Ranger changes May 28th (Shouts)

[EnderzShadow.2506]

@Xaylin.1860 said:

@EnderzShadow.2506 said:@the bolded part, read Euranteins comments on this.

I disagree on this part. ;)Plenty of classes with way worse condition removal even when not picking WS.

You can say what you want, but without the experience or a solid argument....

@Pedro Sequeira.3198 said:

@EnderzShadow.2506 said:

-It's not for an upcoming e-spec. Need an expansion for that.

Expansion definitely no longer required for this, on their roadmap they restated they will try to add xpac like features on more normal patches such as in LW episodes and whatnot.

Thanks Pedro, I did not know that.

@Soilder.3607 said:

@Eurantien.4632 said:

@Soilder.3607 said:I haven't touched this game since December but anyone serious about condition removal used Runes of the Revenant or Runes of Resistance. Runes of the Trooper have not been meta for any content for

years

.

Removing one condition at a time has not been viable since pre-HoT. All the whining in this thread is standard fare whenever Anet updates ranger, hence why they've learned to ignore this forum.

You're out of touch. Revenant and resistance were meta because of boon share on boonbeast. Boonbeast isn't meta anymore. Lb/gs is more meta now and there are the WS version and the MM version at high tiers. MM was higher risk for faster kills and required soldier runes for its Condi clear. The range, the extra stealth, the higher damage, and low prevalence of Condi classes allows for the one Condi clears of soldier runes to work again. This nerf kills that build and any others that potentially wanted to move away from WS and that's the problem. Even more of a reliance on WS and less build diversity

No Eurantien, I'm not out of touch. This entire subforum is out of touch.I will probably have something to say again in six months

If the season was still going, then yes at the top tiers of pvp, it pigeon holes rangers and kill viability.

lol this isn't your 'every 6 month' vent spot.

[InsaneQR.7412]

@EnderzShadow.2506 said:

@Xaylin.1860 said:

@"Durzlla.6295" said:I have a feeling "Commands" are going to be a type of skill for an espec or they want to give rangers shouts... but either way it'd be nice if we could for the love of god get a Resounding Timbre nerf reversal in PvP now that they don't even have the potential to clear conditions.

I agree that there must be a reason for this we don't know yet. Otherwise they won't spend time on it.

Three things I can think of:

• The next e-spec gets Shouts (as Durzlla said)
• A different e-spec gets Commands and they thought this category was more fitting for Ranger Shouts
• They are working on a way to nerf Sic'Em on SB which possibly affected external Shouts

Or a mixture of this.

The nerfed interaction with Runes of the Trooper is a pity but I feel that Rangers have plenty of other options for condition removal.

-It's not for an upcoming e-spec. Need an expansion for that.

-It's not to nerf sicem. They can do that without any games.

If they planned on changing a spec to fit in 'commands' instead of shouts, then why wouldn't they just do this all at once?

*Maybe New Runes? Or maybe they are changing Runes

@the bolded part, read Euranteins comments on this.

Keep it mind that they never stated that a new e-spec is expansion only. They stated that they can bring expansion like content to the game even during living world.Although it's highly improbable, its not impossible.

Maybe they will change sic ' em in a certain way that makes sense with commands.We don't know.

Probably because this was some kind of teasing step and it was a small thing to do they changed it.

Everything alse is TBA.

[Durzlla.6295]

@InsaneQR.7412 said:

@EnderzShadow.2506 said:

@Xaylin.1860 said:

@"Durzlla.6295" said:I have a feeling "Commands" are going to be a type of skill for an espec or they want to give rangers shouts... but either way it'd be nice if we could for the love of god get a Resounding Timbre nerf reversal in PvP now that they don't even have the potential to clear conditions.

I agree that there must be a reason for this we don't know yet. Otherwise they won't spend time on it.

Three things I can think of:

• The next e-spec gets Shouts (as Durzlla said)
• A different e-spec gets Commands and they thought this category was more fitting for Ranger Shouts
• They are working on a way to nerf Sic'Em on SB which possibly affected external Shouts

Or a mixture of this.

The nerfed interaction with Runes of the Trooper is a pity but I feel that Rangers have plenty of other options for condition removal.

-It's not for an upcoming e-spec. Need an expansion for that.

-It's not to nerf sicem. They can do that without any games.

If they planned on changing a spec to fit in 'commands' instead of shouts, then why wouldn't they just do this all at once?

*Maybe New Runes? Or maybe they are changing Runes

@the bolded part, read Euranteins comments on this.

Keep it mind that they never stated that a new e-spec is expansion only. They stated that they can bring expansion like content to the game even during living world.Although it's highly improbable, its not impossible.

Maybe they will change sic ' em in a certain way that makes sense with commands.We don't know.

Probably because this was some kind of teasing step and it was a small thing to do they changed it.

Everything alse is TBA.

I mean, Sic’em already is a command, all of our shouts other than the heal and elite (and even then it’s up to debate) are us just commanding our pet to do something.

I’m firmly of the opinion we’re either getting shouts on like a pack hunter espec, or someone else is getting commands.

[InsaneQR.7412]

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@InsaneQR.7412 said:

@EnderzShadow.2506 said:

@Xaylin.1860 said:

@Durzlla.6295 said:I have a feeling "Commands" are going to be a type of skill for an espec or they want to give rangers shouts... but either way it'd be nice if we could for the love of god get a Resounding Timbre nerf reversal in PvP now that they don't even have the potential to clear conditions.

I agree that there must be a reason for this we don't know yet. Otherwise they won't spend time on it.

Three things I can think of:

• The next e-spec gets Shouts (as Durzlla said)
• A different e-spec gets Commands and they thought this category was more fitting for Ranger Shouts
• They are working on a way to nerf Sic'Em on SB which possibly affected external Shouts

Or a mixture of this.

The nerfed interaction with Runes of the Trooper is a pity but I feel that Rangers have plenty of other options for condition removal.

-It's not for an upcoming e-spec. Need an expansion for that.

-It's not to nerf sicem. They can do that without any games.

If they planned on changing a spec to fit in 'commands' instead of shouts, then why wouldn't they just do this all at once?

*Maybe New Runes? Or maybe they are changing Runes

@the bolded part, read Euranteins comments on this.

Keep it mind that they never stated that a new e-spec is expansion only. They stated that they can bring expansion like content to the game even during living world.Although it's highly improbable, its not impossible.

Maybe they will change sic ' em in a certain way that makes sense with commands.We don't know.

Probably because this was some kind of teasing step and it was a small thing to do they changed it.

Everything alse is TBA.

I mean, Sic’em already is a command, all of our shouts other than the heal and elite (and even then it’s up to debate) are us just commanding our pet to do something.

I’m firmly of the opinion we’re either getting shouts on like a pack hunter espec, or someone else is getting commands.

I am betting on command necro.I would even dare to say that they may remove rise from reaper just to slap it on the new spec. Or it's even a complete rework of core.They don't shy away from drastic changes and I am honestly happy about that. It makes build craft more dynamic and keeps the game fresh. Let's see what will happen.

[jcbroe.4329]

@Soilder.3607 @"Eurantien.4632"

In line with your discussion.

This is going to sound redundant but I'm not complaining because "they changed something." I'm complaining because they changed something (in the code).

(Wild speculation incoming): It seems to be the case in the code that every "skill type" and "trait type" has some sort of inheritance structure that goes: category -> subdivision -> [possible additional subdivisions] -> specific skill/trait.So assuming this is more than a tooltip change, it means that they touched this tangled web of code, and we've seen in the past where this happens and then the consequences of it are in the game for weeks/months, like skills not having cooldown reductions or effects applied to them by associated traits, or the opposite - traits applying to skills when they shouldn't (I can't be the only person that remembers when they added the Fury proc to the GS trait for Rangers and all of a sudden Longbow was giving itself Fury on every hit). And Soulbeast adds another layer on top of that with Merged state interactions.

Obviously it's not guaranteed that something went wrong with changes that were made, but it means that for the next patch cycle we all have to be diligent about monitoring skill interactions with the different traits, runes, and elite specializations to see if they broke anything and then promptly report it in hopes of a fix happening.

That's of course in addition to the fear of the unknown - a lot of people are still reeling from the very painful Druid Pet stat reduction business that may have been justified in PvE, but pushed the elite spec further away from anything viable elsewhere.

That and it was a tad unnecessary - Rangers had shouts in GW1, Paragons had "commands" in GW1. So it has to be related to some big picture (that hopefully delivers and not disappoints like what has been the trend recently). I'd be hyped if this was leading up to some Mesmer rework/Berserker redesign/Engineer trait revamp style update for the class, but I'm with Eurantien on this one - I'm not very confident in their understanding, vision, or scope in what changes get made.

And as always I think we're in dire need of some sort of roadmap to give the community a sense of what's in the works and being planned to generate excitement while also tempering expectations (look at this other conversation about new especs going - that should be an expectation that gets tamped down if it isn't happening before it generates backlash from sheer speculation).

[TwiceDead.1963]

@matthewr.3980 said:What compensation does my character get for an unanticipated core change?

NOTHING.

Tough.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

I don't see what bonus/rewards "command" skills would give us in the future. For the moment I see only a new type of skill without any sync with other runes or anything else. And this is STUPID! I have a worse word for this but I don't want to get a warning. You don't change an entire set of utilities just for "what it will come..."How could you leave a Class with an entire set of utilities without sync with any kind of rune. We can play without, idd, but as @Eurantien.4632 said, now we must focus only on one build, we don't have options anymore like other class to mix different traits lines.In world vs world, this change doesn't have the same impact as in sPVP. In wvw you can kite a lot, you can fight from range, so you can avoid as much you can conditions ... but in sPVP you must be THERE, near or inside the point, and on that area, you must fight against conditions. For that, now it is mandatory to play Survival trait line, otherwise, you are dead in 3 sec.I don't know what they want to do, but from my POV they started to ruin the Ranger in sPVP.I don't see any fun to play the same build over and over ...ANET ... you start Summer with a BIG fail ...

[Dadnir.5038]

@EnderzShadow.2506 said:-It's not for an upcoming e-spec. Need an expansion for that.

-It's not to nerf sicem. They can do that without any games.

If they planned on changing a spec to fit in 'commands' instead of shouts, then why wouldn't they just do this all at once?

*Maybe New Runes? Or maybe they are changing Runes

I think they are doing some ground work to give room for some new e-spec. Recently we've got some things with very limited access introduced in the game like dark aura or commands. That said, I can be wrong and they just:

• Want to categorize the active part of the necromancer's minion skills as commands
• or they are getting ready to introduce a PvE pet through mastery that will be affected by commands.
• But we can't exclude the possibility of ANet working on a bunch of elite spec that give a pet to command to other professions.

[Xaylin.1860]

@InsaneQR.7412 said:Keep it mind that they never stated that a new e-spec is expansion only. They stated that they can bring expansion like content to the game even during living world.Although it's highly improbable, its not impossible.

They could easily add Utility-sets per class instead of a whole e-spec via the unlock-system. Not sure if I enjoyed it, though.

@Dadnir.5038 said:[...]

They better not give Mesmers a pet spec... whuaaa.

[Dadnir.5038]

@Xaylin.1860 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:[...]

They better not give Mesmers a pet spec... whuaaa.

Why not, any pet related spec can potentially be harmless for PvP/WvW, which in itself is perfect since it won't do much to worsen the "balance" in these gamemode.

I mean, mesmer can very well change the way clone work, tying these clone to themselve instead of tying them to their foes. These clones would attack the same target than you and could be blown up with the F skills just like they already does. You just add some commands that affect both you (just like the F skills does) and your clones on top of that and everything is fine. Commands would be "shatters" that doesn't shatter and are utility skills. This does have good potential in my opinion and would barely make it better than core mesmer if it's done right.

[InsaneQR.7412]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Xaylin.1860 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:[...]

They better not give Mesmers a pet spec... whuaaa.

Why not, any pet related spec can potentially be harmless for PvP/WvW, which in itself is perfect since it won't do much to worsen the "balance" in these gamemode.

I mean, mesmer can very well change the way clone work, tying these clone to themselve instead of tying them to their foes. These clones would attack the same target than you and could be blown up with the F skills just like they already does. You just add some

commands

that affect both you (just like the F skills does) and your clones on top of that and everything is fine.

Commands

would be "shatters" that doesn't shatter and are utility skills. This does have good potential in my opinion and would barely make it better than core mesmer if it's done right.

Or just remove the shatter mechanic and give the F-skills command functionality.This would make the whole thing already more synergy.