For Whatever It’s Worth

[Adry.7512]

Hey just wanted to leave a quick post for any developer that may come around to seeing it. This game is a mess. Not in a mean way....what I mean is that it’s an actual mess. It’s a clutter of undirected content. People a lot of times play content for the rewards. This is from years of playing and that statement is not up for debate. People race through content and don’t even look at what’s going on. This is also because the game is set up that way. All the devs did throughout the years was throw content with no direction and ended up never tying it all in. How do you tie PvP to pve to fractals to wvw to raids to strike missions to etc etc etc. I think the only thing that makes sense is the dungeons but that’s because it’s more of a core GW2 content that was intentionally meant to mix perfectly with the lore. Everything else is just bits and bits of lore that aren’t tied it at all. There are too many loose ends and very little links between these categories. Nothing makes sense, and all that was created was a headache and a disaster for anyone who dares try and guide this game in a logical direction. I am sure there are little things that can be done to improve this. For example, for the millionth time, make a lot of this content solo-able. Some people don’t like to race through content, they like to take their time, listen to lore, but it’s hard when everyone rages to finish the content. A lot of people like that single player feeling, while having the option to play with more people. Some of this content needs to be properly monetized....skins CANT be your ONLY CONSISTENT source of income. It just can’t....doesn’t work. Maybe WVW can impact the economy in some way, or give the server big buffs....SOMETHING that makes sense. Doesn’t have to be economy or buffs, just an idea. SPVP is finally getting a smaller scale option. Let’s be honest SPVP was a wannabe esport that got pushed and pushed and pushed to be this big esport thing even way after it failed it’s purpose. But instead of adapting to this and adding more content, it stayed frozen in time years after its failure. Sigh what’s the point. I think the previous CEO did the best thing he could and that was leave the throne. It was the best he could do for the game to give it a chance to survive. Let’s be adults here, I am not bashing the previous CEO nor any developers, I am just having a grown up conversation here and I expect this post to be treated with a sense of seriousness. I wish this game the best. It’s a game that should have outlasted the ever changing gaming treadmill, but due to some really poor decisions in content, delivery, monetization, and so on....I don’t know how long it will actually last. I feel bad for the new CEO, and I am sure he knows the mess he took up. Let’s hope he can put in his ideas to not add more clutter and undirected content, but to tie everything in and stabilize this game once and for all. Good luck!

[Blockhead Magee.3092]

I get it, the structure of the OP's post was an allegory to how they perceive the game.

"This is from years of playing and that statement is not up for debate" An interesting conclusion based on a subjective observation. And as an observation, arguments and theories should be sound enough to stand up for debate.

[Cyninja.2954]

A paragraph is a series of related sentences developing a central idea, called the topic. Try to think about paragraphs in terms of thematic unity: a paragraph is a sentence or a group of sentences that supports one central, unified idea. Paragraphs add one idea at a time to your broader argument.

• https://advice.writing.utoronto.ca/planning/paragraphs/

You want people to lead a serious and grown up conversation while, maybe start with the basics?: put in the base effort of organizing and structuring the thoughts you are trying to discuss/convey.

Your half page essay is suffering the exact things you are complaining the developers lack: it's a mess.

[Adry.7512]

@"Blockhead Magee.3092" said:I get it, the structure of the OP's post was an allegory to how they perceive the game.

"This is from years of playing and that statement is not up for debate" Your conclusion is wrong, this is from decades of arguing.

You’re implying that the majority of players don’t speed through content? Players speeding through GW2 content is a common issue with the game. Many content developers for GW2, one in particular who is highly knowledgeable on the game, states that player speed through content. I have been playing since vanilla....and all I have ever seen is players speeding through content. Btw I’m not a noob, I got several legendarios and other items that I got from hours and hours of gameplay. And considering all those hours, all I have ever seen is players speeding through content. To the point where I HAVE to go to YouTube content developers for lore and info OUTSIDE of personal story.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Adry.7512 said:

@"Blockhead Magee.3092" said:I get it, the structure of the OP's post was an allegory to how they perceive the game.

"This is from years of playing and that statement is not up for debate" Your conclusion is wrong, this is from decades of arguing.

You’re implying that the majority of players don’t speed through content? Players speeding through GW2 content is a common issue with the game. Many content developers for GW2, one in particular who is highly knowledgeable on the game, states that player speed through content. I have been playing since vanilla....and all I have ever seen is players speeding through content. Btw I’m not a noob, I got several legendarios and other items that I got from hours and hours of gameplay. And considering all those hours, all I have ever seen is players speeding through content. To the point where I HAVE to go to YouTube content developers for lore and info OUTSIDE of personal story.

No:

allegorynounnoun: allegory; plural noun: allegories

a story, poem, or picture that can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, typically a moral or political one.

He's saying your essay is structured in just the same messy way you are describing the development of GW2 and as such, you are trying to prove your point by exposing the reader to such a mess that they understand your main point you are making about the game.

[Blockhead Magee.3092]

I'm not implying anything. I'm pointing out that you have voiced and opinion and then said its not up for debate. That's what authoritarians do - it has nothing to do with being right or wrong.

[Danikat.8537]

Wait...because other people rush through the story you have to watch Youtube videos (made by other players) to get lore info? How does that make sense?

If the problem is that you're feeling pressured to keep up with the people who want to brag about doing an entire LS episode in 20 minutes the solution is simply to ignore them and take it at your own pace so you can follow the story. And if it's not bothering you then what's the problem?

[Adry.7512]

@"Cyninja.2954" said:

A paragraph is a series of related sentences developing a central idea, called the topic. Try to think about paragraphs in terms of thematic unity: a paragraph is a sentence or a group of sentences that supports one central, unified idea. Paragraphs add one idea at a time to your broader argument.

• https://advice.writing.utoronto.ca/planning/paragraphs/

You want people to lead a serious and grown up conversation while, maybe start with the basics?: put in the base effort of organizing and structuring the thoughts you are trying to discuss/convey.

Your half page essay is suffering the exact things you are complaining the developers lack: it's a mess.

It’s a post on a game forum. I understand your criticism but it’s a bit much. I am not making this post to help a dev or organize ideas. I would the the 10millionth person to do this and see nothing. This was just a rant, where I am giving the new developers my best wishes and I truly hope they can fix the mess they were given. Nothing more, it’s not meant to be anything more.

[Adry.7512]

@Blockhead Magee.3092 said:I'm not implying anything. I'm pointing out that you have voiced and opinion and then said its not up for debate. That's what authoritarians do - it has nothing to do with being right or wrong.

An, my apologies.

[Adry.7512]

@Danikat.8537 said:Wait...because other people rush through the story you have to watch Youtube videos (made by other players) to get lore info? How does that make sense?

If the problem is that you're feeling pressured to keep up with the people who want to brag about doing an entire LS episode in 20 minutes the solution is simply to ignore them and take it at your own pace so you can follow the story. And if it's not bothering you then what's the problem?

Outside of LS/personal story.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Adry.7512 said:

@"Cyninja.2954" said:

A paragraph is a series of related sentences developing a central idea, called the topic. Try to think about paragraphs in terms of thematic unity: a paragraph is a sentence or a group of sentences that supports one central, unified idea. Paragraphs add one idea at a time to your broader argument.

• https://advice.writing.utoronto.ca/planning/paragraphs/

You want people to lead a serious and grown up conversation while, maybe start with the basics?: put in the base effort of organizing and structuring the thoughts you are trying to discuss/convey.

Your half page essay is suffering the exact things you are complaining the developers lack: it's a mess.

It’s a post on a game forum. I understand your criticism but it’s a bit much. I am not making this post to help a dev or organize ideas. I would the the 10millionth person to do this and see nothing. This was just a rant, where I am giving the new developers my best wishes and I truly hope they can fix the mess they were given. Nothing more, it’s not meant to be anything more.

I will summarize what you just said, since you might not have realized what it was:

Please take my opinion as serious thought while I personally have neither the desire to be productive (at least you are open enough about this being a rant), nor am willing to put in a certain basic amount of effort, but everybody else should because my word is of value.

You don't structure ideas to give others ideas. You structure them to give your own ideas shape, order and clarity, so others can properly understand and debate them. If your effort is 0, don't expect others to put in a lot more effort.

[Adry.7512]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Adry.7512 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

A paragraph is a series of related sentences developing a central idea, called the topic. Try to think about paragraphs in terms of thematic unity: a paragraph is a sentence or a group of sentences that supports one central, unified idea. Paragraphs add one idea at a time to your broader argument.

• https://advice.writing.utoronto.ca/planning/paragraphs/

You want people to lead a serious and grown up conversation while, maybe start with the basics?: put in the base effort of organizing and structuring the thoughts you are trying to discuss/convey.

Your half page essay is suffering the exact things you are complaining the developers lack: it's a mess.

It’s a post on a game forum. I understand your criticism but it’s a bit much. I am not making this post to help a dev or organize ideas. I would the the 10millionth person to do this and see nothing. This was just a rant, where I am giving the new developers my best wishes and I truly hope they can fix the mess they were given. Nothing more, it’s not meant to be anything more.

I will summarize what you just said, since you might not have realized what it was:

Please take my opinion a serious thought while I personally have neither the desire to be productive (at least you are open enough about this being a rant), nor am willing to put in a certain basic amount of effort, but everybody else should do more.

You don't structure ideas to give others ideas. You structure them to give your own ideas shape, order and clarity, so others can properly understand and debate them. If your effort is 0, don't expect others to put in a lot more effort.

Why should anyone do more? You mean the devs that took the job and responsibility? Yes....? And yes it’s just a rant wishing the new big guys the best. When you have a big job with a lot of responsibilities, sometimes it’s nice to see other people understand the load of things you have on your plate.

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

@Adry.7512 said:

Why should anyone do more? You mean the devs that took the job and responsibility? Yes....? And yes it’s just a rant wishing the new big guys the best. When you have a big job with a lot of responsibilities, sometimes it’s nice to see other people understand the load of things you have on your plate.

Interesting concept, by the way, wishing people well in the form of a rant.

But no, I think he also means us other Forum readers and posters. People tend to skip big blocks of text, but prefer structured and ordered text because it gives more clarity to the writer's point of view. And it also makes it easier to respond to.

That said, why should PvP be tied in to PvE? Or why should WvW, for that matter? They're different game modes. Skills don't even work the same way in PvE and PvP/WvW. They're split from each other. Keeping them separate from PvE is completely in line with the intentions of those game modes.

Fyi, Fractals, Raids and Strike Missions are all PvE so don't need to be mentioned separately. And if you think those 3 have no connections to the story in PvE (Raids and Strike Missions) or the history of Tyria (Fractals) than you haven't been paying attention to the story in those instances. Which might also explain why you feel GW2 is such a disjointed game.

[kharmin.7683]

You could have just said that instead of ranting.

[Diak Atoli.2085]

@TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

@Adry.7512 said:

Why should anyone do more? You mean the devs that took the job and responsibility? Yes....? And yes it’s just a rant wishing the new big guys the best. When you have a big job with a lot of responsibilities, sometimes it’s nice to see other people understand the load of things you have on your plate.

Interesting concept, by the way, wishing people well in the form of a rant.

But no, I think he also means us other Forum readers and posters. People tend to skip big blocks of text, but prefer structured and ordered text because it gives more clarity to the writer's point of view. And it also makes it easier to respond to.

That said, why should PvP be tied in to PvE? Or why should WvW, for that matter? They're different game modes. Skills don't even work the same way in PvE and PvP/WvW. They're split from each other. Keeping them separate from PvE is completely in line with the intentions of those game modes.

Fyi, Fractals, Raids and Strike Missions are all PvE so don't need to be mentioned separately. And if you think those 3 have no connections to the story in PvE (Raids and Strike Missions) or the history of Tyria (Fractals) than you haven't been paying attention to the story in those instances. Which might also explain why you feel GW2 is such a disjointed game.

To be fair, after six years I'm still trying to figure out what Cliffside has to with anything in GW2...

[Calvsie.3675]

@Diak Atoli.2085 said:

@TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

@Adry.7512 said:

Why should anyone do more? You mean the devs that took the job and responsibility? Yes....? And yes it’s just a rant wishing the new big guys the best. When you have a big job with a lot of responsibilities, sometimes it’s nice to see other people understand the load of things you have on your plate.

Interesting concept, by the way, wishing people well in the form of a rant.

But no, I think he also means us other Forum readers and posters. People tend to skip big blocks of text, but prefer structured and ordered text because it gives more clarity to the writer's point of view. And it also makes it easier to respond to.

That said, why should PvP be tied in to PvE? Or why should WvW, for that matter? They're different game modes. Skills don't even work the same way in PvE and PvP/WvW. They're split from each other. Keeping them separate from PvE is completely in line with the intentions of those game modes.

Fyi, Fractals, Raids and Strike Missions are all PvE so don't need to be mentioned separately. And if you think those 3 have no connections to the story in PvE (Raids and Strike Missions) or the history of Tyria (Fractals) than you haven't been paying attention to the story in those instances. Which might also explain why you feel GW2 is such a disjointed game.

To be fair, after six years I'm still trying to figure out what Cliffside has to with

anything

in GW2...

Yeah... Cliffside always felt like a plot hook they left dangling for something they wanted to do but never actually did.

[Etria.3642]

I always thought the guy released was the fellow that appears randomly and kicks off the quest line that culminates in the meta that awards the mystic coin.

[Adry.7512]

@TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

@Adry.7512 said:

Why should anyone do more? You mean the devs that took the job and responsibility? Yes....? And yes it’s just a rant wishing the new big guys the best. When you have a big job with a lot of responsibilities, sometimes it’s nice to see other people understand the load of things you have on your plate.

Interesting concept, by the way, wishing people well in the form of a rant.

But no, I think he also means us other Forum readers and posters. People tend to skip big blocks of text, but prefer structured and ordered text because it gives more clarity to the writer's point of view. And it also makes it easier to respond to.

That said, why should PvP be tied in to PvE? Or why should WvW, for that matter? They're different game modes. Skills don't even work the same way in PvE and PvP/WvW. They're split from each other. Keeping them separate from PvE is completely in line with the intentions of those game modes.

Fyi, Fractals, Raids and Strike Missions are all PvE so don't need to be mentioned separately. And if you think those 3 have no connections to the story in PvE (Raids and Strike Missions) or the history of Tyria (Fractals) than you haven't been paying attention to the story in those instances. Which might also explain why you feel GW2 is such a disjointed game.

No no no, I understand what you mean. And yes what you’re saying is valid, but it’s still not tied in together. Fractals don’t really give a story.....at all. It gives events and then for the most part you have to look it up to even know what’s agtually going on. Look I see what you’re saying, but you can’t devalue what I’m saying. The fake is a mess and there is no clear direction with all of this content and no direction where to take it. That’s why it’s not linked together. It doesn’t do a good job in guiding the player through a vast lore. It’s bits and pieces. All of which are stated in my thread, you’re just assuming I’m stating this. And while what you’re saying it’s true, me stating that there is no relation is not true, and that’s where you’re wrong.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

I don't understand how other people play affect the OP. If they didn't 'rush' through content (and personally, I don't; haven't finished many maps/episodes, collections, etc.) would that change the lore somehow? Would it suddenly appear?

Also, if this is a post supporting and encouraging Mike Z., I'd hate to see the OP being unsupportive. :open_mouth:

[Etria.3642]

So I reread the thread and I think the OP wants a railroad tracks sort of game, where everything follows neatly together and GW2 is NOT that. It isn't truly a sandbox either, it's more like a zoo. There is a train(story specific questline) that you can take if you want to, but there is really nothing stopping you from walking to the area where the birds are free to fly about(open world pve), skipping the aquarium(pvp), and spending most of your time watching the tigers(wvw). Or you can do a bit of everything, or buy a guidebook and meticulously visit every cage(map completion, achievements).

[Zaklex.6308]

@Adry.7512 said:

@"Cyninja.2954" said:

A paragraph is a series of related sentences developing a central idea, called the topic. Try to think about paragraphs in terms of thematic unity: a paragraph is a sentence or a group of sentences that supports one central, unified idea. Paragraphs add one idea at a time to your broader argument.

• https://advice.writing.utoronto.ca/planning/paragraphs/

You want people to lead a serious and grown up conversation while, maybe start with the basics?: put in the base effort of organizing and structuring the thoughts you are trying to discuss/convey.

Your half page essay is suffering the exact things you are complaining the developers lack: it's a mess.

It’s a post on a game forum. I understand your criticism but it’s a bit much. I am not making this post to help a dev or organize ideas. I would the the 10millionth person to do this and see nothing. This was just a rant, where I am giving the new developers my best wishes and I truly hope they can fix the mess they were given. Nothing more, it’s not meant to be anything more.

Let me fix this for you before the devs have to waste their time on nothing at all. You say that WvW isn't tied into PvE, have you completely ignored the Mist criers in each of the racial cities imploring players to join the Mist War(aka WvW), there's your tie in for that. PvP isn't supposed to be tied into anything, it's just a component of the game, unlike the first one where we had the Hall of Heroes. Most of the game is solo content, with the exception of certain events and a few maps, the rest can be done entirely solo at one's own pace. Lore, with the exception of the Raid lore is abundant in PvE if you want to look for it, even though it's not that hard to find. As for Fractals, they're captured moments in time that are being studied by an Asura, and they have their own little story or so I'm told, but not solo content nor designed to be. Strikes fall somewhere in between Dungeons/Fractals and Raids, with the primary purpose to be a lead into doing the Raids in this game(whether that's going to be successful or not will be determined in the future.

[Vayne.8563]

@Adry.7512 said:

@"Blockhead Magee.3092" said:I get it, the structure of the OP's post was an allegory to how they perceive the game.

"This is from years of playing and that statement is not up for debate" Your conclusion is wrong, this is from decades of arguing.

You’re implying that the majority of players don’t speed through content? Players speeding through GW2 content is a common issue with the game. Many content developers for GW2, one in particular who is highly knowledgeable on the game, states that player speed through content. I have been playing since vanilla....and all I have ever seen is players speeding through content. Btw I’m not a noob, I got several legendarios and other items that I got from hours and hours of gameplay. And considering all those hours, all I have ever seen is players speeding through content. To the point where I HAVE to go to YouTube content developers for lore and info OUTSIDE of personal story.

Yep, the majority of players don't speed through content. A small minority of people speed through content. They're loud but they're not a majority, in my opinion anyway.

Those people have a choice obviously. Btw, those people speed through content in other games too. Speed runners exist everywhere, even in Guild Wars 1. There are people who take the Droks run, get their max armor early. You can even skip most of Guild Wars Prophecies missions by running all the way to the end missions like Thunderhead Peaks skipping all the Kryta, Maguma and Crystal Desert missions. It's silly but some people did it. Doesn't make them a majority but they're definitely there.

This game was DESIGNED to be more sand boxy than other MMOs which are linear. Some of us prefer that. I don't know that it's a majority. But I like having a choice of stuff to do and just doing it. It's why I'm here. If some people can't handle that I'm okay with it.