Bazooka.3590 Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 for good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doto.6357 Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 In my opinion, adding an icd of around 6-15 seconds (roughly) on immobilise proccing poison via panic strike would be enough to dissuade the constant sword 2 spam while also preserving the strength of the build outside of spamming one ability. This change would also not hurt power s/d too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 @Bazooka.3590 said:for goodIt is always helpful, useful and Anet sure will listen when ppl opening complain thread can point out what to be nerfed in such detailed way, showing immense game knowledge and bring such constructive ideas on how to change builds./s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 Did a thief kill u? Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 What is the issue? The condition damage? The amount of CC? Stealth? A combination of those?Which skills are problematics? Which traits are problematics?Is it related to initiative? Is it related to endurance?Give some explanations please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witcher.3197 Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 @Doto.6357 said:In my opinion, adding an icd of around 6-15 seconds (roughly) on immobilise proccing poison via panic strike would be enough to dissuade the constant sword 2 spam while also preserving the strength of the build outside of spamming one ability. This change would also not hurt power s/d too much.Or adjust the trait to apply the poison specifically on pistol 2 instead of any immob in general.I feel like that was the goal, adding poison to pistol which is a condi weapon and has spammable immob on skill 2, but they forgot that sword also had a spammable immob so now nobody plays pistol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saerni.2584 Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 People always say “nerf condi thief” and then fail to realize that:There are multiple condition builds for thief that all have different mechanics and methods. You have to name specific abilities if you want to be understood by the rest of the player base.Individually, none of those mechanics produces a huge spike of conditions.Fighting a condi thief is about understanding what combination of abilities the thief has to successfully hit you with for you to be spiked with conditions.If you don’t use cleanse in your build you aren’t a good baseline for balance against any condition build, regardless of whether it is attached to thief.Ask a thief to help identify issues with your build, gameplay, or issues with specific thief skills/traits. Plenty of us are glad to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephoid.4263 Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 the 'problem' is that a power weapon set is generating so many condis. There are very few abilities a condi thief uses that have a tell because most of the passives will trigger off conditions that can be generated by multiple abilities. Where most classes have specific abilities you can dodge, thief... well you have to avoid everything. Imo, this is fine due to thief natural lack of durability. However, the problem is STILL dagger storm. Long duration invulnerability kind of negates the problems of a class whose weakness is related to durability. It also allows condi thief to stay in combat, procing more condis off passives and letting the condi ticks to progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 DS is not invulnerability, I don't know why this is stated so often. U are still affected by condi's other than slow. Theres more than enough aoe's around these days that can chew a lot off a thief's small hp pool. Plus it's on 3 sec skill on a long CD unless ofcourse u luck out with improv's rng which ur prob not even running in a condi build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoosh.2718 Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 I didnt realise how powerful the Poison stacks were till the other day from Dead eye, just getting marked alone can take you to 50% HP if you've run out of Condi clenses.I did meet one Deadeye who was able to quickly stack up 16 stacks of poison onto you, with other cover conditions which rapidly kills the oposition player.I can not stress this enough, condition damage style play makes pvp boring, dull and not fun. If something is not addressed with condition damage's dominance when it comes to cheese, PvP will lose its already dying appeal . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math.5123 Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 @saerni.2584 said:People always say “nerf condi thief” and then fail to realize that:There are multiple condition builds for thief that all have different mechanics and methods. You have to name specific abilities if you want to be understood by the rest of the player base.Individually, none of those mechanics produces a huge spike of conditions.Fighting a condi thief is about understanding what combination of abilities the thief has to successfully hit you with for you to be spiked with conditions.If you don’t use cleanse in your build you aren’t a good baseline for balance against any condition build, regardless of whether it is attached to thief.Ask a thief to help identify issues with your build, gameplay, or issues with specific thief skills/traits. Plenty of us are glad to help.He's obviously talking about S/D as its the only viable build.No, it's a combination of all things deadly arts, lotus training and the occasional combo finisher in shortbow 4.They have to hit with infiltrator strike from behind a wall. This will immob and apply poison through panic strike, deadly ambition (I think this is the name) venom and lotus training. Throw in a steal while he's immob for some extra condis. This results in 6(?) Different condis and about 12 stacks of poison. They literally just have to hit sword 2, no risk as you can just port back if they dodge.Nothing, except maybe water Weaver and conversion Holo can outcleanse the application. The key to fighting them is making them use initiative on surviving. Hard sticking on them.> @Psycoprophet.8107 said:DS is not invulnerability, I don't know why this is stated so often. U are still affected by condi's other than slow. Theres more than enough aoe's around these days that can chew a lot off a thief's small hp pool. Plus it's on 3 sec skill on a long CD unless ofcourse u luck out with improv's rng which ur prob not even running in a condi build.It's an evade that evades all incoming stacks just cleanse before you use it. The only thing that can effect you is tethers (spellbreaker and dragonhunter) and ward effects (staff Ele, staff guard and hammer guard). So about as close to an invuln as it gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdy.5107 Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 sounds like a D/D or S/D thief smoked him and he cant come up with a counter with his class to beat them. Maybe you should learn thief and what the strong/weak points are in the class. Instead of coming onto the forums and crying about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saerni.2584 Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" S/D is common but not the only viable build. What you described can be stopped by a single major cleanse. Then, because you know they are there and targeting you, use active defensive skills and, as you mentioned, forcing them to spend initiative on defense themselves.You can also kite away from the wall they are teleporting behind from. This limits the range of their return and forces them to pick a different target if they want to keep abusing the LoS advantage from Sword 2.You can also, knowing that they are coming after you, but unable to see you well from behind the wall, lay down traps/large AoE skills because you know they are coming back to you. It’s not that hard to shut this down compared to many other builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:@saerni.2584 said:People always say “nerf condi thief” and then fail to realize that:There are multiple condition builds for thief that all have different mechanics and methods. You have to name specific abilities if you want to be understood by the rest of the player base.Individually, none of those mechanics produces a huge spike of conditions.Fighting a condi thief is about understanding what combination of abilities the thief has to successfully hit you with for you to be spiked with conditions.If you don’t use cleanse in your build you aren’t a good baseline for balance against any condition build, regardless of whether it is attached to thief.Ask a thief to help identify issues with your build, gameplay, or issues with specific thief skills/traits. Plenty of us are glad to help.He's obviously talking about S/D as its the only viable build.No, it's a combination of all things deadly arts, lotus training and the occasional combo finisher in shortbow 4.They have to hit with infiltrator strike from behind a wall. This will immob and apply poison through panic strike, deadly ambition (I think this is the name) venom and lotus training. Throw in a steal while he's immob for some extra condis. This results in 6(?) Different condis and about 12 stacks of poison. They literally just have to hit sword 2, no risk as you can just port back if they dodge.Nothing, except maybe water Weaver and conversion Holo can outcleanse the application. The key to fighting them is making them use initiative on surviving. Hard sticking on them.> @Psycoprophet.8107 said:DS is not invulnerability, I don't know why this is stated so often. U are still affected by condi's other than slow. Theres more than enough aoe's around these days that can chew a lot off a thief's small hp pool. Plus it's on 3 sec skill on a long CD unless ofcourse u luck out with improv's rng which ur prob not even running in a condi build.It's an evade that evades all incoming stacks just cleanse before you use it. The only thing that can effect you is tethers (spellbreaker and dragonhunter) and ward effects (staff Ele, staff guard and hammer guard). So about as close to an invuln as it gets.Any aoe condi effect it, try bs through any other thiefs poison field or scourges condi aoe's or ele fire etc etc all can take 75% of a thiefs health. So no it's not complete invulnerability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephoid.4263 Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 @Psycoprophet.8107 said:@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:@saerni.2584 said:People always say “nerf condi thief” and then fail to realize that:There are multiple condition builds for thief that all have different mechanics and methods. You have to name specific abilities if you want to be understood by the rest of the player base.Individually, none of those mechanics produces a huge spike of conditions.Fighting a condi thief is about understanding what combination of abilities the thief has to successfully hit you with for you to be spiked with conditions.If you don’t use cleanse in your build you aren’t a good baseline for balance against any condition build, regardless of whether it is attached to thief.Ask a thief to help identify issues with your build, gameplay, or issues with specific thief skills/traits. Plenty of us are glad to help.He's obviously talking about S/D as its the only viable build.No, it's a combination of all things deadly arts, lotus training and the occasional combo finisher in shortbow 4.They have to hit with infiltrator strike from behind a wall. This will immob and apply poison through panic strike, deadly ambition (I think this is the name) venom and lotus training. Throw in a steal while he's immob for some extra condis. This results in 6(?) Different condis and about 12 stacks of poison. They literally just have to hit sword 2, no risk as you can just port back if they dodge.Nothing, except maybe water Weaver and conversion Holo can outcleanse the application. The key to fighting them is making them use initiative on surviving. Hard sticking on them.> @Psycoprophet.8107 said:DS is not invulnerability, I don't know why this is stated so often. U are still affected by condi's other than slow. Theres more than enough aoe's around these days that can chew a lot off a thief's small hp pool. Plus it's on 3 sec skill on a long CD unless ofcourse u luck out with improv's rng which ur prob not even running in a condi build.It's an evade that evades all incoming stacks just cleanse before you use it. The only thing that can effect you is tethers (spellbreaker and dragonhunter) and ward effects (staff Ele, staff guard and hammer guard). So about as close to an invuln as it gets.Any aoe condi effect it, try bs through any other thiefs poison field or scourges condi aoe's or ele fire etc etc all can take 75% of a thiefs health. So no it's not complete invulnerability DS evades all incoming hits, including those generated by AoEs. It will evade scourge's shades and other thief's shortbow 4s. As stated, only a tiny number of effects in the game can effect you while in DS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babazhook.6805 Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:@saerni.2584 said:People always say “nerf condi thief” and then fail to realize that:There are multiple condition builds for thief that all have different mechanics and methods. You have to name specific abilities if you want to be understood by the rest of the player base.Individually, none of those mechanics produces a huge spike of conditions.Fighting a condi thief is about understanding what combination of abilities the thief has to successfully hit you with for you to be spiked with conditions.If you don’t use cleanse in your build you aren’t a good baseline for balance against any condition build, regardless of whether it is attached to thief.Ask a thief to help identify issues with your build, gameplay, or issues with specific thief skills/traits. Plenty of us are glad to help.He's obviously talking about S/D as its the only viable build.No, it's a combination of all things deadly arts, lotus training and the occasional combo finisher in shortbow 4.They have to hit with infiltrator strike from behind a wall. This will immob and apply poison through panic strike, deadly ambition (I think this is the name) venom and lotus training. Throw in a steal while he's immob for some extra condis. This results in 6(?) Different condis and about 12 stacks of poison. They literally just have to hit sword 2, no risk as you can just port back if they dodge.Nothing, except maybe water Weaver and conversion Holo can outcleanse the application. The key to fighting them is making them use initiative on surviving. Hard sticking on them.> @Psycoprophet.8107 said:DS is not invulnerability, I don't know why this is stated so often. U are still affected by condi's other than slow. Theres more than enough aoe's around these days that can chew a lot off a thief's small hp pool. Plus it's on 3 sec skill on a long CD unless ofcourse u luck out with improv's rng which ur prob not even running in a condi build.It's an evade that evades all incoming stacks just cleanse before you use it. The only thing that can effect you is tethers (spellbreaker and dragonhunter) and ward effects (staff Ele, staff guard and hammer guard). So about as close to an invuln as it gets.When I am on my own s/p power thief facing your mentioned s/d condition , I am quite capable of flushing away any conditions applied. That Port REMOVES conditions and coupled with other cleanses condi s/d is going to run out of INI and means to apply his poison via an Immob before I run out of cleanses.My own shout warrior using shake it off is more then capable of keeping ahead of those condition stacks. That builds weakness is the ability to engage but it hardly concerned over the conditions from an s/d thief. P/d thief is much more effective against him. P/d thief using shadows embrace and trickster can also keep up with the condition adds from the s/d build.S/d condition is most effective against people that do not trait enough cleanses or that do not kite. The burst opening of conditions you outline is in fact generally only effective against persons with limited cleanses. If you are facing a person with sufficient cleanses he cleanses that burst quite readily and then you are crippled until your next burst ready giving that enemy time to recover health. It generally better to space out condition applications in such a match up and not use them all at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math.5123 Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 @babazhook.6805 said:@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:@saerni.2584 said:People always say “nerf condi thief” and then fail to realize that:There are multiple condition builds for thief that all have different mechanics and methods. You have to name specific abilities if you want to be understood by the rest of the player base.Individually, none of those mechanics produces a huge spike of conditions.Fighting a condi thief is about understanding what combination of abilities the thief has to successfully hit you with for you to be spiked with conditions.If you don’t use cleanse in your build you aren’t a good baseline for balance against any condition build, regardless of whether it is attached to thief.Ask a thief to help identify issues with your build, gameplay, or issues with specific thief skills/traits. Plenty of us are glad to help.He's obviously talking about S/D as its the only viable build.No, it's a combination of all things deadly arts, lotus training and the occasional combo finisher in shortbow 4.They have to hit with infiltrator strike from behind a wall. This will immob and apply poison through panic strike, deadly ambition (I think this is the name) venom and lotus training. Throw in a steal while he's immob for some extra condis. This results in 6(?) Different condis and about 12 stacks of poison. They literally just have to hit sword 2, no risk as you can just port back if they dodge.Nothing, except maybe water Weaver and conversion Holo can outcleanse the application. The key to fighting them is making them use initiative on surviving. Hard sticking on them.> @Psycoprophet.8107 said:DS is not invulnerability, I don't know why this is stated so often. U are still affected by condi's other than slow. Theres more than enough aoe's around these days that can chew a lot off a thief's small hp pool. Plus it's on 3 sec skill on a long CD unless ofcourse u luck out with improv's rng which ur prob not even running in a condi build.It's an evade that evades all incoming stacks just cleanse before you use it. The only thing that can effect you is tethers (spellbreaker and dragonhunter) and ward effects (staff Ele, staff guard and hammer guard). So about as close to an invuln as it gets.When I am on my own s/p power thief facing your mentioned s/d condition , I am quite capable of flushing away any conditions applied. That Port REMOVES conditions and coupled with other cleanses condi s/d is going to run out of INI and means to apply his poison via an Immob before I run out of cleanses.My own shout warrior using shake it off is more then capable of keeping ahead of those condition stacks. That builds weakness is the ability to engage but it hardly concerned over the conditions from an s/d thief. P/d thief is much more effective against him. P/d thief using shadows embrace and trickster can also keep up with the condition adds from the s/d build.S/d condition is most effective against people that do not trait enough cleanses or that do not kite.Yeah but running a shout war will render you useless against everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babazhook.6805 Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 @babazhook.6805 said:@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:@saerni.2584 said:People always say “nerf condi thief” and then fail to realize that:There are multiple condition builds for thief that all have different mechanics and methods. You have to name specific abilities if you want to be understood by the rest of the player base.Individually, none of those mechanics produces a huge spike of conditions.Fighting a condi thief is about understanding what combination of abilities the thief has to successfully hit you with for you to be spiked with conditions.If you don’t use cleanse in your build you aren’t a good baseline for balance against any condition build, regardless of whether it is attached to thief.Ask a thief to help identify issues with your build, gameplay, or issues with specific thief skills/traits. Plenty of us are glad to help.He's obviously talking about S/D as its the only viable build.No, it's a combination of all things deadly arts, lotus training and the occasional combo finisher in shortbow 4.They have to hit with infiltrator strike from behind a wall. This will immob and apply poison through panic strike, deadly ambition (I think this is the name) venom and lotus training. Throw in a steal while he's immob for some extra condis. This results in 6(?) Different condis and about 12 stacks of poison. They literally just have to hit sword 2, no risk as you can just port back if they dodge.Nothing, except maybe water Weaver and conversion Holo can outcleanse the application. The key to fighting them is making them use initiative on surviving. Hard sticking on them.> @Psycoprophet.8107 said:DS is not invulnerability, I don't know why this is stated so often. U are still affected by condi's other than slow. Theres more than enough aoe's around these days that can chew a lot off a thief's small hp pool. Plus it's on 3 sec skill on a long CD unless ofcourse u luck out with improv's rng which ur prob not even running in a condi build.It's an evade that evades all incoming stacks just cleanse before you use it. The only thing that can effect you is tethers (spellbreaker and dragonhunter) and ward effects (staff Ele, staff guard and hammer guard). So about as close to an invuln as it gets.When I am on my own s/p power thief facing your mentioned s/d condition , I am quite capable of flushing away any conditions applied. That Port REMOVES conditions and coupled with other cleanses condi s/d is going to run out of INI and means to apply his poison via an Immob before I run out of cleanses.My own shout warrior using shake it off is more then capable of keeping ahead of those condition stacks. That builds weakness is the ability to engage but it hardly concerned over the conditions from an s/d thief. P/d thief is much more effective against him. P/d thief using shadows embrace and trickster can also keep up with the condition adds from the s/d build.S/d condition is most effective against people that do not trait enough cleanses or that do not kite.@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:@babazhook.6805 said:@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:@saerni.2584 said:People always say “nerf condi thief” and then fail to realize that:There are multiple condition builds for thief that all have different mechanics and methods. You have to name specific abilities if you want to be understood by the rest of the player base.Individually, none of those mechanics produces a huge spike of conditions.Fighting a condi thief is about understanding what combination of abilities the thief has to successfully hit you with for you to be spiked with conditions.If you don’t use cleanse in your build you aren’t a good baseline for balance against any condition build, regardless of whether it is attached to thief.Ask a thief to help identify issues with your build, gameplay, or issues with specific thief skills/traits. Plenty of us are glad to help.He's obviously talking about S/D as its the only viable build.No, it's a combination of all things deadly arts, lotus training and the occasional combo finisher in shortbow 4.They have to hit with infiltrator strike from behind a wall. This will immob and apply poison through panic strike, deadly ambition (I think this is the name) venom and lotus training. Throw in a steal while he's immob for some extra condis. This results in 6(?) Different condis and about 12 stacks of poison. They literally just have to hit sword 2, no risk as you can just port back if they dodge.Nothing, except maybe water Weaver and conversion Holo can outcleanse the application. The key to fighting them is making them use initiative on surviving. Hard sticking on them.> @Psycoprophet.8107 said:DS is not invulnerability, I don't know why this is stated so often. U are still affected by condi's other than slow. Theres more than enough aoe's around these days that can chew a lot off a thief's small hp pool. Plus it's on 3 sec skill on a long CD unless ofcourse u luck out with improv's rng which ur prob not even running in a condi build.It's an evade that evades all incoming stacks just cleanse before you use it. The only thing that can effect you is tethers (spellbreaker and dragonhunter) and ward effects (staff Ele, staff guard and hammer guard). So about as close to an invuln as it gets.When I am on my own s/p power thief facing your mentioned s/d condition , I am quite capable of flushing away any conditions applied. That Port REMOVES conditions and coupled with other cleanses condi s/d is going to run out of INI and means to apply his poison via an Immob before I run out of cleanses.My own shout warrior using shake it off is more then capable of keeping ahead of those condition stacks. That builds weakness is the ability to engage but it hardly concerned over the conditions from an s/d thief. P/d thief is much more effective against him. P/d thief using shadows embrace and trickster can also keep up with the condition adds from the s/d build.S/d condition is most effective against people that do not trait enough cleanses or that do not kite.Yeah but running a shout war will render you useless against everything else.Oh he is not useless at all. He is specced to tank and if you engage at melee will churn out plenty of damage even as he shrugs off your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math.5123 Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 @babazhook.6805 said:@babazhook.6805 said:@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:@saerni.2584 said:People always say “nerf condi thief” and then fail to realize that:There are multiple condition builds for thief that all have different mechanics and methods. You have to name specific abilities if you want to be understood by the rest of the player base.Individually, none of those mechanics produces a huge spike of conditions.Fighting a condi thief is about understanding what combination of abilities the thief has to successfully hit you with for you to be spiked with conditions.If you don’t use cleanse in your build you aren’t a good baseline for balance against any condition build, regardless of whether it is attached to thief.Ask a thief to help identify issues with your build, gameplay, or issues with specific thief skills/traits. Plenty of us are glad to help.He's obviously talking about S/D as its the only viable build.No, it's a combination of all things deadly arts, lotus training and the occasional combo finisher in shortbow 4.They have to hit with infiltrator strike from behind a wall. This will immob and apply poison through panic strike, deadly ambition (I think this is the name) venom and lotus training. Throw in a steal while he's immob for some extra condis. This results in 6(?) Different condis and about 12 stacks of poison. They literally just have to hit sword 2, no risk as you can just port back if they dodge.Nothing, except maybe water Weaver and conversion Holo can outcleanse the application. The key to fighting them is making them use initiative on surviving. Hard sticking on them.> @Psycoprophet.8107 said:DS is not invulnerability, I don't know why this is stated so often. U are still affected by condi's other than slow. Theres more than enough aoe's around these days that can chew a lot off a thief's small hp pool. Plus it's on 3 sec skill on a long CD unless ofcourse u luck out with improv's rng which ur prob not even running in a condi build.It's an evade that evades all incoming stacks just cleanse before you use it. The only thing that can effect you is tethers (spellbreaker and dragonhunter) and ward effects (staff Ele, staff guard and hammer guard). So about as close to an invuln as it gets.When I am on my own s/p power thief facing your mentioned s/d condition , I am quite capable of flushing away any conditions applied. That Port REMOVES conditions and coupled with other cleanses condi s/d is going to run out of INI and means to apply his poison via an Immob before I run out of cleanses.My own shout warrior using shake it off is more then capable of keeping ahead of those condition stacks. That builds weakness is the ability to engage but it hardly concerned over the conditions from an s/d thief. P/d thief is much more effective against him. P/d thief using shadows embrace and trickster can also keep up with the condition adds from the s/d build.S/d condition is most effective against people that do not trait enough cleanses or that do not kite.@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:@babazhook.6805 said:@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:@saerni.2584 said:People always say “nerf condi thief” and then fail to realize that:There are multiple condition builds for thief that all have different mechanics and methods. You have to name specific abilities if you want to be understood by the rest of the player base.Individually, none of those mechanics produces a huge spike of conditions.Fighting a condi thief is about understanding what combination of abilities the thief has to successfully hit you with for you to be spiked with conditions.If you don’t use cleanse in your build you aren’t a good baseline for balance against any condition build, regardless of whether it is attached to thief.Ask a thief to help identify issues with your build, gameplay, or issues with specific thief skills/traits. Plenty of us are glad to help.He's obviously talking about S/D as its the only viable build.No, it's a combination of all things deadly arts, lotus training and the occasional combo finisher in shortbow 4.They have to hit with infiltrator strike from behind a wall. This will immob and apply poison through panic strike, deadly ambition (I think this is the name) venom and lotus training. Throw in a steal while he's immob for some extra condis. This results in 6(?) Different condis and about 12 stacks of poison. They literally just have to hit sword 2, no risk as you can just port back if they dodge.Nothing, except maybe water Weaver and conversion Holo can outcleanse the application. The key to fighting them is making them use initiative on surviving. Hard sticking on them.> @Psycoprophet.8107 said:DS is not invulnerability, I don't know why this is stated so often. U are still affected by condi's other than slow. Theres more than enough aoe's around these days that can chew a lot off a thief's small hp pool. Plus it's on 3 sec skill on a long CD unless ofcourse u luck out with improv's rng which ur prob not even running in a condi build.It's an evade that evades all incoming stacks just cleanse before you use it. The only thing that can effect you is tethers (spellbreaker and dragonhunter) and ward effects (staff Ele, staff guard and hammer guard). So about as close to an invuln as it gets.When I am on my own s/p power thief facing your mentioned s/d condition , I am quite capable of flushing away any conditions applied. That Port REMOVES conditions and coupled with other cleanses condi s/d is going to run out of INI and means to apply his poison via an Immob before I run out of cleanses.My own shout warrior using shake it off is more then capable of keeping ahead of those condition stacks. That builds weakness is the ability to engage but it hardly concerned over the conditions from an s/d thief. P/d thief is much more effective against him. P/d thief using shadows embrace and trickster can also keep up with the condition adds from the s/d build.S/d condition is most effective against people that do not trait enough cleanses or that do not kite.Yeah but running a shout war will render you useless against everything else.Oh he is not useless at all. He is specced to tank and if you engage at melee will churn out plenty of damage even as he shrugs off your own.I rest my case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 @babazhook.6805 said:@babazhook.6805 said:@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:@saerni.2584 said:People always say “nerf condi thief” and then fail to realize that:There are multiple condition builds for thief that all have different mechanics and methods. You have to name specific abilities if you want to be understood by the rest of the player base.Individually, none of those mechanics produces a huge spike of conditions.Fighting a condi thief is about understanding what combination of abilities the thief has to successfully hit you with for you to be spiked with conditions.If you don’t use cleanse in your build you aren’t a good baseline for balance against any condition build, regardless of whether it is attached to thief.Ask a thief to help identify issues with your build, gameplay, or issues with specific thief skills/traits. Plenty of us are glad to help.He's obviously talking about S/D as its the only viable build.No, it's a combination of all things deadly arts, lotus training and the occasional combo finisher in shortbow 4.They have to hit with infiltrator strike from behind a wall. This will immob and apply poison through panic strike, deadly ambition (I think this is the name) venom and lotus training. Throw in a steal while he's immob for some extra condis. This results in 6(?) Different condis and about 12 stacks of poison. They literally just have to hit sword 2, no risk as you can just port back if they dodge.Nothing, except maybe water Weaver and conversion Holo can outcleanse the application. The key to fighting them is making them use initiative on surviving. Hard sticking on them.> @Psycoprophet.8107 said:DS is not invulnerability, I don't know why this is stated so often. U are still affected by condi's other than slow. Theres more than enough aoe's around these days that can chew a lot off a thief's small hp pool. Plus it's on 3 sec skill on a long CD unless ofcourse u luck out with improv's rng which ur prob not even running in a condi build.It's an evade that evades all incoming stacks just cleanse before you use it. The only thing that can effect you is tethers (spellbreaker and dragonhunter) and ward effects (staff Ele, staff guard and hammer guard). So about as close to an invuln as it gets.When I am on my own s/p power thief facing your mentioned s/d condition , I am quite capable of flushing away any conditions applied. That Port REMOVES conditions and coupled with other cleanses condi s/d is going to run out of INI and means to apply his poison via an Immob before I run out of cleanses.My own shout warrior using shake it off is more then capable of keeping ahead of those condition stacks. That builds weakness is the ability to engage but it hardly concerned over the conditions from an s/d thief. P/d thief is much more effective against him. P/d thief using shadows embrace and trickster can also keep up with the condition adds from the s/d build.S/d condition is most effective against people that do not trait enough cleanses or that do not kite.@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:@babazhook.6805 said:@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:@saerni.2584 said:People always say “nerf condi thief” and then fail to realize that:There are multiple condition builds for thief that all have different mechanics and methods. You have to name specific abilities if you want to be understood by the rest of the player base.Individually, none of those mechanics produces a huge spike of conditions.Fighting a condi thief is about understanding what combination of abilities the thief has to successfully hit you with for you to be spiked with conditions.If you don’t use cleanse in your build you aren’t a good baseline for balance against any condition build, regardless of whether it is attached to thief.Ask a thief to help identify issues with your build, gameplay, or issues with specific thief skills/traits. Plenty of us are glad to help.He's obviously talking about S/D as its the only viable build.No, it's a combination of all things deadly arts, lotus training and the occasional combo finisher in shortbow 4.They have to hit with infiltrator strike from behind a wall. This will immob and apply poison through panic strike, deadly ambition (I think this is the name) venom and lotus training. Throw in a steal while he's immob for some extra condis. This results in 6(?) Different condis and about 12 stacks of poison. They literally just have to hit sword 2, no risk as you can just port back if they dodge.Nothing, except maybe water Weaver and conversion Holo can outcleanse the application. The key to fighting them is making them use initiative on surviving. Hard sticking on them.> @Psycoprophet.8107 said:DS is not invulnerability, I don't know why this is stated so often. U are still affected by condi's other than slow. Theres more than enough aoe's around these days that can chew a lot off a thief's small hp pool. Plus it's on 3 sec skill on a long CD unless ofcourse u luck out with improv's rng which ur prob not even running in a condi build.It's an evade that evades all incoming stacks just cleanse before you use it. The only thing that can effect you is tethers (spellbreaker and dragonhunter) and ward effects (staff Ele, staff guard and hammer guard). So about as close to an invuln as it gets.When I am on my own s/p power thief facing your mentioned s/d condition , I am quite capable of flushing away any conditions applied. That Port REMOVES conditions and coupled with other cleanses condi s/d is going to run out of INI and means to apply his poison via an Immob before I run out of cleanses.My own shout warrior using shake it off is more then capable of keeping ahead of those condition stacks. That builds weakness is the ability to engage but it hardly concerned over the conditions from an s/d thief. P/d thief is much more effective against him. P/d thief using shadows embrace and trickster can also keep up with the condition adds from the s/d build.S/d condition is most effective against people that do not trait enough cleanses or that do not kite.Yeah but running a shout war will render you useless against everything else.Oh he is not useless at all. He is specced to tank and if you engage at melee will churn out plenty of damage even as he shrugs off your own.A s/d shrugs off dps from a warrior or do u mean evades it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poledra Val.1490 Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 This build is just a gimmick and it clearly carries terrible players to heights in pvp they have never been in before. It should be nerfed of course its literally one of the top 3 easiest things to use in pvp right now and is obviously effective.Its very counterproductive for a build to carry the player they dont really learn anything bar pressing 2-3 buttons. Once this build is nerfed you will witness an all mighty exodus of a huge percentage of thieves that will have there favorite toy taken away and will likely quit pvp or just move on to the next busted thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 @Poledra Val.1490 said:This build is just a gimmick and it clearly carries terrible players to heights in pvp they have never been in before. It should be nerfed of course its literally one of the top 3 easiest things to use in pvp right now and is obviously effective.Its very counterproductive for a build to carry the player they dont really learn anything bar pressing 2-3 buttons. Once this build is nerfed you will witness an all mighty exodus of a huge percentage of thieves that will have there favorite toy taken away and will likely quit pvp or just move on to the next busted thing.U basically just described every popular espec and it's most popular build lmao. This is gw2 remember? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poledra Val.1490 Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 @Psycoprophet.8107 said:@Poledra Val.1490 said:This build is just a gimmick and it clearly carries terrible players to heights in pvp they have never been in before. It should be nerfed of course its literally one of the top 3 easiest things to use in pvp right now and is obviously effective.Its very counterproductive for a build to carry the player they dont really learn anything bar pressing 2-3 buttons. Once this build is nerfed you will witness an all mighty exodus of a huge percentage of thieves that will have there favorite toy taken away and will likely quit pvp or just move on to the next busted thing.U basically just described every popular espec and it's most popular build lmao. This is gw2 remember?True but the ease of this build to use is honestly new levels of rediculousness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curennos.9307 Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 Remove the sword2 immob, turn it into cripple + blind.Or just give thief the reworks it needs to not have to crutch on a certain set of skills/traits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babazhook.6805 Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 @Psycoprophet.8107 said:@babazhook.6805 said:@babazhook.6805 said:@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:@saerni.2584 said:People always say “nerf condi thief” and then fail to realize that:There are multiple condition builds for thief that all have different mechanics and methods. You have to name specific abilities if you want to be understood by the rest of the player base.Individually, none of those mechanics produces a huge spike of conditions.Fighting a condi thief is about understanding what combination of abilities the thief has to successfully hit you with for you to be spiked with conditions.If you don’t use cleanse in your build you aren’t a good baseline for balance against any condition build, regardless of whether it is attached to thief.Ask a thief to help identify issues with your build, gameplay, or issues with specific thief skills/traits. Plenty of us are glad to help.He's obviously talking about S/D as its the only viable build.No, it's a combination of all things deadly arts, lotus training and the occasional combo finisher in shortbow 4.They have to hit with infiltrator strike from behind a wall. This will immob and apply poison through panic strike, deadly ambition (I think this is the name) venom and lotus training. Throw in a steal while he's immob for some extra condis. This results in 6(?) Different condis and about 12 stacks of poison. They literally just have to hit sword 2, no risk as you can just port back if they dodge.Nothing, except maybe water Weaver and conversion Holo can outcleanse the application. The key to fighting them is making them use initiative on surviving. Hard sticking on them.> @Psycoprophet.8107 said:DS is not invulnerability, I don't know why this is stated so often. U are still affected by condi's other than slow. Theres more than enough aoe's around these days that can chew a lot off a thief's small hp pool. Plus it's on 3 sec skill on a long CD unless ofcourse u luck out with improv's rng which ur prob not even running in a condi build.It's an evade that evades all incoming stacks just cleanse before you use it. The only thing that can effect you is tethers (spellbreaker and dragonhunter) and ward effects (staff Ele, staff guard and hammer guard). So about as close to an invuln as it gets.When I am on my own s/p power thief facing your mentioned s/d condition , I am quite capable of flushing away any conditions applied. That Port REMOVES conditions and coupled with other cleanses condi s/d is going to run out of INI and means to apply his poison via an Immob before I run out of cleanses.My own shout warrior using shake it off is more then capable of keeping ahead of those condition stacks. That builds weakness is the ability to engage but it hardly concerned over the conditions from an s/d thief. P/d thief is much more effective against him. P/d thief using shadows embrace and trickster can also keep up with the condition adds from the s/d build.S/d condition is most effective against people that do not trait enough cleanses or that do not kite.@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:@babazhook.6805 said:@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:@saerni.2584 said:People always say “nerf condi thief” and then fail to realize that:There are multiple condition builds for thief that all have different mechanics and methods. You have to name specific abilities if you want to be understood by the rest of the player base.Individually, none of those mechanics produces a huge spike of conditions.Fighting a condi thief is about understanding what combination of abilities the thief has to successfully hit you with for you to be spiked with conditions.If you don’t use cleanse in your build you aren’t a good baseline for balance against any condition build, regardless of whether it is attached to thief.Ask a thief to help identify issues with your build, gameplay, or issues with specific thief skills/traits. Plenty of us are glad to help.He's obviously talking about S/D as its the only viable build.No, it's a combination of all things deadly arts, lotus training and the occasional combo finisher in shortbow 4.They have to hit with infiltrator strike from behind a wall. This will immob and apply poison through panic strike, deadly ambition (I think this is the name) venom and lotus training. Throw in a steal while he's immob for some extra condis. This results in 6(?) Different condis and about 12 stacks of poison. They literally just have to hit sword 2, no risk as you can just port back if they dodge.Nothing, except maybe water Weaver and conversion Holo can outcleanse the application. The key to fighting them is making them use initiative on surviving. Hard sticking on them.> @Psycoprophet.8107 said:DS is not invulnerability, I don't know why this is stated so often. U are still affected by condi's other than slow. Theres more than enough aoe's around these days that can chew a lot off a thief's small hp pool. Plus it's on 3 sec skill on a long CD unless ofcourse u luck out with improv's rng which ur prob not even running in a condi build.It's an evade that evades all incoming stacks just cleanse before you use it. The only thing that can effect you is tethers (spellbreaker and dragonhunter) and ward effects (staff Ele, staff guard and hammer guard). So about as close to an invuln as it gets.When I am on my own s/p power thief facing your mentioned s/d condition , I am quite capable of flushing away any conditions applied. That Port REMOVES conditions and coupled with other cleanses condi s/d is going to run out of INI and means to apply his poison via an Immob before I run out of cleanses.My own shout warrior using shake it off is more then capable of keeping ahead of those condition stacks. That builds weakness is the ability to engage but it hardly concerned over the conditions from an s/d thief. P/d thief is much more effective against him. P/d thief using shadows embrace and trickster can also keep up with the condition adds from the s/d build.S/d condition is most effective against people that do not trait enough cleanses or that do not kite.Yeah but running a shout war will render you useless against everything else.Oh he is not useless at all. He is specced to tank and if you engage at melee will churn out plenty of damage even as he shrugs off your own.A s/d shrugs off dps from a warrior or do u mean evades it?No, the warrior I am speaking of will shrug off damage the enemy applies at melee range. In order to fight him the enemy has to kite and use range.Trying to exchange blows at melee they end up dead more often then not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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