Disable another degenerate build please

We "fixed" CI mirage, time to "fix" another degenerate build - condition daredevil.Its time to disable https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lotus_Training and come up with a better solution than "4 conditions on a single evade".I'm tired to play against that degenerate (not insulting the players but the build) condi daredevils that applies tons of conditions with single evade and I cant even evade, even If I would, I cant cleanse 5+ conditions every 2 seconds.

The trait is fine.

Sword 2 is the problem

Color me impressed. You didn't waste your time after your vacation.

That traitis the exact problem, simple evade applies FOUR cover conditions that he doesnt care about to be cleansed, on top of the cake one of them is weakness from minor trait that destroy your endurance gain and makes your hits glance, basically dont let you fight back even if you would catch it with counter burst (lets imagine).And this repeat itself until I die, amazing, much counterplay, much fun, clearly want to play against double condi drd, double holo +something comps more and more. I see only 1 counter to such comps, altf4.

Given the number of games and fights I’ve won versus condi Daredevil I have to question whether we are playing the same game.

@"praqtos.9035" said:That traitis the exact problem, simple evade applies FOUR cover conditions that he doesnt care about to be cleansed, on top of the cake one of them is weakness from minor trait that destroy your endurance gain and makes your hits glance, basically dont let you fight back even if you would catch it with counter burst (lets imagine).And this repeat itself until I die, amazing, much counterplay, much fun, clearly want to play against double condi drd, double holo +something comps more and more. I see only 1 counter to such comps, altf4.

No it's 3. 1 second cripple, 4 secs bleed, 3 secs of torment. 1 stack each.

They can hit you with another attack because of weakening strikes, but the dodge alone only provides 3. You have to attack again, or you can dodge again.

But why were you in that scenario anyways?

Because they are able to lock you down with sword 2 repetively (spam).

Wasn't the problem with CI the immobile spam?

If's not as easy to hit people with lotus if you cant lock them down from an evade (immobile).

Bewildering ambush is on 26 second cooldown, lasts 3 seconds, not really a problem.

I can see there is a problem with combining weakness and condi classes too, that I can agree without reservation.

I hate playing power and condi classes can burst me but keep my damage at bay with weakness, really not fair at all if you ask me.

Some will have their point of view as to why it is, but cover condis really hurt the whole cleanse concept, so weakness is too much icing on the cake.

Maybe weakening strikes should be changed to something else like take 20% less damage from foes who have a condition, instead of spamming 4 secs of weakness on every dodge.

I believe the real issue is sword 2, and since you pointed it out, weakening strikes.

I like to play some condi builds, but I don't play s/d condi on principle as I believe it to be (too degenerate).

What is the appropriate way to fight vs condi drd? Are you supposed to dodge the immob from sword 2? Is that a realistic goal? If so, my reaction time is too slow / i need to work on it.

@"praqtos.9035" said:That traitis the exact problem, simple evade applies FOUR cover conditions that he doesnt care about to be cleansed, on top of the cake one of them is weakness from minor trait that destroy your endurance gain and makes your hits glance, basically dont let you fight back even if you would catch it with counter burst (lets imagine).And this repeat itself until I die, amazing, much counterplay, much fun, clearly want to play against double condi drd, double holo +something comps more and more. I see only 1 counter to such comps, altf4.

As was mentioned, LT applies 3 condis, not 4 (and one of the Condi is only 1.5 sec non-dmg duration so essentially applies 2 even with Deadshot amulet the 1.5s duration becomes nothing), I couldn't care less if Condi DrD gets gutted again, but it would be nice if you could at least study the issue properly so it can be addressed constructively rather than becoming yet another clueless clown fiesta.

@Crab Fear.1624 said:I can see there is a problem with combining weakness and condi classes too, that I can agree without reservation.

weakness is necessary on some builds to survive long enough for condis to do their damage.

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@"praqtos.9035" said:That traitis the exact problem, simple evade applies FOUR cover conditions that he doesnt care about to be cleansed, on top of the cake one of them is weakness from minor trait that destroy your endurance gain and makes your hits glance, basically dont let you fight back even if you would catch it with counter burst (lets imagine).

And this repeat itself until I die, amazing, much counterplay, much fun, clearly want to play against double condi drd, double holo +something comps more and more. I see only 1 counter to such comps, altf4.snipWhy would you correct me if I written 1 of them is from minor, idk.Even if they wouldnt be able lock you down with immob spam, they instantly apply tons of conditions and the only saving grace is full cleanes that is limited to few classes, packing everything into condi cleanses means u will get erased by another not less stupid builds -> any kind of holo,spellbreakers, revs.Condi mirage doesnt instant bombard you with tons of conditions over and over while immobing you, CI let you do that and hit all the ambushes.May be confusion trait isnt too much of a problem but iirc that does like 2.2k damage on use of anything, failing to cleanse (and you will fail as incoming condition will cover it), inability to cleanse everything will punish you harsh.I like to play some condi builds, but I don't play s/d condi on principle as I believe it to be (too degenerate).At least we agree somewhere, for the same reason I dont play condi mirage. Its boring, its stupid, its unfun for both sides, whole mirage concept DODGE ONEEEEEEEE is stupid, worst thing that happened to mesmer, after chrono death of course.

@H a z Z y.1762 said:What is the appropriate way to fight vs condi drd? Are you supposed to dodge the immob from sword 2? Is that a realistic goal? If so, my reaction time is too slow / i need to work on it.

Sword#2s dmging and immob-applying part is a channelled skill that occurs after the port part, there is almost (I dare say) plenty of room to dodge that which usually results in evading the LT too since most of the thieves will probably mindlessly mash it after the Sword2 no matter if it hit or not.

@Alatar.7364 said:

@"praqtos.9035" said:That traitis the exact problem, simple evade applies FOUR cover conditions that he doesnt care about to be cleansed, on top of the cake one of them is weakness from minor trait that destroy your endurance gain and makes your hits glance, basically dont let you fight back even if you would catch it with counter burst (lets imagine).

And this repeat itself until I die, amazing, much counterplay, much fun, clearly want to play against double condi drd, double holo +something comps more and more. I see only 1 counter to such comps, altf4.

As was mentioned, LT applies 3 condis, not 4

(and one of the Condi is only 1.5 sec non-dmg duration so essentially applies 2 even with Deadshot amulet the 1.5s duration becomes nothing)

, I couldn't care less if Condi DrD gets gutted again, but it would be nice if you could at least study the issue properly so it can be addressed constructively rather than becoming yet another clueless clown fiesta.Before accusing me in anything, learn to read first, then talk about "cluelessness"

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:That traitis the exact problem, simple evade applies FOUR cover conditions that he doesnt care about to be cleansed, on top of the cake one of them is weakness from minor trait that destroy your endurance gain and makes your hits glance, basically dont let you fight back even if you would catch it with counter burst (lets imagine).

And this repeat itself until I die, amazing, much counterplay, much fun, clearly want to play against double condi drd, double holo +something comps more and more. I see only 1 counter to such comps, altf4.

As was mentioned, LT applies 3 condis, not 4

(and one of the Condi is only 1.5 sec non-dmg duration so essentially applies 2 even with Deadshot amulet the 1.5s duration becomes nothing)

, I couldn't care less if Condi DrD gets gutted again, but it would be nice if you could at least study the issue properly so it can be addressed constructively rather than becoming yet another clueless clown fiesta.Before accusing me in anything, learn to read first, then talk about "cluelessness"

@praqtos.9035 said:

That traitis the exact problem, simple evade applies FOUR cover conditions

Hmm

@Alatar.7364 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:That traitis the exact problem, simple evade applies FOUR cover conditions that he doesnt care about to be cleansed, on top of the cake one of them is weakness from minor trait that destroy your endurance gain and makes your hits glance, basically dont let you fight back even if you would catch it with counter burst (lets imagine).

And this repeat itself until I die, amazing, much counterplay, much fun, clearly want to play against double condi drd, double holo +something comps more and more. I see only 1 counter to such comps, altf4.

As was mentioned, LT applies 3 condis, not 4

(and one of the Condi is only 1.5 sec non-dmg duration so essentially applies 2 even with Deadshot amulet the 1.5s duration becomes nothing)

, I couldn't care less if Condi DrD gets gutted again, but it would be nice if you could at least study the issue properly so it can be addressed constructively rather than becoming yet another clueless clown fiesta.Before accusing me in anything, learn to read first, then talk about "cluelessness"

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:That traitis the exact problem, simple evade applies FOUR cover conditions that he doesnt care about to be cleansed, on top of the cake one of them is weakness from minor trait that destroy your endurance gain and makes your hits glance, basically dont let you fight back even if you would catch it with counter burst (lets imagine).

And this repeat itself until I die, amazing, much counterplay, much fun, clearly want to play against double condi drd, double holo +something comps more and more. I see only 1 counter to such comps, altf4.

As was mentioned, LT applies 3 condis, not 4

(and one of the Condi is only 1.5 sec non-dmg duration so essentially applies 2 even with Deadshot amulet the 1.5s duration becomes nothing)

, I couldn't care less if Condi DrD gets gutted again, but it would be nice if you could at least study the issue properly so it can be addressed constructively rather than becoming yet another clueless clown fiesta.Before accusing me in anything, learn to read first, then talk about "cluelessness"

That traitis the exact problem, simple evade applies FOUR cover conditions that he doesnt care about to be cleansed, on top of the cake one of them is

weakness from minor trait

that destroy your endurance gain and makes your hits glance, basically dont let you fight back even if you would catch it with counter burst (lets imagine).

That is exactly why I told you that you need to study the issue properly before attacking it, so since I am tired of your passive aggresigity let me hand it to you: "LT DOES NOT APPLY POISON THEREFORE IT DOES NOT APPLY WEAKNESS THEREFORE 3 CONDIS NOT 4".And before you even attempt it; spare me of your excuses, you mentioned exactly and specifically LT, no steal, no spider venom, no nothing, your post was not mentioning any other circumstancional effects.

I'm more annoyed with the perma weakness spam personnaly. So i play hybrid now. Since they like condies i should give em some.

@Alatar.7364 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:That traitis the exact problem, simple evade applies FOUR cover conditions that he doesnt care about to be cleansed, on top of the cake one of them is weakness from minor trait that destroy your endurance gain and makes your hits glance, basically dont let you fight back even if you would catch it with counter burst (lets imagine).

And this repeat itself until I die, amazing, much counterplay, much fun, clearly want to play against double condi drd, double holo +something comps more and more. I see only 1 counter to such comps, altf4.

As was mentioned, LT applies 3 condis, not 4

(and one of the Condi is only 1.5 sec non-dmg duration so essentially applies 2 even with Deadshot amulet the 1.5s duration becomes nothing)

, I couldn't care less if Condi DrD gets gutted again, but it would be nice if you could at least study the issue properly so it can be addressed constructively rather than becoming yet another clueless clown fiesta.Before accusing me in anything, learn to read first, then talk about "cluelessness"

That traitis the exact problem, simple evade applies FOUR cover conditions that he doesnt care about to be cleansed, on top of the cake one of them is

weakness from minor trait

that destroy your endurance gain and makes your hits glance, basically dont let you fight back even if you would catch it with counter burst (lets imagine).

That is not a problem with the skill, it's a problem with condition stacking mechanics on players.

The skill is perfectly fine vs NPCs. It just has some issues on some fights vs players, but it's not the skill's fault, but on how much a single player can stack conditions in another one. That much stacking should require collaboration between players.

Just like how Confusion was changed to affect NPCs in a different way, that should be the general approach with any other things that are fine vs NPCs and only show some issues vs players.

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:That traitis the exact problem, simple evade applies FOUR cover conditions that he doesnt care about to be cleansed, on top of the cake one of them is weakness from minor trait that destroy your endurance gain and makes your hits glance, basically dont let you fight back even if you would catch it with counter burst (lets imagine).

And this repeat itself until I die, amazing, much counterplay, much fun, clearly want to play against double condi drd, double holo +something comps more and more. I see only 1 counter to such comps, altf4.

As was mentioned, LT applies 3 condis, not 4

(and one of the Condi is only 1.5 sec non-dmg duration so essentially applies 2 even with Deadshot amulet the 1.5s duration becomes nothing)

, I couldn't care less if Condi DrD gets gutted again, but it would be nice if you could at least study the issue properly so it can be addressed constructively rather than becoming yet another clueless clown fiesta.Before accusing me in anything, learn to read first, then talk about "cluelessness"

That traitis the exact problem, simple evade applies FOUR cover conditions that he doesnt care about to be cleansed, on top of the cake one of them is

weakness from minor trait

that destroy your endurance gain and makes your hits glance, basically dont let you fight back even if you would catch it with counter burst (lets imagine).

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Impaling_Lotus

Read.Show me where is the Poison in that "simple evade" that triggers the Weakness trait.

@Alatar.7364 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:That traitis the exact problem, simple evade applies FOUR cover conditions that he doesnt care about to be cleansed, on top of the cake one of them is weakness from minor trait that destroy your endurance gain and makes your hits glance, basically dont let you fight back even if you would catch it with counter burst (lets imagine).

And this repeat itself until I die, amazing, much counterplay, much fun, clearly want to play against double condi drd, double holo +something comps more and more. I see only 1 counter to such comps, altf4.

As was mentioned, LT applies 3 condis, not 4

(and one of the Condi is only 1.5 sec non-dmg duration so essentially applies 2 even with Deadshot amulet the 1.5s duration becomes nothing)

, I couldn't care less if Condi DrD gets gutted again, but it would be nice if you could at least study the issue properly so it can be addressed constructively rather than becoming yet another clueless clown fiesta.Before accusing me in anything, learn to read first, then talk about "cluelessness"

That traitis the exact problem, simple evade applies FOUR cover conditions that he doesnt care about to be cleansed, on top of the cake one of them is

weakness from minor trait

that destroy your endurance gain and makes your hits glance, basically dont let you fight back even if you would catch it with counter burst (lets imagine).

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:That traitis the exact problem, simple evade applies FOUR cover conditions that he doesnt care about to be cleansed, on top of the cake one of them is weakness from minor trait that destroy your endurance gain and makes your hits glance, basically dont let you fight back even if you would catch it with counter burst (lets imagine).

And this repeat itself until I die, amazing, much counterplay, much fun, clearly want to play against double condi drd, double holo +something comps more and more. I see only 1 counter to such comps, altf4.

As was mentioned, LT applies 3 condis, not 4

(and one of the Condi is only 1.5 sec non-dmg duration so essentially applies 2 even with Deadshot amulet the 1.5s duration becomes nothing)

, I couldn't care less if Condi DrD gets gutted again, but it would be nice if you could at least study the issue properly so it can be addressed constructively rather than becoming yet another clueless clown fiesta.Before accusing me in anything, learn to read first, then talk about "cluelessness"

That traitis the exact problem, simple evade applies FOUR cover conditions that he doesnt care about to be cleansed, on top of the cake one of them is

weakness from minor trait

that destroy your endurance gain and makes your hits glance, basically dont let you fight back even if you would catch it with counter burst (lets imagine).

Weakness from the minor trait comes after the Dodge not with it, so you were either once again wrong or lying.

@Alatar.7364 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:That traitis the exact problem, simple evade applies FOUR cover conditions that he doesnt care about to be cleansed, on top of the cake one of them is weakness from minor trait that destroy your endurance gain and makes your hits glance, basically dont let you fight back even if you would catch it with counter burst (lets imagine).

And this repeat itself until I die, amazing, much counterplay, much fun, clearly want to play against double condi drd, double holo +something comps more and more. I see only 1 counter to such comps, altf4.

As was mentioned, LT applies 3 condis, not 4

(and one of the Condi is only 1.5 sec non-dmg duration so essentially applies 2 even with Deadshot amulet the 1.5s duration becomes nothing)

, I couldn't care less if Condi DrD gets gutted again, but it would be nice if you could at least study the issue properly so it can be addressed constructively rather than becoming yet another clueless clown fiesta.Before accusing me in anything, learn to read first, then talk about "cluelessness"

That traitis the exact problem, simple evade applies FOUR cover conditions that he doesnt care about to be cleansed, on top of the cake one of them is

weakness from minor trait

that destroy your endurance gain and makes your hits glance, basically dont let you fight back even if you would catch it with counter burst (lets imagine).

He’s counting the three from Lotus (bleed, torment and cripple, and weakness from the minor master Weakening Strikes (which gives you three seconds of weakness on next attack after dodge (which is probably triggering on the Lotus daggers).

It’s still not an issue though. I’m running a build with minimal condi clear and it isn’t an issue as long as I have my cleanse available.

@saerni.2584 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:That traitis the exact problem, simple evade applies FOUR cover conditions that he doesnt care about to be cleansed, on top of the cake one of them is weakness from minor trait that destroy your endurance gain and makes your hits glance, basically dont let you fight back even if you would catch it with counter burst (lets imagine).

And this repeat itself until I die, amazing, much counterplay, much fun, clearly want to play against double condi drd, double holo +something comps more and more. I see only 1 counter to such comps, altf4.

As was mentioned, LT applies 3 condis, not 4

(and one of the Condi is only 1.5 sec non-dmg duration so essentially applies 2 even with Deadshot amulet the 1.5s duration becomes nothing)

, I couldn't care less if Condi DrD gets gutted again, but it would be nice if you could at least study the issue properly so it can be addressed constructively rather than becoming yet another clueless clown fiesta.Before accusing me in anything, learn to read first, then talk about "cluelessness"

That traitis the exact problem, simple evade applies FOUR cover conditions that he doesnt care about to be cleansed, on top of the cake one of them is

weakness from minor trait

that destroy your endurance gain and makes your hits glance, basically dont let you fight back even if you would catch it with counter burst (lets imagine).

He is saying that Weakness comes WITH the dodge, it doesn't, not even with LT.

@Alatar.7364 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:That traitis the exact problem, simple evade applies FOUR cover conditions that he doesnt care about to be cleansed, on top of the cake one of them is weakness from minor trait that destroy your endurance gain and makes your hits glance, basically dont let you fight back even if you would catch it with counter burst (lets imagine).

And this repeat itself until I die, amazing, much counterplay, much fun, clearly want to play against double condi drd, double holo +something comps more and more. I see only 1 counter to such comps, altf4.

As was mentioned, LT applies 3 condis, not 4

(and one of the Condi is only 1.5 sec non-dmg duration so essentially applies 2 even with Deadshot amulet the 1.5s duration becomes nothing)

, I couldn't care less if Condi DrD gets gutted again, but it would be nice if you could at least study the issue properly so it can be addressed constructively rather than becoming yet another clueless clown fiesta.Before accusing me in anything, learn to read first, then talk about "cluelessness"

That traitis the exact problem, simple evade applies FOUR cover conditions that he doesnt care about to be cleansed, on top of the cake one of them is

weakness from minor trait

that destroy your endurance gain and makes your hits glance, basically dont let you fight back even if you would catch it with counter burst (lets imagine).

He is talking about weakening strikes minor.

But, what I said was that it does not apply it, you have to attack or dodge again to apply the weakness.

"a simple evade" should be " a simple evade and follow up attack".

There was a correction made.

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:That traitis the exact problem, simple evade applies FOUR cover conditions that he doesnt care about to be cleansed, on top of the cake one of them is weakness from minor trait that destroy your endurance gain and makes your hits glance, basically dont let you fight back even if you would catch it with counter burst (lets imagine).

And this repeat itself until I die, amazing, much counterplay, much fun, clearly want to play against double condi drd, double holo +something comps more and more. I see only 1 counter to such comps, altf4.

As was mentioned, LT applies 3 condis, not 4

(and one of the Condi is only 1.5 sec non-dmg duration so essentially applies 2 even with Deadshot amulet the 1.5s duration becomes nothing)

, I couldn't care less if Condi DrD gets gutted again, but it would be nice if you could at least study the issue properly so it can be addressed constructively rather than becoming yet another clueless clown fiesta.Before accusing me in anything, learn to read first, then talk about "cluelessness"

That traitis the exact problem, simple evade applies FOUR cover conditions that he doesnt care about to be cleansed, on top of the cake one of them is

weakness from minor trait

that destroy your endurance gain and makes your hits glance, basically dont let you fight back even if you would catch it with counter burst (lets imagine).

That's what I am saying, the dodge does not apply 4 condis, weakness does not apply on the dodge. (mentioned it twice by now, but your page probably was not refreshed)