Quadox.7834

Delete all sigils and runes ---- who needs build diversity anyway? Strawman, I don't want all sigils removed just energy.

Yes it had to go. And I think energy should as well.

cmirage. maybe power depending on how the new traits work etc.

Please can we get smoke screen on mesmer as well instead of feedback pleasepleasepleaseplease.

That's why I'm not saying "cooldowns are bad" but that cooldowns aren't always correlated to good balance or promotion of non-buttonmashing gameplay. Rather, it's how the ability and the game that it's in works is what matters most. Deciding whether a skill is spammy or not is based on a far more complex model than "JuSt cHanGE tEh COoLDowNz AnD it WilL aLL bE FInE!" For instance, say they leave Stability on stance gain on Weaver and reduce the count charge on twist of fate to 1 second. Well, of course that would be ridiculous because it would allow weaver to have perma evade+perma CC immunity with one skill. Such a thing would indeed increase the spam from Weaver, because it would have little to no risk involved for any skill usage. There would be very few ways to punish Weavers for making mistakes. But on the flip side, say you nerfed the cooldown of every Warrior defensive skill to 10 minutes. The class would immediately become useless, because all you would have to do is pressure the Warrior until they ran out of their limited supply, and then you could just buttonmash whatever offense skill of your choice in their general direction until the warrior dies which wouldn't take long with 0 defenses. So in this case, increasing CDs increased the spam. There would be very few ways for Warriors to punish OTHER classes mistakes. My point is more or less than counterplay and interaction is a much more complex issue. Globally increasing the CDs of random skills is basically a total crapshoot because when it comes down to it CDs have nothing to do with what the skill does while the skill is actually being activated. So CD increases may help. CD increases may do nothing. And CD increases can also make the problem worse. Yes I can generally agree with that, but I don't think this patch really does increase cooldowns that much aside from stunbreaks. I.e. it's not that much of a problem (yet at least).

Never attrbute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence. Its not about incompetence, its way past that.Its flawed mentality, remember IoL nerf? first thing they wanted to do was nerf it by 60%, becouse its mesmer. If that was any other class it would not even get touched becouse " nobody uses it "The more I read the patch the more I realised that all they did was blanked nerf of 30%. And then just overnerfed whatever people complained in their posts.shadowsomething whine on sharper immages so it was nerfed by 95%someone whine on ToF alot so it got almost double the CD while other skills got 5s extra CD lol.PW thief whine and behold extra 1 ini cost, but they forgot to nerf S/D thiefs 3 skill and many other thief skills.Thief did get off easy but the devs don't hate mesmer, it has been meta for much of the game's lifespan. Though classes with AI such as mesmer are hard to balance (not just in gw).

Never attrbute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence.

You are probably right about the cooldown thing execept I don't think they really increased cooldowns all that much actually, with a few exceptions (certain stunbreak skills). To continue the comparision to street figther, how would that game be if characters had stunbreaks/combo.escapes every 15-30 seconds? In some cases they decreased the cooldown and nerfed the skill, such as gravity well, thereby following your philosophy.

Core would probably still run an oldschool Shatter build. They still use Mantra of Distraction often for Power Locking when they setup their burst window. Love how the game is regressing. Stun is an essential part of burst, while dazed you can still dodge.No stun means no power shatter. Even at the times before gs power shatter was a thing, people would rely on CSed f3 to land a burst. That's not true, power core shatter was meta before CS was added to the game. I don't know if something played by only 3 mesmers who need their team (hudge teamplay) to babysit them can be call meta.Vanilla mesmer wasn't meta as a class in PvP. yes it was No it wasn't.The condi clone spammer were more efficient in unorganized play and the build your are talking about was just about portal play and free food for thieves if the team didn't assist it.Don't prettify what was vanilla mes please. The only mode were it can do something was wvw roaming. Apart being a veil bot in bus. And even here the power shatter was just for the vids as there were more efficient play.Mean it's not because this forum was gangrened with shatter mafia that it reflect what happened in game. before gs/staff and gs/sword mesmer was meta with staff/sword and it was fine. But IIRC people have argued with you about this before so I don't feel like trying to convince you. I was talking about the staff/sword build too as I was thinking that what you are talking about.You should argue because we can look at tournament class ratio, number of videos with this build if you want, the prove should come fast : mesmers playing 5v5 tournaments were rare and hugdly babysitted by their teams. 80% of old mesmers vids were about WvW roaming (again the only mode where mesmers were viable.). Power shatter with IP was mainly played on the mesmer forum (by the "skilled mafia".), barely in game. Gs/staff and gs/swordtorch were the builds that were hardcountered by thief, staff/sword wasn't that bad. It was fine, it was core mes, and it was meta - undeniably so. And condi mes was mostly just "good" when it had broken OP stuff like debilitating dissipation. Debilitating dissipation was a fine trait and one of the most true mesmerish traits (read that as a GW1 mesmer type of choice in which you get losing both ways) there was, "should I kill the clones to prevent a shatter even if they hurt me or don't get any damage and risk a shatter?". The only thing it needed was the overwrite explosion gone. They shouldn't cut a third of mesmer core mechanics. I totally agree.Here we go again, this retarded nonsense "A tHirD oF mESmR mEcHAniCS".

Core would probably still run an oldschool Shatter build. They still use Mantra of Distraction often for Power Locking when they setup their burst window. Love how the game is regressing. Stun is an essential part of burst, while dazed you can still dodge.No stun means no power shatter. Even at the times before gs power shatter was a thing, people would rely on CSed f3 to land a burst. That's not true, power core shatter was meta before CS was added to the game. I don't know if something played by only 3 mesmers who need their team (hudge teamplay) to babysit them can be call meta.Vanilla mesmer wasn't meta as a class in PvP. yes it was No it wasn't.The condi clone spammer were more efficient in unorganized play and the build your are talking about was just about portal play and free food for thieves if the team didn't assist it.Don't prettify what was vanilla mes please. The only mode were it can do something was wvw roaming. Apart being a veil bot in bus. And even here the power shatter was just for the vids as there were more efficient play.Mean it's not because this forum was gangrened with shatter mafia that it reflect what happened in game. before gs/staff and gs/sword mesmer was meta with staff/sword and it was fine. But IIRC people have argued with you about this before so I don't feel like trying to convince you. I was talking about the staff/sword build too as I was thinking that what you are talking about.You should argue because we can look at tournament class ratio, number of videos with this build if you want, the prove should come fast : mesmers playing 5v5 tournaments were rare and hugdly babysitted by their teams. 80% of old mesmers vids were about WvW roaming (again the only mode where mesmers were viable.). Power shatter with IP was mainly played on the mesmer forum (by the "skilled mafia".), barely in game. Gs/staff and gs/swordtorch were the builds that were hardcountered by thief, staff/sword wasn't that bad. It was fine, it was core mes, and it was meta - undeniably so. And condi mes was mostly just "good" when it had broken OP stuff like debilitating dissipation. Mesmer wasn't meta in PvP... something played only by few pro players (who rerolled thieves back in times for most of them.) Can't be call meta.And staff sword build lack too many tools, particulary chasing and range pressure on open field WvW.Mean go on old forum archive vids thread. Find me a vid of power shatter in PvP.You like the build didn't make it more meta.You are simply W R O N G. Why would I go watch forum archive videos when I can watch ESL cups and tournaments?

Weakness it definitely very strong, just like chill it is basically two condis in one.

Core would probably still run an oldschool Shatter build. They still use Mantra of Distraction often for Power Locking when they setup their burst window. Love how the game is regressing. Stun is an essential part of burst, while dazed you can still dodge.No stun means no power shatter. Even at the times before gs power shatter was a thing, people would rely on CSed f3 to land a burst. That's not true, power core shatter was meta before CS was added to the game. I don't know if something played by only 3 mesmers who need their team (hudge teamplay) to babysit them can be call meta.Vanilla mesmer wasn't meta as a class in PvP. yes it was No it wasn't.The condi clone spammer were more efficient in unorganized play and the build your are talking about was just about portal play and free food for thieves if the team didn't assist it.Don't prettify what was vanilla mes please. The only mode were it can do something was wvw roaming. Apart being a veil bot in bus. And even here the power shatter was just for the vids as there were more efficient play.Mean it's not because this forum was gangrened with shatter mafia that it reflect what happened in game. before gs/staff and gs/sword mesmer was meta with staff/sword and it was fine. But IIRC people have argued with you about this before so I don't feel like trying to convince you. I was talking about the staff/sword build too as I was thinking that what you are talking about.You should argue because we can look at tournament class ratio, number of videos with this build if you want, the prove should come fast : mesmers playing 5v5 tournaments were rare and hugdly babysitted by their teams. 80% of old mesmers vids were about WvW roaming (again the only mode where mesmers were viable.). Power shatter with IP was mainly played on the mesmer forum (by the "skilled mafia".), barely in game.Gs/staff and gs/swordtorch were the builds that were hardcountered by thief, staff/sword wasn't that bad. It was fine, it was core mes, and it was meta - undeniably so. And condi mes was mostly just "good" when it had broken OP stuff like debilitating dissipation.

Core would probably still run an oldschool Shatter build. They still use Mantra of Distraction often for Power Locking when they setup their burst window. Love how the game is regressing. Stun is an essential part of burst, while dazed you can still dodge.No stun means no power shatter. Even at the times before gs power shatter was a thing, people would rely on CSed f3 to land a burst. That's not true, power core shatter was meta before CS was added to the game. I don't know if something played by only 3 mesmers who need their team (hudge teamplay) to babysit them can be call meta.Vanilla mesmer wasn't meta as a class in PvP. yes it was No it wasn't.The condi clone spammer were more efficient in unorganized play and the build your are talking about was just about portal play and free food for thieves if the team didn't assist it.Don't prettify what was vanilla mes please. The only mode were it can do something was wvw roaming. Apart being a veil bot in bus. And even here the power shatter was just for the vids as there were more efficient play.Mean it's not because this forum was gangrened with shatter mafia that it reflect what happened in game.before gs/staff and gs/sword mesmer was meta with staff/sword and it was fine. But IIRC people have argued with you about this before so I don't feel like trying to convince you.

Will have to go illusions and.equip torch

But does hammer need so many CCs? Cant we change hanmer 4 to a spin that does damage (similar to scrapper hammer 2) and gives protection for successful hit? Or something.

Core would probably still run an oldschool Shatter build. They still use Mantra of Distraction often for Power Locking when they setup their burst window. Love how the game is regressing. Stun is an essential part of burst, while dazed you can still dodge.No stun means no power shatter. Even at the times before gs power shatter was a thing, people would rely on CSed f3 to land a burst. That's not true, power core shatter was meta before CS was added to the game. I don't know if something played by only 3 mesmers who need their team (hudge teamplay) to babysit them can be call meta.Vanilla mesmer wasn't meta as a class in PvP.yes it was

Core would probably still run an oldschool Shatter build. They still use Mantra of Distraction often for Power Locking when they setup their burst window. Love how the game is regressing. Stun is an essential part of burst, while dazed you can still dodge.No stun means no power shatter. Even at the times before gs power shatter was a thing, people would rely on CSed f3 to land a burst. That's not true, power core shatter was meta before CS was added to the game. CS is on game since release. Sorry you are right, I meant that core shatter was meta without CS. 20/20/0/0/30 Which traits were chosen? I remember invigoration, IP, deceptive evasion, then I'm missing one on illusions and one on dom. lets see: halting strike (interrupt dmg), shattered concentration, phantasmal fury, deceptive evasion, masterful reflection (reflect on distortion), illusionary elasticity (extra bounce), illusionary persona. instead of reflect on distortion you could also pick precise wrack (+mindwrack critchance) or compounding power (+3% dmg for each illusion). most did this. on sword you swap halting strike for mental torment (+mindwrack dmg), illusionary elasticity for illusionary invigoration (recharge all shatters at 50% hp) and phantasmal fury for blade training (+precision for sword). I wanna go back

Core would probably still run an oldschool Shatter build. They still use Mantra of Distraction often for Power Locking when they setup their burst window. Love how the game is regressing. Stun is an essential part of burst, while dazed you can still dodge.No stun means no power shatter. Even at the times before gs power shatter was a thing, people would rely on CSed f3 to land a burst. That's not true, power core shatter was meta before CS was added to the game. CS is on game since release.Sorry you are right, I meant that core shatter was meta without CS. 20/20/0/0/30

Could be tried for a week in unranked buy otherwise no

Core would probably still run an oldschool Shatter build. They still use Mantra of Distraction often for Power Locking when they setup their burst window. Love how the game is regressing. Stun is an essential part of burst, while dazed you can still dodge.No stun means no power shatter. Even at the times before gs power shatter was a thing, people would rely on CSed f3 to land a burst. That's not true, power core shatter was meta before CS was added to the game.

Not sure about Thief being too strong, but rather more worried about how messed up they are gonna make the traitlines.Alot of the new Traits are placed in positions which directly conflict with alot of builds which wanna pick specific trait combos. This alone will break alot of builds, forcing them to pick other, less powerful options and to totally change up their playstyle. (which defeats the entire purpose of builds)And usually, Chrono Shatter is way better, but Chrono has their Invul removed and base Illusionary Persona removed so there's that to consider. I'm curious to see if Bunker Condi Chrono will start making an appearance since TTK is increased they could actually maybe survive long term skirmishes. Like for example a Condi Chrono with Sword/Shield or Pistol, Sceptre/Torch could be pretty funny to play. What im saying is, why would you ever pick core power over thief. It doesnt even have portal anymore.

Core would probably still run an oldschool Shatter build. They still use Mantra of Distraction often for Power Locking when they setup their burst window. Love how the game is regressing. I would love if I could play oldschool, maybe even gs/staff but I doubt it, too low damage and thief is too strong.

You could play torch instead of pistol

Dont see how core power would work. No stun no mantra. Core condi, maybe.

Agree nerf downed skills