Open World Solo

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

I swear.

Doing all these group events, champion and legendary bounties on thief, solo. Some really require damned lot of effort in terms of LoS and timing (and resource management). Then you see all these videos about viper scourge soloing bosses just walking around casually and spamming skills, tanking through stuff with barrier while transmuting condies.

Tough to be a thief, huh. Maybe we could get something on par with mirage and scourge in End of Dragons, eh.

EDIT: for the curious, I'm running celestial gear with a hybrid build. Torment runes with Spider and Skale Venom.

Edited September 19, 2021 by NorthernRedStar.3054

[Zacchary.6183]

That is probably why it is such a pain for you. Thief can't really capitalize on celestial very well. I run full marauder or valk/marauder with Vampirism runes for power and tankiness and carrion/viper with krait runes for hybrid. They deal plenty of damage.

[LuRkEr.9462]

With celestial you wouldn't be getting the most out of invigorating precision most likely to keep your health up.

Celestial dagger/dagger thief can be effective at killing world bosses but IMO its easier to just go p/p with marauder and relying on invigorating precision to keep you alive.

 

Though celestial scourge is a god in OW, not much it can't do. Just the way it is, can't all be the best.

Edited September 20, 2021 by LuRkEr.9462

[ASP.8093]

Invigorating Precision can cover for a whole lot of mistakes.

I've routinely been fighting/kiting some champ and I see some other player airdrop in and get killed in 10 seconds while I just keep on sustaining through it all.

When I'm stuck on something, I pop some endurance food, and that's usually enough to get me over the hump.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

16 minutes ago, Zacchary.6183 said:

That is probably why it is such a pain for you. Thief can't really capitalize on celestial very well. I run full marauder or valk/marauder with Vampirism runes for power and tankiness and carrion/viper with krait runes for hybrid. They deal plenty of damage.

Isn't Vampirism only efficient if there's enough trash mobs to leech off of? 

I can see it working w/ staff, not so much on p/p. Does power have enough gas to solo bosses in under 10 mins? 

 

15 minutes ago, LuRkEr.9462 said:

With celestial you wouldn't be getting the most out of invigorating precision most likely to keep your health up.

Celestial dagger/dagger thief can be effective at killing world bosses but IMO its easier to just go p/p with marauder and relying on invigorating precision to keep you alive.

I've been using both Trailblazer and Celestial builds. Some places you want the added hybrid sustain over tankiness, and/or you want to be spamming autos in-between rotations.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

Just now, ASP.8093 said:

Invigorating Precision can cover for a whole lot of mistakes.

I've routinely been fighting/kiting some champ and I see some other player airdrop in and get killed in 10 seconds while I just keep on sustaining through it all.

When I'm stuck on something, I pop some endurance food, and that's usually enough to get me over the hump.

I legitimately forgot endurance food existed, might give it a go tomorrow when I practice soloing Ellutherius Wintergust. Base game open world is easy for power, but I find condition and hybrid to be much more efficient in the expansion areas.

[Zacchary.6183]

2 minutes ago, NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

Isn't Vampirism only efficient if there's enough trash mobs to leech off of?

It is a power/vitality rune that also offers an extra 10% to maximum HP. And yes, but not many is really needed if you know what you are doing.

[kash.9213]

Cloaked in Shadow, Invigorating Precision, and most of the time Rending Shade with Draining sigil usually feel like enough to stay in a fight for mob to mob kill rate. I flip between DE and Core a lot with about 3 to 4 templates for different kits for clearing stuff during map travel depending on who is around me and their fields.

[saerni.2584]

I was running around in PvE earlier today doing some Return to achievements (fell behind recently so need to catch back up). I also have been running some DPS trackers so I can compare a bit and work on a balance of sustain and damage. 
 

Until a reaper joined an open world bounty group I was in: I was 64%% of the group's total damage. After that, I still was top damage. 
 

Mix Viper and Rampager with Torment runes. Won't speak to raids and ideal situations but I don't think thief can't do damage right now.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

1 hour ago, Zacchary.6183 said:

It is a power/vitality rune that also offers an extra 10% to maximum HP. And yes, but not many is really needed if you know what you are doing.

Health is nice when you have the entire spectrum of wild life lining up to annoy you as you're killing a boss that spawns tornadoes on top. But it's ultimately useless if you have nothing to sustain it back up. Invigorating Precision is nice, but it loses you a lot of DPS in No Quarter. And I'm not exactly sure how it measures up with non-zerker gear.

Taking a hit here and there cannot be avoided in most scenarios. Then again, plenty of these bosses would be hella easy if it weren't for extra mobs - Forged Tormentor, Zehlon Ossa, etc.

Edited September 20, 2021 by NorthernRedStar.3054

[Zacchary.6183]

18 minutes ago, NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

And I'm not exactly sure how it measures up with non-zerker gear.

I would actually prefer Marauder over zerker for invigorating precision because marauder has more precision than zerker.

 

21 minutes ago, NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

Then again, plenty of these bosses would be hella easy if it weren't for extra mobs - Forged Tormentor, Zehlon Ossa, etc.

Hence, Vampirism runes. Take a chunk off the boss and heal up with trash kills.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

It has been my experience that invigorating precision trivializes most fights.  Unless you get one shot or heavily counter-pressured by some mechanic, then you'll survive even in full berserker gear.  Wearing Marauders can help alleviate that pressure while losing about 8.4% of total damage.  

[Cynz.9437]

I have done most of the content on zerker DrD raiding build (with some tweaks) because i am too lazy to switch. As you wrote, need to do some resource management and time dodges. True, some encounters can be troublesome or take long and you can't facetank like some other classes BUT we also have that one condi d/d build (spam dodges and d3 forever) that just works really well if everything else fails (yes, it feels like cheating but hey.... w/e works).

 

Lets be honest OP, we didn't pick thief to play a tank (i mean military vehicle here). We picked thief due to its risky nature. I think most of PVE content is fine on thief, raids/fractals are ofc different story.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

5 hours ago, Cynz.9437 said:

I have done most of the content on zerker DrD raiding build (with some tweaks) because i am too lazy to switch. As you wrote, need to do some resource management and time dodges. True, some encounters can be troublesome or take long and you can't facetank like some other classes BUT we also have that one condi d/d build (spam dodges and d3 forever) that just works really well if everything else fails (yes, it feels like cheating but hey.... w/e works).

 

Lets be honest OP, we didn't pick thief to play a tank (i mean military vehicle here). We picked thief due to its risky nature. I think most of PVE content is fine on thief, raids/fractals are ofc different story.

You can't spam dodges in a lot of legy and champ bounties, though. You'll end up dead in under 20 seconds unless there's 0 surrounding mobs and the boss is super telegraphed.

 

The rotation is based around maximizing Havoc damage for Death Blossom while retaining reactive survivability. Most of the sustain and damage come from torment application and/or bleed. It's a fine line you walk between managing proper DPS and endurance to stay ready for trouble.

 

Sure, most bosses (such as HoT hero points) are trivial. But I'm mainly talking bounties - legendary and champion - that are the hardest solo content in the open world at the moment. 

 

You can clear base game bosses without ever dodging and on zerker gear. It's that easy. 

 

Also, if you call condi dd "cheating", I want to hear your opinion on renegade and scourge, lol.

Edited September 20, 2021 by NorthernRedStar.3054

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

If you're going celestial you really ought to give P/D celestial deadeye a try (kitten 321 SA 322 DE 111). I use tempest runes and condi duration infusions, with a strength sigil and those traits you get 25 might as long as you can cycle malice and keep hitting stuff which gives you around 2.5k power and 1.5k condi damage with 70% duration on top of decent defensive stats. The tempest rune heal is about 1.7k on stunbreak, mercy shadowstep and RFI give you plenty of chances to use it. The OP is right in that thief is always gonna be harder to play than other classes, but I've not really struggled with any content in open world or story with this build. 

[Zacchary.6183]

15 hours ago, Cynz.9437 said:

yes, it feels like cheating

If it was cheating it wouldn't exist in gw2. ;^)

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

On 9/19/2021 at 6:48 PM, NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

I swear.

Doing all these group events, champion and legendary bounties on thief, solo. Some really require damned lot of effort in terms of LoS and timing (and resource management). Then you see all these videos about viper scourge soloing bosses just walking around casually and spamming skills, tanking through stuff with barrier while transmuting condies.

Tough to be a thief, huh. Maybe we could get something on par with mirage and scourge in End of Dragons, eh.

EDIT: for the curious, I'm running celestial gear with a hybrid build. Torment runes with Spider and Skale Venom.

Yeaaah... don't run Celestial on thief, ever. Thief has very little in the way of builds and options. So a lot of things thief just doesn't have the capabilities of running.

A lot of people will tell you to just run Berzerkers, but that's honestly stupid. As it's pretty easy to get murdered as a thief in level 80 content. Especially when you can get a whole crowd attacking you at once. Only run Zerks for Raids... I wouldn't even bother with it for fractals. For Fractals, you'll be wanting to Run Marauders, which gives you the benefits of Zerkers with only a slight dps loss and a gain in survivability.
 

Marauders or Valks is a good option in open world. Valks is typically ran as a hybrid, or with runes that allows gives guaranteed crits, or fury. Valks is also sometimes combined with Cavaliers for a bit more tankyness... though this is more common in WvW.

Edited September 21, 2021 by Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497

[Cynz.9437]

9 hours ago, Zacchary.6183 said:

If it was cheating it wouldn't exist in gw2. ;^)

That is why i said "feels like" 😛. As far as PVE  (almost) anything goes in imo 😄

Edited September 21, 2021 by Cynz.9437

[SeTect.5918]

These do pretty well vs champions in hot and so on:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PagAoilZwQYQMKmJOuW3vPA-zRRYcBBSGNcflRBFQHJg3DA-e for Deadeye

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PaABoihjlZwQYOMKGJO2W3tKA-zRRYcBBSG9cflRBlQHZg3DA-e for Daredevil

However since may 11 torment on deadeye got a huge nerf in case of sustain, because before it did torment stacks based on malice when using pistol stealth attack, now it does duration based on malice. It wasnt even a that good build. So if you dont want to use tormenting rune, u can use these builds:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PaABoihjlZwOYOMKGJO2W3tKA-zRRYcBBSG9cfhRaJ0lB+kitten-e for Daredevil

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PagAoilZwQYQMKmJOuW3vPA-zRRYcBBSGNcfhRaB0lA+kitten-e for Deadeye

The Builds above have a bit higher sustain and the build down have higher damage because the build above use tormenting rune and the down ones use krait rune.

Noting that all 4 are condition builds because i am far better in making condi builds than in making power builds because i play condi most of my time.

Edited September 21, 2021 by SeTect.5918

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

On 9/21/2021 at 12:30 AM, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

If you're going celestial you really ought to give P/D celestial deadeye a try (kitten 321 SA 322 DE 111). I use tempest runes and condi duration infusions, with a strength sigil and those traits you get 25 might as long as you can cycle malice and keep hitting stuff which gives you around 2.5k power and 1.5k condi damage with 70% duration on top of decent defensive stats. The tempest rune heal is about 1.7k on stunbreak, mercy shadowstep and RFI give you plenty of chances to use it. The OP is right in that thief is always gonna be harder to play than other classes, but I've not really struggled with any content in open world or story with this build. 

This sounds interesting, I'll definitely give this variation a go.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

18 hours ago, SeTect.5918 said:

These do pretty well vs champions in hot and so on:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PagAoilZwQYQMKmJOuW3vPA-zRRYcBBSGNcflRBFQHJg3DA-e for Deadeye

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PaABoihjlZwQYOMKGJO2W3tKA-zRRYcBBSG9cflRBlQHZg3DA-e for Daredevil

However since may 11 torment on deadeye got a huge nerf in case of sustain, because before it did torment stacks based on malice when using pistol stealth attack, now it does duration based on malice. It wasnt even a that good build. So if you dont want to use tormenting rune, u can use these builds:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PaABoihjlZwOYOMKGJO2W3tKA-zRRYcBBSG9cfhRaJ0lB+kitten-e for Daredevil

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PagAoilZwQYQMKmJOuW3vPA-zRRYcBBSGNcfhRaB0lA+kitten-e for Deadeye

The Builds above have a bit higher sustain and the build down have higher damage because the build above use tormenting rune and the down ones use krait rune.

Noting that all 4 are condition builds because i am far better in making condi builds than in making power builds because i play condi most of my time.

I take Uncatchable on daredevil, but Thrill of the Crime on deadeye, too. I honestly never really saw the point on deadeye, since you'll be dodging very selectively by comparison. I'd swap out Panic Strike for Even the Odds, though, and Havoc over Staff Master. 

Just wondering, do these builds have enough sustain w/o the poison leech from SA?

Edited September 22, 2021 by NorthernRedStar.3054

[SeTect.5918]

22 minutes ago, NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

I take Uncatchable on daredevil, but Thrill of the Crime on deadeye, too. I honestly never really saw the point on deadeye, since you'll be dodging very selectively by comparison. I'd swap out Panic Strike for Even the Odds, though, and Havoc over Staff Master. 

Just wondering, do these builds have enough sustain w/o the poison leech from SA?

Havoc gives strike damage bonus which isnt effective on trailblazer, and its Max. 15% strike damage bonus. Staff master gives 120 power on 1000 base power which is perm 12% strike damage bonus, but i just took staff master because of the endurance anyway, so more dodge. 

For the thing with uncatchable, yes. Sry i forgot to change it because i used the deadeye as template, so i didnt have to change the armor fully New.

So yes uncatchable is the better one.

[SeTect.5918]

28 minutes ago, NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

Just wondering, do these builds have enough sustain w/o the poison leech from SA?

With tormenting rune for sure, without it, idk. 

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

48 minutes ago, NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

I take Uncatchable on daredevil, but Thrill of the Crime on deadeye, too. I honestly never really saw the point on deadeye, since you'll be dodging very selectively by comparison. I'd swap out Panic Strike for Even the Odds, though, and Havoc over Staff Master. 

Just wondering, do these builds have enough sustain w/o the poison leech from SA?

What's sustain?

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

1 hour ago, Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

What's sustain?

Sustain is the ability to keep yourself in good health during a fight. Depending on who you ask, this includes healing, toughness and damage reduction; or just healing.