Combo field system update concept. — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Combo field system update concept.

BrokenGlass.9356BrokenGlass.9356 Member ✭✭✭
edited September 3, 2019 in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Nobody uses combo fields. I can hear you out there. "but wait dude, my rotation constantly blasts fire fields." or, "I blast in water fields to save my dying group all the time" which may be true. But as soon as you get too many players in one spot, all the fields you lay down, get overwritten by everyone else.

Wanted burning bolts? Probably got cleansing bolts. Thanks firebrand. Wanted to blast a heal? Probably did AoE Weakness. Thanks scourge.

So... How do we deal with the fact that, in open world groups, combo fields can work. (a few guys doing quests and zones while coordinating.) in 5 man group content (and by that I mean fractals, let's not kid.) your fields will get overridden. Unless you coordinate with your party to choose classes whose combo's play nice.... Which is a bad idea, because you'd much rather have classes that can produce the boons and conditions you want without needing combo fields at all. Which you can easily do between the PoF release and HoT.

So, my proposal?

When you combo in your own field, overlapped by another player's field... Two things happen, first you always combo in your own field. Secondly you have a 20% chance to ALSO combo in the newest unowned field.

So, the effects of the change would be that doing combos with your own fields can be relied upon, even in WvW and raids. Yet, group play is still encouraged. If a group wants to declare, 'blast water fields on the zerg' it will only take a moment before everyone is dropping thier own water field they know they can blast in. If there are other folks who continue, against the zerg commander's wishes, to blast thier own fire fields, this allows them to do so, while still occasionally succeeding in helping the group by accident. (20% of the time) All while allowing wise players to NOT put out a combo field of thier own, knowing that it increases thier chance of combing with someone else's field to 100%. And allowing this players who did put out a water field, to continue blasting might even if by accident.

I don't know if this is extreme to say, but I don't think a wider variety of combo effects +20% net total number would break raids, or WvW. Boons have a cap. Condis from combos are mostly disabling or hard to aim.

Auras... Require a subtly different action in order to maintain the 1 aura at a time mechanism. Otherwise a leap could produce a fire and ice aura simultaneously. So, if the 20% chance triggers as you leap through both your own, and someone else's field, you should do a single whirl, or blast at the other player's field. (50% chance for either one)

This maintains one aura at a time, and makes the leap slightly unpredictable in the way it combo's with multiple fields, thus reducing the idea that folks might build combos where a player uses a long leap through someone else's multi field. (like berserker's longbow f1)

I would also toy with adding an option, either in the options menu, or on the UI that allows you to set yourself to combo your own fields as primary, or to combo with others fields as primary. So that players can choose whether they want thier combo finishers to work selfishly, or not.

What do you guys think? Cool? Or totally break the game? Is there a better way to make combo fields feel as rewarding as they did back at release?

Comments

  • Cool for PVE and PVP ; not cool for WvW, I think it would be more messy than it is atm.

  • The problem with combos is that there are so few of fields and finishers for some classes/builds that they aren't self-sufficient and they can't be generated dependably. And the game mechanics and visuals make it impossible to know if a nearby friend has created a field-ability you can finish. Its all becomes random noise that sometimes happens.

    The necro class (my main) has exactly 2 land-based weapons with exactly 1 finisher ability each and 1 field ability each. None of the other land weapons have either a field or finisher skill. There are some utility abilities that are fields but most of the AOE-abilities don't generate fields. There are 2 finishers for the Reaper shroud and 1 field, but when you go into that you lose access to all of the abilities you have. And if you're not playing a Reaper...

    Anet should just let each build be self-sufficient with combos. Give every 1h weapon at least 1 finisher ability and/or field ability. Give 2h weapons at least 1 finisher and 1 field. Make every pure AOE ability be a field and maybe some "sort of AOE" abilities be either a field or finisher.

    The combo system seemed really neat the first time I read about it, but then reality kicked in and for me its a random useless thing. It would be great if it was dependable and useful.

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Personally, I'd suggest that they rework combos into a new horizontal progression system (with limited support in Core as well) and a new set of mechanics.

    One approach would converting fields so that they pulse "mana orbs" or something along those lines. Rather than stacking like boons/conditions, they could have a shared bar that contains up to 25 orbs, adding them to the right, and removing excess orbs from the left, possibly triggering certain traits or mechanics.

    Jeweler 500 could become a means to create signets of capture, to get skill modifiers from bosses (or skill points, or other things) that would alter skill properties as regards the orb system. Different mana types would have different signet recipes.

    The modifiers, once unlocked, would be selectable as a part of build (ie, a particular skill might have multiple options, of which one could be chosen. The base version of the skill would usually but not always have a default property of similar power to the other options, to avoid excess power creep). They could interact with the bar in different ways, e.g.:
    * Finisher: Consumes a certain number of orbs from the right, as available, and produces an effect for each. E.g., projectile might consume one and apply a positive or negative effect; whirl might consume several and do the same, possibly with varying effects for each projectile, etc.
    * Attuned: Consumes a specific type/number of orbs to apply an effect, from anywhere on the bar. Does nothing if charges are not there.
    * Empowered: Consumes a specific type, but an unlimited number, of orbs from the right, with an effect that varies on the number consumed
    * Fueled: If excess orbs of a certain type are removed, reduce the cooldown of this skill. Or alternatively, reduce cooldown for each orb of a certain type consumed.

    There could also be skills and mechanics for applying, stripping, converting to boons/conditions, stealing, etc. mana orbs, or converting among types. Possibly a "wildcard" type of orb that counts as whatever is favorable (critical hit from orb application? special field type?). A lot of possibilities for expanding gameplay.

    Lorewise, they could tie it into the ongoing prismatic Aurene subplot, and her way of sharing magic with mortals.

  • My man concern, especially now that I'm trying to play support scrapper... Is having fields you intend to use overwritten.

    I don't hate that some classes, like necro, don't combo with themselves well. Like, why would necro be good at working with living teammates? Or thief? Why wout if be good at anything other than whirling and blasting smoke?

    However... The asymmetrical access to combo fields makes me wonder... What if each profession had 3 traits, each subtly modified to suit how combo fields are intend to work? These traits would be above the utility skills, in the build screen the same way the F1-4 skills are above the weapon skills. (would not appear during play)

    They would all have a general concept behind them.

    Support- this mode makes light fields owned by anyone become primary. Your own fields always override any field other than light, for the purpose of the friendly combo finishers.
    Damage- fire fields owned by anyone become primary. Your own fire and poison fields always override any field other than fire, for the purpose of your own combo finishers.
    Healing- Water fields owned by anyone become primary too you. Your own fields always override any field other than water, for the purposes of your own combo finishers.

    Each class may have thier trait edited based on whether that class has supporting fields, or finishers. Or if it's supposed to feel selfish vs. team oriented.

    I see how double combos would be too strong in WvW. I just think we need a way to control whether or not you're throwing fields for allies to use. Or whether you're throwing fields you need for your own combos. And both ideas need to be viable beyond zerg commanders screaming "blast water!"

  • yusayu.3629yusayu.3629 Member ✭✭✭

    First, more classes should have fields and finishers.

    Second, they have to make the fields and finishers less useless (all boons and non-damaging conditions are worthless, damage is miniscule, the auras usually don't matter either).

    Third they have to nerf all skills that now became broken due to the field interactions.

    Forth all of this is worthless because I can't kitten see what the kitten kinda field anyone just put down anyways because all AoEs basically look the same, so this would only be useful for coordinated groups or for finishing in my own fields which kinda defeats the purpose.

  • Non damaging conditions aren't worthless, but do need graphics. Like... When weakness actually makes a mob miss, we should see a little weakness icon pop up like we do for damaging ones. Ticking cripple icons and whatnot. Making them feel impactful will go along way.

    Though, if they add more combos and finishers, the solution here could be in traits changing specifics of how each profession combos with fields. Elementalist kinda does that in fire, blasting fire fields grants fury.

    I dunno, it's just too easy for the fields you do use to be overwritten. If I can't blast enough water, I can't heal as fast. If I suddenly blast might instead... That helps very little. Cause between me and the druid we already had enough might. Really I just want to have control over what finisher I use in what field without the other 9 folks just changing the effects.

  • Crystal Paladin.3871Crystal Paladin.3871 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2019

    Finishers should always prioritize your own recently placed nearest fields first... If there are no active, nearest, your own fields for the finisher, it can use recently placed nearest other player's fields...

    If you placed fire field and expiry is 4 secs, and an ally placed water field which expires in 6 secs, then if you want might, blast it within the next 4 secs and if you want heal, blast it after 4 secs wait but within 6 secs(or the field owner blast it immediately)... If you want both, you do your blast and your ally do theirs

    Non owners of the fields can use their blast and it always prioritizes the recently placed closest field

    An already blasted field Should stay and ignore further blast by anyone but it should allow leap and projectile

  • There should be a separate bar/simple icon either on top of the boon/condi bar near your health orb or somewhere around the health orb to show us what kind of field you stand on... So if u're standing on fire field, it should have a little fire icon... So we'd know that we'll get might if we use blast and fire aura if we use leap skills

    Icon should work only if you stand on the specific field... This helps when ppl placed tons of fields and you always know it beforehand what u'll get if u use ur finishers

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BrokenGlass.9356 said:
    Non damaging conditions aren't worthless, but do need graphics. Like... When weakness actually makes a mob miss, we should see a little weakness icon pop up like we do for damaging ones. Ticking cripple icons and whatnot. Making them feel impactful will go along way.

    Though, if they add more combos and finishers, the solution here could be in traits changing specifics of how each profession combos with fields. Elementalist kinda does that in fire, blasting fire fields grants fury.

    I dunno, it's just too easy for the fields you do use to be overwritten. If I can't blast enough water, I can't heal as fast. If I suddenly blast might instead... That helps very little. Cause between me and the druid we already had enough might. Really I just want to have control over what finisher I use in what field without the other 9 folks just changing the effects.

    I think your mixing up weakness and blind,
    Weakness turns half of all hits into glancing blows (that deal 50% less damage)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weakness

  • Still want a little weakness flag to pop up when it's one of those hits.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2019

    Party/Player priority and multi blast would be how i'd do it.

    If you're alone or in a large squad, then you only prioratize your own fields over others and you'll always trigger combos in your fields before anyone elses.

    If your in a 5 man party or 10 man raid squad however then you gain the advantage of being able to trigger multiple combo fields at the same time so long as those fields are placed by players your party/raid group, We can call this combo stacking.

    This could then be balanced via limiting it to one combo per field per player per duration, Ergo a field placed by your select group can only be triggered (and possibly even seen) by a player once during that fields active lifetime.
    So communication and planning would be required to get the most out of it, as such These groups could plan to stack several combo fields on top of one another and have every member of their group trigger a combo attack at the same time, or a group healer could co-ordinate with a support character to setup a Water healing/light condi clense combo field that the entire group could trigger at once.
    Likewise two players could co-ordinate a Fire/Poison field combo as your group is preparing to enter a burst phase, your squad triggers the stacking AoE might and weakness blast from the two fields, insta 25 might for your whole group and a big weakness duration for your foe, coupled with party wide protection and regen from your healer/support and your squad can just zergrush their foe for the next several seconds without any trouble and backoff once the weakness expires, then repeat once the two fields are ready to be stacked again.

    Could work great, specially if Anet added an option for party and squads so that they would not be able to see any skill effects or combo fields from players outside their group.
    This alone would be a huge benefit for PvE content like bounties and world bosses if the only effects you could see came from your party/squad members.

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BrokenGlass.9356 said:
    Non damaging conditions aren't worthless, but do need graphics. Like... When weakness actually makes a mob miss, we should see a little weakness icon pop up like we do for damaging ones. Ticking cripple icons and whatnot. Making them feel impactful will go along way.

    Weakness results in glancing blows which already has a popup.

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