Quadox.7834

Dead meme to put on any topics that wants abusive mechanics out of the game. yes, lifo as I said

the game is only turning 8 this year... I am aware

i tested it and it doesn't take stability first

Yes I think so too.

Yes they were powercrept when they were +25/50%. Funnily enough I criticized them (esp. leadership, radiance, earth) for that back then and now I am doing it again but in the opposite direction.

The runes that give condition or boon duration, such as leadership, were overnerfed a bit in the competitive balance patch. Stats on runes are tiered like this (scholar rune as an example): Balance implications:The following runes appear over at godsofpvp.net: fighter, soldier, divinity, resistance, traveler, lynx, sunless. I would add infiltration and eagle for things like power mes, and adventure is a meta choice for condi mirage. Note the pattern, the runes are either: statheavy (with +125 of a good stat), like fighter, soldier, adventure, scholar.-incoming condition duration%, such as resistance and sunless, these weren't nerfed in the patch and remain at 25% instead of 10%.all stat runes, like divinity or revenant, simply because they provide a lot of stats and because the +10% hp is helpful for some squishies.+25 movement speed%, because they give movement speed to specs without swiftness.You will notice that the +condition/boonduration runes generally aren't used (exceptional case for traveler because movement speed is incredibly important). Thus, this change makes sense both in terms of standardization, and also in terms of balance. TL;DRRunes that improve condition duration or boon duration were nerfed from 25% to 10% in the big patch. These should be upped to 15% (in the form of 225 expertise/concentration), which would make more sense both in terms of balance, and in terms of how expertise/concentration works.

i agree. I also hated the changes to shield skills and continuous nerf to wells. chrono, in my eyes, is an unplayable and unfun spec. Crazy how i used to think it was the most perfect playstyle for me. Now it's a disaster. My first reaction to chrono was "I refuse to play this broken op build" so I stuck with shatter core (I remember going into the 1v1 server on launch and just demolishing people with unnerfed launch chrono), but now I miss it (not the bunker version though).

Ranger is a bad example because power ranger was really bad in early core (and ranger in general probably saw the least play out of all 8 profs), for example rapid fire had a 5 second channel and arrow velocity was about a third. War/thief etc work better to compare prob.

And there were other powercrept things in early core that we couldn't even dream of now, such as vigor 100% endurance regen, quickness 100% attack speed, basi venom/frostbow being immune to stunbreaks. But some things are powercrept (and these are important), such as visual noise, and traits in general (mainly with the 2015 rework).

Just revert the self-shatter change it really is not that hard

Portal > thief More like Portal > Shortbow 5 thief has portal but sind doesn't want to use it Because its only one-way, and only one person can use it. Even with the longer duration, its so much worse than the Mesmer portal, it aint even funny. 1 month ago most people would have said mes portal was bad. Thief portal is good, you heard it here first. Not really? Noone wouldve said Mesmer Portal is bad, only that Mesmer might not want to use it. Or perhaps that its not good outside of coordinated play (that much is true). But bad? Hardly. Anyway, its so limited in PvP that its really no good. I get why they limited it, but it kinda makes the skill pointless. But then again, its quite nice in WvW, sooo. But yeah, in PvP it doesnt really do enough, shuffling over one person once, with no chance of return, is just too narrow of a proposition, and usually the thief will use it themselves, and given how fast thief moves accross the map? Rather pointless. When I said bad I meant "not worth taking" and now it is suddenly the bee's knees. And the fact that thieves mostly (almost only) use it for themselves is exactly the problem. I mean, "not worth taking" also comes with conditionals. Thieves portal is basically not worth taking unconditionally. And why would the thief portaling himself be a problem? They can get accross the map extremely quickly anyway, and theyre extremely useless on their own, so that narrows down the potential use cases further. Its the main reason you dont use it. It is a "problem" because it doesn't get as much value from the skill for the reasons you explained yourself (thief has high mobility). Oh, thats what you meant. Yeah, basically. And shuffling a guy from your team around is too narrow usually. Iunno how Id fix it in PvP without making it broken or making thief even further locked into +1ing. Making it thief + 1 ally could work, but maybe thats just not worth doing. The way to fix it is to educate thieves in how to use it properly. Even the ones that know how to use it, dont. Because its not good even when you try to play to its strengths. As I said, its simply too narrow in its use cases. Even if you want to shuffle a teammate around, its often not good to do so, and setting up when it is good is too specific and easily stopped. Not rly true, sind doesn't use it but others do.

Portal > thief More like Portal > Shortbow 5 thief has portal but sind doesn't want to use it Because its only one-way, and only one person can use it. Even with the longer duration, its so much worse than the Mesmer portal, it aint even funny. 1 month ago most people would have said mes portal was bad. Thief portal is good, you heard it here first. Not really? Noone wouldve said Mesmer Portal is bad, only that Mesmer might not want to use it. Or perhaps that its not good outside of coordinated play (that much is true). But bad? Hardly. Anyway, its so limited in PvP that its really no good. I get why they limited it, but it kinda makes the skill pointless. But then again, its quite nice in WvW, sooo. But yeah, in PvP it doesnt really do enough, shuffling over one person once, with no chance of return, is just too narrow of a proposition, and usually the thief will use it themselves, and given how fast thief moves accross the map? Rather pointless. When I said bad I meant "not worth taking" and now it is suddenly the bee's knees. And the fact that thieves mostly (almost only) use it for themselves is exactly the problem. I mean, "not worth taking" also comes with conditionals. Thieves portal is basically not worth taking unconditionally. And why would the thief portaling himself be a problem? They can get accross the map extremely quickly anyway, and theyre extremely useless on their own, so that narrows down the potential use cases further. Its the main reason you dont use it. It is a "problem" because it doesn't get as much value from the skill for the reasons you explained yourself (thief has high mobility). Oh, thats what you meant. Yeah, basically. And shuffling a guy from your team around is too narrow usually. Iunno how Id fix it in PvP without making it broken or making thief even further locked into +1ing. Making it thief + 1 ally could work, but maybe thats just not worth doing.The way to fix it is to educate thieves in how to use it properly.

Portal > thief More like Portal > Shortbow 5 thief has portal but sind doesn't want to use it Because its only one-way, and only one person can use it. Even with the longer duration, its so much worse than the Mesmer portal, it aint even funny. 1 month ago most people would have said mes portal was bad. Thief portal is good, you heard it here first. Not really? Noone wouldve said Mesmer Portal is bad, only that Mesmer might not want to use it. Or perhaps that its not good outside of coordinated play (that much is true). But bad? Hardly. Anyway, its so limited in PvP that its really no good. I get why they limited it, but it kinda makes the skill pointless. But then again, its quite nice in WvW, sooo. But yeah, in PvP it doesnt really do enough, shuffling over one person once, with no chance of return, is just too narrow of a proposition, and usually the thief will use it themselves, and given how fast thief moves accross the map? Rather pointless. When I said bad I meant "not worth taking" and now it is suddenly the bee's knees. And the fact that thieves mostly (almost only) use it for themselves is exactly the problem. I mean, "not worth taking" also comes with conditionals. Thieves portal is basically not worth taking unconditionally. And why would the thief portaling himself be a problem? They can get accross the map extremely quickly anyway, and theyre extremely useless on their own, so that narrows down the potential use cases further. Its the main reason you dont use it.It is a "problem" because it doesn't get as much value from the skill for the reasons you explained yourself (thief has high mobility).

Portal > thief More like Portal > Shortbow 5 thief has portal but sind doesn't want to use it Because its only one-way, and only one person can use it. Even with the longer duration, its so much worse than the Mesmer portal, it aint even funny. 1 month ago most people would have said mes portal was bad. Thief portal is good, you heard it here first. Not really? Noone wouldve said Mesmer Portal is bad, only that Mesmer might not want to use it. Or perhaps that its not good outside of coordinated play (that much is true). But bad? Hardly. Anyway, its so limited in PvP that its really no good. I get why they limited it, but it kinda makes the skill pointless. But then again, its quite nice in WvW, sooo. But yeah, in PvP it doesnt really do enough, shuffling over one person once, with no chance of return, is just too narrow of a proposition, and usually the thief will use it themselves, and given how fast thief moves accross the map? Rather pointless.When I said bad I meant "not worth taking" and now it is suddenly the bee's knees. And the fact that thieves mostly (almost only) use it for themselves is exactly the problem.

Portal > thief More like Portal > Shortbow 5 thief has portal but sind doesn't want to use it Because its only one-way, and only one person can use it. Even with the longer duration, its so much worse than the Mesmer portal, it aint even funny.1 month ago most people would have said mes portal was bad. Thief portal is good, you heard it here first.

Portal > thief More like Portal > Shortbow 5thief has portal but sind doesn't want to use it

This would be a condimirage buff, imagine how easily it would be to deal with revs and thieves. Thief who is normally a mesmer counter.

revo is LIFO absorption takes resistance first interesting that the downstate knock stripped stab before the knock, didn't know that

No Powermirage is not only about sword ambush interrupts, it is also about comboing with gs and sword ambushes to prepare a burst with self buffs and debuffs of targets from might and/ or vuln stacks and weakness application and ofc you can play active with sword -IH-PB mechanic, just that most Mirages do not rly utilize any of this very well (at max the average Powermirage player spam some gs ambushes but thats it). What probably lies in the circumstances that most ppl (including you) don't even understand the active part of the IH mechanic it seems. Ofc dodge traits always have a passive part included by activating on each dodge, true, means even when the player only wants to dodge pure defensive only for the purpose of dodging an attack it will still activate the dodge reward. That doesn't change the fact, that when you design dodge rewards well, means at best not being about dmg mainly or even only (as it is on condi ambushes atm still) but more about utility effects and not being too strong (what is on condi ambushes still atm) but also not too weak so active and pure offensive dodging is rewarding and NEEDED to play the mechanic at its maximum potential, than it has a very active and high skill ceiling aspect. Anet managed to do that on power weapons (with a little need to reduce gs ambush dmg from the Mirage itself, not from the clones).You know that's exactly how the current meta build is played...An active play on a 1.5 sec animation rupt = luck because the opponent have this period to react. Basically if you do that versus boyce on war the will just stop attacking during this time.Condi ambushes do not add anything giving the need or incentive to combo them with other skills to make a good burst. That is one big difference between condi and power aside from the interrupt aspect of sword/IH/ PB which ofc also can be used very active. I have seen and met top Mirages using that active and on purpose playing far away from just some lucky random interrupts from clones when only dodging pure defensive on sword or onyl spamming some gs ambushes, so i know i am right.The problem with current condi ambush design is: no matter how good the player on Condimirage is, the whole ambush design will never give you the possibility at all to use them that active, to make tactical and well timed and different from pure defensive dodges timed outplays with ambushes (ambushes from the Mesmer itself or from clones). It is just a passive spam feast atm (even though it is that overnerfed from the one dodge change atm that Condimirage doesn't even use that mechanic anymore and goes for a mostly passive condi remove EM trait instead to compensate the overnerf in active dodge sustain).Sword ambush are exaclty the same condi or power wise, they stack vuln exactly the same and they proc their rupt trait exactly the same way.Axe ambush are less efficients than GS ambush, that's the only difference.My balance suggestion for Condi ambushes would change that, so good Mirage players will get way more reward out of using ambushes/ IH active and tactial well timed than a bad Mirage onyl lucky hit a clone ambush reward in a good moment as a passive side effect from pure defensive dodges, as it is on Condimirage still. You don't have this distinction in skill lvl between a good and a bad player on Condimirage atm. All the skill ceiling the current Condibuild has is based on core combos and avoiding Mirage specific playstyle as much as possible (aside from axe and mobility, cc from sword ambush). Using IH with current condi ambush design would still be passive and op as before because the one dodge change did not solve any issues of that mechanic.the current condibuild gameplay difference from a power version is the pewpew GS from range part.And no mobility is not the only Mirage aspect that would be a pretty poor spec design but that view probably is linked into the lack of understanding the active part of IH/ ambushes on power vs passivity on condi you don't get. Ambsuhes are supposed to play an active and important role in terms of differ the gameplay form core and even more they are important to activate the inherent costs and the opportunity costs in dodge management, what is needed to limit and balance out the strong MC feature. One reason why i said IH should be baseline (a minor trait i mean), because without that Mirage is just a core Mesmer with some passive noobcarry stuff and a way too strong instant dodge added.It is. Since PoF release, the only ambush that is different from pure damage is sword which give mobility. GS ambush were just usefull in mindless spam from range as at melee, the classic F3 before bursting give already the vuln stacks. It's been long time now that IH is just used to give illusions survival tools.Anyway i made a long post about the active-passive continuum with lot of examples. 2 different ones for you already even. If you still don't understand after reading those 2, then i don't know what to do. If this doesn't help we rly can only agree to disagree here.Maybe you should start to stop living in a unicorn world where a 1.5 sec unreliable rupt is looked at something "skilled". Or play more condi and power mirage I don't know.Am I misreading (lazy atm) or do you really think mirage thrust can't be used to purposefully interrupt things e.g. healing skills?

Except of course, other classes hit a whole lot harder. Condi builds, if you can manage to get through their cleanses, will obliterate the prot holo, and as for power builds, while none of them will exactly burst the prot holo down, they will be able to do a good chunk of damage, unlike thief. After all, thieves backstab on a squishy only hits for 6-7k. Other classes hit for far more.Thief has high survivability (hard to punish) and the the highest mobility so it does less damage.Yes, that's why I specificed "power mesmer", because as you are aware, condi damage wasn't really nerfed much in the patch (condi duration was, though). Thief doesnt really have high survivability. It has high escape ability. Id distinguish the 2, since otherwise AFK builds are the most survivable. Also I was referring to "everyone", in that context. Your post was not the one I replied to. As long as Shortbow 5 exists, that isnt an option. Thief has superior mobility, and wins by default. Problem is, shortbow 5 pretty much is thief, so you cant just nerf it. And you cant give other classes the same level of mobility, or thief overnight becomes useless (and they become broken, but I digress).Next thief espec add shield and remove weaponswap, ez solved. That was a suggestion I made before, yeah. The trouble is, Im not sure it works. Thief would need to gain a lot relatively to be a competent duelist. Especially with it losing versatility through the loss of weapon swap (and all sigils that work with it). It would also break the Quick Pockets trait (which granted, noone uses, but that is an actual problem they would need to solve). Its not entirely impossible, but Im not gonna get my hopes up for the next elite spec. There is no way to have both options. Either thief has its current superior mobility and the playstyle associated with it, or it becomes an actually competent duelist. Both causes issues. And as Ive said before, as much as I would like a duelist thief, Im not gonna take away the playstyle so many thieves do enjoy from them. Especially given that its more unique and interesting, while duelist would just be another one on the pile. Fascinating, I have never heard of diabetes being caused by complete cookie withdrawal. You might wanna submit that to a medical journal, it would certainly put a new perspective on what we know about that disease. theif will be more a dualist with more front loaded damageDoesn't work.

Except of course, other classes hit a whole lot harder. Condi builds, if you can manage to get through their cleanses, will obliterate the prot holo, and as for power builds, while none of them will exactly burst the prot holo down, they will be able to do a good chunk of damage, unlike thief. After all, thieves backstab on a squishy only hits for 6-7k. Other classes hit for far more.Thief has high survivability (hard to punish) and the the highest mobility so it does less damage.Yes, that's why I specificed "power mesmer", because as you are aware, condi damage wasn't really nerfed much in the patch (condi duration was, though). Thief doesnt really have high survivability. It has high escape ability. Id distinguish the 2, since otherwise AFK builds are the most survivable. Also I was referring to "everyone", in that context. Your post was not the one I replied to. As long as Shortbow 5 exists, that isnt an option. Thief has superior mobility, and wins by default. Problem is, shortbow 5 pretty much is thief, so you cant just nerf it. And you cant give other classes the same level of mobility, or thief overnight becomes useless (and they become broken, but I digress).Next thief espec add shield and remove weaponswap, ez solved. That was a suggestion I made before, yeah. The trouble is, Im not sure it works. Thief would need to gain a lot relatively to be a competent duelist. Especially with it losing versatility through the loss of weapon swap (and all sigils that work with it). It would also break the Quick Pockets trait (which granted, noone uses, but that is an actual problem they would need to solve). Its not entirely impossible, but Im not gonna get my hopes up for the next elite spec. There is no way to have both options. Either thief has its current superior mobility and the playstyle associated with it, or it becomes an actually competent duelist. Both causes issues. And as Ive said before, as much as I would like a duelist thief, Im not gonna take away the playstyle so many thieves do enjoy from them. Especially given that its more unique and interesting, while duelist would just be another one on the pile. Fascinating, I have never heard of diabetes being caused by complete cookie withdrawal. You might wanna submit that to a medical journal, it would certainly put a new perspective on what we know about that disease. It survives well therefore it has survivability, I am not talking about sustain. Anyway, don't reply to this bcs linguistic debates are boring. By that logic people who afk in base have maximum survivability. After all, they will always survive. Makes the term rather meaningless though, wouldnt you agree?Didn't I just tell you that linguistics is boring? Making thief fill a different role is easy enough. To do it while preserving their current role as an option is not. There are solutions, but theyre all anything but elegant, and often cause other problems.It is for Anet to solve if they wish.

No Powermirage is not only about sword ambush interrupts, it is also about comboing with gs and sword ambushes to prepare a burst with self buffs and debuffs of targets from might and/ or vuln stacks and weakness application and ofc you can play active with sword -IH-PB mechanic, just that most Mirages do not rly utilize any of this very well (at max the average Powermirage player spam some gs ambushes but thats it). What probably lies in the circumstances that most ppl (including you) don't even understand the active part of the IH mechanic it seems. Ofc dodge traits always have a passive part included by activating on each dodge, true, means even when the player only wants to dodge pure defensive only for the purpose of dodging an attack it will still activate the dodge reward. That doesn't change the fact, that when you design dodge rewards well, means at best not being about dmg mainly or even only (as it is on condi ambushes atm still) but more about utility effects and not being too strong (what is on condi ambushes still atm) but also not too weak so active and pure offensive dodging is rewarding and NEEDED to play the mechanic at its maximum potential, than it has a very active and high skill ceiling aspect. Anet managed to do that on power weapons (with a little need to reduce gs ambush dmg from the Mirage itself, not from the clones). Condi ambushes do not add anything giving the need or incentive to combo them with other skills to make a good burst. That is one big difference between condi and power aside from the interrupt aspect of sword/IH/ PB which ofc also can be used very active. I have seen and met top Mirages using that active and on purpose playing far away from just some lucky random interrupts from clones when only dodging pure defensive on sword or onyl spamming some gs ambushes, so i know i am right. The problem with current condi ambush design is: no matter how good the player on Condimirage is, the whole ambush design will never give you the possibility at all to use them that active, to make tactical and well timed and different from pure defensive dodges timed outplays with ambushes (ambushes from the Mesmer itself or from clones). It is just a passive spam feast atm (even though it is that overnerfed from the one dodge change atm that Condimirage doesn't even use that mechanic anymore and goes for a mostly passive condi remove EM trait instead to compensate the overnerf in active dodge sustain). My balance suggestion for Condi ambushes would change that, so good Mirage players will get way more reward out of using ambushes/ IH active and tactial well timed than a bad Mirage onyl lucky hit a clone ambush reward in a good moment as a passive side effect from pure defensive dodges, as it is on Condimirage still. You don't have this distinction in skill lvl between a good and a bad player on Condimirage atm. All the skill ceiling the current Condibuild has is based on core combos and avoiding Mirage specific playstyle as much as possible (aside from axe and mobility, cc from sword ambush). Using IH with current condi ambush design would still be passive and op as before because the one dodge change did not solve any issues of that mechanic. And no mobility is not the only Mirage aspect that would be a pretty poor spec design but that view probably is linked into the lack of understanding the active part of IH/ ambushes on power vs passivity on condi you don't get. Ambsuhes are supposed to play an active and important role in terms of differ the gameplay form core and even more they are important to activate the inherent costs and the opportunity costs in dodge management, what is needed to limit and balance out the strong MC feature. One reason why i said IH should be baseline (a minor trait i mean), because without that Mirage is just a core Mesmer with some passive noobcarry stuff and a way too strong instant dodge added.Anyway i made a long post about the active-passive continuum with lot of examples. 2 different ones for you already even. If you still don't understand after reading those 2, then i don't know what to do. If this doesn't help we rly can only agree to disagree here. Make a thread "Remove Shortbow 5" AFAIK, mirage was supposed to be a duelist thief. Mesmer was supposed to be a duelist, it is in their core description. The mobility part was not. Chop at mobility and beef up dueling. Just as all classes also Mesmer and Mirage is supposed to have different playstyles (for example Guards can be supporter but also teamfight-/ roational dmg dealer). Just that Anet seems to favor the more braindead condi playstyles for Mesmer. Like pressuring Mirage into condi while IH and ambushes on power are way better and healthier and higher skill ceiling designed. If Anet wants to pressure and limit Mesmer or Mirage into only one playstyle than it should be rotational power, because that is clearly the healthiest, best balanced and hardest to play, fairest and the least annoying to deal with as an opponent. Sadly Anet does quite the opposite and kills Powerbuilds on Mesmer as if they are not relevant in their world at all and that for the sake of nerfing an in general low skill ceiling condi playstyle to fit an equally braindead meta (while not even solving the balance issues of the one op playstyle at all). The game would be so much better if just everything else (every build on Mesmer and every other class) would be balanced down to the skill requirement lvl and power lvl of a post patch (but with 2 dodges) Powermesmer/mirage. That would be a meta i would enjoy on all classes. Sadly all low skilled casuals and all the wannabe good special snowflakes with more ego than skill would probably leave the game then, when they can't find anything to carry their low skill anymore. Carefull with what you write because spamming GS ambush is in no way more skillfull than spamming axe ambush and in regards to condibursting with torch + shatter versus power bursting with torch + shatter, it's exactly the same, you just replace F2 by F1. Mean the current (hybrid)condi meta build is even more skillfull than the old power mirage style considering it's all melee and it's not based on a 100% F3 stun with old CS like most power build were. The curreent meta build doesn't rly use axe ambush because axe ambushes do not rly add anything. There is no value in making your condi burst more predictable by adding an axe ambush before the torch burst. There is no need to combo with axe ambush. Means no skill ceiling added by that. It is more a torch out of stealth burst. It is not a Mirage specific burst, it is pretty core based playstyle avoiding most Mirage mechanics would add active combo requirement and skill ceiling. Not to mention that gs has an overall way higher skill ceiling than axe even though the gs autoattack has a higher range, so you are not correct in my opinion. But i am certain we will disagree here until world ends though lets just agree to disagree over that xD The only ambush gets used in this condi build is sword for some cc/boonrip and mobility. Also as i mentioned in other posts already a Powermirage build rewards gs ambush spam too much is not what we want either. Balance changes i would do based on giving Mirage 2 dodges back are:The direct dmg from the Mesmers own gs ambush should be reduced and the might/vuln stacks should be reduced a very little bit too (less than the direct dmg and not that much, that offensive dodging gets worthless). Illusionary ambush (actually the whole retargeting mechanic, means for axe 3 only an evade and port to target but no retargeting anymore) should be deleted completely actually, what ofc will not happen. At least IA should get a 50+s cd. Signet of Illusion should not include the reset of f4 anymore, not only because of Mirage (what clearly has the best synergy to it) but because it is in general too strong, also on core, to have an utility literally half the cd of an complete invuln skill. It should have excluded f4 since game release. Condi ambushes should get reworked to not add remarkable condi dmg anymore instead should be more about utility effects the player needs to time well and different from pure defensive dodges to get enough reward out of them. I already made suggestions for how to rework condi ambushes, i will not add it here again (if wanted i will search my comments and copy paste those later?) A Mirage not timing ambush rewards (from his own but also clone ambushes with IH) for active and tactical outplays well, should have less impact than a core Mesmer, that counts for power and condi style. Normal clone autoattacks should lose all condi dmg (except for one pseudo hit like on power weapons). If needed you can move some of the lost condi dmg back to shatters again. IH should be considered to be baseline, a Mirage without IH feels like a core with only some passive mistake cover and a too strong instant dodge added. Without IH there is barely any skill ceiling added to the spec balance out the strong features the spec has from MC. Major GM traits should be reworked based on IH being baseline (i made some suggestion for how GM traits could look like then, i will not add it again, if someone insist i would search and copy paste my old posts here).Mantra of Pain should be reworked to a non dmg Mantra (means rly zero dmg). The best way would be to turn it into a boon remove or other utility Mantra instead the selfbuff for oneshots nature it still has. The face your target requirement from Mantras can be deleted after that (ofc Mantras still should not hit when obstructed). That would be the ideal way to balance Mirage to a balanced post patch state lvl but without killing skill ceiling (even adding tons of it) and without contradicting the inherent costs the spec has implemented since game pof release. Without dumbing down the general dodgemanagement by only one dodge bar forcing to spam dodges on cd and without contradicting the whole spec mechanic and doom it to be more passive than before on power and just as passive as before on condi. According to Anet not having the ressources to add that much effort and work into good balance you just can ignore Nr. 6 if too much work (but EM should be reduced to only one condi remove instead 2 when Mirage has 2 dodges again). Reworking condi ambushes meanwhile is rly not that much of work and every condi dmg it loses can be compensated by number tweaks in PvE to make it not useless for PvE content with too less dmg. Stuff like that scepter only hits one time instead giving multiple hits aside from deleting most if not all of its condi dmg and add no-dmg-conditions instead. When did I said that axe ambush is a thing ?You say that power ambush are more skilled than the condi versions. I just write to you that it's not the case. GS is a weapon who come with no sustain skills in it. When you look at meta weapon, most of them has a last 1 skill to sustain or they give sustain by class mechanics (nec.). Even longbow ranger have stealth. This alone explain why power mesmer is so hard to make it work because you are facing class who has at least weapons with 1 tempo skill on each weapon swap. Skill has nothing to do there it's pure viability. Just compare it to other class similar weapons used in meta, you should see that they all give not only damage or they give sustain by class mechanics (the evade on war GS explain at 50% why it's a meta weapon for ages, the other 50% is the mobility.).Added to that, dev has to balanced mesmers taking into account that they can have 2 weapon set with evade frame on it, so they can't balance a spec who can sustain well with GS by not making an op survival if mesmer take other weapons.If tomorrow they put a 0.45 sec block on mind stab for example like whirlwind attack but being static during the evade, you should see more GS uses.It's mirage independant yes but it explain imo much things.It's not a disagree discussion, you assert false things. I don't react every posts you defends your "skills" visions but here it's just no true, even taking apart the subjective part. The current condi burst combo is :Torch 4 -> blink/jaunt-> sword3 (-> sword ambush) -> torch 5 + F2. Then you can follow with axe swap -> 5 pistol -> 2 axes -> 3 axes (with a f3 rupt during the cycle to rupt/prevent opponent to heal/clear.).The historic power burst combo is :Torch -> 2GS -> blink/jaunt -> F3 -> F1. Then you can follow with sword swap -> 3 sword -> 2 sword -> sword autos (with sword ambush during the ccle to rupt/prevent opponent to heal.). With of course rotations adapted to opponents/situation. So no the power version is clearly not skilled++ compared to the condi version on top of that you can pressure from range during no burst phases which is not possible with a full melee condi build. Agreed about detargeting mechanics that should be removed : It's confusing to new players and make they hate illusions more than before.it's unefficient versus good players.it's unusefull versus aoe spam in general. About axe 3 they could start to make it reliable because it's countered by just moving... Imagine a gard's leap of faith failed because the opponent is moving... Solllusion should conserve the F4 reset as long as there is one dodge because all current mirage survival is based on this. Dunno why you think mirage has synergy with it, it's not different from core synergy. It should also give the +50% hp on illusions back if we want to make chrono viable or give a similar trait in chrono. Not condi ambush but clone auto shouldn't output any condi to be on par with direct damage. They should do this in 2015 instead of removing clones on death traits.Last condi mirage meta build before the last rework was about letting clone autoing, not even ambush. IH wasn't used to ambush but to save clones from AOE last season.Condi ambush should do condi damage the same power ambush should do power damage, particulary considering the obvious animation on thoses. Why mirage is played is : Mobility : sword ambush, jaunt. Renforced by the 50% nerf on core manipulation superspeed.Condi clear : EM, jaunt. It's the mesmer spec who give the most mobility & survavibility which is what is needed as long as mesmer role is map control around portal.Meanwhile an equivalent core spec would drop damage and mobility if taking inspiration thanks to inspiration condi clear counterpart = if you condi clear with shatter, you can't burst. Or drop condiclear and mobility if taking chaos or duelling. (Which is also why I disagree about you opinion on inspiration and chaos being more carry line than mirage.) The Condimirage build has a similar base combo than a core shatter played without gs true (except of the axe it is more a core build anyway, Mirage mostly only adds some passive sustain and more mobility but nothing that would turn it into a Mirage specific playstyle) it is totally different to a Powermirage played on max potential using the IH/ambush mechanic active to combo as it should be. My balance suggestion would give Condimirage a more interesting, more skilled, more active way of playing, in particular skilled Mesmer player should be happy about to get. It's exactly the same currently as powermirage played at max potential : you use sword ambush exactly the same as you would for power mirage. Even the rupt part who is core based btw is used the same in one case to boonrip, in the other case to PB. The only differences gameplay wise is that powermirage can be played at range during no-burst times which is also true for rupt whereas condimirage is all about melee.The mobility is the mirage defining playstyle which is globally the same condi or power. What make mirage different from core is the mobility.If you think ambush played at his max potential is all around sword rupt, you are dreaming. A 1.5 sec animation rupt will never be active play.That bold parts, I told him that alrdy before. Power mirage spammnig ambush is no different and by far equally braindead/unskilled as condi mirage, especially these random clones on sword randomly proc'ing power block, as you noticed, thats random interrupt on clones, MIRAGE THRURST has trouble hitting its target most of times even, add to this latency and you cant even use it right away but after a short delay.Thats a facepalm tbh When you get random interupted on heal from a Mirage that is dodging defensive or for leaping away while you know and can even see the slow and well animated clone leap than it is your missplay. You literally even can just out move that leap if you need to use your heal so badly in exactly that moment. As said ofc every dodge trait has an passive aspect of activating also when the player is just dodging to avoid an attack and doesn't think about an well timed and tactical outplay move during that. But the difference between power and condi is, that you at least CAN use that mechanic active while condi ambushes don't give the possibility nor the incentive to use that active. Powermirage even is in NEED to combo with ambushes from sword and gs (not only for interrupt purposes, it is needed for the whole dmg application, Powermriage needs to combo with ambushes, just as it should be, while Condimirage can just dodge pure defensive and hope for some passive dmg application from clones during that). If you as Mesmer mains cannot see such simple logical and obvious stuff than it is rly not my problem. But i am not surpised why most ppl suck on Powermirage anymore. so what would you change condi ambushes to? As said they should be less about dmg more about effects/ utility giving incentive and the need to time them different from pure defensive dodges to make tactical active on purpose outplays possible and needed to play it at maximum potential. Sword and GS are good examples for that (with gs needing a little nerf to the Mesmers own gs ambush dmg). There are different possibilities. Scepter should be changed in general to have only one hit, not mulitple projectiles. Instead dmg it could provide a 1/2 sec immob on an well animated projectile with balanced travel speed and cast time (comparable to Engi rifle immob skill), while clones get a weaker version of 1/4 or 1/8 immob on hit. That can be comboed before going for a scepter 3 cast to secure it will hit a good part of the cast before the target can dodge without using a condi remove. It would fit to the weaponstyle and give incentives to combo with other weapon- and shatter skills. Another possibility would be chill or cripple (here maybe with a bit of condi dmg on the Mesmers own ambush in addition because those 2 utlitiy condis are weaker than immob).Axe could get a boni to condition dmg stat for x seconds (not too long, comparable to the might/ vulnstack duration on gs, means short only to prepare a burst not to make a perma debuff that would be passive again), aside from a low dmg application on the Mesmers own ambush, while clones get the weaker version of only stacking condi dmg stat boni (no condi application by themself) for a short duration. That would give the incentive and need to combo ambushes to prepare an axe 3 shatter burst. Other posibility would be to add a more utilitiy based non dmg condi just like i descibed for scepter before.Staff ambush could get a boni in terms of condition duration for x seconds (weaker version on clones, no dmg on clones) on the ambush aside from a low dmg application only on the Mesmers ambush. Alternative adding a non dmg utility condition that fits the staff playstyle. good suggestions, i would have utility/defense on staff like a reflect or smthng.

Except of course, other classes hit a whole lot harder. Condi builds, if you can manage to get through their cleanses, will obliterate the prot holo, and as for power builds, while none of them will exactly burst the prot holo down, they will be able to do a good chunk of damage, unlike thief. After all, thieves backstab on a squishy only hits for 6-7k. Other classes hit for far more.Thief has high survivability (hard to punish) and the the highest mobility so it does less damage.Yes, that's why I specificed "power mesmer", because as you are aware, condi damage wasn't really nerfed much in the patch (condi duration was, though). Thief doesnt really have high survivability. It has high escape ability. Id distinguish the 2, since otherwise AFK builds are the most survivable. Also I was referring to "everyone", in that context. Your post was not the one I replied to. As long as Shortbow 5 exists, that isnt an option. Thief has superior mobility, and wins by default. Problem is, shortbow 5 pretty much is thief, so you cant just nerf it. And you cant give other classes the same level of mobility, or thief overnight becomes useless (and they become broken, but I digress).Next thief espec add shield and remove weaponswap, ez solved. That was a suggestion I made before, yeah. The trouble is, Im not sure it works. Thief would need to gain a lot relatively to be a competent duelist. Especially with it losing versatility through the loss of weapon swap (and all sigils that work with it). It would also break the Quick Pockets trait (which granted, noone uses, but that is an actual problem they would need to solve). Its not entirely impossible, but Im not gonna get my hopes up for the next elite spec. There is no way to have both options. Either thief has its current superior mobility and the playstyle associated with it, or it becomes an actually competent duelist. Both causes issues. And as Ive said before, as much as I would like a duelist thief, Im not gonna take away the playstyle so many thieves do enjoy from them. Especially given that its more unique and interesting, while duelist would just be another one on the pile. Fascinating, I have never heard of diabetes being caused by complete cookie withdrawal. You might wanna submit that to a medical journal, it would certainly put a new perspective on what we know about that disease.It survives well therefore it has survivability, I am not talking about sustain. Anyway, don't reply to this bcs linguistic debates are boring. Yes, I don't know personally how to make thief fill a diff role (and it is not my job to come up with) or even if it would be desirable but if there is a will there's a way.

Except of course, other classes hit a whole lot harder. Condi builds, if you can manage to get through their cleanses, will obliterate the prot holo, and as for power builds, while none of them will exactly burst the prot holo down, they will be able to do a good chunk of damage, unlike thief. After all, thieves backstab on a squishy only hits for 6-7k. Other classes hit for far more.Thief has high survivability (hard to punish) and the the highest mobility so it does less damage.Yes, that's why I specificed "power mesmer", because as you are aware, condi damage wasn't really nerfed much in the patch (condi duration was, though). As long as Shortbow 5 exists, that isnt an option. Thief has superior mobility, and wins by default. Problem is, shortbow 5 pretty much is thief, so you cant just nerf it. And you cant give other classes the same level of mobility, or thief overnight becomes useless (and they become broken, but I digress).Next thief espec add shield, make steal melee aoe and remove weaponswap, ez solved. There is no way to have both options. Either thief has its current superior mobility and the playstyle associated with it, or it becomes an actually competent duelist. Both causes issues. And as Ive said before, as much as I would like a duelist thief, Im not gonna take away the playstyle so many thieves do enjoy from them. Especially given that its more unique and interesting, while duelist would just be another one on the pile. Fascinating, I have never heard of diabetes being caused by complete cookie withdrawal. You might wanna submit that to a medical journal, it would certainly put a new perspective on what we know about that disease. Zzzz