Who would you like to see as a Legend ?

[draxynnic.3719]

33 minutes ago, Dawanarth.4601 said:

A gun themed legend should be Scarlet Briar, at least she is a character that most have heard about or even played against.

She could be themed about the Twisted Marionette, The Breacher and so on

I'm sceptical that we'll get any legends based on characters that are actually present in the story, particularly antagonists. Glint is probably closest since she only died five years before the game time starts and her spirit is still present in the Mists, but she also explicitly taught Rytlock how to tap into her legend, and since she's an ally that avoids the potential of someone going and fighting her with her own legend.

 

ArenaNet has already laid down the justification for this, by teasing us with the existence of a Joko legend before the PC swears to never draw on it again. Enemies that the PC fought directly just seem to be too personal for the PC to use. Perhaps revenants in successive generations will start tapping into the legends of figures like Scarlet, Lazarus, Devona (if not Balthazar himself), Joko and Ryland, but the player character seems to have no intention of going there. They'll happily channel villains of the past like Shiro and Mallyx, but enemies they fought themselves are just too close to home.

[Dawanarth.4601]

Wasn't Jokko a problem of fearing releasing him ? Also there wasn't any Revenant before Scarlet's death. Since Scarlet war preceded the HoT and the canon appearance of Revenants

[draxynnic.3719]

The quote is 'just this once, never again'. Nothing about being afraid of releasing him (and we knew by the end of the instance that he was free anyway, if the revenant PC hadn't realised that already from Joko's legend providing a get out of jail skill). It's also worth remembering that revenant legends aren't generally linked to the being in question, so there's no reason to think that employing Joko's legend will empower him in any way. It's just that his impact on history and Elonian culture was such that he logically WOULD have a legend, even if he was still...not properly dead.

 

Scarlet predated revenants, but canonically revenant PCs, like Rytlock, still did everything attributed to them before they became a revenant, they just did so as another profession. ArenaNet just didn't represent that mechanically because they didn't want to force players to replay the story with one of the original professions before playing revenant, nor did they want players converting existing characters. So a revenant PC still fought Scarlet according to canon.

[Al Masone.1274]

We have a lot of specs with a fire theme, but pretty much the only one with an ice theme is the reaper. Vindicator will have a decent chill uptime, but that's just for gameplay reasons, not because it actually fits in thematically with the spec. 

So I'd like to get a legend that would fit in in an ice/cold themed spec. 

Svanir could be interesting, with maybe the possiblity of shapeshipfting into a bear (like the norn racial), with ice themed abilities. 

Jora, Svanir's sister, could also bea thing. She's the hero who first stood against jormag.

Asgeir is instead the norn hero who managed to sever one of jormag's fangs, the one you see in hoelbrak. 

And other cool idea would be to be able to actually commune with one of the spirits of the wild. Maybe snow leopard could be the more original, transforming you into a sort of ice werewolf (well, were leopard), with with stealth thrown in the mix, which is something no heavy class has yet. More or less think about the norn racial elite, and make it into a elite spec. 

[draxynnic.3719]

Honestly, a full cold-oriented elite spec could be interesting. Could be primarily power-based by default, but liberal chill application could also synergise with Abyssal Chill for a condi spec.

 

Don't see it being either Jora or Asgeir, though. Jora was just a typical, if above average in skill level, norn warrior of her time. Asgeir was the first to use a jotun scroll to empower his weapon, so I'd expect him to use fire. (He would be a good choice for an animal spirits theme, though, since he used their blessings to fight Jormag.)

 

Jora and Asgeir might also be problematic due to the remaining weapons available.

[Dawanarth.4601]

What about Koda/Kodan (Those Ice bear guys, Koda is their ancestor). Maybe Main hand Axe or Warhorn ?

[draxynnic.3719]

1 hour ago, Dawanarth.4601 said:

What about Koda/Kodan (Those Ice bear guys, Koda is their ancestor). Maybe Main hand Axe or Warhorn ?

Hrrmn. Could be interesting to go waaaaay back to the first bear to ask questions of Koda. Would essentially be a representative of the kodan beliefs as a whole in a similar way to Jalis representing the dwarfs and Ventari representing the sylvari.

[Rin.1046]

Spoiler

Tybalt Leftpaw

 

It still hurts man!

 

[Zenith.7301]

A norn legend is long overdue. It should have been the legend for vindicator.

 

Makes no sense that they gave a charr legend for PoF but suddenly this xpac the race needs to be relevant to the xpac just because.

 

Especially when the two vindicator legends given to us are so bland and boring aesthetically.

[Dawanarth.4601]

On 11/14/2021 at 3:56 AM, Zenith.7301 said:

A norn legend is long overdue. It should have been the legend for vindicator.

Well yes but no, Norn, Asura and Sylvary are at the first place, Charr are lower priority and the human should honestly be avoided for the time being.

But whom ?

Jora ? Shield and Sword, killed her fallen brother after he was corrupted by Jormag

Eir ? Longbow (Used to be a ranger)

Asgeir ?

Romke ? Warhorn

Or going for a cultural stand point, their spirits could become a good  legend, maybe Owl as it's one of the lost spirit

Or Koda ? The ancestor/god of the Kodan

 

[Dadnir.5038]

A norn themed revenant e-spec would probably be about becoming the avatar (transformation) of the legend you channel via F2 and the legend associated to this spec would have to be able to summon critters to harass it's foes. Point is that Norn's popular characters would be incredibly unfit for such spec as they are mostly about personal ability and less about their racial skills.

That said, you can still imagine a "Legendary Havroun" for each of the spirit of the wild that the norn revere or the legendary first individual of a race (for example: the first Hyleck which could be "Ameyalli" -> would be the legendary animist).

 

[Zenith.7301]

3 hours ago, Dawanarth.4601 said:

Well yes but no, Norn, Asura and Sylvary are at the first place, Charr are lower priority and the human should honestly be avoided for the time being.

But whom ?

Jora ? Shield and Sword, killed her fallen brother after he was corrupted by Jormag

Eir ? Longbow (Used to be a ranger)

Asgeir ?

Romke ? Warhorn

Or going for a cultural stand point, their spirits could become a good  legend, maybe Owl as it's one of the lost spirit

Or Koda ? The ancestor/god of the Kodan

 

 

 

Asgeir or Koda would be fine. I'd even like Jora for the throwback to GW1.

[Ulysses.2058]

Svanir with double daggers imitating claw attacks could also work and somewhat fill the norn and evil legend void.

[Dadnir.5038]

An interesting point that I gather from this thread is that people don't want a "racial e-spec" but and e-spec with a legend found in the lore of a race.

A racial e-spec on revenant should draw upon the relation of the legend with it's natural racial skills. As such Renegade is a true "racial e-spec" as it express the racial thematic that you can find in the chaar's racial skills (The bow isn't far from the chaarzooka, Kallah's skills are all about summoning her warband while you find citadel bombardment within the racial skill artillery barrage.)

 

When talking about "norn e-spec", Jora is the very first that should be excluded because the spirit of the wild chose to lock her out of her racial skill. Asgeir, while being a legend, lack the "control over the wild" thematic, it's sad to say it but he is merely a vessel to express what the spirit of the wild tell him.

An example of a norn legend that could express the norn thematic would be: Eir Stegalkin who would have been a "Norn legend" not due to her martial prowess but due to her achievement as a sculptor as she is one to commune with the spirit of the wild to guide and shape her artistry. Unfortunately, she sculpt both wood and stone which are 2 thematics that are already expressed through Jalis and Ventari. Her e-spec could have F2 "commune: Transform yourself into the avatar of your current legend" (expressing the norn ability to take the form of their totem) while her personal skill would be to shape earth and wood into companion to help her in a fight. Also, as the racial skills are mainly using "claw and fangs" at melee range, the weapon would have to be a melee one, not the longbow that seem to be expected of Eir. Unfortunately, as Eir is part of the early chapters in the game, it would be awkward to channel her as a legend.

 

When talking about "asura e-spec" on the revenant, one should expect something similar to the mechanist. Unfortunately, as it has been "given" to the engineer, my guess is that there won't be an "asura e-spec" on the revenant.

 

Ventari as a legend is as close as something can be for a sylvari e-spec.

 

Which would leave a "human e-spec" which would have to "commune" with the gods instead of the legends to fit the thematic. And I doubt that the devs would do such an e-spec that would basically remove all utility skills to replace them by others based on the 5-6 Gods (especially since the main character have to fight against one of those gods).

 

All in all it should be easier to create "racial e-specs" for non playable races as their abilities and lore are likely to create less "conflict" with the profession(s) than something like a "human e-spec", a "norn e-spec" or an "asura e-spec". Which doesn't mean that norns, humans, sylvaris or asuras can't have legend of their own but not likely as a "racial e-spec".

As such (and as uninspired as it is), the alliance e-spec use humans as legends but cannot claim to be a "racial e-spec", neither does shiro and devastation, it's associated specialization.

[Telgum.6071]

Race is irrelevant, I don't get this talk about "it has to be a norn" or "can't be human". Last time I checked the importance of the legend was on their story and influence, not their race.

[Dawanarth.4601]

1 hour ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Ventari as a legend is as close as something can be for a sylvari e-spec.

Are you kidding me ? Ventari though he linked to the Sylvary isn't a Sylvary, there are quite a few possible Sylvary character that could offer that spot (Scarlet Briar, pls)

1 hour ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

All in all it should be easier to create "racial e-specs" for non playable races as their abilities and lore are likely to create less "conflict" with the profession(s) than something like a "human e-spec", a "norn e-spec" or an "asura e-spec". Which doesn't mean that norns, humans, sylvaris or asuras can't have legend of their own but not likely as a "racial e-spec".

As such (and as uninspired as it is), the alliance e-spec use humans as legends but cannot claim to be a "racial e-spec", neither does shiro and devastation, it's associated specialization.

Even core Revenant is quite Human centric, Shiro, Archemorus and Saint Viktor are human, true they are all Canthayan but that still human-human, you now will be able to play a Revenant with only humans legends

Renegade is a Racial inspired Espec, a non-Charr doesn't look weird as a Renegade

Just like a Charr Vindicator wouldn't be weird either

 

[Dadnir.5038]

3 hours ago, Dawanarth.4601 said:

Are you kidding me ? Ventari though he linked to the Sylvary isn't a Sylvary, there are quite a few possible Sylvary character that could offer that spot (Scarlet Briar, pls)

That's why you clearly don't understand what I'm saying. What you want isn't a "racial elite" but an elite spec with a legend from a specific race. There is a very important difference that you seem to fail to see.

Like I said, a racial elite take the traits of a race and express them through a legend that does not need to be from this very specific race. And as such nobody is more qualified as a sylvari legend than the "father" of all sylvaris: Ventari. His legend even express the "turret aspect" and summoning of the sylvari race.

3 hours ago, Dawanarth.4601 said:

Renegade is a Racial inspired Espec, a non-Charr doesn't look weird as a Renegade

You do summon "chaars" with kallah's skill which make it weird for other races in it's own way. Lore wise it would just be wrong for chaar to channel a pious human (as a Human racial e-spec would have to channel the Gods and chaars hate Gods).

3 hours ago, Dawanarth.4601 said:

Just like a Charr Vindicator wouldn't be weird either

Vindicator isn't a racial e-spec, it have 0 tie to the racial skills. You could say that Vindicator try to be a "cultural" spec capitalizing on the canthan culture. Unfortunately is fail grossly as there is no reason to associated a dodge spec to a "legendary alliance" between 2 tribes that are infamously known for not being able to restrain themselve from killing each other. The worst being the GS that make no sense at all within the whole of this spec.

The game lore offer many cool options for legend and possible e-specs, yet the devs probably chose the worst of all. There is nothing coherent within the 3 elements that make the vindicator.

 

So again, what I say is that players want popular character as a legend not racial e-spec. Which make, for example, people saying they want a norn e-spec with Jora as a legend a nonsense as she is a norn that lost access to the norn skills, the spirit of the wild turning their back on her. You sure can imagine that sometime after GW1 end of the timeline she managed to find a kind of replacement for what she lost but nothing in her lore suggest as much which disqualify her as a potential legend for a "racial e-spec".

[draxynnic.3719]

You kinda hit on the distinction there - when people talk about a legend coming from a particular race, what they mean is a legend drawing from the history and culture of that race.

 

Shiro, Mallyx, and the vassal duo all come from human history, Mallyx as one of the top captains of the fallen (human) god Abaddon. Glint and Jalis arguably do too, due to their impact largely having been seen on the mostly human-centric story arcs of the original Guild Wars. Ventari is 'sylvari' because the only reason he's a legend is because his Tablet became the foundation of sylvari culture and philosophy - it's not a coincidence that the Ventari legend is based around the Tablet. And Kalla is obviously charr.

 

So a 'norn' or 'asura' legend doesn't have to be a 'racial skills repackaged as legend skills' thing, although there is some potential in that approach. Nor does it even have to be a member of either race. It just needs to be something that contributed to that race's heritage in some fashion. A 'norn' legend, for instance, could be based on some terrifying beast that was brought down by a norn hunter in the past. Unfortunately, we don't actually know many norn legends despite their obsession with them, but that could be solved by recreating the battle through a fractal to give it context, and then introducing the elite specialisation after players had come to know what they were fighting.

[Dadnir.5038]

7 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Ventari is 'sylvari' because the only reason he's a legend is because his Tablet became the foundation of sylvari culture and philosophy - it's not a coincidence that the Ventari legend is based around the Tablet.

Well, you forget the fact that he is also the one that planted and grew the mother tree. There wouldn't be sylvari without Ventari. I even wonder if sylvari's ethimology isn't a contraction of Sylv(e) and (Vent)ari.

[Zenith.7301]

Ventari is pretty much a Sylvari legend, anyone saying otherwise is clearly lore illiterate. He's totally inconsequential to most Krytan culture, and not even a thing for charr, asura, or norn. He is the most fitting legend for Sylvari.

 

I mean, Sylvari are such a new race, it would feel so cheap to get a sylvari legend, god no please no Trehearne.

 

Norn needed a proper legend far more than sylvari did. And then Asura also need a legend.

[Kodama.6453]

1 hour ago, Zenith.7301 said:

Ventari is pretty much a Sylvari legend, anyone saying otherwise is clearly lore illiterate. He's totally inconsequential to most Krytan culture, and not even a thing for charr, asura, or norn. He is the most fitting legend for Sylvari.

 

I mean, Sylvari are such a new race, it would feel so cheap to get a sylvari legend, god no please no Trehearne.

 

Norn needed a proper legend far more than sylvari did. And then Asura also need a legend.

I agree that Ventari already functions as a Sylvari legend, but that it is a new race is not an argument against an actual Sylvari becoming a legend. Maybe not Trehearne, but you have to admit that Scarlet Briar would definitely be deserving of the legend status. Her impact on Tyria as a whole was huge.

[draxynnic.3719]

12 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Well, you forget the fact that he is also the one that planted and grew the mother tree. There wouldn't be sylvari without Ventari. I even wonder if sylvari's ethimology isn't a contraction of Sylv(e) and (Vent)ari.

I was summarising, not giving his whole life story...but you're wrong anyway. Ronan planted the seed, not Ventari. Ventari hung around the Tree until he died and probably tended it (given the importance of trees in centaur religion), but it's questionable whether the young Pale Tree actually needed that. There would probably be sylvari without Ventari, but their culture might have been very different.

 

(I say 'might' because there's a nature/nurture question with the Pale Tree. Is she the way she is because she absorbed Ventari's philosophies, or did Ventari's philosophies resonate with her because she was already inclined to think that way and Ventari's teachings just gave structure to those inclinations?)

[Zenith.7301]

10 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

I agree that Ventari already functions as a Sylvari legend, but that it is a new race is not an argument against an actual Sylvari becoming a legend. Maybe not Trehearne, but you have to admit that Scarlet Briar would definitely be deserving of the legend status. Her impact on Tyria as a whole was huge.

 

God, no. It's bad enough having some obnoxious "jajajaja" twig edgy loser like Jinx in LoL, don't need her obnoxious GW2 analogue anywhere near my revenant.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Zenith.7301

[Kodama.6453]

32 minutes ago, Zenith.7301 said:

 

God, no. It's bad enough having some obnoxious "jajajaja" twig edgy loser like Jinx in LoL, don't need her obnoxious GW2 analogue anywhere near my revenant.

Different people like different characters, it seems. Jinx has been one of my favourite champions in League of Legends for years, hell, she was the very reason I started playing that game since I loved her character design so much.

And these Harley Quinn archetypes seem to be fairly popular, ya know? There is a reason why Riot decided to center their first League of Legends animated series around Jinx' backstory. Jinx is one of their most successful products ever, girl makes alot of money for them.

All this being said, I think it is unlikely that we will get Scarlet as a legend anyway, simply because we directly witnessed her story. There is not much they can give us as additional lore information with her anymore. Other legends which were impactful for Tyria, but which we didn't directly watch doing it, might be more interesting to get some fun stuff for the lore enjoyers.

[Riot Inducer.8964]

I know vindicator has kind of reduced people's interes t in a dual legend spec but if we're looking at a norn based legend, Jora/Svanir are an amazing duo to build out a unique playstyle from. And you really can't do one of these characters justice without the other imo. The sons of svanir are a big deal to modern norn and there's a reason there are so many Jora statues around and not Aesgir ones. 

 

And going by race the question of asura legend is interesting and has some good candidates. Oola, Zinn, and Snaff are all good choices. All of them were mainly golemancers first and foremost, and I think this is where Oola loses out as that's all she's really known for too. Zinn has lots of interesting ideas to be explored as the founder of the Inquest and several disparate asuran settlements. However Snaff is the most interesting imo as his achievements include, pioneering golem battlesuits, creating personal teleporters, oh and mentally dominating an elder dragon.