How about smaller wvw maps? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

How about smaller wvw maps?

Zuldari.3940Zuldari.3940 Member ✭✭✭
edited June 8, 2019 in WvW

Its such a unbalanced field half the time, plus the zerg gets old. I think it would be healthy for the game and for pvp if we could have smaller wvw maps. Hear me out, a smaller zone two sides with garrison and a few surrounding smaller bases, make the teams even like 15 or 20 each side, They would have to take the enemy bases and supplies and capture the castle for wins. It would make team work better and make the playing field level without zergs. I would love to be able take a smaller group into an even playing field than get crushed by zergs all the time. Its not fun its getting old and this way no matter what server you are on it will be balanced.

Coo! Quaggan Love's You! ♥♥♥

Comments

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 8, 2019

    You know that saying "make the teams even" doesnt just magically make it happen because of lower numbers, right?

    10 pugs randomly running around on a small border would still get roflstomped by a 20 man guild entering the border. What are you going to do? Add a 10 man guild that still gets roflstomped or 10 more pugs that will run in every direction? Heaven forbid someone is actually bad, they need to be kicked from the border. Especially if someone take a smaller group in, we aint got space for that kitten we need everyone to stack on com to fight the guild and we need everyone on meta specs. Small group pls leave or mass report.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 8, 2019

    I would love something like that, especially under mega server structure so only 1 map would temporarily have uneven numbers.

    I dont have a high end pc, love small scale fights and would really love any new game mode focusing on PvP.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The "balance" you are talking about can be boiled down to player choice.
    They can choose to play or not play.
    They can choose to play good builds or bad builds.
    They can choose to improve or keep being bad.
    They can choose to runs small parties or zergs.

    There is a reason why spvp has rating. The alliance system anet is supposedly working on is the WvW version of rating. And even that I doubt will have lasting "balance" in-between match resets.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • Zuldari.3940Zuldari.3940 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    You know that saying "make the teams even" doesnt just magically make it happen because of lower numbers, right?

    10 pugs randomly running around on a small border would still get roflstomped by a 20 man guild entering the border. What are you going to do? Add a 10 man guild that still gets roflstomped or 10 more pugs that will run in every direction? Heaven forbid someone is actually bad, they need to be kicked from the border. Especially if someone take a smaller group in, we aint got space for that kitten we need everyone to stack on com to fight the guild and we need everyone on meta specs. Small group pls leave or mass report.

    I guess you are misunderstanding what i am saying. Make a map that only allows say 40 in it for a game, 20 on one side 20 on the other. You would queue the smaller map by clicking on it like you do any borderlands map. Once both sides have 20 you zone in, there can be multiple map instances just like regular wvw, but there is a limit of 20 each side. And once people see the objectives to win they will coordinate better as they learn the battle. The map would allow the team that takes smaller bases and cuts off supplies higher points, and less defense for canons etc of the enemies fort. I know this can work because the zerg mentality is not fun. You roam in a big group many times without a battle just wandering from site to site, or having a staring contest with the other team. In a smaller map there would be more conflict, objectives you need to clear to win, and more offense/defense. I get terribly bored running in wvw when we go all over the map for 20 min without engaging an enemy cept catching a few roamers.

    Smaller scale wvw would work beautifully for players that are bored of the running zerg without much realtime combat.

    Coo! Quaggan Love's You! ♥♥♥

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'd love this. I hate blob fights. Some of my fondest WvW memories come from 20 man guild groups.

    Bite me.

  • Zuldari.3940Zuldari.3940 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 8, 2019

    @Blocki.4931 said:
    I'd love this. I hate blob fights. Some of my fondest WvW memories come from 20 man guild groups.

    I didnt play back when gvg was a thing, im still newer, but even as a new player i see faults with the big wvw maps that make me disinclined to play them. I love smaller battles where you actually wind up doing more instead of running all over the big maps, maybe getting a fight in. There is a nice feeling when you know its your team evenly matched in wvw against the other team, and it comes down to teamwork and who has the mettle to win, instead of just rolfostomping the map because you got a zillion player zerg. Plus something like this could also be part of the weekly guild missions. I think it would encourage more participation with guilds interactions too. Another thing i read was EotM is kinda not happening that its dead as last weeks news, maybe this could revamp the map. Scale it down change a few things and use it as the map for 20v20.

    Coo! Quaggan Love's You! ♥♥♥

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    So, effectively you aren’t talking about WvW (vW)

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    That would be gvg imo, which would be great

    Imagine a real gvg mode in guild wars 2, just like in guild wars 1

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm for it. break down red bl into mini maps - fire map, air map, earth map. or something new. >3<

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Holgarf.6581Holgarf.6581 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    You know that saying "make the teams even" doesnt just magically make it happen because of lower numbers, right?

    10 pugs randomly running around on a small border would still get roflstomped by a 20 man guild entering the border. What are you going to do? Add a 10 man guild that still gets roflstomped or 10 more pugs that will run in every direction? Heaven forbid someone is actually bad, they need to be kicked from the border. Especially if someone take a smaller group in, we aint got space for that kitten we need everyone to stack on com to fight the guild and we need everyone on meta specs. Small group pls leave or mass report.

    Did you just encourage people to abuse the report system because they're not playing the game how you like?

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 9, 2019

    @Holgarf.6581 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    You know that saying "make the teams even" doesnt just magically make it happen because of lower numbers, right?

    10 pugs randomly running around on a small border would still get roflstomped by a 20 man guild entering the border. What are you going to do? Add a 10 man guild that still gets roflstomped or 10 more pugs that will run in every direction? Heaven forbid someone is actually bad, they need to be kicked from the border. Especially if someone take a smaller group in, we aint got space for that kitten we need everyone to stack on com to fight the guild and we need everyone on meta specs. Small group pls leave or mass report.

    Did you just encourage people to abuse the report system because they're not playing the game how you like?

    Did you just fail at reading comprehension? This is about a suggested scenario. Low map limitations would just bring out toxic players and put more pressure on each individual player to perform, especially when sidelined by "superior" guilds players wanting to enter such border. I can assure you that there would be threats of mass reporting happening just to spite players and drive them off. Just imagine sPvP, except now people have the backing of 10+ friends.

    But, as OP further elaborated it would be like sPvP match based rather than open world. I assumed it would be open like a normal border. This avoids the pressure of "arriving groups" buffling their way in, however that create a whole slew of other issues that make it impossible to perfectly balance anyway.

    People AFK in sPvP all the time. Now imagine if its say a 2h skirmish and one side with a 15 man guild just go kitten it we're going WvW instead 45 minutes in. Match ruined. At least the sPvP matches are only like 10-15m. If this suggestion is for a very short round, 15-30m... then its just sPvP with more players. Which is fine. Its not WvW though.

    In fact, we already have EoTM to compare with. Even assuming a perfect reset with hundreds of fully filled instances... how many of those would still be "balanced" and playable 30m in? Oh I can tell you it wont be many.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • zinkz.7045zinkz.7045 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 9, 2019

    They should have gone with smaller maps or rather battlegrounds from the start, RvR fails in every game that tries it, it simply does not work as a game mode.

  • SloRules.3560SloRules.3560 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zuldari.3940 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:
    I'd love this. I hate blob fights. Some of my fondest WvW memories come from 20 man guild groups.

    I didnt play back when gvg was a thing, im still newer, but even as a new player i see faults with the big wvw maps that make me disinclined to play them. I love smaller battles where you actually wind up doing more instead of running all over the big maps, maybe getting a fight in. There is a nice feeling when you know its your team evenly matched in wvw against the other team, and it comes down to teamwork and who has the mettle to win, instead of just rolfostomping the map because you got a zillion player zerg. Plus something like this could also be part of the weekly guild missions. I think it would encourage more participation with guilds interactions too. Another thing i read was EotM is kinda not happening that its dead as last weeks news, maybe this could revamp the map. Scale it down change a few things and use it as the map for 20v20.

    GvG is still around.

  • Zuldari.3940Zuldari.3940 Member ✭✭✭

    @zinkz.7045 said:
    They should have gone with smaller maps or rather battlegrounds from the start, RvR fails in every game that tries it, it simply does not work as a game mode.

    I have to agree with this , having played other systems of pvp i think wvw is not as engaging or fun. Its just too big and cumbersome, and blobs zergs w/e you want to call them are boring. I hope they change something soon, this is the fastest i have ever stopped playing pvp in a game. Im not a god in pvp, but i love to play it because its fun to me its interesting usually because you dont know what the other player is going to do, its not scripted so its exciting and fun. But the zerg thing isnt fun, and the huge maps that people have to roam around just arent my thing i guess. But mostly its about the flow of a game, smaller groups and maps mean a better combat flow, than large unwieldy groups on big maps where you cant even see who is doing what.

    Coo! Quaggan Love's You! ♥♥♥

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zuldari.3940 said:

    @zinkz.7045 said:
    They should have gone with smaller maps or rather battlegrounds from the start, RvR fails in every game that tries it, it simply does not work as a game mode.

    I have to agree with this , having played other systems of pvp i think wvw is not as engaging or fun. Its just too big and cumbersome, and blobs zergs w/e you want to call them are boring. I hope they change something soon, this is the fastest i have ever stopped playing pvp in a game. Im not a god in pvp, but i love to play it because its fun to me its interesting usually because you dont know what the other player is going to do, its not scripted so its exciting and fun. But the zerg thing isnt fun, and the huge maps that people have to roam around just arent my thing i guess. But mostly its about the flow of a game, smaller groups and maps mean a better combat flow, than large unwieldy groups on big maps where you cant even see who is doing what.

    Reality disagree with you both since people still play WvW after 7 kitten years. If thats a fail for a "game mode that doesnt work" I have no idea how one would measure a success. Whats next, claiming GTAV is the worst selling game ever, WoW is a failure of an MMO and Fortnite is too realistic?

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • enkidu.5937enkidu.5937 Member ✭✭✭

    @zinkz.7045 said:
    They should have gone with smaller maps or rather battlegrounds from the start, RvR fails in every game that tries it, it simply does not work as a game mode.

    Considering, that WvW is only a side mode in a casual PvE story mode game, it can be considered a success in the lets say first 3 years imo. You even lost gold by playing it and nonetheless lots of ppl were addicted (and some still are). Since everyone has his/her own preferences to do XY, its of course hard to cater to everyone and keep them happy over a longer period of time.

  • zinkz.7045zinkz.7045 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 10, 2019

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Zuldari.3940 said:

    @zinkz.7045 said:
    They should have gone with smaller maps or rather battlegrounds from the start, RvR fails in every game that tries it, it simply does not work as a game mode.

    I have to agree with this , having played other systems of pvp i think wvw is not as engaging or fun. Its just too big and cumbersome, and blobs zergs w/e you want to call them are boring. I hope they change something soon, this is the fastest i have ever stopped playing pvp in a game. Im not a god in pvp, but i love to play it because its fun to me its interesting usually because you dont know what the other player is going to do, its not scripted so its exciting and fun. But the zerg thing isnt fun, and the huge maps that people have to roam around just arent my thing i guess. But mostly its about the flow of a game, smaller groups and maps mean a better combat flow, than large unwieldy groups on big maps where you cant even see who is doing what.

    Reality disagree with you both since people still play WvW after 7 kitten years. If thats a fail for a "game mode that doesnt work" I have no idea how one would measure a success. Whats next, claiming GTAV is the worst selling game ever, WoW is a failure of an MMO and Fortnite is too realistic?

    On the contrary, reality shows what a failure it is.

    There are hardly any RvR games out there, minimal competition for WvW, yet only a tiny number of players play it. Same goes for the competition, take Cyrodil (ESO) barely anyone plays that either.

    The reality is the game mode does not work because it fails to provide good engaging PvP in just about every aspect.

    Fights are too often dull, one sided or hard to even get, because that is what happens when there is no matchmaking on that front combined with the less structured nature of the game mode, which makes for dull, low quality PvP in that regard.

    Then as an overall game mode and winning the match it is laughable, such engaging gameplay to PvDoor when the other teams are in bed / at work / school, the game mode is so broken in that respect people do not even bother with it and you think that is "working".

    Even in the context of GW2 it is a failure, people on this forum complain about dev resources and WvW, there is a reason for the lack of resources and it isn't because WvW is a massive success played by most of the playerbase.

    As for your bizarre Fortnite comparison, a game that has about 80 million active players per month, WvW on the other hand...

  • enkidu.5937enkidu.5937 Member ✭✭✭

    Seems you just missed the first 3 years where WvW was awesome.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zinkz.7045 said:
    As for your bizarre Fortnite comparison, a game that has about 80 million active players per month, WvW on the other hand...

    "Success" is always relative. What did the last CoD game bring in in terms of cash? Probably more than GW2 has brought in for its entire lifetime. How many will remember what CoD game that even was in 7 years? I dont even remember it now.

    WvW is not a success story like Fortnite, or Overwatch, or whatever game, but its still populated 7 years after release. To claim that it doesnt work as a game mode or "failed" is a blatant lie regardless of how much you dislike it or find it boring. The very fact that it lasted more than 3 months shows it works... and hell WvW back then was nowhere near as refined as it is now.

    I dont play Fortnite. I dont like battle royale games period. Shall I go to their forums and claim that battle royale is a failure of a game mode that has been kitten in every game that tried it? No, because that would be disingenuous. Its a comparably young game to GW2, but it does have 80 million active players per month after all, even if I find it boring.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • zinkz.7045zinkz.7045 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 10, 2019

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    WvW is not a success story like Fortnite, or Overwatch, or whatever game, but its still populated 7 years after release. To claim that it doesnt work as a game mode or "failed" is a blatant lie regardless of how much you dislike it or find it boring.

    The only lie is the one you are telling yourself.

    It is a failed game mode that flops in pretty much every game that tries it, because it is fundamentally flawed. Even by the low standards of MMORPGs (let alone Fortnite, etc) barely anyone plays it. Just because a tiny handful of people who are fine with low quality "PvP" and a game mode so broken people ignore it, still play it, does not make it a success.

  • Zuldari.3940Zuldari.3940 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @zinkz.7045 said:
    As for your bizarre Fortnite comparison, a game that has about 80 million active players per month, WvW on the other hand...

    "Success" is always relative. What did the last CoD game bring in in terms of cash? Probably more than GW2 has brought in for its entire lifetime. How many will remember what CoD game that even was in 7 years? I dont even remember it now.

    WvW is not a success story like Fortnite, or Overwatch, or whatever game, but its still populated 7 years after release. To claim that it doesnt work as a game mode or "failed" is a blatant lie regardless of how much you dislike it or find it boring. The very fact that it lasted more than 3 months shows it works... and hell WvW back then was nowhere near as refined as it is now.

    I dont play Fortnite. I dont like battle royale games period. Shall I go to their forums and claim that battle royale is a failure of a game mode that has been kitten in every game that tried it? No, because that would be disingenuous. Its a comparably young game to GW2, but it does have 80 million active players per month after all, even if I find it boring.

    I think the reason it works some is because there is nothing else in game for players to get that battleground gameplay. Im just saying if there were smaller matches for this kind i thing it would see a resurgence , because people zerg because thats all there is. Give them battleground map with matched teams and they will go for it. Like someone mentioned it used to be like that 20vs 20

    Coo! Quaggan Love's You! ♥♥♥

  • Optimator.3589Optimator.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭

    OP, did you ever play battlegrounds in WoW? Alterac Valley is more or less what you're describing.

    And guess what, even though the match won't start without both teams being full, you still have imbalances. Premade guild groups roflstomp randos. In a boss rush v boss rush scenario, Alliance wins. In a defensive turtle match, Horde wins. Etc, etc.

    REDUCE NA TO 3 TIERS

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