In which role should the New e spec fit in? (Power dps, condi dps, support....)

[Kodama.6453]

17 minutes ago, InsaneQR.7412 said:

 

Holo is actually zephyrite tech not asura tech. But generally i would be down for alchemical madness.

In lore, yes.

However, the spec's aesthetic is entirely built around Asura. Even Anet stated themselves that they borrowed all the aesthetic elements from Asuran tech and then they just made up a lore explanation for how this tech got developed in Elona independant of Asura.

Holosmith IS basically an Asuran elite spec... just with a pseudo excuse to make it work with Elonan lore.

[InsaneQR.7412]

56 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

In lore, yes.

However, the spec's aesthetic is entirely built around Asura. Even Anet stated themselves that they borrowed all the aesthetic elements from Asuran tech and then they just made up a lore explanation for how this tech got developed in Elona independant of Asura.

Holosmith IS basically an Asuran elite spec... just with a pseudo excuse to make it work with Elonan lore.

Ouu didnt knew that they actually stated that. But aesthetically i definetly agrree that its very high techish.

 

A bitlmore down to earth, even more Chem-Tech/Chem-Punk like would be a bit new and cool tbh.

[Ghos.1326]

Healer, at least by a default with the option of running a condition focused DPS build.

[Kodama.6453]

11 hours ago, Ghos.1326 said:

Healer, at least by a default with the option of running a condition focused DPS build.

Considering how much they promoted the healing scrapper build by giving us quickness recently, I doubt that we will get a dedicated healer support spec.

[draxynnic.3719]

Condi is really the big gap now since scrapper support was upgraded. Be nice if it could do condi or something else depending on gear (similar to how firebrand can be either hb, cdps, or boon support + condi), but that's the big gap in the profession.

[SnowMochi.7602]

What I want to see is a Ranged Power Spec. We have  lots of hybrid specs, melee-centric, and medium range specs - that's enough. Lots of condition damage already available too, but what exists needs to be fixed so that it works better.  I'm not fond of mish-mash, hybrid specs that are at best, middling, in what they try to do. Give me something that excels, not a lukewarm, skip-fire hybridization.

 

The last two e-specs have been melee.  So yes, we are sadly lacking a long range power spec because as it stands, there is nothing to support a good long-range style of play. And don't tell me to use Mortar Kit, which I find slow and cumbersome.  Further, the Mortar Kit, like the Grenade Kit, relies on ground targeting, which gets reflected, and is also subject to projectile hate anyway.  Turrets kept getting nerfed so that they are now completely useless. Grenades no longer have the range it once had, so that is also out. The rifle and the pistol are arguably the worst implementation of those weapons in the game.  Compared to other classes such as Thief and Warrior, Engineer Rifle sucks and has lousy damage on top of it. 

 

[SeTect.5918]

6 hours ago, SnowMochi.7602 said:

What I want to see is a Ranged Power Spec. We have  lots of hybrid specs, melee-centric, and medium range specs - that's enough. Lots of condition damage already available too,

 

The condition damage thats so "good" comes from a power spec. We have 2 power specs. Why a 3rd?

 

6 hours ago, SnowMochi.7602 said:

The last two e-specs have been melee.  So yes, we are sadly lacking a long range power spec because as it stands, there is nothing to support a good long-range style of play.

 

The last two e specs have been power. So yes, we are sadly lacking a condi spec because as it stand, there is nothing to support a good melee or long range style of play.

 

6 hours ago, SnowMochi.7602 said:

And don't tell me to use Mortar Kit, which I find slow and cumbersome.  Further, the Mortar Kit, like the Grenade Kit, relies on ground targeting, which gets reflected, and is also subject to projectile hate anyway. 

 

Yes, Pistols of condi too.
As power you have scrapper hammer and holo sword. They cant get reflected. but wait, did you just say u want a long ranged power spec and said this then? You want a long ranged power spec that cant get reflected? Keep dreaming.

 

6 hours ago, SnowMochi.7602 said:

The rifle and the pistol are arguably the worst implementation of those weapons in the game.  Compared to other classes such as Thief and Warrior, Engineer Rifle sucks and has lousy damage on top of it. 

 

Yes pistols are not good, thats why 58 voted for condi dmg and 9 for power dmg. Also we have 2 power specs, why people want a 3rd? If you want a good long ranged power weapon, ask for rifle rework, its needed anyway. But dont ask for another power e spec just because you want a range power weapon.

Also rifle holo benches higher than condi holo btw. The damage cant be as bad as u tell us it would be.

[SnowMochi.7602]

No. I'm not saying it's "so" good. I'm saying it's there. I was talking about the condition access that came from our core trait lines and from pistols with the odd but from kits. It used to be enough to run condi core and now that's fallen behind through a combination of kits and stranger nerfs to pistols and the way that conditions are now applied. Not to mention the overabundance of cleansing/conversion to boons, things which aren't going to change, at least not in competitive modes, even if you got your condition spec.  We have condi access we just need what's already there in core to be brought up to parity with other classes.

 

So what if the last two especs have been power? They're still power with a heavy bias toward melee. Power is burst, and burst is what gets things done until something changes to make that statement false. Actual ranged power- whether it comes via staff or longbow - would be a good thing to have. That, rather than something that is going to be cleansed or converted every few seconds. It isn't as though they are going to give us a copy/paste of Harbinger anyway. They ended up giving the condi spec people asked for, to the Necros instead. Nobody saw that coming....

 

I don't know why you're bringing hammer and sword into this. They are melee. I'm talking about ranged. I don't care whether a power ranged spec is allowed to ignore projectile hate - though it would be nice considering other classes get this through limited active use skills, venoms etc. I was talking more about how our two supposed big hitters, Mortar kit and Grenade kit, function. Not only are they subject to projectile hate, but they're also saddled with the slow travel times and the need for ground targeting, which is just another step, another hoop we have to jump through to make anything work in a fight where others don't have to. If we had grenade kit and mortar functioning as grenade kit does underwater, I wouldn't even be bothering here. They don't. It's stupid that we're the one class that has to fight the enemy and our own busted, wonky mechanics just to do anything. 

 

Yes pistols aren't good. But it's easier to bring them and our kits back to where they need to be along with core trait lines, instead of leaving them in their broken states, and giving us a terrible condi based spec that's only going to get nerfed later anyway.

You're talking about rifle holo benchmarks as if it isn't benchmarking high in spite of the rifle instead of because of it. That's what happens when you combine something as busted as holo with just about anything else. And the bread ad butter of it is still being done in midrange to melee because it's the kit/trait line doing the heavy lifting, not the crap weapon.

 

I'm not asking for a ranged power spec simply for the sake of gaining a ranged power weapon. I'm asking because right now ranged power is a role we actually aren't able to fill even adequately.

 

To me, the poll numbers are insignificant; there are more people who actually play the game than play the forums. The one hundred odd people who voted in the poll is an inadequate sample size to base any assertion off of. Besides, the poll didn't even have an option for ranged power specs, even though we've been stuck at mid to melee range for the last eight years.

Edited to add:

Original Poster: You put up a public poll with a thread that invited discussion. You wanted our two cents, and that is what I brought to the table. 

 

Edited October 6, 2021 by SnowMochi.7602
Additional remarks

[SeTect.5918]

2 hours ago, SnowMochi.7602 said:

No. I'm not saying it's "so" good. I'm saying it's there. I was talking about the condition access that came from our core trait lines and from pistols with the odd but from kits. It used to be enough to run condi core and now that's fallen behind through a combination of kits and stranger nerfs to pistols and the way that conditions are now applied. Not to mention the overabundance of cleansing/conversion to boons, things which aren't going to change, at least not in competitive modes, even if you got your condition spec.  We have condi access we just need what's already there in core to be brought up to parity with other classes.

 

So what if the last two especs have been power? They're still power with a heavy bias toward melee. Power is burst, and burst is what gets things done until something changes to make that statement false. Actual ranged power- whether it comes via staff or longbow - would be a good thing to have. That, rather than something that is going to be cleansed or converted every few seconds. It isn't as though they are going to give us a copy/paste of Harbinger anyway. They ended up giving the condi spec people asked for, to the Necros instead. Nobody saw that coming....

There is also no guarantee that ur power range weapon u ll have will be good in any gamemode. A power range weapon would be nice, but not in the new e spec.

2 hours ago, SnowMochi.7602 said:

Yes pistols aren't good. But it's easier to bring them and our kits back to where they need to be along with core trait lines, instead of leaving them in their broken states, and giving us a terrible condi based spec that's only going to get nerfed later anyway.

? Explain? Both scrapper and holo are fine e specs. Maybe they got nerfed, but they r playable and do a good job. Also scrapper actually got buffed last months due to quickness on superspeed. And holo was always a fine dps spec. Maybe New e spec will get nerfed, but every dps based e spec in gw2 does their job fine. So i dont understand what u r trying to tell me.

2 hours ago, SnowMochi.7602 said:

You're talking about rifle holo benchmarks as if it isn't benchmarking high in spite of the rifle instead of because of it. That's what happens when you combine something as busted as holo with just about anything else. And the bread ad butter of it is still being done in midrange to melee because it's the kit/trait line doing the heavy lifting, not the crap weapon.

Why u just explained literally every e spec now? Revenant, core swords and staff are not very good, renegade and herald swords are pretty solid. Warrior, wow, literally no weapon there does a very good job without berserker or spellbreaker spec. Core mesmer weapons also not good without e spec. Its just General e specs that r busted. Holo sword also is not very good if it would be in core without holo spec. If you create an e spec, you have to make both core and the e spec weapons good on it. If rifle would be better than sword, it would be just op. Bc sword on its own is also not good.

2 hours ago, SnowMochi.7602 said:

I'm not asking for a ranged power spec simply for the sake of gaining a ranged power weapon. I'm asking because right now ranged power is a role we actually aren't able to fill even adequately.

And condi holo is? We have a clunky and difficult rota, less sustain than power holo, we swap between melee and range all the time and that for dealing less damage than power holo. Not really adequately too.

You want a fully ranged power weapon but every power build on engi...no...every build on engi that does good dps Contains kits. Means you will most likely never get rid of grenade kit or bomb kit. 

Also i dont expect the e spec of getting rid of all 3 kits of condi holo but i expect it to get rid of at least 1 kit. Like power holo got rid of at least 1.

2 hours ago, SnowMochi.7602 said:

To me, the poll numbers are insignificant; there are more people who actually play the game than play the forums. The one hundred odd people who voted in the poll is an inadequate sample size to base any assertion off of. Besides, the poll didn't even have an option for ranged power specs, even though we've been stuck at mid to melee range for the last eight years.

People who play the forum automatically also play the game. 

Yes my poll had no option for ranged power. I made an option for "something different" because i didnt want to make 1000 options. I could make options for each condition it could get, or different game modes, melee/ranged, stuff like barrier, cc oriented and whateeever.

And yes it is an inadequate sample of size. But i dont think it would be different when more people vote tbh.

And condi engi also has been stuck at mid to melee range for 8 years now. Most of your points are exactly the same you could say about condi engi.

Edited October 4, 2021 by SeTect.5918

[anduriell.6280]

Ah i thought this was about thief spec, whoever was confused that was the right feeling. Yes i think engie could benfit greatly from a condi spec this time. 

 

Old comment for the curious. 

5 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

I would like to have a support oriented elite thou. Thief has already plety of access to dps builds and to allow some condi variant Anet just needs to buff the right utilities/traits. 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2021 by anduriell.6280
wrong topic

[draxynnic.3719]

Regarding the ranged power thing...

 

It's something I'd like to see at some point too, but all the indications we've had with this specialisation has been something melee. The icon that people assume that engineer will get looks melee-oriented. While ranged mace isn't impossible, it's also a weapon that's more likely to be melee than not.

 

So, given a choice between melee condi or yet another melee power, I'd definitely go with the melee condi.

[Random Wax Orc.7695]

Still, despite the solid reasons for engineer needing a condi elite spec, if Anet gives engineer an elite that only really functions in a single role, then I will consider the elite a failure.  Engineer needs multiple options not just a glaringly missing option.  Condi melee is needed, but condi ranged, power melee, power ranged, and even support should also be fought for.  I want choices, plural.  Lots of other classes have multiple viable roles for a single elite... Engineer should not be settling for scraps.

[draxynnic.3719]

2 hours ago, Random Wax Orc.7695 said:

Still, despite the solid reasons for engineer needing a condi elite spec, if Anet gives engineer an elite that only really functions in a single role, then I will consider the elite a failure.  Engineer needs multiple options not just a glaringly missing option.  Condi melee is needed, but condi ranged, power melee, power ranged, and even support should also be fought for.  I want choices, plural.  Lots of other classes have multiple viable roles for a single elite... Engineer should not be settling for scraps.

I don't disagree, but the weapon is probably only realistically going to fulfill one role. 

 

A lot could come out of the traits, though. If the traits bring some significant enhancements to condition DPS, for instance, that could make pistol more viable (particularly if there's something to prevent those traits from just becoming Even More Reason To Spam Grenades). Engineer pistol is probably my favourite pistol thematically, it just lacks the numbers to actually make it competitive.

 

Given that they recently revamped scrapper to be better support, it seems unlikely that ArenaNet is planning to give support - at least not the same kind of support. Healing is still mostly coming out of core, though, so that's possible if they do provide something else that isn't the same as what scrapper brings. Tank is definitely on the table given what appears to be shields or pauldrons on the icon (assuming we have guessed them correctly). 

 

I don't think it should be condi DPS and nothing else regardless of traits taken, but I think the general consensus is that condi DPS is the one thing that absolutely should be there, but there is some indifference regarding the rest.

[Bomboed.5697]

On 10/3/2021 at 7:21 AM, SnowMochi.7602 said:

What I want to see is a Ranged Power Spec.

We don't need Ranged Power Spec.
What we need is a Bomb Kit, with its hilariously stupid animations, being reworked into 1200 range power based Rocket Launcher Kit with normal targeting instead of ground-targeting.
This is an ideal solution, which will work well with both Scrapper and Holo, without making third power based Espec.
Both Espec weapons are melee. And the only core power weapon is a rifle, which is not purely ranged. And most of our Kits are melee, or clunky ground-target AoEs.

WE NEED A ROCKET LAUNCHER!
ROCKET LAUNCHER - ALWAYS A GOOD IDEA!

[AshenOwl.2485]

On 10/4/2021 at 2:56 PM, Bomboed.5697 said:

We don't need Ranged Power Spec.
What we need is a Bomb Kit, with its hilariously stupid animations, being reworked into 1200 range power based Rocket Launcher Kit with normal targeting instead of ground-targeting.
This is an ideal solution, which will work well with both Scrapper and Holo, without making third power based Espec.
Both Espec weapons are melee. And the only core power weapon is a rifle, which is not purely ranged. And most of our Kits are melee, or clunky ground-target AoEs.

WE NEED A ROCKET LAUNCHER!
ROCKET LAUNCHER - ALWAYS A GOOD IDEA!

Mr. Torgue, I know this is you

[Orack.9756]

Do we have information about the new spe ? I'm waiting it to choose if I go warrior or engi :x

[Dawanarth.4601]

Not yet, I think some people did an estimation on when we would have the various information (shadow/picture/video/beta) but I can't seem to find it again and we should get a shadow a week (so either this friday or the next ?)

[Bomboed.5697]

9 hours ago, tesnow.4721 said:

Mr. Torgue, I know this is you

EXPLOSION!

[SeTect.5918]

2 hours ago, Dawanarth.4601 said:

Not yet, I think some people did an estimation on when we would have the various information (shadow/picture/video/beta) but I can't seem to find it again and we should get a shadow a week (so either this friday or the next ?)

Every friday 1 shadow. Last friday Was thief shadow. In 2 days is another and friday of next week another. Then in 2 weeks and 2 days on friday the video of anet showing the traits and skills. Then on the next tuesday, at 18:00 CET, after the video the 3rd beta starts. I ll later edit this comment for the specific Dates. 

[Uete.3805]

50 minutes ago, SeTect.5918 said:

Every friday 1 shadow. Last friday Was thief shadow. In 2 day:s is another and friday of next week another. Then in 2 weeks and 2 days on friday the video of anet showing the traits and skills. Then on the next tuesday, at 18:00 CET, after the video the 3rd beta starts. I ll later edit this comment for the specific Dates. 

So, basically:

• 8th/9th Oct: Reveal of Engi or Ranger spec's concept art
• 15th/16th Oct: Reveal of the last spec's concept art
• 19th-21st Oct: Reveal of names and skill videos for the last 3 specs
• 22nd Oct: Anet's showcase of the last 3 specs
• 26th Oct: Beta III

Hopefully (Condi spec) Engi comes first xD the wait is killing me.

[SeTect.5918]

8 minutes ago, Uete.3805 said:

So, basically:

• 8th/9th Oct: Reveal of Engi or Ranger spec's concept art
• 15th/16th Oct: Reveal of the last spec's concept art
• 19th-21st Oct: Reveal of names and skill videos for the last 3 specs
• 22nd Oct: Anet's showcase of the last 3 specs
• 26th Oct: Beta III

Yup exactly like that. Glad someone did it for me. Ty xD
 

 

9 minutes ago, Uete.3805 said:

Hopefully (Condi spec) Engi comes first xD the wait is killing me.

Same, I just want to see thats its condi engi and gets no minions or pets.
Basically bc i want to play group content, minions r not welcomed in grp content like fractals. Hfb is 5 man support, if your minions eat the boons and ur teammates get none then, this spec will be kicked anyway out of 95% of grp content.

[wolfyrik.2017]

Would it be too much to ask for an espec which doesn't kill fashion wars? No transformations, no more kits and absolutely no kittening god-kittened AI!

[lorddarkflare.9186]

Condi. And a mechanic that makes kits less central to the class.

 

Like all kits get converted to a normal skill..

[Dawanarth.4601]

5 minutes ago, lorddarkflare.9186 said:

Condi. And a mechanic that makes kits less central to the class.

 

Like all kits get converted to a normal skill..

Why ? That make no sense, if you don't like kits simply don't use them

[Kodama.6453]

17 minutes ago, Dawanarth.4601 said:

Why ? That make no sense, if you don't like kits simply don't use them

Agreed, changing all kits into "normal skills" makes no sense.

What anet should do is giving us reason to run something else than kits for condition builds. Strong condition damage utility skills and class mechanic would be great and open up new condition builds for engineer, similar to how holosmith opened up power builds some so we don't have to use 3 kits all the time.