Thieves still a hated class?

[Legatus.3608]

@Crinn.7864 said:

@"Legatus.3608" said:If it was overperforming it would be viable to have 2.While your assumption is logical, it's not actually correct because of how pvp actually works.

A single thief has the mobility and killing power to get all the +1s, decaps, and secondary objective steals by himself. Having two thieves will just result in the thieves getting in each other way since both thieves will be competing against each other for +1s. In other words there is extremely brutal diminishing returns for each thief you add to your team. This isn't just a thief thing either as it is always suboptimal to take multiples of any class, the only exception to the rule being those rare cases where you have a build that can fill multiple roles effectively.

Except that those "rare cases" aren't rare at all. OP classes like necro and mesmer were always viable to have an extra if not several (ppl winning ATs with 4 mesmer). Usually two of any class is acceptable in a typical plat game except for thief.

[DeceiverX.8361]

You can't dodge when you're immobilized via IS. That's what makes the precast combo strong especially for +1 (FS -> IS -> LS -> IR -> Repeat). You either have a cleanse prepped for every cast and you can't chase or you'll lose point capture control, or you're strictly going to get hit by it, lose boons, and so on.

The damage coefficient hasn't changed over time as far as I'm aware; the only additions were the 20% damage buff on a target with no boons and the 5% increase to all dual skills in the 2015 patch that removed the corresponding trait. The AA was also quite weak prior to HoT before they sped the animation up by nearly 40%.

[babazhook.6805]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Highlie.7641 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Legatus.3608 said:

@"saerni.2584" said:The patch won’t make thief unviable. A shave in spike damage was inevitable with a reduction in sustain.

You have to judge the patch holistically. There’s too many nerfs to other classes for us to complain.

Well the thing is they completely destroyed sd as a spec and dp, which isn't even meta right now, also took some solid targeted nerfs.

This is on a class where you queue for pvp, get in and first thing you see is "two thief? Switch or we lose"

When I can get into a game and not hear that, thief will deserve nerfs

Until then idgaf how much these forums cry, the class didn't need nerfs

What are you talking about lol. The patch is going to have very little effect on thief's potency in the meta right now. It's just not going to be as easy to spam 3 on S/D core and kill people or nuke things with the AA chain on MH dagger. The current meta S/D is generally easymode.

Long-term, it might have some adverse consequences when things change but as of now S/D is absolutely over-performing for how safe it is. D/P isn't very good because of FB, Scourge, and Holo just being outright overpowered.

Them adding the ability to double cast flanking strike was a horrible mistake. they should of kept the last version. not only was it more fluid, but it also had counterplay. since the "punish" frames never moved.

They also need to add back some of the "Tricks" they removed. s/d became boring when they turned it into FS steal LS repeat. it used to be about buzzing around and confusing the kitten out of your enemy.

Not really. Precasting FS to acquire LS without needing to hit anything is more broken than the current build; it was effectively the same thing, just that it rotated a gap close + immob into an unblockable boon rip with a pretty high damage coefficient, and then teleported to safety. This made S/D safer and require less skill to apply pressure in general.

I'd rather have just seen FS's damage get reduced pretty substantially to like a .4 coefficient instead of the .8 it currently has. It'd cut 3spam in its full chain down by around 20% on the rotation but would keep LS as the hard-hitting ability it pretty much needs to be.

A lot of the problem with the design of the thief is that there's little room to really make kit identities better and more cohesive around a style of play. D/D, S/D, and P/D are all wildly different kits with very different strategies yet share OH dagger. On the other hand, you have S/D and S/P being very different, D/P and D/D being very different, and P/P and P/D also being very different, so it's not like this is something that can be reworked with just some MH tweaks, either.

To really flesh out the thief's skills better to create better kit identities and make the skills have more breadth of purpose to allow for "tricky" things without making the class OP, I think skills 2, 3, and 4 should all be dual skills. But that's a huge rework and I know damned well ANet would never put forth those kinds of resources.

Really what is needed to flesh out the thief is another one handed weapon that can be used as main or off hand. We have enough two handed weapons which, when added , do nothing to change the dynamics of existing sets. Get a mace in there as example , usuable either hand , and the number of builds increases significantly. You can then better granulate what each weapon add is useful for rather then trying to make each offer a bit of everything.

[Monarch.7241]

U think you can play gw2 ? OK, perform a pentakill with shortbow/sword pistol core thief without getting hit by any of the op classess. One of the thiefs did that today in 5 games in a row, try doing that shit. The real definition of broken a.k.a. scourgemourne doesn't stop the thief to perform kills too.

I dont know who came up with the plan to erase the trap spells from the thief tree, but I dislike the new thief more than the old one. This poisons reforging is lame too. Its so much nerfed now thats not even funny to make jokes with it. The thief are quite forced to play oneshot stuff in order to stay relevant to the fights, and not to face the enemies side by side, im not commenting here the daredevil, im commenting the core thief trees. Not everybody likes to play expansion builds, too, why the core guardian healer got nerfed ? So FIREBRAND can shine ? The same is happening with other builds too...For example everybody likes the Reaper build, but very few play it with the shouts like I do, why the shouts of the class are getting so heavily bashed ? 113 healing per cast with trait improve, what is this ? Thats not okay...I also believe that his shouts must be made passive... and definately reforged to be stronger, not weaker. if I wanna play power build i will just go dragonhunter, power reaper looks lame.

[Alatar.7364]

@Monarch.7241 said:

Quality necroing, 1.5 years, I think we might have a new necro record.

[pureskullz.7536]

Thief doesn't lack in any category yet it still does get blamed however, I think after so much of blame being passed forth most thief players think they are nerfed for no reason at this point.

[Thornwolf.9721]

@"BobbyT.7192" said:Been awhile since I seen a lot of QQ posts or comments about how thieves are so over powered, but I still lately see it here and there.I would like to think it still people that don’t know how to deal with them, but wondering is it actually the general opinion here in the community.

I hate thieves, I just don't want them fully gutted. And I know any attempt of "Fixing them" will kill the class because of heavy handed balance decisions but know that they are the class I eye-roll the most at because they are just not fun to fight at all. (even messmers are more fun to tango with than thieves right now, and thats not saying much because messmers are obnoxious.)

[Engal.6359]

Lol always. QQ never stops for some classes (RIP chrono)

[Carnifex.3275]

I hate thieves, I just don't want them fully gutted. And I know any attempt of "Fixing them" will kill the class because of heavy handed balance decisions but know that they are the class I eye-roll the most at because they are just not fun to fight at all. (even messmers are more fun to tango with than thieves right now, and thats not saying much because messmers are obnoxious.)

It's alright. Ppl that hate thieves can be happy. We dismantled our guild like 1 year ago and quitted the game. I count about 50-60 thieves that quitted and carried onto another games. And that was our small guild only. What u think how many thief players in total in gw2 quitted the game over the past 1-2 years? Should be quite a large amount. Mission accomplished. Thief erased. I guess... it's for the better? Anet wants to loose their playerbase for some reason.

[Monarch.7241]

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@"BobbyT.7192" said:Been awhile since I seen a lot of QQ posts or comments about how thieves are so over powered, but I still lately see it here and there.I would like to think it still people that don’t know how to deal with them, but wondering is it actually the general opinion here in the community.

I hate thieves, I just don't want them fully gutted. And I know any attempt of "Fixing them" will kill the class because of heavy handed balance decisions but know that they are the class I eye-roll the most at because they are just not fun to fight at all. (even messmers are more fun to tango with than thieves right now, and thats not saying much because messmers are obnoxious.)

Go Play World of Warcraft to see what a true thief looks like. You will hate it even more then. Expecially 3.0.8 was better known as the ambush hunters patch, because there was so many rogues on ambush mastery that you dont even wanna que battlegrounds at all. 40-45 yards ambushes, 17k crits on 19k health, thats unfun to play against, and it was still counterable.The thief backlash here feels like someone is nerfing the thief class here because he ate so much slapping in wow and other mmorpg by this very same class, that he have nightmares when he even thinks about it. Its that much unrealistic nerfing. Also, core guardian nerfs on shouts and reaper shouts are total mystery to me. Im pretty sure if I put my hands into the dirt of the other professions I will find more amusing changes.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@"Tabootrinket.2631" said:Thief life in a nutshell :

-other professions : " Thieves are OP nerf them the hell up "

• thief : " Oh ok, can I get in your team then ? "
• other professions : " What ? Hell no thieves are useless "
• thief : " wait what ? Yeah so can we get some improvements to be more useful to the team ? "
• other professions : " What ? No thieves are more than fine as they are. "
• thief : "Huuh... so why don't you accept me in your team ? "
• other professions : "thieves are useless "

Still valid.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Honestly some mmo's dev should listen to their playerbase when it comes to balance.Unfortunately this mmo in most cases is not.That's why we've got warriors,paladin and other high sustain designed archetypes bursting like or better than the rogue archetypes among other issues.Gw2 players for the most part think that's fine so I say to those that still play this vids pvp modes have at er lol

[Legatus Rein.6951]

I haven't met a single game where assassin/stealth/camper classes aren't hated.It is a troll's piece of work. Your kit is designed to ruin everyone's experience while boosting your own.If you can't handle them, join them. Or do as I do and laugh at yourself whenever you get stomped.Just try to stay healthy lol

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Legatus Rein.6951 said:I haven't met a single game where assassin/stealth/camper classes aren't hated.It is a troll's piece of work. Your kit is designed to ruin everyone's experience while boosting your own.If you can't handle them, join them. Or do as I do and laugh at yourself whenever you get stomped.Just try to stay healthy lol

This man gets it.If the classes played out any different they wouldn't be worthy of the rogue/assassin name.

[thepenmonster.3621]

@"BobbyT.7192" said:wondering is it actually the general opinion here in the community.

The forums exist as a place for PvP/WvW to complain in so what you read will always be some variation on, "Someone 's rock always beats my scissors. Please nerf."

[rowdy.5107]

If you crybabies want thief nerfed... ok great! you want stealth, shadowstep and evasion taken down... awesome! to balance it you need to buff up something. more hp? bigger tank? watch what you ask for... I don't think you cry babies want a 27k+ hp 3000 toughness thief standing in your face with the type of damage they can dish out.there is a reason why thief has the lowest hp pool.. no toughness.. little to no stability and below average healing. stealth, evasion and shadowsteps ARE the thiefs tank. Either learn to fight them or go sit in the corner and cry about it in the forums... one of these options can be helpful to your playskill. can you guess which one?

[itspomf.9523]

@Legatus.3608 said:All of you thief mains out there, just accept that the world hates us and roll a mesmer. Mesmer is, mechanically, the next closest thing to a thief. It fills the same role, but better, and unlike thief which is generally a class filled with people trying to make the best of a kitten class, mesmer actually is op pretty much every single patch.

I'll tell you one thing... people may whine about thief all day long, but after this patch when there aren't any good thief builds left, and every single thief switches to mesmer, they're going to wish they hadn't kitten so much about a kitten thief.

And yet the entirety of the mesmer board is people bemoaning how awful it is and how ANet has nerfed it into the ground ...

[Burnfall.9573]

Since Thief Profession design and creation was introduced to guild wars 2, it was its also the sudden death of the spirit of Guild Wars

Thief Profession design and its creation poisoned every beautiful life of the world of Guild Wars. Its Toxic conditions influenced also spread to all other professions...forcing them to be Toxic as well

Till this day, Thief Profession continues to be excused, defended and continue to go severely unpunished for its toxic atrocity in the name of Guild Wars

Until Anet completely remove this Toxic Profession all that Guild Wars stood for will always remain lost forever

Thief Profession Must Be Eradicated So The Spirit Of Guild Wars To Live Again

-side note-

Far too many are requesting Cantha to return to guild wars 2. Assassin Profession belong in the world of Guild Wars

NOT THIEF PROFESSION!!

[kash.9213]

@Burnfall.9573 said:Since Thief Profession design and creation was introduced to guild wars 2, it was its also the sudden death of the spirit of Guild Wars

Thief Profession design and its creation poisoned every beautiful life of the world of Guild Wars. Its Toxic conditions influenced also spread to all other professions...forcing them to be Toxic as well

Till this day, Thief Profession continues to be excused, defended and continue to go severely unpunished for its toxic atrocity in the name of Guild Wars

Until Anet completely remove this Toxic Profession all that Guild Wars stood for will always remain lost forever

Thief Profession Must Be Eradicated So The Spirit Of Guild Wars To Live Again

-side note-

Far too many are requesting Cantha to return to guild wars 2. Assassin Profession belong in the world of Guild Wars

NOT THIEF PROFESSION!!

Congrats on sticking with your bit for so long. I'm still not sure if you're joking or not but your vocabulary is really coming along, proud of you champ.