Stealth op

[Dawdler.8521]

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:1) complaints about stealth existed waaaaaay before shadow meld (I was hiding in keeps to res a mesmer friend back in vanilla, now I just don't need the mesmer)Its kind of funny - for most classes, people yell nerf elite when they (rightfully) claim that elite is OP and powercreeped, then they instantly sidestep themselves and start to list all the core things that need to be nerfed.

But thieves... no no no they have to be special and forget the most OP core skill that has existed since the launch of the game - black powder and how the thief can leap combo with easy into it. Its wasnt until the DE the cheesiness was superceeded by rifle dodging, yet many, many thieves still run d/p for obvious reasons. Cant mention its OP when talking about stealth though. Thats illegal.

[Qaju.2058]

Yet it's also us thieves that have begged to have our stealthless option we used to have in the early days of DE.

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There's nothing I would hope for more than for a fourth overhaul of DE albeit a minor one:

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Maleficent 7: when traited, you are also permanently revealed. All instances of stealth will grant access to flipped stealth attack that no longer requires stealth to perform.

Death judgment: removed and replaced with modified return of Cursed Bullet.

Cursed Bullet: 1/4 cast time, no lazing, 2000range, 2 boons corrupted. Half the dmg bonus per malice point than DJ in WvW/PvP, unblockable, can track up to targets atop cliffs or tower/keep walls. Half the projectile speed of DJ (about 20% increased speed from old Cursed Bullet).Death's Retreat: now also evades for 1/4s but keeps its current high initiative cost so can't spam it.

Shadow Gust: Also steals 1 boon (stability 1st target priority)

[kash.9213]

@aleron.1438 said:Yet it's also us thieves that have begged to have our stealthless option we used to have in the early days of DE.

---

There's nothing I would hope for more than for a fourth overhaul of DE albeit a minor one:

---

Maleficent 7: when traited, you are also permanently revealed. All instances of stealth will grant access to flipped stealth attack that no longer requires stealth to perform.

Death judgment: removed and replaced with modified return of Cursed Bullet.

Cursed Bullet: 1/4 cast time, no lazing, 2000range, 2 boons corrupted. Half the dmg bonus per malice point than DJ in WvW/PvP, unblockable, can track up to targets atop cliffs or tower/keep walls. Half the projectile speed of DJ (about 20% increased speed from old Cursed Bullet).Death's Retreat: now also evades for 1/4s but keeps its current high initiative cost so can't spam it.

Shadow Gust: Also steals 1 boon (stability 1st target priority)

I was going to hard disagree and then you pull out Cursed Bullet which brought me on board but then, if by no lazing you mean no curvature that would less fun, that was the best part. Of course it was mostly good for how it could time with DJ if that would be taken out. I like that raised tracking though if it could avoid some invisible pathing in places like SMC.

Unless there's some opening on maybe the front end of that Death's Retreat that could be really strong with it's Leap.

[Kylden Ar.3724]

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Played full glass scepter/dagger core ele today 5 min until i did meet first thief and back to mesmer. No idea how people play this game without stealth. :#

As part of a zerg. If you're roaming/scouting/havoc you have to have either stealth, massive disengage, or both, in your kit.

And as a Mesmer main, I have for years been suggesting a way to fix stealth so that it is still a useful part of kits, but not a must have if available. Yeah, you'd be visible to a point at all times, but people don't realize how valuable breaking targeting is for defense (both against ranged, and the number of skills that don't fire without a target).

Stealth should be useful primarily for scouting and a disengage. Not for dancing around the opponent.

[Monarch.4026]

And I left WoW because one of the reasons I was getting sick of was stupid, OP gimmicks like OP stealth mechanics. Great. Just great. My enjoyment of this game thus far just dropped significantly. Welp, hopefully Ashes gets it right.

[Burnfall.9573]

@"Monarch.4026" said:And I left WoW because one of the reasons I was getting sick of was stupid, OP gimmicks like OP stealth mechanics. Great. Just great. My enjoyment of this game thus far just dropped significantly. Welp, hopefully Ashes gets it right.

+1

'stealth will break as soon as you take an offensive action'

[Qaju.2058]

@kash.9213 said:

@aleron.1438 said:Yet it's also us thieves that have begged to have our stealthless option we used to have in the early days of DE.

---

There's nothing I would hope for more than for a fourth overhaul of DE albeit a minor one:

---

Maleficent 7: when traited, you are also permanently revealed. All instances of stealth will grant access to flipped stealth attack that no longer requires stealth to perform.

Death judgment: removed and replaced with modified return of Cursed Bullet.

Cursed Bullet: 1/4 cast time, no lazing, 2000range, 2 boons corrupted. Half the dmg bonus per malice point than DJ in WvW/PvP, unblockable, can track up to targets atop cliffs or tower/keep walls. Half the projectile speed of DJ (about 20% increased speed from old Cursed Bullet).Death's Retreat: now also evades for 1/4s but keeps its current high initiative cost so can't spam it.

Shadow Gust: Also steals 1 boon (stability 1st target priority)

I was going to hard disagree and then you pull out Cursed Bullet which brought me on board but then, if by no lazing you mean no curvature that would less fun, that was the best part. Of course it was mostly good for how it could time with DJ if that would be taken out. I like that raised tracking though if it could avoid some invisible pathing in places like SMC.

Unless there's some opening on maybe the front end of that Death's Retreat that could be really strong with it's Leap.

Sorry I meant to say Lasing, the pre laser cast animation of DJ prior to the shot being fired. So revamped Cursed Bullet would fire off just faster. And of course it would retain its characteristic parallel to the ground hovering curve it used to do, going up and down. But for targets already high atop unwalkable paths, it should act sorta like a FGM-148 Javelin missile.

[Exzen.2976]

Stealth is completely op for roaming and small scale combat and leaves very little room for counter play if played well. You can roam on thief without a main hand and still kill people because of how broken stealth is xD

[Monarch.4026]

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@"Monarch.4026" said:And I left WoW because one of the reasons I was getting sick of was stupid, OP gimmicks like OP stealth mechanics. Great. Just great. My enjoyment of this game thus far just dropped significantly. Welp, hopefully Ashes gets it right.

+1

'stealth will break as soon as you take an offensive action'

That's nice. That's much more engaging, much more dependant on thoughtful combat and not the stupid, typical "i killed someone in 3 seconds and now I get a get out of jail free card so I can escape and try again" brainless gameplay.

[Straegen.2938]

Rogue in WoW has perma stealth. He can go stealth every 3 or 4 seconds while out of combat with simply pressing/clicking on a Stealth button. He can also vanish from combat every 2 mins or every 1.5 mins, depends of spec/build. So, as a Rogue and Druid (especially Feral druid) in WoW you can just walk around stealthed until cancelled or until you enter a combat.Rogues in WoW cannot ambush, instantly disappear and ambush, disappear 3s later and ambush, repeat. They also have a great number of counters. Take damage, stealth is removed. In combat, cannot restealth. Stealthed players move more slowly NOT faster. Characters and animals can detect stealth players. Have to sneak up behind players. WoW stealth can be annoying but it isn't even in the same universe as the junk in GW2.

[MaLong.2079]

To me, the current state of stealth in WvW has a very similar effect, and sentiment I dare say, that allowing players to wp during combat would have.

Stealth should only be allowed out of combat, to start a fight with an advantage or to sneak into position undetected etc. If it is to be allowed during combat (and it should not) then any damage taken from a hit or a condition should terminate it. Also, the start of any outgoing attack should also terminate stealth, including the finisher.