New Patch notes ? ArenaNet What are you doing? [Merged]

[Obtena.7952]

8 hours ago, Math.5123 said:

I find it hilarious people are calling weapon and trait swapping unintended gameplay / exploiting after being in the game for over 9 years

Just as funny as people justifying unintended approaches to playing the game. 

[Imba.9451]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Just as funny as people justifying unintended approaches to playing the game. 

They have all the reason to justify it, considering it did not interfere with any major fights, and was not adressed until now . especially with the poor implementation, since you can still give buffs to other people, you simply lose your own.

[Obtena.7952]

3 minutes ago, Imba.9451 said:

They have all the reason to justify it, considering it did not interfere with any major fights, and was not adressed until now . especially with the poor implementation, since you can still give buffs to other people, you simply lose your own.

If that's their justification, it doesn't hold a candle to the justification Anet had to change it. What I said is still true ... if it's unintended, Anet is completely in their right to fix that, ESPECIALLY if it affects the performance of the game. 

 

I mean, are people so bad at the game they have to pre-cast to solo dungeons? That's sad actually. 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Imba.9451]

7 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

If that's their justification, it doesn't hold a candle to the justification Anet had to change it. What I said is still true ... if it's unintended, Anet is completely in their right to fix that, ESPECIALLY if it affects the performance of the game. 

And if Anet decides something else is unintended tomorrow? After such a long time, this change seems random and uncalled for.

7 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

 

I mean, are people so bad at the game they have to pre-cast to solo dungeons? That's sad actually. 

You know thats not the reason. Stop provoking.

[Obtena.7952]

3 minutes ago, Imba.9451 said:

And if Anet decides something else is unintended tomorrow? After such a long time, this change seems random and uncalled for.

Well, it shouldn't seem that way ... they told us why they did it. Is their reasoning somehow not plausible to you? Do you have some insight to their operations to suggest they shouldn't improve game performance? For some reason they should stop improving game performance, just because some people want to continue using unintended play methods? 

 

Please tell me you have NOT given critical thought to your position here ... because basically you are telling me that it's more important for a few players to using unintended game play than it is to have a better running game overall. 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Imba.9451]

8 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Well, it shouldn't seem that way ... they told us why they did it. Is their reasoning somehow not plausible to you? Do you have some insight to their operations to suggest they shouldn't improve game performance? For some reason they should stop improving game performance, just because some people want to continue using unintended play methods? 

 

Please tell me you have NOT given critical thought to your position here ... because basically you are telling me that it's more important for a few players to using unintended game play than it is to have a better running game overall. 

I really do not know why I keep arguing with you, considering your condescending undertone and provocations dripping from almost every post you write. But oh well, here we go again:

 

We don't know what aspect exactly causes an improvement of the game performance. Also, the current interaction of stacking buffs that get reset on you, but not on others, seems even more unintended than how it was before. Also, the only place this was possibly used was in instances, in wich usually people are tied in battles and in wich not many players are present to begin with.

 

So yes, unless I am shown how exactly this improves game performance for the general public, I am advocating for people who complain about these changes, even tho I am way too casual to ever engage in speedrunning tactics that make use of those mechanics.

[Obtena.7952]

7 minutes ago, Imba.9451 said:

We don't know what aspect exactly causes an improvement of the game performance. Also, the current interaction of stacking buffs that get reset on you, but not on others, seems even more unintended than how it was before. Also, the only place this was possibly used was in instances, in wich usually people are tied in battles and in wich not many players are present to begin with.

 

So yes, unless I am shown how exactly this improves game performance for the general public, I am advocating for people who complain about these changes, even tho I am way too casual to ever engage in speedrunning tactics that make use of those mechanics.

So basically, for you, it's more important for a few players to using unintended game play than it is to have a better running game overall just because you don't know the impact that the changes have to the performance of the game? I mean, do you think Anet put that work into making this change because it wouldn't have value to the game that is more significant than ensuring a few people can speedrun dungeons as fast as possible? You realize that's ridiculous right? Those people are still able to speedrun dungeons, just not as fast. 

 

You are honestly telling me that enabling people to continue shaving some time from their dungeons speedruns is more important than game performance? I don't believe that. I don't believe that YOU believe that either. That's a completely unreasonable position to take. 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Imba.9451]

2 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

So basically, for you, it's more important for a few players to using unintended game play than it is to have a better running game overall just because you don't know the impact that the changes have to the performance of the game? I mean, do you think Anet put that work into making this change because it wouldn't have value to the game that is more significant than ensuring a few people can speedrun dungeons? You realize that's ridiculous right? Those people are still able to speedrun dungeons, just not as fast. 

 

You are honestly telling me that enabling people to continue shaving some time from their speedruns is more important than game performance? I don't believe that. I don't believe that YOU believe that either. That's a completely unreasonable position to take. 

Considering Arenanets implementaion of this, I actually do believe this, yes. I have explained how this is flawed. I also explained, that without elaboration on how this increase game performance, and in wich instances it increases game performance, I fail to see the neccessity here. Because if this performance increase only affects a very tiny fraction of the game, and only in instanced content, it probably doesn't matter at all, especcially if it was ONLY cause by weapon swapping and pre stacking . wich most people simply never do, as you stated yourself, thus not redurcing game performance in the first place.

As long as no additional information is presented, I allow myself to put this decision into question, even though it does not affect me.

[Obtena.7952]

Well, as long as we understand your position is based on a lack of understanding of the performance impact and lack of trust that Anet cares about the game for everyone more than they do for the plight of a few dungeons speedrunners that will have a few seconds added to their runs ... then at least it's clear. 

 

I mean, that seems rather absurd to me that you don't trust Anet to make decisions about the game that will benefit everyone ... like it's their goal to cause intentional harm to their only revenue-generating asset ... but you be you. 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Imba.9451]

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Well, as long as we understand your position is based on a lack of understanding of the performance impact and lack of trust that Anet cares about the game for everyone more than they do for the plight of a few dungeons speedrunners that will have a few seconds added to their runs ... then at least it's clear. 

 

I mean, that seems rather absurd to me that you don't trust Anet to make decisions about the game that will benefit everyone ... like it's their goal to cause intentional harm to their only revenue-generating asset ... but you be you. 

Yes, I prefer to be critical. I mean, this whole affair does not rile me up or anything, I simply lean towards the "was this really neccessary?" side. Wich we have no information about. We do not even know if this does benefit everyone, or just people who pre-stack in a dungeon. Thats pure speculation on your part, on wich you build your argument.

 

And, again: Please refrain from articulating your posts in such an provocative and condescending way, and just provide the arguments you want to make without uneccessary jabs. This would make interaction alot easier and does not endanger the conversation to get derailed.

[shrew.3059]

On 9/1/2021 at 9:01 AM, Mik.3401 said:

And this is what I think everyone know here, just no one wants to admit - this was just an exploit and kind of pay to win with additional templates - not serious gaming skills

 

It can be both, oddly enough. It can take skill to find ways to maximise one’s advantages, but as you point out, this can step over the line into exploitation. ANet decides where that line is.

[Math.5123]

10 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

So basically, for you, it's more important for a few players to using unintended game play than it is to have a better running game overall just because you don't know the impact that the changes have to the performance of the game? I mean, do you think Anet put that work into making this change because it wouldn't have value to the game that is more significant than ensuring a few people can speedrun dungeons as fast as possible? You realize that's ridiculous right? Those people are still able to speedrun dungeons, just not as fast. 

 

You are honestly telling me that enabling people to continue shaving some time from their dungeons speedruns is more important than game performance? I don't believe that. I don't believe that YOU believe that either. That's a completely unreasonable position to take. 

They didn't change this because it was unintended gameplay (after 9 years) they changed it to improve server stability. 

They never stated that they don't want people weapon swapping in dungeon and fractal clears. Those are your words and yours alone. 

[Obtena.7952]

52 minutes ago, Math.5123 said:

They didn't change this because it was unintended gameplay (after 9 years) they changed it to improve server stability. 

They never stated that they don't want people weapon swapping in dungeon and fractal clears. Those are your words and yours alone. 

Improving server stability is more than enough of a good reason to make this change. ... and if it does prevent some grey area game play, added bonus. 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Obtena.7952]

8 hours ago, Imba.9451 said:

Yes, I prefer to be critical. I mean, this whole affair does not rile me up or anything, I simply lean towards the "was this really neccessary?" side. Wich we have no information about. We do not even know if this does benefit everyone, or just people who pre-stack in a dungeon. Thats pure speculation on your part, on wich you build your argument.

It's not pure speculation that server improvements benefit everyone. I mean, if the game runs off the server, how does it NOT benefit everyone that plays the game? Was it necessary? It's an improvement. It's likely not necessary. It's also not necessary for speedrunners to get the best times running dungeons either, so the question of necessary really doesn't apply here.  

 

Obviously Anet, (who you don't trust to make decisions about the game), though the work to make the change was valuable enough to implement for the benefit of everyone in the game. That added a few seconds to speedrunners dungeon times? I guess some snowflakes will melt. 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Imba.9451]

11 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

It's not pure speculation that server improvements benefit everyone. I mean, if the game runs off the server, how does it NOT benefit everyone that plays the game? Was it necessary? It's an improvement. It's likely not necessary. It's also not necessary for speedrunners to get the best times running dungeons either, so the question of necessary really doesn't apply here.  

 

Obviously Anet, (who you don't trust to make decisions about the game), though the work to make the change was valuable enough to implement for the benefit of everyone in the game. That added a few seconds to speedrunners dungeon times? I guess some snowflakes will melt. 

Like I said: I am neither riled up about this, nor in a furious frenzy to disagree on Anets decision, like you make me seem to be.

I just would like to know more details, especially considering how this effect ONLY got nerfed for the weapon-swapper, not for everyone else receiving the boons. I see this even as a good thing in WvW (wich would be a valid point against my argument, that you never made), but due to it's poor implementation, still works in WvW to quite an extend.

[Obtena.7952]

4 hours ago, Imba.9451 said:

Like I said: I am neither riled up about this, nor in a furious frenzy to disagree on Anets decision, like you make me seem to be.

I just would like to know more details, especially considering how this effect ONLY got nerfed for the weapon-swapper, not for everyone else receiving the boons. I see this even as a good thing in WvW (wich would be a valid point against my argument, that you never made), but due to it's poor implementation, still works in WvW to quite an extend.

It's OK .. I don't need a comprehensive list of points to make an argument for this implementation ... Anet's decision to do so for the reason they gave is quite enough. I don't think there is much details to give without getting too technical and I have no doubt Anet will not release operational details about how the game runs.

Edited September 2, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Cyprien.4208]

So, This isn't the only game that changed something to improve the servers. Dungeon & Dragons Online recently changed how the damage was calculated (double strike was changed from calculating each hit to just the first hit and etc..) to improve the server coding and like Guild Wars many people was upset however at the end no one really cared and it's in my view much nicer for it.

It doesn't matter if it was an exploit or not Anet will do what they think is best for the game. You're only choice is to stop playing or keep playing yes you can complain however that doesn't do much other then to vent. It's only when people quit playing such as wow real change happens. 

[Xanadrine.4352]

18 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Just as funny as people justifying unintended approaches to playing the game. 

Is there a list or manifesto of how im supposed to play the game? Is big brother going to tell me I must play this way everyday or get out? So all that stuff about play the game at your pace and do what you want is not true?

[Obtena.7952]

3 minutes ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

Is there a list or manifesto of how im supposed to play the game? Is big brother going to tell me I must play this way everyday or get out? 

No there isn't ... that's why it's funny people are complaining about having time added to their speed runs because they can't pre-stack ... but please do, continue. 

 

But yes you aren't far off on the second question there. It is Anet's role to be 'big brother' here. So if they decide to change something and it impacts how you play ... well, yeah, take it or leave it. That's not even outrageous to me. They can run their business how they see fit, just like any other business owner does. 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Xanadrine.4352]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

No there isn't ... that's why it's funny people are complaining about having time added to their speed runs because they can't pre-stack ... but please do, continue. 

I dont care what they do with prestack, I think its a persons choice. But as was pointed out this isnt about any exploitation, its about them trying to stabilize the servers. Which I think is bogus also, there are not a lot of high level fractal groups doing this to cause that kind of destabilization. but since its a hidden area out of the way they rather nerf that than out in open world where the whole community would scream bloody murder  

[Dante.1763]

14 minutes ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

I dont care what they do with prestack, I think its a persons choice. But as was pointed out this isnt about any exploitation, its about them trying to stabilize the servers. Which I think is bogus also, there are not a lot of high level fractal groups doing this to cause that kind of destabilization. but since its a hidden area out of the way they rather nerf that than out in open world where the whole community would scream bloody murder  

Serious question, do you have stats on how many players took advantage of this? You talk like you do, so im guessing you must be able to show its only a small portion of the playerbase doing stuff like this.

[Loboling.5293]

Why is everyone so focused on prestacking in dungeons and raids? That's a minority of people impacted by these changes. Losing all your boons when you swap a trait affects new players to the game as well. Especially when you don't have mounts and swap in a warhorn for a bit of swiftness between hearts or to help along as escort mission. It's just weird game behavior that swapping a weapon or trait will invalidate so much that is currently happening. You may be out of combat, but it doesn't mean you're not moving to a new fight. Maybe you decide from the last group of mobs that you need a defensive trait to fight these npcs, but swapping it just removed your banners.... Oh wait, your traps are gone now, you equipped a focus. Wait 30 seconds and then start the fight.... As a new player, this is very unintuitive. 

I don't care about meta times of speedclears, or the top 0.1% of gw2 players trying to optimize their performance. I just want the game to feel good to play. And this change does the opposite. It makes the game less fun and less intuitive. Especially for new players. 

If this is about performance, then keep it to WvW, where performance is an issue. I didn't see any fps gains from this change, maybe I'm the only one. I don't feel the impact of this change from a performance standpoint, but the combat system just got a little worse. 

I'm still hoping this change is part of some master plan for WvW, but don't penalize everyone for some upcoming update. Find a way to separate the functionality of this change between different areas. 

Am I the only one who didn't notice any performance change with this update? 

Am I the only one who likes to swap things around in the open world on the fly?

Am I the only one who remembers what it's like to play without mounts? 

Weapon swapping shouldn't be part of this update at the very least.

[shrew.3059]

45 minutes ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

Is there a list or manifesto of how im supposed to play the game? Is big brother going to tell me I must play this way everyday or get out? So all that stuff about play the game at your pace and do what you want is not true?

 

No, there are rules. ANet sets those rules. The rules define the game. You didn’t really think you could do whatever you wanted, right? This can’t be the first time you’ve hit a rule or constraint imposed by ANet.

[shrew.3059]

5 minutes ago, Loboling.5293 said:

Losing all your boons when you swap a trait affects new players to the game as well.

 

Does it? I think the most intuitive functionality is that trait swapping effectively resets your character. Why would the default behaviour involve preserving buffs/effects from a different spec? In many games, changing a spec requires a cost and is considered a big deal. Trait swapping is not the same as weapon swapping and the game never indicates it should be thought of like that.

[Omega.6801]

I very much agree to these changes. Sure, the more hrdcore players might miss out on some tryharding. But for people like me, who'd rather kill trash mobs than wipe three times while "doing that epic strat that everabody wants to do because it's the speedrun way which is the best way and therefor the only valid way", removing these things is a blessing.