AliamRationem.5172

It's the perfect time to come back! There is a ton of stuff to catch up on and by the time you do, we'll probably have a new expansion to play with! PvE seems in pretty good shape right now. Open world is active and the storyline is ongoing. Development of new content is slower than most would like (when is that not the case, though?), but there is plenty there to keep a returning player busy. This year they released a bunch of mini raid-type content they call strike missions. They just released a new fractal, too. If you haven't played since 2013, get ready to see the game like you've never seen it before! PvP/WvW are neglected. PvP population is low and it's a very visible problem. Regular balance patches were promised, but ANet appears to have completely abandoned that plan. So, basically what they've been doing for years! Good job, team! On a positive note, if you can get past the poor balance, lack of game modes, stale meta and awful matchmaking, the combat is still pretty top notch.

Again, an unfounded un-backed claim. Adding or taking away moves in chess doesn't make the game better or worse. It either makes the game either simpler, or more complex. Complexity, is not synonymous with being worse...in fact complexity i would argue is more beautiful than simplicity. But the two aren't really meant to be compared...there is a beauty in simplicity and a beauty in complexity that should both be appreciated. If you did the research, you would find this information relevant when discussing two completely different games. It's subjective, but not necessarily unfounded. His point was that attempting to accommodate endless complexity does not necessarily improve the result. This is objectively true. Logically, there are limits to the degree of complexity our minds are capable of. Naturally, this limit is different according to the individual's ability/preference. Chess happens to be a good example of this because the number of permutations involved in predicting outcomes in this game already go far beyond what human minds are capable of. Adding complexity could improve the game, but it's as plausible to assume that it would simply muddy the waters. The devil is in the details. And so it is with GW2 PvP balance. How would this miracle be achieved such that you don't end up just trading one build for another in the meta?

I think you're better off with cmirage, honestly. It's really the strongest option for solo PvE. It has good enough area burst that trash clearing isn't painful and solid damage in longer fights. But the real magic is that it's one of the most effortlessly survivable builds you can play for open world/story content. If you want a "solo everything" build, cmirage is top tier!

Toughness, vitality and healing power in open world are wasted stats. 14k hp is already enough health. just run full viper and rely on evades and clones, you can run staff and axe/torch-pistol. And if you keep dying it means you are doing something not meant to be soloed. That is just flat out wrong. No idea why you would even say that. Yes Viper does more damage, but Trailblazer Mirage with Staff is unkillable. I'm currently using Exotic Trailblazer Armor and only 1 ascended trinket, rest is still dire. On Trash I use Axe/Torch and literally can't die because of Tormenting Runes. For anything tough I switch to Staff. I felt pretty squishy before using this build in some situations, now I only go down if I mess up badly or if I'm just surrounded by ranged mobs. I've been using this build http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PiwAc+ZlRwQYSMMmJW0P6vOA-zRJYkRHfZkTKkZF49sUl0G-e If someone just wants to do Solo Open World content without dying this is 100% the build to go for. It is very forgiving in most content. If you're in a zerg or meta-farm group, just swap out Axe/Torch for a GS with a Superior Sigil of Stamins, press V every 2 seconds and spam skill 1 to tag mobs. That fixes any issues one might have with tagging mobs in large zergs.In solo play you can't play fully offensive the way you can with support. Passive defense stats allow players to play more aggressively. For this reason, builds with exceptional sustain and weak power contribution (such as cmirage) can actually produce better damage in solo play by dropping power stats in favor of passive defense. For example, I can defeat the mushroom queen hero challenge in Tangled Depths in either viper or trailblazer stats using axe/torch staff cmirage, but because I can spend a lot more time dealing damage in axe rather than kiting with staff in the tankier Trailblazer stats, I actually complete the challenge in less time this way. Not to mention having a much cleaner kill!

I don't know about this, data shows that you retain up to 80% effectiveness with 600 Healing Power, which is why its such a common number. Like all stat scalings except Power it has diminishing returns the higher it goes. The only reason Power doesn't have dimishing returns is it explodes exponentially with Precision & Ferocity. @ OP:I run Harrier's armor & weapons with Seraph's trinkets on Rev. It works better than you'd think, her stats come out very similar to her full Viper's set except a bit lower Power and alot lower Condition Damage, but still high enough to matter. It can have ~98% crit rate so permanent 160% damage from just the base Ferocity + Kalla's Fervor. Note that Renegade works better than Herald here; you can't beat permanent 25 Might, Alacrity and Protection. Plus Renegade group heals are far stronger than Herald due to life siphoning, while Herald has almost no ally heals. The Protection also provides about the same amount of defense you'd get with Toughness & Vitality. You can't really compare healing power to power though, they function for entirely different purposes. Especially with modifiers in play. I've never tried revenant with the 600-700 range without modifiers and I do know it has the highest capacity for heals so it may be different - however I main a healer and have used different stat combinations across many classes. A few things to note: I approach the build being a high end PvE and PvP player, and for open world I guess in general you can almost make anything work. I could put together a build with no traitlines and one piece of different gear in each slot and find some success. I was just offering a suggestion which would be more impactful based on what he originally said he wanted. So I looked at it in perhaps the wrong angle. Since I glanced at the build from that perspective a few things I looked at were high Crit chance with no investment in power OR any application of conditions on Crit. Hammer being used as a weapon, where staff would be a better choice. Low healing power which would be ineffective for allied support. Some positives in it, good cushion for damage with a high amount of direct condition damage. Also when it comes to boon duration and condition duration I aim for a breakpoint that affects the build with a goal in mind (random example: adding in 15.45% condition duration just enough to make specific ticks go from 1.25secs to 1.5. real example: using 82.67% boon duration to be able to upkeep permanent quickness on firebrand with the most variety of build options). That however is countered by the fact it has low application of conditions.I just wanted to share this bit from the wiki that might be helpful when it comes to the fine tuning: While the actual duration of a condition is never rounded, the display in a skill's tooltip will show the duration rounded to the nearest quarter of a second (0s, ¼, ½, ¾ and 1s). Conditions which inflict damage over time (bleeding, burning, torment and poisoned) deal damage each full second and a fractional damage either at the beginning or end of their duration. Thus, if a skill that inflicts poison with a duration of 6 seconds has its duration increased to 6.9 seconds through traits, it will show 7s in its tooltips, but will actually only deal full damage 6 times, the remaining duration will deal a fractional damage.

You might consider asking for help on builds and strategy. There are no hard rules on what a class can or can't be (i.e. tank/healer/dps) here. However, that free-form build system can be difficult for new players to wrap their heads around. Further, with action combat there is more of an emphasis on the tradeoff between dealing damage and passively soaking damage. This is something most new players struggle with as often being too tanky with too little damage will actually make fights more difficult to survive than they need to be. You can build for great damage with excellent sustain if you know how, however. Maybe you should try us? We might be able to help you figure out a build that lets you progress your story comfortably and without being forced to party up.

It would take the player many hours to farm enough gold to buy the LS episodes, and I don't disagree with the complaint about that. However, to put it in perspective, the gold you'd need to farm would take you less time and could be done concurrently along with the collections you need to complete to earn a skyscale! You seem to be in some sort of rush to complete everything. That's not how MMOs work. These are games that are supposed to keep you playing for years. It's not about unlocking everything in a day. If you slow down a little and do things like playing through the story, learning your way around the maps, completing achievements, you will find that you earn the things you otherwise would have had to farm as you go and it's less like grinding and more like...playing a game.

It's playable, but it is really lacking damage and there's nothing else weaver can really do. It's not useful for support and can't sustain in team fights very well, but as a side-noder it has less of everything meta side-node builds have as well. If you're going to design a class with no range, no mobility, ridiculously long cooldowns on stunbreaks, and no stability then it damn well better have the tippy top of top tier damage! It just doesn't, even if you go full glass.

It sounds like your first step should be completing hero point challenges in the expansion maps to unlock the weaver elite spec. This is easier to do in PoF as the challenges don't spawn champions.

then it is our duty to be available at starting areas and guide them if wanted. i don't see any connection to mounts there. That's a cop out. If the design is so poor that new players feel lost about what they should be doing, it is a failure of the design. I'm not saying that's necessarily the case, but when I look at core Tyria I see a game that doesn't do a very good job of showcasing its best features. Hearts feel lame and disconnected because they are. HoT got this right. Instead of hearts, each area of the map has a simple map indicator which shows whether or not the central events in that area have been completed. Once you're in the area, the sidebar indicates which event is currently in progress. This type of system makes it easier for players to determine where they should go to find the action. It's also better for story-telling, as the events are all connected and involve the player in what is happening. One-off events are useful as filler and to give the map a less scripted feel, but when that's all you have it can be pretty confusing. Okay, I just protected this guy's farm. Now what? HoT event chains lead the player from one event to the next, telling a story as they go and usually culminating in some sort of boss event at the end. This is easy to follow and feels more interesting and rewarding than running from heart to heart, collecting apples or protecting random farm from bandits, etc. Of course, this would require a total rewrite of the core maps. That's a pretty ambitious project.

Eh. She's proposing changes to the aggro system in raids to make it MORE active. At the moment, it's pretty much "whoever has the highest toughness gets the aggro" (which is pretty much forcing the boss to hold the idiot ball and generally attack the PC that's hardest to kill) so that all the tank needs to worry about is surviving and moving the boss to where it needs to be moved. What she's proposing there is to make holding aggro require active skill use rather than simply being gear-based. Which is a bit harder to do than in some games because GW2 was never designed with the concept of aggro management in mind, but things like taunt and fear and so on could probably be set up so that they influence aggro. These changes don't exactly make the aggro system more active. All it will do is pigeonhole builds into their forced roles even more because the proposal was to give "+aggro/-aggro" to the certain skills, which means all you'll absolutely need to do is equip them depending if you want to tank or not, because otherwise you won't reliably hold/drop aggro at all. Nothing about this idea sounds good, it won't really make anything "more active", it won't help build/role diversity, it's just another "I want it to be like in another game". For no good reason at all. Apparently current aggro system is too boring and "not active enough", but pushing minions to deal meta-level damage (in the same thread btw) is perfectly reasonable and something we want in the game, ok. ^This. Having a toughness tank is already a contrived solution for a game specifically designed to avoid having a trinity. How far down that road do we really want to go?

There should be plenty of time. You have at least an hour and a half from the end of the meta. If you're comfortable enough all of these events can be done solo and certainly don't require more players than can usually be found simply by tagging up and announcing in map chat when you begin. Bugs happen but I feel pretty confident in saying that Elizia Skysight bugs aren't common.

This event is one of three major events (defined as events that spawn champion bosses) that occur after the SCAR event chain is completed by escorting the scrap cannon successfully. All you have to do is complete that event chain early enough that you have time to do the post-completion events which include the chak assault on SCAR camp, the escort to the chak crown, and this event you're looking to complete (I forget which order they occur in).

I like the extra incentive and the way you can play it however you happen to feel that day. PvP? WvW? PvE? Random JPs and activities? It's whatever you want to do! Fractal dailies are great, too!

I find that reaper necromancer is one of the easier PvE professions to play with, so if you have one everything in PvE will be a lot easier when playing with it. Warrior is probably one of the worser professions right now especially when using a ranged weapon so everything may seem harder. I beat it with no death in less than a minute on my dual pistol thief.. Why because its ranged and armed to the teeth with cc skills, as i said most bosses are designed to destroy melee.. and classes are so imbalanced its not at all funny. Ranged can be easier because you can ignore or predict some of the mechanics of enemies easily, due to the distance you can put between yourself and the target. The trade-off I found in the classes I play though is that close range generally does more damage. So if you are able to manage the mechanics fine attacking from closer seems to kill them faster in a lot of cases. I disagree there isn't that much difference between a casual ranged class and a casual melee class, i use mostly Exotics because one they are easier to get and two Ascended are incredibly expensive for classes i consider worthless.. as they get changed, nerfed and die a lot.. so i just don't bother giving them good stuff just to have their gears become obsolete. Thief, Warrior, Elementalist and lesser so Mesmer are to me all worthless classes in high ping scenarios.. and very hard to solo on, so i don't bother with crafting 200-300g ascended sets.What is "casual" melee vs. "casual" ranged? Melee is generally higher risk for higher reward. If you're forced to play too defensively, you will deal less damage. Are you saying that if you can't manage the mechanics and rotations at melee range, then you're better off at range? I can agree with that. Exotic gear is not your problem. You would not be able to tell the slightest difference between your performance against a story boss in exotic vs. ascended. It's 5% stats. Without group buffs and proper rotation, the difference is negligible. If you play at barely playable latency, it is unreasonable to expect the game to cater to your specific needs. You're supposed to watch for visual queues and avoid them. That's the basis for the game's combat. If you're unable to do so due to technical limitations, the game will not be enjoyable.

Although the top 10% is only a few thousand AP minimum, getting that much can take a long time, or requires continuing through HoT+. The average new player is only going to have around 400~600 AP after reaching 80 and finishing the personal story.Let me put it this way: the lowest AP person on my friends list is at 496 AP points. They are also listed as being at 60% at leaderboard. So, ~60% of players have below 500 AP. Correction, i looked at my guilds lists as well, and found someone at 394 AP - 60%, and someone at 300 - 50%. So, 60% of players are below 400 AP, and 50% are below 300. Meaning half of all players didn't even get to halfway point in the Core storyline. Almost all of my 11 toons have stopped at the Claw Island chapter because I hated it.Isn't that the one where you can just stand around and the NPCs will kill it for you? Yeah, I hate that one, too.

It simply means the vast majority of players that bought this game, and those that tried it since it got free, quit it a very very long time before reaching your "level". but if so many players, as you claim , had done hot and beyond, they would had earned more APS than me , right?i should be WAY further down the list, specially since i havent played for so long now.what happened to them? did they hurry up and uninstall the game before the achievement got registered?i also note, that your response validates the blizzard ratios even more.and its quite funny, that a filthy casual, like me, still did more, than the majority of players in this gameThat's exactly what happened. They took a brief look at the core game, said "What is this trash!?", uninstalled, and left. That leaves you at the 90th percentile of AP because you're still here while the vast majority of players who have tried this game didn't like it and left before they saw anything in the later game.

but if you didnt like the "numbingly easy" gameplay in core, WHY DID YOU STAY AND BUY THE EXPANSION?WHY??? What does this even mean? I never said anything about liking or disliking core Tyria. I just said it's easy when compared to HoT. yep, and that is the problem. you said hot was a "good wake up call". that is clearly wrong, since it drove so many players away from the gameyou also believe it is "necessary". a point most of the other players disagreed withHoT was the cure to the core game which drove players away with its lack of anything challenging or interesting for players to do. It may have been too little, too late, but it saved the game. See? I can make up my own narratives, too! It's fun!

never touched those, and i doubt the average player even know of their existance. neither did i BTWthe names alone are enough to put them at the bottom of my to do list, sound like hardcore stuff IMO You're joking, right? This is a bit? Nope i'm the same didn't know those existed and don't really care that they do.. Toxic Alliance events spawn in starter-adjacent zones like Kessex Hills and Gendarran Fields. It's the big scary flower that gives you hallucinations, defended by Krait, Hulks, and Nightmare Court Knights that you have to stomp to death. These are actually baddies from Season 1 story but they're just part of the normal maps now. If you play the Season 2 story or even just the maps (Dry Top and Silverwastes), you will run into Mordrem like Terragriffs (the griffon-looking things that hit really hard) and Trashers (the spinny boys). The new enemies for HoT are the Mordrem Guard, the Chakk, and the various dinos. Other types of Mordrem are introduced slowly before you get there. Oh those yeah i tried those and got wiped never went back i thought they were some team event gone wrong. so, they are nerfing content with one hand, but they are using the other to do THIS?thats like revving the engine to full power and still having the BREAKS ONkilling players in core with this kitten doesnt make them "better", it just makes them want to quit the gamei cant believe the bad leadership in this company Technically doesn't make them quit so much as it makes most avoid said content completely.. Go to any Tyria map and check these Hot events and let me know how many people successfully complete them.. its very few.. most see them and avoid like a plague, usually after their first solo death, i've ressed countless poor souls who attempted those towers..And even i forgot this content existed, if anet remove these tomorrow no one would care. HoT metas are completed 'round the clock, despite requiring large numbers of players. HP trains are also ubiquitous. It's always been this way, despite haters predicting the death of these maps. They are clearly popular, no matter how much you love to hate them. if they were "popular", there would be more than a handful instances. 1 mio hot players would require something like 5000 ACTIVE instances.now count them , and compare the numbers. having a handful of them is "functional", nothing moreOh, right. I forget the premise is that core is super popular and has millions of players. LoL Good luck with that one.

HoT metas are completed 'round the clock, despite requiring large numbers of players. HP trains are also ubiquitous. It's always been this way, despite haters predicting the death of these maps. They are clearly popular, no matter how much you love to hate them. (This was a side conversation about the LW S1 Toxic Alliance incursions in a few of the central maps like Kessex Hills.)Oh, I see. Missed that part.

I find that reaper necromancer is one of the easier PvE professions to play with, so if you have one everything in PvE will be a lot easier when playing with it. Warrior is probably one of the worser professions right now especially when using a ranged weapon so everything may seem harder. I beat it with no death in less than a minute on my dual pistol thief.. Why because its ranged and armed to the teeth with cc skills, as i said most bosses are designed to destroy melee.. and classes are so imbalanced its not at all funny.That is simply false. Neither the Eater of Souls nor "most bosses" are designed to destroy melee. Melee tends to be higher risk with higher reward, but most bosses are not specifically designed with anti-melee in mind. There are some like the mushrooms which are significantly less dangerous from range. But HoT/story content is actually quite melee-friendly, generally speaking. The PoF bounties are a better example of bosses designed with mechanics that really punish melee. As evidence to back my claim, feel free to review my video of sword weaver killing Eater of Souls off of a single breakbar opener in 17 seconds. Or the video you requested where I use the same melee-locked build to complete the Balthazar HP challenge in Auric Basin in 50 seconds. You've previously claimed both melee and elementalist are at a disadvantage. How are we still making these claims? I don't get it.

never touched those, and i doubt the average player even know of their existance. neither did i BTWthe names alone are enough to put them at the bottom of my to do list, sound like hardcore stuff IMO You're joking, right? This is a bit? Nope i'm the same didn't know those existed and don't really care that they do.. Toxic Alliance events spawn in starter-adjacent zones like Kessex Hills and Gendarran Fields. It's the big scary flower that gives you hallucinations, defended by Krait, Hulks, and Nightmare Court Knights that you have to stomp to death. These are actually baddies from Season 1 story but they're just part of the normal maps now. If you play the Season 2 story or even just the maps (Dry Top and Silverwastes), you will run into Mordrem like Terragriffs (the griffon-looking things that hit really hard) and Trashers (the spinny boys). The new enemies for HoT are the Mordrem Guard, the Chakk, and the various dinos. Other types of Mordrem are introduced slowly before you get there. Oh those yeah i tried those and got wiped never went back i thought they were some team event gone wrong. so, they are nerfing content with one hand, but they are using the other to do THIS?thats like revving the engine to full power and still having the BREAKS ONkilling players in core with this kitten doesnt make them "better", it just makes them want to quit the gamei cant believe the bad leadership in this company Technically doesn't make them quit so much as it makes most avoid said content completely.. Go to any Tyria map and check these Hot events and let me know how many people successfully complete them.. its very few.. most see them and avoid like a plague, usually after their first solo death, i've ressed countless poor souls who attempted those towers..And even i forgot this content existed, if anet remove these tomorrow no one would care.HoT metas are completed 'round the clock, despite requiring large numbers of players. HP trains are also ubiquitous. It's always been this way, despite haters predicting the death of these maps. They are clearly popular, no matter how much you love to hate them.

most people take one look at the cliff, and say "nope". good luck in finding someone to pay for all this. unless you find a buried treasure, it aint happening You (and I) are not "most" people. It's obvious that you strongly believe that you are representative of the average player. As a player who spends a great deal of time escorting new players through HoT, I can say that most of the players I assist have nowhere near as visceral a reaction to HoT as you do. In fact, most of them seem to appreciate the challenge (the combat if not the navigation!) but recognize that they need to tweak their build, familiarize themselves with effective strategy, and practice in order to feel comfortable on these maps. I believe that was the intent of the design as well. You're welcome to your opinion, but you don't speak for the average player. "Most" people aren't looking at the cliff and seeing what you see. A lot of them are rising to a challenge that the core game sorely lacks. I would know because I was one of them and I meet others every day. You don't because you don't even spend any time in HoT. How can you claim to speak for "most" players in an area you don't even venture into?

And I call bull kitten your countervideo. All WoW players know that corruptions aint balanced, but Blizzard keeps listening to playerbase and constantly nerf/fix things. Tendrils, gnushing wounds, beam, etc. And furthermore, because its so hard to balance it, theyre removing that 'mechanic' in the very next expac.The guy that you linked is Rextroy, for those that dont know who he is - thats basically a player that spends his gametime on looking for mechanics that can be abused to oneshot players - Blizzard keeps an eye on it and constantly fixes whatever they find gamebreaking. And when you see how much it usually takes to perform such oneshot, its not like picking EE and nades on holo, and clicking 2 buttons, no. It takes much time to find combination of stats, gear, sometimes toys, that can provide oneshot. For example the video you linked. Whole gear in high corruption - you can basically kill yourself anytime by taking the smallest amount of damage. Then you have RNG of procing IS, then you have RNG of procing it on wrong target. Then you can be basically countered by enemy clicking Ice Block while you are in bubble taking damage from pet or w/e. High risk, high reward, truly glasscannon. What do you think, how many times they failed miserable before they managed to get one proper win? So yes, you can get oneshoted in current version of the game, but the amount of requirements that need to be met makes it imo fair. Meanwhile in gw2 theres no such thing. You can abuse whatever you want, without any time/money/brain investment. And guess what happens when you find something that can be abused and 3/4 of community find gamebreaking/not fun to play against/OP? Answer is - nothing, because ANet workers not only dont listen to community, but they also dont play their own gameYou basically confirmed what i was saying WoW will never have good PVP since all the balance is made for PVE, most of the mechanics are bad there for pvp but are cool for PVE so ill never expect WoW to have good pvp ever again. There will be a new gimmick next expansion anyway so if you are expecting pvp to be good then though luck. What? XDDHow the hell you got to that conclusion? Most of the mechanics are made for PvP, thats why all classes have their kinds of stuns, roots, hard and soft CCs. Its not classic where you use those things during boss battles, bosses are not affected to any kind of CC except interrupts. In PvE you just check what deals most damage, manage your rotation and dodge all 'red circles'. WoW has great competetive PvP, and thats why it has AWC (esport) and GW2 has not.And 'good pvp' in WoW - classic is clownfiesta, I agree, but thats how the game was in 2004. Since then, name what expansion you think PvP state was bad, so bad as balance is in gw2? Im listening.Also, gimmicks dont make pvp bad. They make it fun, its like leagues in PoE, new league - new ideas how to push your build to the limit. If something is too strong, it gets nerfed, like those examples I gave you. Overall corruptions are not a problem, what is a problem is the Cloak - it requires you to do weekly stuff on all your characters, which means for casual player to play 1, maybe 2 characters at the moment. And if you come back, you have hard time catching up to the rest of players. That and also thing that corruptions are hard to balance with upcoming new expac made blizzard delete it from the game instead of trying to keep it at decent level. Mature move, you dont have enough freetime to take care of the dog - you dont adopt one.I haven't played WoW in many years, but I'll take the bait. BC resto druid. I don't know how you could have played WoW PvP with this class and say that there's anything close to as poorly balanced in GW2. Okay, that's one class. How about the rock/paper/scissor balancing? Could a warlock lose to a mage? Could a rogue lose to a warlock? Practically impossible. But that's just how they balanced the game. Is it the same way today? I have no idea. WoW has better PvP not because of the trash combat system and balancing, but because they have a variety of game modes and a huge player population. It's not even a contest in any way. GW2 combat is simply way better than WoW, but WoW has all sorts of fun PvP games to play when you want to just play for fun and it has the competitive side as well. Is GW2 balance and combat good enough to carry it without any sort of support from ANet? Of course it isn't. And that's the only reason WoW PvP > GW2 PvP. But again, I say this without having played WoW in a very long time. So maybe it's better now? I doubt it, since as far as I can tell the PvE is almost exactly the same (minus stupid gimmicks) except the system has been streamlined to the point where you can no longer make borked builds like you can in GW2.

If people are wanting to do some content that requires a certain amount of DPS, surely they should be allowed to make note of when people are not performing to a satisfactory level? Ironically, DPS meters help prevent this very thing. Without DPS meters, people will kick for "Not playing meta". While with DPS meters, people can actually see if you perform to a satisfactory standard on a non-meta build. DPS meters are the reason why people are allowed to play Necromancer. Before DPS meters were popular, people would not let Necro's into parties because they "Weren't meta" but once people realized that Reapers could actually put out decent numbers (For a rando PuG run) they're now accepted into parties. DPS meters are a helpful tool. But they're just that, a tool. It's down to how a person uses it. Many people don't care about other people's DPS, so long as it's not abysmal. They'd rather just focus on improving their own performance and DPS meters are the way to accurately track that. Discrimination from DPS meters is a minor aspect of them as a whole (One that is not unique to them either, just look at LI/killproof complaint threads...). An aspect that their very existence can actually help combat. So I'm confused, on one hand you state that DPS meters do allow "non-meta" builds, but that they aren't used to evaluate other player's DPS... When did I say they aren't used to evaluate other player's DPS? I merely stated that most people don't really care about monitoring other player's DPS and/or discriminating against people for having mediocre or bad DPS so long as it's not abysmal (I.e. A pure DPS class being out DPS'd by the full Marshal geared Healer) Even THEN many people don't even care until it starts to actually be a problem, such as failure to beat bosses in time. A large number of players whom use DPS meters, really just care about personal DPS and self improvement. With the discrimination usage only being in some extreme scenarios for them, where players are actively harming the ability to complete some content. A minority of players simply want to discriminate against players because they're buttheads and will try and use DPS numbers to aggressively discriminate against anyone they can (Sometimes without regard for their own terrible performance) A useful tool for a majority of players shouldn't be removed because a minority of players are buttheads. Otherwise, we'd have to get rid of everything because no matter what, a minority of players will be buttheads... The problem with quoting something out of context is that you lose the context. DPS meters are, in fact, used to track other player's DPS, or nobody would know that "Necros are fine". It's evidently not just the "buttheads" that are doing it, right? Also of note, I did not call for their removal. While I don't believe that 3rd party software should allowed, nowhere did I state that they should in fact disallow it. I don't think they should be a thing, so I don't use them, but nowhere did I try to dictate what others should or shouldn't do, that's allowed by the devs.Obviously, the tool does what it does and people use it how they're going to use it. What separates "buttheads" from everyone else is that they treat other players poorly. As this thread has demonstrated, this is true whether you use arcdps or not.