New player observation after reaching lvl 80 on a few characters.

[ASP.8093]

@frareanselm.1925 said:In 15 days I leveled up to 80 and geared a staff daredevil and a Revenant with a power set and a condi one.I deleted both due how bad they are.The daredevil has less dps than a reaper with half the survival, so theres no reason to play it. At least in PVE.The reve played with power build do decent damage but the problem is if you use all your energy in DPS then you dont have enery to heal or protection utilities.The condi reve succs. Torment is one of the worst conditions, dont do a good burst, its slow, and has the same problem of energy, if you invest all in attacks then you cant heal.

What content did you actually play as all three of these classes?

[Armen.1483]

@"knite.1542" said:

You definitely didn't write your post to warn new players. If you cared about "warning new players" you would have posted something constructive. Regardless of whether or not you are right or wrong, you wrote your post to be a jerk. Let's not lieThanks for calling me a jerk, very constructive and friendly.

[knite.1542]

@Armen.1483 said:

@"knite.1542" said:

You definitely didn't write your post to warn new players. If you cared about "warning new players" you would have posted something constructive. Regardless of whether or not you are right or wrong, you wrote your post to be a jerk. Let's not lieThanks for calling me a jerk, very constructive and friendly.

I'm not claiming to be either. More just pointing out that you attacked the player and then when you got called out you tried to backpedal as if you had good intentions.

If you are gonna be a jerk, own it.

[Ryou.2398]

@Armen.1483 said:Most of this is wrong, lol. What is the point of this post already ?

How so?

[Ryou.2398]

@Armen.1483 said:

@ASP.8093 said:

@Armen.1483 said:Most of this is wrong, lol. What is the point of this post already ?

If we actually teach the OP something by adding 2-3 explanatory sentences after our "lol nope," then we will have made it a useful thread anyway.@Vayne.8563 said:

@Armen.1483 said:

What's the point of replying if you aren't going to say how it's wrong? The OP says he's a new player. This is an oppotunity for veterans to share their knowledge with a new player and teach them something. What's the point of your post exactly?If I start teaching them the game, you would come and ask why am I doing it. Anyway I see nobody who asks for help/suggestion or advise, there are no polemics, nothing to discuss here... All I see there is some misleading information that can confuse actual new players, so I don't understand what is the point of this post. And I wrote mine to warn players that the new player's observation is far from the reality. Is it wrong what I said ? Is it wrong why I said that ? Is it offensive ?

Thats a hek of an assumptions and a bad justification.

[Armen.1483]

@Ryou.2398 said:

@"Armen.1483" said:Most of this is wrong, lol. What is the point of this post already ?

How so?

Glad you asked.First of all, I guess the person is talking from the open world pve perspective, it needs to be clarified however, because PVP and WVW are all another story.Now there are several things that are completely wrong from the root:1st the gear mostly decides the squishyness of the class, while I agree there are some classes that have easier time to survive than others with same gear but it is very well balanced elseway.2nd it is not always about "damage", there are support classes too. Literally every class can be played any way for open world pve, so all those commentary about the damage/survivability of those classes are random, I wouldn't have problems with those if it were"I played weaver and I liked it, but I didn't like thief".3rd: neither elementalist nor necro have line of sight problems. It is a core mechanic of the game and can apply to any profession: all projectile skills require line of sight.4th "Once a player progresses to harder pve content it becomes a matter of kill or be killed." about thief is completely wrong... again nothing to do with profession but more with the build. Thief got very strong builds with very good damage and there are lot of good uses for "hard pve content" for thief.5th "Engineer has mediocre damage"... wrong, engi is a very viable dps everywhere.6th "Mesmer and guardian are at lvl 20" have nothing to do with mesmer or guardian at lvl 80 for a player that knows those classes. And the "easiness to play" is kinda questionable.Finally there is no such a class as "fighter", maybe warrior ? This proves that the person who wrote original post has absolutely no knowledge of the game, he didn't even bother to remember the name of one of the classes he is writing about.Conclusion: as a new player you can make an observation and make a discussion and tell us which classes you liked and which ones you didn't; but claiming random stuff about the balance of the classes you know nothing about (because again you are a new player*) is not understandable for me and let's say if I were a new player too and came here and read this it could potentially mislead me in the choice of my "1st class".

[EyzKold.8247]

@Armen.1483 said:

@Ryou.2398 said:

@Armen.1483 said:Most of this is wrong, lol. What is the point of this post already ?

How so?

Glad you asked.First of all, I guess the person is talking from the open world pve perspective, it needs to be clarified however, because PVP and WVW are all another story.Now there are several things that are completely wrong from the root:1st the gear mostly decides the squishyness of the class, while I agree there are some classes that have easier time to survive than others with same gear but it is very well balanced elseway.2nd it is not always about "damage", there are support classes too. Literally every class can be played any way for open world pve, so all those commentary about the damage/survivability of those classes are random, I wouldn't have problems with those if it were"I played weaver and I liked it, but I didn't like thief".3rd: neither elementalist nor necro have line of sight problems. It is a core mechanic of the game and can apply to any profession: all projectile skills require line of sight.4th "Once a player progresses to harder pve content it becomes a matter of kill or be killed." about thief is completely wrong... again nothing to do with profession but more with the build. Thief got very strong builds with very good damage and there are lot of good uses for "hard pve content" for thief.5th "Engineer has mediocre damage"... wrong, engi is a very viable dps everywhere.6th "Mesmer and guardian are at lvl 20" have nothing to do with mesmer or guardian at lvl 80 for a player that knows those classes. And the "easiness to play" is kinda questionable.Finally there is no such a class as "fighter", maybe warrior ? This proves that the person who wrote original post has absolutely no knowledge of the game, he didn't even bother to remember the name of one of the classes he is writing about.Conclusion: as a new player you can make an observation and make a discussion and tell us which classes you liked and which ones you didn't; but claiming random stuff about the balance of the classes you know nothing about (because again you are a new player*) is not understandable for me and let's say if I were a new player too and came here and read this it could potentially mislead me in the choice of my "1st class".

I guess maybe new players shouldn’t make any observations at all. I’m glad I’m not in any guilds either. Same old stuff, different day. I see people talking down on others on the forums as well as on chat. I was just making a quick observation and if anyone had any positive thoughts/guidance it would be appreciated. I think maybe a moderator should close/lock this post. I think I will just move along and stay solo...good luck

[EyzKold.8247]

New players should avoid the forums at all cost

[Carnifex.3275]

@"EyzKold.8247" said:

3. Thief. Thief is fun to play pp/dd. Once a player progresses to harder pve content it becomes a matter of kill or be killed. Daredevil is basically hit and run..more running than anything else. Deadeye for that long range damage...it’s lackluster. Can’t really see a use for thief in hard pve content..one hit..dead.

That's interesting cuz i actually find Thief (or daredevil for that matter) the most easiest class to survive on. But then again.. i've mained it for years and years i guess that's the reason. But yea i wish there was some stability or some blocks or some sustain without sacrificin your utilities/traits. I'm talkin only about endgame PvE tho. In PvP/WvW.. sadly its not that great as it used to be. Having played Thief in PvP/WvW 4-5 years ago and seeing how anet nerfed us over the years made me totally abandon those modes. It's a simple class in PvE and all you do is focus on your DPS output. It's simple in that manner that your rotations are very easy so you can actually focus on your dodge timings. Those are essential to your survival. If it would be a hard rotation class.. then yes.. it would be quite hard to us to survive.

[Dante.4519]

Maybe new players should stay away from this game all together.

I had fun reading all of it, and trying to learn stuff myself.This game is so complex and confusing.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@"EyzKold.8247" said:I’m still new and the games is really fun always an event to get into. The puzzles are really good and finding trouble is not a problem. So, I’ll dive into the classes that I have at 80 and some specializations.

1. Elementalist. I’ve played this class the longest and been having a great time with it. I’ve enjoyed using the Weaver with fire and air and healing with water. I hardly use earth but it does come in handy at times. The burst damage on single target is great but targeting/line of sight ranged skills are hit or miss. I would make a change to water pets...have them heal instead.. Fire/Air pets damage, Earth protective shields, and water pet for health. Tempest is pretty good but I haven’t put a lot of time into it.
2. Necromancer. Core Necromancer is ok but lackluster damage. Reaper is good with survivability. Can’t go wrong with Necromancer but it is slow. Los is questionable. Same problem with Elementalist. I’ve tried camera view with skills and it has helped, but not completely accurate.
3. Thief. Thief is fun to play pp/dd. Once a player progresses to harder pve content it becomes a matter of kill or be killed. Daredevil is basically hit and run..more running than anything else. Deadeye for that long range damage...it’s lackluster. Can’t really see a use for thief in hard pve content..one hit..dead.
4. Engineer is a fun class to play. Average damage but not as survivable as Necromancer. Lvl 80 working on holosmith.
5. . Mesmer and guardian are at lvl 20 and seem to be easy to use. Mesmer has ok damage but squishy. Guardian has good damage and looks like a good class to play. My fighter will be deleted soon. The Revenant seems sturdy and needs more damage.

For new players Necromancer. For fun and laughter the engineer. If a players wants more damage go Weaver/tempest. Ranged damage Mesmer and in your face guardian or revenant. The fighter ..well good luck.

You will likely be pleasantly surprised to find that all of these classes are much more than you've seen from them so far! Have fun!

Edit: I realize I probably could have been more helpful. I notice you play weaver and it sounds like you're using a ranged weapon (staff or scepter). Here's a video of the way I like to play my weaver. I prefer to get up close and personal with sword, so the perspective is probably quite a bit different! This is just a quick open world demo against some enemies that were particular trouble for me as a new player.

[EyzKold.8247]

Thx for the video. I have been using sword / dagger and staff for the Weaver. I’ve been using my Reaper most of the time now. Greatsword and staff. I’m still having a great time and I’m almost done with the skyscale. Finished with the saddle this morning...

[LadyKitty.6120]

Guess Kitty could give a surviving decent open-world dps build for every class. (These are for solo play.)

Warrior - Might Give Heals (and might give might with Phalanx Strength): http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKwAceRlRwWYUsJmJOUTdtKA-zRIYR0xXGBmCRUBmMLsaGB-e-Spam everything off-CD (except signets) and Headbutt+Outrage combo.

Engineer - Scrapper May Never Die: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PeQAIlRwgYOsNWKO+LftaA-zRIYRUwfGBKBSXBoyZZ3xN-e-Lots of CC, good boon uptimes, endless barrier (gotta take some big hits for any damage to get through), stab, superspeed, block, mortar for ranged, boonstrip yadayada.

Thief - Pew Eternal: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PaABoqxjlVwuYYsImJW2XmvPA-zRQYR0zZMBlXIBGCRUBVkAeOL6ZGB-e-Use Mark and cantrips to get stolen skills, spam 33333 and at 7 malice use Stolen Skill/Shadow Meld to stealth - > Stealth Attack to reset malice - > Repeat and kite enemies around. If dealing with masses of mobs, swap to sword+dagger. Perma-most boons, insane heals from IP.

Necromancer - the Parasite (kinda already mentioned) : http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSgAs+lNwAZhMN2IWKX5PTA-zRJYkRDfZ0RBESCI8sw7ZF-e-Spam weapon skills, F1+F3 for barrier, Blood is Power+Desert Shroud for big bleeds and Epi on main target to spread the love to possible adds. Kite.

Mesmer - Tormenting Mirages: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiABsyt/lVwSYIsImJe0XavMA-zRJYkRPfZEYF0RK49sI6ZF-e-Heals through torment and summoning illusions. Good CC, kites, mirage evades, self-buffs, blocks.

Revenant - Resistance is Futile: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmwAkeVlhQLsIajBRaMJKjBSjMBygD1k5zF-zRJYkRHfZEYFESK490ogzKA-e-Heals through torment and Soulcleave, mostly immune to condidamage and big power damage nerf, decent boons, high dps, bunch of CC etc.

Ranger - Tank like a Bear, Sting like a Hornet: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POQAUlZwiYSsP2JWSP3P1RUF-zRJYkRBfZEXCEYB4zsA6ZF-e-Spam stuff, use immobs and kite and use bear immunities as needed. Extremely high boon uptimes.

Elementalist - Tanky with Trailblazer? http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAw2lZwUYXsKGJOqOmvLA-zRJYkRDfZEYCESB4+0ogzKA-e-Pretty much usual condi weeber with trailblazer's and self-might ability. When it comes to ele, good self-boons, tankiness and dps are pretty mutually exclusive mostly.

Guardian - Burning Armor: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PWABk+d/lRweYVML2IWyS9PdA-zRJYkRPfZkQFkeK4+swzZF-e-Mace for blocks, axe for pulls, trailblazer's tankiness with quickbrand's damage and full self-boons

Most of the aforementioned builds should bench above 25k by a good player. On builds where Kitty chose trailblazer's, the reason is simply condi's superiority boon and survivability-wise on most classes. Pretty much only thief and scrapper can enter god mode with good power dps and boons, warr while booning others. Power renegade can also do well thanks to Battle Scars but condi does better with lower risk and superior survivability.

And how that relates to anything? OP complained about bad survivability on some classes. Oh well.

[MarzAttakz.9608]

@"LadyKitty.6120" said:Guess Kitty could give a surviving decent open-world dps build for every class. (These are for solo play.)

Warrior - Might Give Heals (and might give might with Phalanx Strength): http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKwAceRlRwWYUsJmJOUTdtKA-zRIYR0xXGBmCRUBmMLsaGB-e-Spam everything off-CD (except signets) and Headbutt+Outrage combo.

Engineer - Scrapper May Never Die: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PeQAIlRwgYOsNWKO+LftaA-zRIYRUwfGBKBSXBoyZZ3xN-e-Lots of CC, good boon uptimes, endless barrier (gotta take some big hits for any damage to get through), stab, superspeed, block, mortar for ranged, boonstrip yadayada.

Thief - Pew Eternal: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PaABoqxjlVwuYYsImJW2XmvPA-zRQYR0zZMBlXIBGCRUBVkAeOL6ZGB-e-Use Mark and cantrips to get stolen skills, spam 33333 and at 7 malice use Stolen Skill/Shadow Meld to stealth - > Stealth Attack to reset malice - > Repeat and kite enemies around. If dealing with masses of mobs, swap to sword+dagger. Perma-most boons, insane heals from IP.

Necromancer - the Parasite (kinda already mentioned) : http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSgAs+lNwAZhMN2IWKX5PTA-zRJYkRDfZ0RBESCI8sw7ZF-e-Spam weapon skills, F1+F3 for barrier, Blood is Power+Desert Shroud for big bleeds and Epi on main target to spread the love to possible adds. Kite.

Mesmer - Tormenting Mirages: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiABsyt/lVwSYIsImJe0XavMA-zRJYkRPfZEYF0RK49sI6ZF-e-Heals through torment and summoning illusions. Good CC, kites, mirage evades, self-buffs, blocks.

Revenant - Resistance is Futile: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmwAkeVlhQLsIajBRaMJKjBSjMBygD1k5zF-zRJYkRHfZEYFESK490ogzKA-e-Heals through torment and Soulcleave, mostly immune to condidamage and big power damage nerf, decent boons, high dps, bunch of CC etc.

Ranger - Tank like a Bear, Sting like a Hornet: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POQAUlZwiYSsP2JWSP3P1RUF-zRJYkRBfZEXCEYB4zsA6ZF-e-Spam stuff, use immobs and kite and use bear immunities as needed. Extremely high boon uptimes.

Elementalist - Tanky with Trailblazer? http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAw2lZwUYXsKGJOqOmvLA-zRJYkRDfZEYCESB4+0ogzKA-e-Pretty much usual condi weeber with trailblazer's and self-might ability. When it comes to ele, good self-boons, tankiness and dps are pretty mutually exclusive mostly.

Guardian - Burning Armor: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PWABk+d/lRweYVML2IWyS9PdA-zRJYkRPfZkQFkeK4+swzZF-e-Mace for blocks, axe for pulls, trailblazer's tankiness with quickbrand's damage and full self-boons

Most of the aforementioned builds should bench above 25k by a good player. On builds where Kitty chose trailblazer's, the reason is simply condi's superiority boon and survivability-wise on most classes. Pretty much only thief and scrapper can enter god mode with good power dps and boons, warr while booning others. Power renegade can also do well thanks to Battle Scars but condi does better with lower risk and superior survivability.

And how that relates to anything? OP complained about bad survivability on some classes. Oh well.

Purrrrrr..... Thank you Kitty!

Quick question (which I know goes against the entire Revenant and Firebrand build philosophy) but being a poor bastard I'm planning on sharing my Ascended Trailblazer gear between the two, if you had to choose a rune set that was beneficial to both without breaking the fundamentals of each build which would it be?

[voltaicbore.8012]

@EyzKold.8247 said:

I guess maybe new players shouldn’t make any observations at all. I’m glad I’m not in any guilds either. Same old stuff, different day. I see people talking down on others on the forums as well as on chat. I was just making a quick observation and if anyone had any positive thoughts/guidance it would be appreciated. I think maybe a moderator should close/lock this post. I think I will just move along and stay solo...good luck

A couple things:

(1) I'm 4-5 years into the game, and I still solo at least 90% of what I do in the game. The only thing I seek out groups for are fractals and raids, and occasionally dungeons if I want to do them faster. I'm also part of 3 guilds, none of which have rep requirements. However each of them provide something I need (or needed at some point in time). It's perfectly possible to solo your way through this game as a long-term strategy, just be prepared to join a guild if you'd like a smoother entry into raiding.

(2) I saw your thread title and assumed you were open to feedback, but the way your opening post itself was written, I can see why others might have missed that and saw your post as some new person making all sorts of wrong declarations...

(3) ...which leads to some people feeling the desire to 'put you in your place' or a variety other negative responses. Forgive us - many of us have been around for a good long while, and seeing bad information tossed around wears on one's patience over time. Kudos to the veterans who can consistently stay 100% constructive over the years.

[EyzKold.8247]

@voltaicbore.8012 said:

@EyzKold.8247 said:

I guess maybe new players shouldn’t make any observations at all. I’m glad I’m not in any guilds either. Same old stuff, different day. I see people talking down on others on the forums as well as on chat. I was just making a quick observation and if anyone had any positive thoughts/guidance it would be appreciated. I think maybe a moderator should close/lock this post. I think I will just move along and stay solo...good luck

A couple things:

(1) I'm 4-5 years into the game, and I still solo at least 90% of what I do in the game. The only thing I seek out groups for are fractals and raids, and occasionally dungeons if I want to do them faster. I'm also part of 3 guilds, none of which have rep requirements. However each of them provide something I need (or needed at some point in time). It's perfectly possible to solo your way through this game as a long-term strategy, just be prepared to join a guild if you'd like a smoother entry into raiding.

(2) I saw your thread title and assumed you were open to feedback, but the way your opening post itself was written, I can see why others might have missed that and saw your post as some new person making all sorts of wrong declarations...

(3) ...which leads to some people feeling the desire to 'put you in your place' or a variety other negative responses. Forgive us - many of us have been around for a good long while, and seeing bad information tossed around wears on one's patience over time. Kudos to the veterans who can consistently stay 100% constructive over the years.

Sorry, I shouldn’t have posted in the first place. My original post is from a new player’s perspective and a very rough generalization of some of the classes but not all of them for obvious reasons...being new. I did mention in a later post that I was open to suggestions and constructive comments...not having the best build, but something that is ok for a new player. New players are new for a reason. Lol. I’m currently using exotic gear and doing ok with it. Maybe I should have titled this post differently. “New player trying out different classes, this is what I observed so far, and looking for beginners build” or something...

[Cragga the Eighty Third.60]

Sorry, I shouldn’t have posted in the first place.

FWIW, I am always grateful when people post observations and impressions on classes/tactics/builds , because I pick up a lot of tips from the replies and discussions.