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Nerf condi thief

Bazooka.3590Bazooka.3590 Member ✭✭✭

for good

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  • Doto.6357Doto.6357 Member ✭✭✭

    In my opinion, adding an icd of around 6-15 seconds (roughly) on immobilise proccing poison via panic strike would be enough to dissuade the constant sword 2 spam while also preserving the strength of the build outside of spamming one ability. This change would also not hurt power s/d too much.

  • Did a thief kill u? Lol

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    What is the issue? The condition damage? The amount of CC? Stealth? A combination of those?
    Which skills are problematics? Which traits are problematics?
    Is it related to initiative? Is it related to endurance?

    Give some explanations please.

  • witcher.3197witcher.3197 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @Doto.6357 said:
    In my opinion, adding an icd of around 6-15 seconds (roughly) on immobilise proccing poison via panic strike would be enough to dissuade the constant sword 2 spam while also preserving the strength of the build outside of spamming one ability. This change would also not hurt power s/d too much.

    Or adjust the trait to apply the poison specifically on pistol 2 instead of any immob in general.

    I feel like that was the goal, adding poison to pistol which is a condi weapon and has spammable immob on skill 2, but they forgot that sword also had a spammable immob so now nobody plays pistol.

  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭✭

    People always say “nerf condi thief” and then fail to realize that:

    1. There are multiple condition builds for thief that all have different mechanics and methods. You have to name specific abilities if you want to be understood by the rest of the player base.
    2. Individually, none of those mechanics produces a huge spike of conditions.
    3. Fighting a condi thief is about understanding what combination of abilities the thief has to successfully hit you with for you to be spiked with conditions.
    4. If you don’t use cleanse in your build you aren’t a good baseline for balance against any condition build, regardless of whether it is attached to thief.

    Ask a thief to help identify issues with your build, gameplay, or issues with specific thief skills/traits. Plenty of us are glad to help.

    Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
    Deadeye (Thief)
    Commandant of P/D and Apex Predator

  • Zephoid.4263Zephoid.4263 Member ✭✭✭

    the 'problem' is that a power weapon set is generating so many condis. There are very few abilities a condi thief uses that have a tell because most of the passives will trigger off conditions that can be generated by multiple abilities. Where most classes have specific abilities you can dodge, thief... well you have to avoid everything.

    Imo, this is fine due to thief natural lack of durability. However, the problem is STILL dagger storm. Long duration invulnerability kind of negates the problems of a class whose weakness is related to durability. It also allows condi thief to stay in combat, procing more condis off passives and letting the condi ticks to progress.

  • DS is not invulnerability, I don't know why this is stated so often. U are still affected by condi's other than slow. Theres more than enough aoe's around these days that can chew a lot off a thief's small hp pool. Plus it's on 3 sec skill on a long CD unless ofcourse u luck out with improv's rng which ur prob not even running in a condi build.

  • Smoosh.2718Smoosh.2718 Member ✭✭✭

    I didnt realise how powerful the Poison stacks were till the other day from Dead eye, just getting marked alone can take you to 50% HP if you've run out of Condi clenses.
    I did meet one Deadeye who was able to quickly stack up 16 stacks of poison onto you, with other cover conditions which rapidly kills the oposition player.

    I can not stress this enough, condition damage style play makes pvp boring, dull and not fun. If something is not addressed with condition damage's dominance when it comes to cheese, PvP will lose its already dying appeal .

  • rowdy.5107rowdy.5107 Member ✭✭✭

    sounds like a D/D or S/D thief smoked him and he cant come up with a counter with his class to beat them. Maybe you should learn thief and what the strong/weak points are in the class. Instead of coming onto the forums and crying about it.

  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741

    S/D is common but not the only viable build. What you described can be stopped by a single major cleanse. Then, because you know they are there and targeting you, use active defensive skills and, as you mentioned, forcing them to spend initiative on defense themselves.

    You can also kite away from the wall they are teleporting behind from. This limits the range of their return and forces them to pick a different target if they want to keep abusing the LoS advantage from Sword 2.

    You can also, knowing that they are coming after you, but unable to see you well from behind the wall, lay down traps/large AoE skills because you know they are coming back to you.

    It’s not that hard to shut this down compared to many other builds.

    Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
    Deadeye (Thief)
    Commandant of P/D and Apex Predator

  • @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @saerni.2584 said:
    People always say “nerf condi thief” and then fail to realize that:

    1. There are multiple condition builds for thief that all have different mechanics and methods. You have to name specific abilities if you want to be understood by the rest of the player base.
    2. Individually, none of those mechanics produces a huge spike of conditions.
    3. Fighting a condi thief is about understanding what combination of abilities the thief has to successfully hit you with for you to be spiked with conditions.
    4. If you don’t use cleanse in your build you aren’t a good baseline for balance against any condition build, regardless of whether it is attached to thief.

    Ask a thief to help identify issues with your build, gameplay, or issues with specific thief skills/traits. Plenty of us are glad to help.

    1. He's obviously talking about S/D as its the only viable build.

    2. No, it's a combination of all things deadly arts, lotus training and the occasional combo finisher in shortbow 4.

    3. They have to hit with infiltrator strike from behind a wall. This will immob and apply poison through panic strike, deadly ambition (I think this is the name) venom and lotus training. Throw in a steal while he's immob for some extra condis. This results in 6(?) Different condis and about 12 stacks of poison. They literally just have to hit sword 2, no risk as you can just port back if they dodge.

    4. Nothing, except maybe water Weaver and conversion Holo can outcleanse the application. The key to fighting them is making them use initiative on surviving. Hard sticking on them.> @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

      DS is not invulnerability, I don't know why this is stated so often. U are still affected by condi's other than slow. Theres more than enough aoe's around these days that can chew a lot off a thief's small hp pool. Plus it's on 3 sec skill on a long CD unless ofcourse u luck out with improv's rng which ur prob not even running in a condi build.

    It's an evade that evades all incoming stacks just cleanse before you use it. The only thing that can effect you is tethers (spellbreaker and dragonhunter) and ward effects (staff Ele, staff guard and hammer guard). So about as close to an invuln as it gets.

    Any aoe condi effect it, try bs through any other thiefs poison field or scourges condi aoe's or ele fire etc etc all can take 75% of a thiefs health. So no it's not complete invulnerability

  • Zephoid.4263Zephoid.4263 Member ✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @saerni.2584 said:
    People always say “nerf condi thief” and then fail to realize that:

    1. There are multiple condition builds for thief that all have different mechanics and methods. You have to name specific abilities if you want to be understood by the rest of the player base.
    2. Individually, none of those mechanics produces a huge spike of conditions.
    3. Fighting a condi thief is about understanding what combination of abilities the thief has to successfully hit you with for you to be spiked with conditions.
    4. If you don’t use cleanse in your build you aren’t a good baseline for balance against any condition build, regardless of whether it is attached to thief.

    Ask a thief to help identify issues with your build, gameplay, or issues with specific thief skills/traits. Plenty of us are glad to help.

    1. He's obviously talking about S/D as its the only viable build.

    2. No, it's a combination of all things deadly arts, lotus training and the occasional combo finisher in shortbow 4.

    3. They have to hit with infiltrator strike from behind a wall. This will immob and apply poison through panic strike, deadly ambition (I think this is the name) venom and lotus training. Throw in a steal while he's immob for some extra condis. This results in 6(?) Different condis and about 12 stacks of poison. They literally just have to hit sword 2, no risk as you can just port back if they dodge.

    4. Nothing, except maybe water Weaver and conversion Holo can outcleanse the application. The key to fighting them is making them use initiative on surviving. Hard sticking on them.> @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

      DS is not invulnerability, I don't know why this is stated so often. U are still affected by condi's other than slow. Theres more than enough aoe's around these days that can chew a lot off a thief's small hp pool. Plus it's on 3 sec skill on a long CD unless ofcourse u luck out with improv's rng which ur prob not even running in a condi build.

    It's an evade that evades all incoming stacks just cleanse before you use it. The only thing that can effect you is tethers (spellbreaker and dragonhunter) and ward effects (staff Ele, staff guard and hammer guard). So about as close to an invuln as it gets.

    Any aoe condi effect it, try bs through any other thiefs poison field or scourges condi aoe's or ele fire etc etc all can take 75% of a thiefs health. So no it's not complete invulnerability

    DS evades all incoming hits, including those generated by AoEs. It will evade scourge's shades and other thief's shortbow 4s. As stated, only a tiny number of effects in the game can effect you while in DS.

  • babazhook.6805babazhook.6805 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2019

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @saerni.2584 said:
    People always say “nerf condi thief” and then fail to realize that:

    1. There are multiple condition builds for thief that all have different mechanics and methods. You have to name specific abilities if you want to be understood by the rest of the player base.
    2. Individually, none of those mechanics produces a huge spike of conditions.
    3. Fighting a condi thief is about understanding what combination of abilities the thief has to successfully hit you with for you to be spiked with conditions.
    4. If you don’t use cleanse in your build you aren’t a good baseline for balance against any condition build, regardless of whether it is attached to thief.

    Ask a thief to help identify issues with your build, gameplay, or issues with specific thief skills/traits. Plenty of us are glad to help.

    1. He's obviously talking about S/D as its the only viable build.

    2. No, it's a combination of all things deadly arts, lotus training and the occasional combo finisher in shortbow 4.

    3. They have to hit with infiltrator strike from behind a wall. This will immob and apply poison through panic strike, deadly ambition (I think this is the name) venom and lotus training. Throw in a steal while he's immob for some extra condis. This results in 6(?) Different condis and about 12 stacks of poison. They literally just have to hit sword 2, no risk as you can just port back if they dodge.

    4. Nothing, except maybe water Weaver and conversion Holo can outcleanse the application. The key to fighting them is making them use initiative on surviving. Hard sticking on them.> @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

      DS is not invulnerability, I don't know why this is stated so often. U are still affected by condi's other than slow. Theres more than enough aoe's around these days that can chew a lot off a thief's small hp pool. Plus it's on 3 sec skill on a long CD unless ofcourse u luck out with improv's rng which ur prob not even running in a condi build.

    It's an evade that evades all incoming stacks just cleanse before you use it. The only thing that can effect you is tethers (spellbreaker and dragonhunter) and ward effects (staff Ele, staff guard and hammer guard). So about as close to an invuln as it gets.

    When I am on my own s/p power thief facing your mentioned s/d condition , I am quite capable of flushing away any conditions applied. That Port REMOVES conditions and coupled with other cleanses condi s/d is going to run out of INI and means to apply his poison via an Immob before I run out of cleanses.

    My own shout warrior using shake it off is more then capable of keeping ahead of those condition stacks. That builds weakness is the ability to engage but it hardly concerned over the conditions from an s/d thief. P/d thief is much more effective against him. P/d thief using shadows embrace and trickster can also keep up with the condition adds from the s/d build.

    S/d condition is most effective against people that do not trait enough cleanses or that do not kite. The burst opening of conditions you outline is in fact generally only effective against persons with limited cleanses. If you are facing a person with sufficient cleanses he cleanses that burst quite readily and then you are crippled until your next burst ready giving that enemy time to recover health. It generally better to space out condition applications in such a match up and not use them all at once.

  • Math.5123Math.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @babazhook.6805 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @saerni.2584 said:
    People always say “nerf condi thief” and then fail to realize that:

    1. There are multiple condition builds for thief that all have different mechanics and methods. You have to name specific abilities if you want to be understood by the rest of the player base.
    2. Individually, none of those mechanics produces a huge spike of conditions.
    3. Fighting a condi thief is about understanding what combination of abilities the thief has to successfully hit you with for you to be spiked with conditions.
    4. If you don’t use cleanse in your build you aren’t a good baseline for balance against any condition build, regardless of whether it is attached to thief.

    Ask a thief to help identify issues with your build, gameplay, or issues with specific thief skills/traits. Plenty of us are glad to help.

    1. He's obviously talking about S/D as its the only viable build.

    2. No, it's a combination of all things deadly arts, lotus training and the occasional combo finisher in shortbow 4.

    3. They have to hit with infiltrator strike from behind a wall. This will immob and apply poison through panic strike, deadly ambition (I think this is the name) venom and lotus training. Throw in a steal while he's immob for some extra condis. This results in 6(?) Different condis and about 12 stacks of poison. They literally just have to hit sword 2, no risk as you can just port back if they dodge.

    4. Nothing, except maybe water Weaver and conversion Holo can outcleanse the application. The key to fighting them is making them use initiative on surviving. Hard sticking on them.> @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

      DS is not invulnerability, I don't know why this is stated so often. U are still affected by condi's other than slow. Theres more than enough aoe's around these days that can chew a lot off a thief's small hp pool. Plus it's on 3 sec skill on a long CD unless ofcourse u luck out with improv's rng which ur prob not even running in a condi build.

    It's an evade that evades all incoming stacks just cleanse before you use it. The only thing that can effect you is tethers (spellbreaker and dragonhunter) and ward effects (staff Ele, staff guard and hammer guard). So about as close to an invuln as it gets.

    When I am on my own s/p power thief facing your mentioned s/d condition , I am quite capable of flushing away any conditions applied. That Port REMOVES conditions and coupled with other cleanses condi s/d is going to run out of INI and means to apply his poison via an Immob before I run out of cleanses.

    My own shout warrior using shake it off is more then capable of keeping ahead of those condition stacks. That builds weakness is the ability to engage but it hardly concerned over the conditions from an s/d thief. P/d thief is much more effective against him. P/d thief using shadows embrace and trickster can also keep up with the condition adds from the s/d build.

    S/d condition is most effective against people that do not trait enough cleanses or that do not kite.

    Yeah but running a shout war will render you useless against everything else.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • babazhook.6805babazhook.6805 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @babazhook.6805 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @saerni.2584 said:
    People always say “nerf condi thief” and then fail to realize that:

    1. There are multiple condition builds for thief that all have different mechanics and methods. You have to name specific abilities if you want to be understood by the rest of the player base.
    2. Individually, none of those mechanics produces a huge spike of conditions.
    3. Fighting a condi thief is about understanding what combination of abilities the thief has to successfully hit you with for you to be spiked with conditions.
    4. If you don’t use cleanse in your build you aren’t a good baseline for balance against any condition build, regardless of whether it is attached to thief.

    Ask a thief to help identify issues with your build, gameplay, or issues with specific thief skills/traits. Plenty of us are glad to help.

    1. He's obviously talking about S/D as its the only viable build.

    2. No, it's a combination of all things deadly arts, lotus training and the occasional combo finisher in shortbow 4.

    3. They have to hit with infiltrator strike from behind a wall. This will immob and apply poison through panic strike, deadly ambition (I think this is the name) venom and lotus training. Throw in a steal while he's immob for some extra condis. This results in 6(?) Different condis and about 12 stacks of poison. They literally just have to hit sword 2, no risk as you can just port back if they dodge.

    4. Nothing, except maybe water Weaver and conversion Holo can outcleanse the application. The key to fighting them is making them use initiative on surviving. Hard sticking on them.> @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

      DS is not invulnerability, I don't know why this is stated so often. U are still affected by condi's other than slow. Theres more than enough aoe's around these days that can chew a lot off a thief's small hp pool. Plus it's on 3 sec skill on a long CD unless ofcourse u luck out with improv's rng which ur prob not even running in a condi build.

    It's an evade that evades all incoming stacks just cleanse before you use it. The only thing that can effect you is tethers (spellbreaker and dragonhunter) and ward effects (staff Ele, staff guard and hammer guard). So about as close to an invuln as it gets.

    When I am on my own s/p power thief facing your mentioned s/d condition , I am quite capable of flushing away any conditions applied. That Port REMOVES conditions and coupled with other cleanses condi s/d is going to run out of INI and means to apply his poison via an Immob before I run out of cleanses.

    My own shout warrior using shake it off is more then capable of keeping ahead of those condition stacks. That builds weakness is the ability to engage but it hardly concerned over the conditions from an s/d thief. P/d thief is much more effective against him. P/d thief using shadows embrace and trickster can also keep up with the condition adds from the s/d build.

    S/d condition is most effective against people that do not trait enough cleanses or that do not kite.

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @babazhook.6805 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @saerni.2584 said:
    People always say “nerf condi thief” and then fail to realize that:

    1. There are multiple condition builds for thief that all have different mechanics and methods. You have to name specific abilities if you want to be understood by the rest of the player base.
    2. Individually, none of those mechanics produces a huge spike of conditions.
    3. Fighting a condi thief is about understanding what combination of abilities the thief has to successfully hit you with for you to be spiked with conditions.
    4. If you don’t use cleanse in your build you aren’t a good baseline for balance against any condition build, regardless of whether it is attached to thief.

    Ask a thief to help identify issues with your build, gameplay, or issues with specific thief skills/traits. Plenty of us are glad to help.

    1. He's obviously talking about S/D as its the only viable build.

    2. No, it's a combination of all things deadly arts, lotus training and the occasional combo finisher in shortbow 4.

    3. They have to hit with infiltrator strike from behind a wall. This will immob and apply poison through panic strike, deadly ambition (I think this is the name) venom and lotus training. Throw in a steal while he's immob for some extra condis. This results in 6(?) Different condis and about 12 stacks of poison. They literally just have to hit sword 2, no risk as you can just port back if they dodge.

    4. Nothing, except maybe water Weaver and conversion Holo can outcleanse the application. The key to fighting them is making them use initiative on surviving. Hard sticking on them.> @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

      DS is not invulnerability, I don't know why this is stated so often. U are still affected by condi's other than slow. Theres more than enough aoe's around these days that can chew a lot off a thief's small hp pool. Plus it's on 3 sec skill on a long CD unless ofcourse u luck out with improv's rng which ur prob not even running in a condi build.

    It's an evade that evades all incoming stacks just cleanse before you use it. The only thing that can effect you is tethers (spellbreaker and dragonhunter) and ward effects (staff Ele, staff guard and hammer guard). So about as close to an invuln as it gets.

    When I am on my own s/p power thief facing your mentioned s/d condition , I am quite capable of flushing away any conditions applied. That Port REMOVES conditions and coupled with other cleanses condi s/d is going to run out of INI and means to apply his poison via an Immob before I run out of cleanses.

    My own shout warrior using shake it off is more then capable of keeping ahead of those condition stacks. That builds weakness is the ability to engage but it hardly concerned over the conditions from an s/d thief. P/d thief is much more effective against him. P/d thief using shadows embrace and trickster can also keep up with the condition adds from the s/d build.

    S/d condition is most effective against people that do not trait enough cleanses or that do not kite.

    Yeah but running a shout war will render you useless against everything else.

    Oh he is not useless at all. He is specced to tank and if you engage at melee will churn out plenty of damage even as he shrugs off your own.

  • Math.5123Math.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @babazhook.6805 said:

    @babazhook.6805 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @saerni.2584 said:
    People always say “nerf condi thief” and then fail to realize that:

    1. There are multiple condition builds for thief that all have different mechanics and methods. You have to name specific abilities if you want to be understood by the rest of the player base.
    2. Individually, none of those mechanics produces a huge spike of conditions.
    3. Fighting a condi thief is about understanding what combination of abilities the thief has to successfully hit you with for you to be spiked with conditions.
    4. If you don’t use cleanse in your build you aren’t a good baseline for balance against any condition build, regardless of whether it is attached to thief.

    Ask a thief to help identify issues with your build, gameplay, or issues with specific thief skills/traits. Plenty of us are glad to help.

    1. He's obviously talking about S/D as its the only viable build.

    2. No, it's a combination of all things deadly arts, lotus training and the occasional combo finisher in shortbow 4.

    3. They have to hit with infiltrator strike from behind a wall. This will immob and apply poison through panic strike, deadly ambition (I think this is the name) venom and lotus training. Throw in a steal while he's immob for some extra condis. This results in 6(?) Different condis and about 12 stacks of poison. They literally just have to hit sword 2, no risk as you can just port back if they dodge.

    4. Nothing, except maybe water Weaver and conversion Holo can outcleanse the application. The key to fighting them is making them use initiative on surviving. Hard sticking on them.> @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

      DS is not invulnerability, I don't know why this is stated so often. U are still affected by condi's other than slow. Theres more than enough aoe's around these days that can chew a lot off a thief's small hp pool. Plus it's on 3 sec skill on a long CD unless ofcourse u luck out with improv's rng which ur prob not even running in a condi build.

    It's an evade that evades all incoming stacks just cleanse before you use it. The only thing that can effect you is tethers (spellbreaker and dragonhunter) and ward effects (staff Ele, staff guard and hammer guard). So about as close to an invuln as it gets.

    When I am on my own s/p power thief facing your mentioned s/d condition , I am quite capable of flushing away any conditions applied. That Port REMOVES conditions and coupled with other cleanses condi s/d is going to run out of INI and means to apply his poison via an Immob before I run out of cleanses.

    My own shout warrior using shake it off is more then capable of keeping ahead of those condition stacks. That builds weakness is the ability to engage but it hardly concerned over the conditions from an s/d thief. P/d thief is much more effective against him. P/d thief using shadows embrace and trickster can also keep up with the condition adds from the s/d build.

    S/d condition is most effective against people that do not trait enough cleanses or that do not kite.

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @babazhook.6805 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @saerni.2584 said:
    People always say “nerf condi thief” and then fail to realize that:

    1. There are multiple condition builds for thief that all have different mechanics and methods. You have to name specific abilities if you want to be understood by the rest of the player base.
    2. Individually, none of those mechanics produces a huge spike of conditions.
    3. Fighting a condi thief is about understanding what combination of abilities the thief has to successfully hit you with for you to be spiked with conditions.
    4. If you don’t use cleanse in your build you aren’t a good baseline for balance against any condition build, regardless of whether it is attached to thief.

    Ask a thief to help identify issues with your build, gameplay, or issues with specific thief skills/traits. Plenty of us are glad to help.

    1. He's obviously talking about S/D as its the only viable build.

    2. No, it's a combination of all things deadly arts, lotus training and the occasional combo finisher in shortbow 4.

    3. They have to hit with infiltrator strike from behind a wall. This will immob and apply poison through panic strike, deadly ambition (I think this is the name) venom and lotus training. Throw in a steal while he's immob for some extra condis. This results in 6(?) Different condis and about 12 stacks of poison. They literally just have to hit sword 2, no risk as you can just port back if they dodge.

    4. Nothing, except maybe water Weaver and conversion Holo can outcleanse the application. The key to fighting them is making them use initiative on surviving. Hard sticking on them.> @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

      DS is not invulnerability, I don't know why this is stated so often. U are still affected by condi's other than slow. Theres more than enough aoe's around these days that can chew a lot off a thief's small hp pool. Plus it's on 3 sec skill on a long CD unless ofcourse u luck out with improv's rng which ur prob not even running in a condi build.

    It's an evade that evades all incoming stacks just cleanse before you use it. The only thing that can effect you is tethers (spellbreaker and dragonhunter) and ward effects (staff Ele, staff guard and hammer guard). So about as close to an invuln as it gets.

    When I am on my own s/p power thief facing your mentioned s/d condition , I am quite capable of flushing away any conditions applied. That Port REMOVES conditions and coupled with other cleanses condi s/d is going to run out of INI and means to apply his poison via an Immob before I run out of cleanses.

    My own shout warrior using shake it off is more then capable of keeping ahead of those condition stacks. That builds weakness is the ability to engage but it hardly concerned over the conditions from an s/d thief. P/d thief is much more effective against him. P/d thief using shadows embrace and trickster can also keep up with the condition adds from the s/d build.

    S/d condition is most effective against people that do not trait enough cleanses or that do not kite.

    Yeah but running a shout war will render you useless against everything else.

    Oh he is not useless at all. He is specced to tank and if you engage at melee will churn out plenty of damage even as he shrugs off your own.

    I rest my case.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • @babazhook.6805 said:

    @babazhook.6805 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @saerni.2584 said:
    People always say “nerf condi thief” and then fail to realize that:

    1. There are multiple condition builds for thief that all have different mechanics and methods. You have to name specific abilities if you want to be understood by the rest of the player base.
    2. Individually, none of those mechanics produces a huge spike of conditions.
    3. Fighting a condi thief is about understanding what combination of abilities the thief has to successfully hit you with for you to be spiked with conditions.
    4. If you don’t use cleanse in your build you aren’t a good baseline for balance against any condition build, regardless of whether it is attached to thief.

    Ask a thief to help identify issues with your build, gameplay, or issues with specific thief skills/traits. Plenty of us are glad to help.

    1. He's obviously talking about S/D as its the only viable build.

    2. No, it's a combination of all things deadly arts, lotus training and the occasional combo finisher in shortbow 4.

    3. They have to hit with infiltrator strike from behind a wall. This will immob and apply poison through panic strike, deadly ambition (I think this is the name) venom and lotus training. Throw in a steal while he's immob for some extra condis. This results in 6(?) Different condis and about 12 stacks of poison. They literally just have to hit sword 2, no risk as you can just port back if they dodge.

    4. Nothing, except maybe water Weaver and conversion Holo can outcleanse the application. The key to fighting them is making them use initiative on surviving. Hard sticking on them.> @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

      DS is not invulnerability, I don't know why this is stated so often. U are still affected by condi's other than slow. Theres more than enough aoe's around these days that can chew a lot off a thief's small hp pool. Plus it's on 3 sec skill on a long CD unless ofcourse u luck out with improv's rng which ur prob not even running in a condi build.

    It's an evade that evades all incoming stacks just cleanse before you use it. The only thing that can effect you is tethers (spellbreaker and dragonhunter) and ward effects (staff Ele, staff guard and hammer guard). So about as close to an invuln as it gets.

    When I am on my own s/p power thief facing your mentioned s/d condition , I am quite capable of flushing away any conditions applied. That Port REMOVES conditions and coupled with other cleanses condi s/d is going to run out of INI and means to apply his poison via an Immob before I run out of cleanses.

    My own shout warrior using shake it off is more then capable of keeping ahead of those condition stacks. That builds weakness is the ability to engage but it hardly concerned over the conditions from an s/d thief. P/d thief is much more effective against him. P/d thief using shadows embrace and trickster can also keep up with the condition adds from the s/d build.

    S/d condition is most effective against people that do not trait enough cleanses or that do not kite.

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @babazhook.6805 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @saerni.2584 said:
    People always say “nerf condi thief” and then fail to realize that:

    1. There are multiple condition builds for thief that all have different mechanics and methods. You have to name specific abilities if you want to be understood by the rest of the player base.
    2. Individually, none of those mechanics produces a huge spike of conditions.
    3. Fighting a condi thief is about understanding what combination of abilities the thief has to successfully hit you with for you to be spiked with conditions.
    4. If you don’t use cleanse in your build you aren’t a good baseline for balance against any condition build, regardless of whether it is attached to thief.

    Ask a thief to help identify issues with your build, gameplay, or issues with specific thief skills/traits. Plenty of us are glad to help.

    1. He's obviously talking about S/D as its the only viable build.

    2. No, it's a combination of all things deadly arts, lotus training and the occasional combo finisher in shortbow 4.

    3. They have to hit with infiltrator strike from behind a wall. This will immob and apply poison through panic strike, deadly ambition (I think this is the name) venom and lotus training. Throw in a steal while he's immob for some extra condis. This results in 6(?) Different condis and about 12 stacks of poison. They literally just have to hit sword 2, no risk as you can just port back if they dodge.

    4. Nothing, except maybe water Weaver and conversion Holo can outcleanse the application. The key to fighting them is making them use initiative on surviving. Hard sticking on them.> @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

      DS is not invulnerability, I don't know why this is stated so often. U are still affected by condi's other than slow. Theres more than enough aoe's around these days that can chew a lot off a thief's small hp pool. Plus it's on 3 sec skill on a long CD unless ofcourse u luck out with improv's rng which ur prob not even running in a condi build.

    It's an evade that evades all incoming stacks just cleanse before you use it. The only thing that can effect you is tethers (spellbreaker and dragonhunter) and ward effects (staff Ele, staff guard and hammer guard). So about as close to an invuln as it gets.

    When I am on my own s/p power thief facing your mentioned s/d condition , I am quite capable of flushing away any conditions applied. That Port REMOVES conditions and coupled with other cleanses condi s/d is going to run out of INI and means to apply his poison via an Immob before I run out of cleanses.

    My own shout warrior using shake it off is more then capable of keeping ahead of those condition stacks. That builds weakness is the ability to engage but it hardly concerned over the conditions from an s/d thief. P/d thief is much more effective against him. P/d thief using shadows embrace and trickster can also keep up with the condition adds from the s/d build.

    S/d condition is most effective against people that do not trait enough cleanses or that do not kite.

    Yeah but running a shout war will render you useless against everything else.

    Oh he is not useless at all. He is specced to tank and if you engage at melee will churn out plenty of damage even as he shrugs off your own.

    A s/d shrugs off dps from a warrior or do u mean evades it?

  • Poledra Val.1490Poledra Val.1490 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2019

    This build is just a gimmick and it clearly carries terrible players to heights in pvp they have never been in before. It should be nerfed of course its literally one of the top 3 easiest things to use in pvp right now and is obviously effective.

    Its very counterproductive for a build to carry the player they dont really learn anything bar pressing 2-3 buttons.

    Once this build is nerfed you will witness an all mighty exodus of a huge percentage of thieves that will have there favorite toy taken away and will likely quit pvp or just move on to the next busted thing.

  • @Poledra Val.1490 said:
    This build is just a gimmick and it clearly carries terrible players to heights in pvp they have never been in before. It should be nerfed of course its literally one of the top 3 easiest things to use in pvp right now and is obviously effective.

    Its very counterproductive for a build to carry the player they dont really learn anything bar pressing 2-3 buttons.

    Once this build is nerfed you will witness an all mighty exodus of a huge percentage of thieves that will have there favorite toy taken away and will likely quit pvp or just move on to the next busted thing.

    U basically just described every popular espec and it's most popular build lmao. This is gw2 remember?

  • @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Poledra Val.1490 said:
    This build is just a gimmick and it clearly carries terrible players to heights in pvp they have never been in before. It should be nerfed of course its literally one of the top 3 easiest things to use in pvp right now and is obviously effective.

    Its very counterproductive for a build to carry the player they dont really learn anything bar pressing 2-3 buttons.

    Once this build is nerfed you will witness an all mighty exodus of a huge percentage of thieves that will have there favorite toy taken away and will likely quit pvp or just move on to the next busted thing.

    U basically just described every popular espec and it's most popular build lmao. This is gw2 remember?

    True but the ease of this build to use is honestly new levels of rediculousness.

  • Remove the sword2 immob, turn it into cripple + blind.

    Or just give thief the reworks it needs to not have to crutch on a certain set of skills/traits.

  • babazhook.6805babazhook.6805 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 12, 2019

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @babazhook.6805 said:

    @babazhook.6805 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @saerni.2584 said:
    People always say “nerf condi thief” and then fail to realize that:

    1. There are multiple condition builds for thief that all have different mechanics and methods. You have to name specific abilities if you want to be understood by the rest of the player base.
    2. Individually, none of those mechanics produces a huge spike of conditions.
    3. Fighting a condi thief is about understanding what combination of abilities the thief has to successfully hit you with for you to be spiked with conditions.
    4. If you don’t use cleanse in your build you aren’t a good baseline for balance against any condition build, regardless of whether it is attached to thief.

    Ask a thief to help identify issues with your build, gameplay, or issues with specific thief skills/traits. Plenty of us are glad to help.

    1. He's obviously talking about S/D as its the only viable build.

    2. No, it's a combination of all things deadly arts, lotus training and the occasional combo finisher in shortbow 4.

    3. They have to hit with infiltrator strike from behind a wall. This will immob and apply poison through panic strike, deadly ambition (I think this is the name) venom and lotus training. Throw in a steal while he's immob for some extra condis. This results in 6(?) Different condis and about 12 stacks of poison. They literally just have to hit sword 2, no risk as you can just port back if they dodge.

    4. Nothing, except maybe water Weaver and conversion Holo can outcleanse the application. The key to fighting them is making them use initiative on surviving. Hard sticking on them.> @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

      DS is not invulnerability, I don't know why this is stated so often. U are still affected by condi's other than slow. Theres more than enough aoe's around these days that can chew a lot off a thief's small hp pool. Plus it's on 3 sec skill on a long CD unless ofcourse u luck out with improv's rng which ur prob not even running in a condi build.

    It's an evade that evades all incoming stacks just cleanse before you use it. The only thing that can effect you is tethers (spellbreaker and dragonhunter) and ward effects (staff Ele, staff guard and hammer guard). So about as close to an invuln as it gets.

    When I am on my own s/p power thief facing your mentioned s/d condition , I am quite capable of flushing away any conditions applied. That Port REMOVES conditions and coupled with other cleanses condi s/d is going to run out of INI and means to apply his poison via an Immob before I run out of cleanses.

    My own shout warrior using shake it off is more then capable of keeping ahead of those condition stacks. That builds weakness is the ability to engage but it hardly concerned over the conditions from an s/d thief. P/d thief is much more effective against him. P/d thief using shadows embrace and trickster can also keep up with the condition adds from the s/d build.

    S/d condition is most effective against people that do not trait enough cleanses or that do not kite.

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @babazhook.6805 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @saerni.2584 said:
    People always say “nerf condi thief” and then fail to realize that:

    1. There are multiple condition builds for thief that all have different mechanics and methods. You have to name specific abilities if you want to be understood by the rest of the player base.
    2. Individually, none of those mechanics produces a huge spike of conditions.
    3. Fighting a condi thief is about understanding what combination of abilities the thief has to successfully hit you with for you to be spiked with conditions.
    4. If you don’t use cleanse in your build you aren’t a good baseline for balance against any condition build, regardless of whether it is attached to thief.

    Ask a thief to help identify issues with your build, gameplay, or issues with specific thief skills/traits. Plenty of us are glad to help.

    1. He's obviously talking about S/D as its the only viable build.

    2. No, it's a combination of all things deadly arts, lotus training and the occasional combo finisher in shortbow 4.

    3. They have to hit with infiltrator strike from behind a wall. This will immob and apply poison through panic strike, deadly ambition (I think this is the name) venom and lotus training. Throw in a steal while he's immob for some extra condis. This results in 6(?) Different condis and about 12 stacks of poison. They literally just have to hit sword 2, no risk as you can just port back if they dodge.

    4. Nothing, except maybe water Weaver and conversion Holo can outcleanse the application. The key to fighting them is making them use initiative on surviving. Hard sticking on them.> @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

      DS is not invulnerability, I don't know why this is stated so often. U are still affected by condi's other than slow. Theres more than enough aoe's around these days that can chew a lot off a thief's small hp pool. Plus it's on 3 sec skill on a long CD unless ofcourse u luck out with improv's rng which ur prob not even running in a condi build.

    It's an evade that evades all incoming stacks just cleanse before you use it. The only thing that can effect you is tethers (spellbreaker and dragonhunter) and ward effects (staff Ele, staff guard and hammer guard). So about as close to an invuln as it gets.

    When I am on my own s/p power thief facing your mentioned s/d condition , I am quite capable of flushing away any conditions applied. That Port REMOVES conditions and coupled with other cleanses condi s/d is going to run out of INI and means to apply his poison via an Immob before I run out of cleanses.

    My own shout warrior using shake it off is more then capable of keeping ahead of those condition stacks. That builds weakness is the ability to engage but it hardly concerned over the conditions from an s/d thief. P/d thief is much more effective against him. P/d thief using shadows embrace and trickster can also keep up with the condition adds from the s/d build.

    S/d condition is most effective against people that do not trait enough cleanses or that do not kite.

    Yeah but running a shout war will render you useless against everything else.

    Oh he is not useless at all. He is specced to tank and if you engage at melee will churn out plenty of damage even as he shrugs off your own.

    A s/d shrugs off dps from a warrior or do u mean evades it?

    No, the warrior I am speaking of will shrug off damage the enemy applies at melee range. In order to fight him the enemy has to kite and use range.Trying to exchange blows at melee they end up dead more often then not.

  • birdboy.6509birdboy.6509 Member ✭✭
    edited September 12, 2019

    In the spirit of full disclosure, I will preface this post by saying for those of you who don't know me or my main account (anonymouse.4760), every season I have played I get to legend with thief. I will write this objectively and with as little bias as possible. It's important to know moving forward in this post that thief has 4 viable ranked specs SCROLL DOWN FOR TLDR
    1. Condi Thief
    2. Deadeye
    3. Staff thief
    4. Core Power

    I just want to point out a few things. . .

    1. Anet already addressed condi thief is getting nerfed, you can see it in the most recent suggested patch notes - deadly ambition ( the recently reworked trait ) is getting hit so that it has less burst and forces thieves to apply more sustained pressure. I anticipate post-season-update the aforementioned specs will become more popular among thief players. I am aware condi is disliked and frowned upon by a lot of players, ( a big reason as to why this thread has gotten so much attention ) so i'm sure a lot of you will be happy to read this.

    2. There's a lot of talk about condi thief being easy to use or broken yet of the players that make up the top 10 on the leaderboard not one of them is a condi thief, while the majority is holosmith / dps firebrand. In fact, the two thieves currently on it are a deadeye and a staff thief. In the top 25 - none of the account names I recognize belong to condi thief players. I can't speak for condi thief's effectiveness or rarity in gold or low plat which i'm assuming many of the players posting here reside in, as I am typically around 1770-1820 - but I'm sure it is more prevalent there. My point is that it's "ease of use" drops off heavily against more experienced players. Sound familiar? This is how thief has been since launch. every viable thief spec always garners complaints, because of the mechanics of the class being difficult to understand / counter.

    3. Be patient, the patch usually hits mid season, which is only a week or two away from now. In no time at all you'll be back to the forums reading complaints about how a perma stealth deadeye just one shot someone for a 13k deaths judgement, or a staff thief just survived a 1v2 and evaded ten times in a row. No matter how you look at it, thief mechanics will always be hard to deal with - sorry but that's just the nature of the class.

    Pick your poison

    • Kat

    *TLDR

    • condi thief confirmed getting nerfed soon, u wont c it as much because of how competitive the other options are
    • easier in silver / gold vs plat / legend
    • condi always gets more complaints than power, hence why there is more attention here than on deadeye which are both equally good in ranked IMO
    • thief in general gets alot of complaints because its burst is low counterplay and hard to understand not bc its more op than other meta classes
    • just as many guardians holos revs ect as there are thieves proves it isn't out of line with other meta classes*
  • Moonlight.1985Moonlight.1985 Member ✭✭
    edited September 12, 2019

    @birdboy.6509 said:
    In the spirit of full disclosure, I will preface this post by saying for those of you who don't know me or my main account (anonymouse.4760), every season I have played I get to legend with thief. I will write this objectively and with as little bias as possible. It's important to know moving forward in this post that thief has 4 viable ranked specs SCROLL DOWN FOR TLDR
    1. Condi Thief
    2. Deadeye
    3. Staff thief
    4. Core Power

    I just want to point out a few things. . .

    1. Anet already addressed condi thief is getting nerfed, you can see it in the most recent suggested patch notes - deadly ambition ( the recently reworked trait ) is getting hit so that it has less burst and forces thieves to apply more sustained pressure. I anticipate post-season-update the aforementioned specs will become more popular among thief players. I am aware condi is disliked and frowned upon by a lot of players, ( a big reason as to why this thread has gotten so much attention ) so i'm sure a lot of you will be happy to read this.

    2. There's a lot of talk about condi thief being easy to use or broken yet of the players that make up the top 10 on the leaderboard not one of them is a condi thief, while the majority is holosmith / dps firebrand. In fact, the two thieves currently on it are a deadeye and a staff thief. In the top 25 - none of the account names I recognize belong to condi thief players. I can't speak for condi thief's effectiveness or rarity in gold or low plat which i'm assuming many of the players posting here reside in, as I am typically around 1770-1820 - but I'm sure it is more prevalent there. My point is that it's "ease of use" drops off heavily against more experienced players. Sound familiar? This is how thief has been since launch. every viable thief spec always garners complaints, because of the mechanics of the class being difficult to understand / counter.

    3. Be patient, the patch usually hits mid season, which is only a week or two away from now. In no time at all you'll be back to the forums reading complaints about how a perma stealth deadeye just one shot someone for a 13k deaths judgement, or a staff thief just survived a 1v2 and evaded ten times in a row. No matter how you look at it, thief mechanics will always be hard to deal with - sorry but that's just the nature of the class.

    Pick your poison

    • Kat

    *TLDR

    • condi thief confirmed getting nerfed soon, u wont c it as much because of how competitive the other options are
    • easier in silver / gold vs plat / legend
    • condi always gets more complaints than power, hence why there is more attention here than on deadeye which are both equally good in ranked IMO
    • thief in general gets alot of complaints because its burst is low counterplay and hard to understand not bc its more op than other meta classes
    • just as many guardians holos revs ect as there are thieves proves it isn't out of line with other meta classes*

    The main issue is the deadly ambition trait + panic strike the former which is getting a change although it's definitely fake news that's a nerf since it's going from (3stacks of poison traited) 5sec icd ->(2stacks of poison traited) 2sec Icd. Basic math = every 10 sec thief applies 6 stacks of poison(traited) and after change(nerf hahaxd) applies 10stacks of poison . All they need to do is add an icd for the immob on poison in panic strike and condi thief won't be able to spam sword 2 and have ridiculous poison up time. Wrote this with "as little bias as possible" btw.

  • @Moonlight.1985 said:

    The main issue is the deadly ambition trait + panic strike the former which is getting a change although it's definitely fake news that's a nerf since it's going from (3stacks of poison traited) 5sec icd ->(2stacks of poison traited) 2sec Icd. Basic math = every 10 sec thief applies 6 stacks of poison(traited) and after change(nerf hahaxd) applies 10stacks of poison . All they need to do is add an icd for the immob on poison in panic strike and condi thief won't be able to spam sword 2 and have ridiculous poison up time. Wrote this with "as little bias as possible" btw.

    Nice try but you're not mentioning the duration decrease. I'll write this assuming it's traited as well
    3 stacks that last 3 seconds with an ICD of 5 seconds -- > 2 stacks that last 2 seconds with an ICD of 2 seconds
    Basically in order to achieve the same level of damage output in 10 seconds you would have to hit the target 5 times exactly on the 2 second intervals whereas previously you would only need hit the target once every 5 seconds. (That's not gonna happen often if at all)
    it's pretty obvious which version of the trait you'll average higher damage, and have higher burst all in one.
    "basic math" btw

  • Tycura.1982Tycura.1982 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 12, 2019

    I'm not a fan

  • alain.1659alain.1659 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 12, 2019

    Meh. Thought on it and decided that even anet does not care about it that much.

  • aymnad.9023aymnad.9023 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 12, 2019

    @birdboy.6509 said:
    2 stacks that last 2 seconds with an ICD of 2 seconds

    I am not a fan of this change at all. This means perma poison without any investment when thief as potent poison. Permanent pressure and reduced heal is so much fun. This is a really really small nerf.

  • RisenHowl.2419RisenHowl.2419 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @birdboy.6509 said:

    @Moonlight.1985 said:

    The main issue is the deadly ambition trait + panic strike the former which is getting a change although it's definitely fake news that's a nerf since it's going from (3stacks of poison traited) 5sec icd ->(2stacks of poison traited) 2sec Icd. Basic math = every 10 sec thief applies 6 stacks of poison(traited) and after change(nerf hahaxd) applies 10stacks of poison . All they need to do is add an icd for the immob on poison in panic strike and condi thief won't be able to spam sword 2 and have ridiculous poison up time. Wrote this with "as little bias as possible" btw.

    Nice try but you're not mentioning the duration decrease. I'll write this assuming it's traited as well
    3 stacks that last 3 seconds with an ICD of 5 seconds -- > 2 stacks that last 2 seconds with an ICD of 2 seconds
    Basically in order to achieve the same level of damage output in 10 seconds you would have to hit the target 5 times exactly on the 2 second intervals whereas previously you would only need hit the target once every 5 seconds. (That's not gonna happen often if at all)
    it's pretty obvious which version of the trait you'll average higher damage, and have higher burst all in one.
    "basic math" btw

    3x3=9x2 activations per 10s =18s poison per 10s

    2x2=4x5 activations per 10s = 20s poison per 10s

    It is basic math, this is a buff

  • rowdy.5107rowdy.5107 Member ✭✭✭

    d/d is far superior in my personal opinion so im not worried lol

  • warrior runs around with 25 might all the time guardian has like 21685473 buffs on him all the time and dont get me started on mesmers and necromancers who just dont die yet I dont see people complaining about that. its always the thief. condi is almost like the only viable pvp build right now and they want that nerfed as well. well tell us what should they buff instead? you just want to one shot almost every thief without them hitting back to you dont you? its ok you can admit. people will be happy when the class deleted from the game.

  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2, 2019

    Lol those players in the clip were so bad.

    Edit: And if you bothered to actually read what I wrote you’d see I wasn’t defending the build so much as pointing out that what people identify as being “OP” about it usually isn’t actually what is dangerous about it.

    Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
    Deadeye (Thief)
    Commandant of P/D and Apex Predator

  • OutOfOrder.3719OutOfOrder.3719 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 5, 2019

    Apparently, condi thief was bugged for poison application. It was fixed November 4th :)

  • Hello there,
    I recently went back to gw2 trying out double shortbow.
    Since I am doing mediocre with it [Kattacked]'s build.
    I was wondering how I am affected by this nerf/change.
    I did notice I have trouble getting the needed 5stacks for the Interrupt on S.Bow4.
    I do use Spider venom to make up for it.
    Looks like double S.Bow got hit unintentionally or am I wrong ?

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 10, 2019

    I feel the changes were good. The new deadly ambition is less abusable but functions better. W/o a cd there’s some situations it can deal more poison and now that they put the poison on sword 3 there is actually a reason to use this great skill, say swipe+sword 3 as a burst which now actually does something. It also helps cleaving since before u had to stick to dodging and steal for cleave which is just terribad. As far as spider venom I’m glad it was nerfed because players who couldn’t play effectively would just use this with say 3 team mates and it could one shot targets, not to mention the always annoying thief’s guild + spider venom for 20/30 stacks of poison when it hits.

    @birdboy.6509 said:
    In the spirit of full disclosure, I will preface this post by saying for those of you who don't know me or my main account (anonymouse.4760), every season I have played I get to legend with thief. I will write this objectively and with as little bias as possible. It's important to know moving forward in this post that thief has 4 viable ranked specs SCROLL DOWN FOR TLDR
    1. Condi Thief
    2. Deadeye
    3. Staff thief
    4. Core Power

    I just want to point out a few things. . .

    1. Anet already addressed condi thief is getting nerfed, you can see it in the most recent suggested patch notes - deadly ambition ( the recently reworked trait ) is getting hit so that it has less burst and forces thieves to apply more sustained pressure. I anticipate post-season-update the aforementioned specs will become more popular among thief players. I am aware condi is disliked and frowned upon by a lot of players, ( a big reason as to why this thread has gotten so much attention ) so i'm sure a lot of you will be happy to read this.

    2. There's a lot of talk about condi thief being easy to use or broken yet of the players that make up the top 10 on the leaderboard not one of them is a condi thief, while the majority is holosmith / dps firebrand. In fact, the two thieves currently on it are a deadeye and a staff thief. In the top 25 - none of the account names I recognize belong to condi thief players. I can't speak for condi thief's effectiveness or rarity in gold or low plat which i'm assuming many of the players posting here reside in, as I am typically around 1770-1820 - but I'm sure it is more prevalent there. My point is that it's "ease of use" drops off heavily against more experienced players. Sound familiar? This is how thief has been since launch. every viable thief spec always garners complaints, because of the mechanics of the class being difficult to understand / counter.

    3. Be patient, the patch usually hits mid season, which is only a week or two away from now. In no time at all you'll be back to the forums reading complaints about how a perma stealth deadeye just one shot someone for a 13k deaths judgement, or a staff thief just survived a 1v2 and evaded ten times in a row. No matter how you look at it, thief mechanics will always be hard to deal with - sorry but that's just the nature of the class.

    Pick your poison

    • Kat

    *TLDR

    • condi thief confirmed getting nerfed soon, u wont c it as much because of how competitive the other options are
    • easier in silver / gold vs plat / legend
    • condi always gets more complaints than power, hence why there is more attention here than on deadeye which are both equally good in ranked IMO
    • thief in general gets alot of complaints because its burst is low counterplay and hard to understand not bc its more op than other meta classes
    • just as many guardians holos revs ect as there are thieves proves it isn't out of line with other meta classes*

    As far as ppl saying it’s not good in top tier. I’m actually surprised that that was ever mentioned. I my self solo qued like 99% of last season and was at 1760( top ten) though I did decay at end of season to top 25 cuz didn’t wanna play the pissing game that is climbing on the last day. But in my experience condition thief is very good in top tier ranked as it counters many annoying ranked builds like holo, reaper, rev, ranger and most other thief builds- deadeye, the old bunker staff, dp, s/d, other condition thief’s and even the new s/p. I think we are still gonna see condition thief because with the new deadly ambition it’s just as good as a duelist and is a little better against a few bunker classes, not to mention nerfs to rampage, Holosmith and Mesmer make it ezier than ever to just reck these classes 1v1, which is a pretty helpful thing in ranked.
    So yeah condition thief is still good especially in ranked but I’ll admit to playing a power build now and again when against a full bunker FB/ele team fight comp. but that was always a weakness of this build before and after changes

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2019

    A case of the nver ending Thief Toxicity

    (posted 2016)

    'happy to see the bad builds back!'

    personal oppinion- I strongly believe that there is someone at Anet who is intentionally reversing all Thief nerfs as if nobody would notice them.

    It is as if this person really does not want Thief to be nerfed. A hard case of Favoritism at the top

    Again, it's an oppinion

    'A Condition-Bursting Thief, with style. Well, not so much style... Also, it appears as if the potato HATES it. Just, everything about it. He really brings the pain this time...'

    'Situations that are present are there because you allow and tolerate them to continue'

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Burnfall.9573 said:
    A case of never ending of Thief Toxicity

    (posted 2016)

    'happy to see the bad builds back!'

    'A Condition-Bursting Thief, with style. Well, not so much style... Also, it appears as if the potato HATES it. Just, everything about it. He really brings the pain this time...'

    Very educational thanks. For theory crafting I’d say if panic strike was like in that video(no poison proc on immob) we might see some weird builds. Maybe even some dagger:dagger action which I tested out is not too bad at 1v1 rn w/ like either acro or trickery, but it’s not very good at surviving plusses, in addition a very smart s/d condi thief would just zone u w/ sword 2 spam. But hey like I said if they remove panic strike poison we might see a little of it, but it might not be meta unless they seriously rework some of d/d tool kit

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Burnfall.9573 said:
    A case of the nver ending Thief Toxicity

    (posted 2016)

    'happy to see the bad builds back!'

    personal oppinion- I strongly believe that there is someone at Anet who is intentionally reversing all Thief nerfs as if nobody would notice them.

    It is as if this person really does not want Thief to be nerfed. A hard case of Favoritism at the top

    Again, it's an oppinion

    'A Condition-Bursting Thief, with style. Well, not so much style... Also, it appears as if the potato HATES it. Just, everything about it. He really brings the pain this time...'

    Lmao thief is not only one of the if not most nerfed classes it also seems like nerfs is all it gets most times.
    Man ur hate for thief has really blinded u.

  • @Dadnir.5038 said:
    What is the issue? The condition damage? The amount of CC? Stealth? A combination of those?
    Which skills are problematics? Which traits are problematics?
    Is it related to initiative? Is it related to endurance?

    Give some explanations please.

    I know this thread is fairly old and perhaps a bit outdated, but you're requiring information that someone wouldn't necessarily have unless they play thief themselves.

  • Ryo.5824Ryo.5824 Member ✭✭

    Who brought the thread back... But anyways P/D condi seems pretty relevant now.

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Condition thief rn is a counter pick to many class and forgive the metaphor but the numbers on this p/d build when they hit feels like a full burst from a core ranger plus a bird, only difference is you cannot heal or do anything besides use a cleanse but even then it’s risky becuz of confusion and poison