Sylosi.6503

True, but then those not heavily into roleplaying realise the "fights" aren't much different.

Playing with one other person in what is basically a 5 man normal multiplayer lobby game tacked on to the side of the game, has zero to do with being "mmo". If this were an MMORPG in anything but name only, sPvP would not even exist.

Not really, over the life of this game Ele has arguably fared better than most other classes (Guardian being the obvious exception). not really, Ele obviously enjoyed core days the most but ever since HoT, other classes have been getting what ele can do with additional effectsEle fared fine after HoT launched, tempest was strong in PvP (multiple teams used one in the world championships), it was still God tier DPS in PVE and it was still meta in WvW. And that is typical of ele for most of the game, across all 3 game modes it has spent most of the time between being decent and God tier. Which is far better than at least half the classes and arguably better than anything other than Guardian and maybe Rev, though Rev isn't really an equal comparison without core. But lets take another class and compare to see how "hard done by" ele is. Take engy which seems appropriate given this WvW nerf and the obvious favouritism to scrapper support (that is sarcasm for anyone unable to work it out). It took about 6 years for engy to get a meta build in WvW when they finally reworked Scrapper (and no the one guy who used to play hide and seek at the start of some GvGs does not count). Now in PvP engy does rather well. When the most busted thing in the game was cele ele, the second most busted thing was cele engy, Scrapper spent a few months silly OP in HoT, but got nerfed relatively quickly and was generally worse than Tempest, but then fared better than ele with Holo in PoF. Which leaves PvE where for most of the game engy was between bad and medicore, unlike ele. I can only imagine the crying if ele had been non-meta in WvW for 6 years, whilst being equally unimpressive in PvE for most of that time. Yet apparently Anet hates ele...

Not really, over the life of this game Ele has arguably fared better than most other classes (Guardian being the obvious exception).

redacted .

WvW lacks players not because of lack of rewards, but because the game mode essentially does not work as a competitive PvP game (that goes for both fights and PPT), which means most of the time you end up with dull, bad PvP.

If my group of 3 is fighting a group of 5 then we are having an outnumbered fight, it's pretty simple maths... And what some PvDoor tag is doing the other side of the map has no bearing on that or perhaps you think he magically chucks heals across the map to us... How about when he leaves the map and our opponents still have the outnumbered buff until the next tick, do you think he will chuck heals to us from another map? As for wanting perks for being outnumbered, no idea what you are going on about, I didn't ask for perks, I simply pointed out the flaw in this idea or indeed any idea that attempts to attach mechanics or stats that effect fights to the outnumbered buff.

So if three of us are roaming about in a group and we encounter a 5 man group who have the outnumbered buff, because our blob is PvDooring some tower, then the three of us are having to fight an outnumbered fight against 5 guys whilst having the disadvantage of no downstate/res... Doesn't seem a very well thought through idea to me.

Downstate ups the skill cap by adding a layer of teamwork, awareness, decision making, etc to a game where the combat is frankly not particularly skilled, damage application especially is faceroll, even more so on certain classes. (an "action" combat game that aims for you, LOL) Which is why more skilled players tend to manage downstate better than less skilled ones., such as back when this game had "e-sports" you could see the handful of teams that were actually good, generally handled downstate better than the other PvP teams, let alone bad WvW players.

It wasn't "bound" to smoke bomb. Toss Elixir S has given stealth since the start of the game, the only difference was back then it was 50% chance stealth, 50% chance stability and likewise Toss Elixir U used to create a smoke screen (or wall of reflection, again 50% chance). Engi has always had plenty of access to stealth.

Redacted...

Imagine going on about who is good or bad in WvW, it is like arguing over who is top of the special needs class.

Redacted .

8 years in and GW2 players still don't grasp that the problem with class balance in WvW is WvW...

Thanks for the laugh. I’m sorry you think dropping a circle on another zerg takes skill.I don't. You jumping to conclusions is what is amusing. I hate to break it to you, but in the grand scheme of things neither largescale nor smallscale in WvW are anything but a joke as far as skilled gaming goes.

Thanks for the laugh.

It's an 8 year old MMORPG in what is a declining genre and a niche game mode that does not really work, where the vast majority of players/guilds left years ago, it has been very quiet for years...

Irony...

You should go play a shooter, though of course that requires actual mechanical ability to be good at, unlike this game which aims for you.

The class designs and their combat mechanics were fine for a game that had super casual PvE. If people wanted to speed run dungeons then they picked the wrong game, but that is a problem with many PvE players in MMOs fullstop, too many think every MMO should be WoW and then cry about it when it isn't. There are a ton more examples of class designs than wow. Tell it to the multitudes of PvE zombies who scream in every MMO that does things a little different, where are my raids, where are heals/tanks/DPS, why doesn't this game have addons, where is the DPS meter, where are the hard/easy modes, where is the LFG tool, etc...

The class designs and their combat mechanics were fine for a game that had super casual PvE. If people wanted to speed run dungeons then they picked the wrong game, but that is a problem with many PvE players in MMOs fullstop, too many think every MMO should be WoW and then cry about it when it isn't.

I'm not talking about the players, I'm talking about the "vision" of the game of Anet/Devs, their vision was PvP was the serious bit, PvE/WvW the casual bit. The combat / class design and balance reflected that for the first couple of years until they decided to change the game direction with HoT / Raids. So like I said and contrary to what you claimed, raids did cause balance problems. Wrong, the core game design for combat/classes worked fine for what it was designed for - PvP, it only became an issue when they wanted to change the game into something else (more serious PvE than they initially planned) that the core game design did not fit that, that is down to them completely changing the direction of the game. Wrong. The game was never intended to have "serious" PvE, so it was not designed for that in mind, the core game was fine for what was originally intended. Raids screwed balance up because the game was never supposed to have them and they had to wreck their own combat system to fit in BS for raids like "healers", make condie damage useful in PvE, have "tanks", etc all things that went against what the game was designed around. And what did they get, nothing other than a heavily declining game which is still considered a joke for PvE raiding when you can go play FF14 or something that does that sort of thing much better.

Nah, the game design worked fine for what it was designed for, which was PvP. The original "vision" for this game was PvP was the serious bit, PvE / WvW were casual, to the point 'no raids' was used as a selling point for fun, casual, friendly PvE with no toxic raids. So the attitude was PvP was the only bit that really mattered for combat design/balance, the other two casual modes did not matter as long as PvE was faceroll enough that pretty much any group of classes could do dungeons and WvW was just a mode beyond help as far as balance is concerned. Which is why in Alpha you had players like Sacrx ("famous" WvW player) making videos about how WvW/PvE were basically being ignored in regard to class/combat design and balance, and that all the devs were bothered about was feedback from Teldo and co in PvP. And why for the first 2 and half years of the game balance was nearly entirely around PvP. So raids did in fact cause problems for balance in PvP, (and even WvW), the game was not designed to have "healers" like Druid, nor tanks like Chrono that virtually broke PvP, nor for condition damage to be buffed as it was because PvE players complained about zerker or nothing, nor for endless boon uptime to give players something to do in raids, etc.

Good thing that high mobility (in WvW) isn't at all a busted, imbalanced, low skilled, crutch that lets you screw up / get outplayed without getting punished for it. Which doesn't at all break fundamental concepts of good game design like risk vs reward. Seven years of superbly balanced mobility in WvW comes to an end in this patch...

There has not been really populated servers for years. Go back to 2016, even by that time WvW had already lost huge numbers of players/guilds who left within a couple of years of launch, more left in the pre-HoT content drought and then more left with HoT. Yet if you compare a stacked server back then to the laughably termed "stacked server" in the last 2 years it is like night and day. Take FSP back then, that reached a point where on days that were popular for guild raids at primetime you'd have a 150+ queue on EB and all three borderlands queued with 20-30 people, two of those borderlands would be packed full of guilds raiding. The difference outside of prime was even more telling, used to have servers with blobs fighting in the afternoon (Ravya, Oblivious, etc), 50+ people on TS, etc, but that ended long ago, this has been a primetime only game for a long while (unless you are a PvE hero). And then even primetime has become a pitiful shadow of itself, hardly any guilds, usually one server is virtually absent, and you have resets that are often basically done by 10 PM. And that is comparing 2 or 3 linked servers to 1 back in 2016. My grandmother is in better health than WvW and she has been dead for ten years.