches tonight i see opposing team class switching, literally took close to 4 hours just to get a win for daily, and just happened to be someone on my team switched while the opposing team didnt

teams should adjust engagement tactics rather than class switching to hard counter

the team that had switcher should penalised, something like will need extra points to win

switching during AT's shouldn't be allowed during the game.

I think switching is fine overall in terms before the game starts. In rank i think people shouldn't be allowed to swap but that's just me.

@zoopop.5630 said:switching during AT's shouldn't be allowed during the game.

I think switching is fine overall in terms before the game starts. In rank i think people shouldn't be allowed to swap but that's just me.

I'm okay with that idea only if:

• class population were more homogenized. No more 4 scourges or 4 mirages on 10 ppl (or another cheesy class at that moment in the future)
• there are way fewer outliers in term of matchmaking. E.G. Team with super weird comp vs meta comp

Either way it will be more a bad than a good thing if that happens. (imo)

@Nath Forge Tempete.1645 said:

@zoopop.5630 said:switching during AT's shouldn't be allowed during the game.

I think switching is fine overall in terms before the game starts. In rank i think people shouldn't be allowed to swap but that's just me.

• class population were more homogenized. No more 4 scourges or 4 mirages on 10 ppl (or another cheesy class at that moment in the future)
• there are way fewer outliers in term of matchmaking. E.G. Team with super weird comp vs meta comp

I can agree to that. I think stacking more then 2 of the same class is a bit of a force imo for Rank/At's/Monthly. Personally like to see 1 of the same spec only but that's just me.

It's a normal occurrence now to see people switching every game, and I agree; it's pretty lame. Basically a scuffed game of rock, paper, scissors to see who lands a counterpick before the set-up counter expires. Not only that, but sometimes; in doing this, people force themselves into a loading screen after the game's already started, so you go into the first teamfight down 1 player. The fix is as simple as locking you in to the character you actually queue'd with once the match starts.

So how is profession/character switching hurting you, exactly? Pretty sure your inability to win is largely due to you and not your opponents picking different professions. And remember, you and your team can do the same.

Class Switching is the Mind Game.

I dont like the tactic but it's no different than draft picks in other PvP ranked games..

you see what people are fielding and make adjustments to your favor if your knowledgeable or experienced to do so, it's apart of the game and can be deciding factor on who's the better player.

I disagree. Players should be encouraged to review the matchup and adjust their builds or swap classes to gain an advantage. It adds a layer of strategy to the game and it encourages players to learn more than just one class (aka encourages players to play more of the game).

@Exedore.6320 said:So how is profession/character switching hurting you, exactly? Pretty sure your inability to win is largely due to you and not your opponents picking different professions. And remember, you and your team can do the same.

I wouldn't say it is hurting them personally, but I agree with the logic of not switching after you have entered into the arena.

The simple reason is that the match maker tries to distribute the allocation of professions per team as evenly as possible to make the most balanced and fair match. When a player then randomly changes after that process the balance is thrown out of sync.

Simply put: don't duke the system! If you que up as 'x' you should be expected to play with 'x' for that game. If you don't want to play with that profession choose 'y' before you que.

To sum up i am in favour of Anet removing this swapping feature to make games more balanced and enjoyable.

I actually like it, since it encouraged me to learn another class to fight against deadeyes. Now I love guardians, even after the nerfs. But the other specs...I can't seem to embrace any of the other classes... Wanna try thief sometime, because of class switching. I often have games with only kinda slow classes and no one feels responsible for rotating. Switching to thief would help the situation.But I don't like how class switching gets used to get some advantage even before the game begins, it's so cheesy. Ppl queuing as a thief and switching to scrapper. Lately had a game where 3 ppl switched like immediatly before even seeing the other team comp, the classes in both teams then were totally different. To our disadvantage. The only chance is to learn more classes to counter that behavior.

@"James.1065" said:The simple reason is that the match maker tries to distribute the allocation of professions per team as evenly as possible to make the most balanced and fair match. When a player then randomly changes after that process the balance is thrown out of sync.The matchmaker doesn't do that. The only profession-related thing it does is have a small preference against multiple of the same profession on a team - which is far outweighed by matching people of roughly equal rating.

To sum up i am in favour of Anet removing this swapping feature to make games more balanced and enjoyable.In other words, you believe that ANet's matchmaker can do a better job of creating "balanced" matches than players? Yet the matchmaker can't tell the difference between a firebrand support guardian or a core DPS medi guard? Or a scrapper vs. a holosmith. Or defensive boonbeast vs. pewpew soulbeast.

The problem is that the matchmaker will put together a team of DPS vs. a well-rounded team which includes DPS and support, team fight and side node. Swapping after the start of the match lets players address that imbalance. And players can do it far better than any algorithm.

@James.1065 said:

@Exedore.6320 said:So how is profession/character switching hurting you, exactly? Pretty sure your inability to win is largely due to you and not your opponents picking different professions. And remember, you and your team can do the same.

If that is indeed what the match maker does, it is not doing a particularly good job of it. Terrible, in fact. I only switch when I bump into a near copy of what I'm running, role-wise. I very often end up in matches with another scourge/thief/what-have-you, and am switching more often than not.

This is a needed feature, especially in soloQ. I've even ended up in matches with two support firebrands. The balance is not thrown out of whack because everyone can switch. I highly doubt removing the ability to switch would have any positive results. I do enjoy the pre-match planning, too.

@Exedore.6320 said:

@"James.1065" said:The simple reason is that the match maker tries to distribute the allocation of professions per team as evenly as possible to make the most balanced and fair match. When a player then randomly changes after that process the balance is thrown out of sync.The matchmaker doesn't do that. The only profession-related thing it does is have a small preference against multiple of the same profession on a team - which is far outweighed by matching people of roughly equal rating.

To sum up i am in favour of Anet removing this swapping feature to make games more balanced and enjoyable.In other words, you believe that ANet's matchmaker can do a better job of creating "balanced" matches than players? Yet the matchmaker can't tell the difference between a firebrand support guardian or a core DPS medi guard? Or a scrapper vs. a holosmith. Or defensive boonbeast vs. pewpew soulbeast.

Yeah this is basically /thread here. Spot on explanation as to why class swapping is a good thing.

@Sampson.2403 said:

@Exedore.6320 said:

@"James.1065" said:The simple reason is that the match maker tries to distribute the allocation of professions per team as evenly as possible to make the most balanced and fair match. When a player then randomly changes after that process the balance is thrown out of sync.The matchmaker doesn't do that. The only profession-related thing it does is have a small preference against multiple of the same profession on a team - which is far outweighed by matching people of roughly equal rating.

To sum up i am in favour of Anet removing this swapping feature to make games more balanced and enjoyable.In other words, you believe that ANet's matchmaker can do a better job of creating "balanced" matches than players? Yet the matchmaker can't tell the difference between a firebrand support guardian or a core DPS medi guard? Or a scrapper vs. a holosmith. Or defensive boonbeast vs. pewpew soulbeast.

not really a justification, and exactly what he had pointed out, almost every single class can be respeced to play different roles, so why is there a need for class swap?

pretty much most of the time is to hard counter through class mechanic

it's just like a general prepping his army, he isn't going to know exactly what the make-up of his enemy's army will be until they meet face to face

if he sees his army is going to be at a disadvantage by certain troop types, he'll change his tactics by altering his army's formation and lure enemy's army into a terrain that will create advantages for his troops; there will be nowhere for him and no time for him to source additional troop types

@Exedore.6320 said:So how is profession/character switching hurting you, exactly? Pretty sure your inability to win is largely due to you and not your opponents picking different professions. And remember, you and your team can do the same.

do i smell elitism?

hard-countering mechanic of a class can make a huge difference with two equally skilled players

I have no problem with players respecing their class, but class swapping to hardcounter another class is totally a different thing

in addition, by the time the swapper loaded back in and you see what they had swapped to, and you swap to counter their's, the match has already started, so there will be no time for you to respec your swapped classso you are pretty much screwed anyway coming back in with an ill-prepared class

I would very much prefer to leave the randomness up to chance

you are allowed to swap as well

if you can't swap or can't play other classes that it's just on YOU

just like League a player who can play many type of champion is a better player all day.

I love the option to switch. It makes up for the terrible matchmaking and is an opportunity to counterplay a mismatched comp.

More often than not though, people switch to a worse comp (in gold 3/plat 1 at least).

If you have a problem with it, it's because you yourself are married to one role or profession and have no flexibility.

It is an important feature and should be left alone.

well unfortunately the "PVP population" voted down class switching so we all cry as much as we like.I personally voted to prevent class switching but since it got voted down im gonna use the ability to switch depending on enemy comp since its "allowed".

@bbop.9706 said:I love the option to switch. It makes up for the terrible matchmaking and is an opportunity to counterplay a mismatched comp.

More often than not though, people switch to a worse comp (in gold 3/plat 1 at least).

If you have a problem with it, it's because you yourself are married to one role or profession and have no flexibility.

It is an important feature and should be left alone.

remove the ready timer then it will be more on an even playing field, so i can switch and respec after i see what they switched to

@crepuscular.9047 said:not really a justification, and exactly what he had pointed out, almost every single class can be respeced to play different roles, so why is there a need for class swap?Not really. Thief, mesmer don't have a support build, and it's rather lacking for warrior and necro. Ranged vs. melee also has a dichotomy. Same for mobility. Professions aren't as interchangeable as you think. And I'm not even going on pure meta builds either.

hard-countering mechanic of a class can make a huge difference with two equally skilled playersTrue hard counters are rare. In most cases, it's a the player's fault for using a weak or one-trick build. In a few cases, it's a balance problem which needs fixed, and balance can't be fixed by changing swap rules nor by profession limits - those rules only create more problems. The most common cases for swapping are to remove glaring weaknesses in your team (too many or too few support, etc.), rather than to try and counter a specific opponent.

@crepuscular.9047 said:4 out of 5 matches tonight i see opposing team class switching, literally took close to 4 hours just to get a win for daily, and just happened to be someone on my team switched while the opposing team didnt

teams should adjust engagement tactics rather than class switching to hard counter

the team that had switcher should penalised, something like will need extra points to win

You played 4 hours of matches without a win and the problem was other people and not you?

@mindcircus.1506 said:You played 4 hours of matches without a win and the problem was other people and not you?

i'm not saying i'm a good player, just very average

but when you see ppl keep on going solo 1vX and get killed in seconds instead of regroup to retake points, or telling them dont keep on waste time 1v1 bunker scraper guarding a point but continues to the entire match, i dont know what their logic is

being out performed in terms of damaged by a support build ¯_(ツ)_/¯

and sometimes you see ppl come in and just disconnects for the most of the match

the other day i fought against one of my guildie, she was in lower bottom tier bronze, almost bottomed out... have no idea how the matching algorithm works, because I'm in the top tier silver

@crepuscular.9047 said:the other day i fought against one of my guildie, she was in lower bottom tier bronze, almost bottomed out... have no idea how the matching algorithm works, because I'm in the top tier silverShe was probably high bronze or low silver, but decayed a lot. Remember that decay only affects visible rating and leaderboards - not actual matchmaking rating. Hitting bottom of bronze in actual rating is near impossible due to the Gaussian distribution of the rating. Matching low silver and high silver players is perfectly legitimate.

@Exedore.6320 said:She was probably high bronze or low silver, but decayed a lot. Remember that decay only affects visible rating and leaderboards - not actual matchmaking rating. Hitting bottom of bronze in actual rating is near impossible due to the Gaussian distribution of the rating. Matching low silver and high silver players is perfectly legitimate.

ah, that probably explains it... and may explained why i got matched up against an Unyielding Legend, my team pretty much got destroyed by a single sb