Mercenary System Curiosity

[Salvatore.3749]

14 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

 

No, I didn't miss the point. On the other hand you seem to miss the fact that the poster I was responding to tries to pretend this is a single player game and there are not signs of it being multiplayer. Then any time the game directs the player into playing it as a multiplayer game -that it obviously is- the claim is that it can't do that, because it didn't do that... earlier? That's some backwards pseudo-argumantation where he claims the game doesn't do something, but when it does, it doesn't count because he/you don't want it to count.

And I already answered to that "meta" claim in the previous response to you.

Yes. And what it is, is mmorpg.

So we can agree, you want the game played the way you want it to be played and don't want consider other mechanics outside of what you want? And you want the game played as it was initially presented? The whole reason for GW2, from launch, was solo gameplay without group parties. If you ever played GW1, you had to have a party to play content, heroes were implemented for that reason. 

What I'm understanding is you don't want any changes to this game at all

And honestly, you getting so emotional about this topic is interesting. I'm just glad there are other die hard GW2 fans in the franchise. 

While I do think this system could work in some ways, I know it wouldn't work in other ways, especially if not done right. Again, I'll advocate for this type of system for instanced content only., story modes, living world, and dungeons. I know instanced content would include fractals, strikes, and raids, but I'll still hold the position that fractals, raids, and strikes wouldn't benefit from heroes. I'm not against preventing the use of heroes in fractals, strikes, and raids, but I doubt they would be effective in those scenarios. 

 

[Kurrilino.2706]

2 minutes ago, Salvatore.3749 said:

While I do think this system could work in some ways, I know it wouldn't work in other ways, especially if not done right. Again, I'll advocate for this type of system for instanced content only., story modes, living world, and dungeons. 

 

They don't even have to restrict it like that.

 

Jumping puzzles already show how this could be done when it comes to mounts.

As soon as you come to a dedicated Worldboss area or something of importance, your henchman turn automatically off.

It's that easy

[SoulGuardian.6203]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Notice how you claim the game never tells you to play with other players, but right after that you repeatedly say players group up becuse they have to in certain content. This is the game telling you to group up with other players. Seems rather clear and simple. Not only that, but even initially you write "Of course an mmo is aimed to be played with other players". The game is what it is, YOU KNOW what it is and you knew it when you've picked up an mmorpg game. No need to pretend that it's not meant to be played with other players because there's no flashing message in the middle of your screen telling you to group up.

This whole statement has no point whatsoever in why people that want to play by themselves, still should not have mercs.

...and please do not reply the same thing over and over, as it goes back in a loop, and I already posted answers to all that.

I also already posted about your statement, but you either didn't read my whole post or chose to ignore it.

 

You only highlighted what you thought it would be credible to reinforce whatever point you're trying to make, as a way to convey to people that they should not have mercs because the game is an mmo.

 

 

Edited September 30, 2021 by SoulGuardian.6203

[Salvatore.3749]

35 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

1. The content is not untouched. Dungeons groups fill within seconds. Players simply do not bother with creating them themselves. Giving them even less reason to do so would make the problem worse, from a MMORPG stand point.
2. I know about loners in MMORPGs. Given 90% of this games content is already targeted at them, do the remaining 10% really need to get adapted as well?
3. Some group play is forced, mostly the very very very high end stuff (and even here much "can" get soloed with enough experience, skill and time). Even among the forced group content, much requires not any more interaction than joining another group and never speaking a single word beyond "hi" and "thanks you, bye".
4. I played it during release, after Nightfall and EotN. GW1 is in fact a perfect example to look at how NPCs affect player interaction and how more useful NPCs crowd out grouping, interactions and fundamentals of actual cooperation.
5. Really, and how much development has the game seen in the last years? GW1 is just as successful as Baldur's Gate, Diablo 2 or any other game which has 0 resources devoted to it but retains some players. The vast majority of them playing it as a single player game. From a development standpoint the game is dead and has been for years.
6. So again, why is this something GW2 should go for right now?

1. To people who want to form parties, it makes it worse for them. But, for people who don't want to be forced to work with others, it's better for them. 
2. Through this logic, your in the 10% and you want to see more players working together? 90% of the players don't want to work together and this content would benefit 90% of the player population. 
3.  True. I stated that heroes would not replace players in high level content. 
4. Okay, so you liked the social interaction and thought the hero mechanic knocked it down. 
5. In 2020, the dev team gave GW1 new weapons. They also have had bug fixes and other things. There was a new hidden weapon discovered in the far shiverpeaks. There are now iron man challenges.  A huge community of players still interacting. Yeah, from a development standpoint, they outsourced the development to an outside company that handles small things from time to time. It may not have new content so far, but it's still alive. 
6. Good question, to give people time and freedom to play the game differently. To control their party outcomes in certain instanced content and play it in a new light. It would also help ArenaNet financially. 

 

 

[Sobx.1758]

1 minute ago, Salvatore.3749 said:

So we can agree, you want the game played the way you want it to be played and don't want consider other mechanics outside of what you want?

Again, what are you basing this on? YOU are the one that tries to change the game into something it's not, solely to fit your wishes. Not me.

1 minute ago, Salvatore.3749 said:

And you want the game played as it was initially presented? The whole reason for GW2, from launch, was solo gameplay without group parties.

No, it wasn't. AT THE VERY LEAST dungeons were always a thing. And then there was only more of that type of content.

1 minute ago, Salvatore.3749 said:

If you ever played GW1, you had to have a party to play content, heroes were implemented for that reason. 

This is not gw1.

1 minute ago, Salvatore.3749 said:

And honestly, you getting so emotional about this topic is interesting. I'm just glad there are other die hard GW2 fans in the franchise. 

Again, you're the only person here that tries to make false claim about me (when you said I'm "enforcing meta on other players", while I'm not and with the claim from your last point about me somehow "donating most of my time to gw2"). I'm not the one being emotional here and attacking other people with lies, like you're trying to do in multiple of your last posts.

1 minute ago, Salvatore.3749 said:

While I do think this system could work in some ways, I know it wouldn't work in other ways, especially if not done right. Again, I'll advocate for this type of system for instanced content only., story modes, living world, and dungeons. I know instanced content would include fractals, strikes, and raids, but I'll still hold the position that fractals, raids, and strikes wouldn't benefit from heroes. I'm not against preventing the use of heroes in fractals, strikes, and raids, but I doubt they would be effective in those scenarios.

No bots in gw2. Thanks.

[Salvatore.3749]

5 minutes ago, Kurrilino.2706 said:

Jumping puzzles already show how this could be done when it comes to mounts.

As soon as you come to a dedicated Worldboss area or something of importance, your henchman turn automatically off.

It's that easy

Good points to be honest! I almost brought that up because the skyscale and griffon make the hardest jumping puzzles in Tyria easy. 

[Sobx.1758]

7 minutes ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

This whole statement has no point whatsoever in why people that want to play by themselves, still should not have mercs.

How does it have no point? It's a direct response to what you said.

7 minutes ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

You only highlighted what you thought it would be credible to reinforce whatever point you're trying to make, as a way to convey to people that they should not have mercs because the game is an mmo.

The only reason I responded in that manner is because you're trying to pretend it's a single player game in your whole previous post. How is your initial post supposed to be valid but at the same time my response is supposed to be irrelevant is beyond me, so feel free to explain it to me.

Edited September 30, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Salvatore.3749]

15 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

1. Again, what are you basing this on? YOU are the one that tries to change the game into something it's not, solely to fit your wishes. Not me.
2. No, it wasn't. AT THE VERY LEAST dungeons were always a thing. And then there was only more of that type of content.
3. This is not gw1.
4. Again, you're the only person here that tries to make false claim about me (when you said I'm "enforcing meta on other players", while I'm not and with the claim from your last point about me somehow "donating most of my time to gw2"). I'm not the one being emotional here and attacking other people with lies, like you're trying to do in multiple of your last posts.

1. I read between the lines my guy. Look at the tone of your sentences, the structure, the anger in the words. The anger of the thought of some other player not wanting to play with you. You don't like change and that's okay. 
2. Dungeons haven't been worked on for a while. 
3. What false claim? The whole point of the thread was curiosity and using heroes for instanced content so people could play alone lol. You can't play with others if you don't have the meta or want to speed clears.
4. I'm not emotional at all. I'm being objective from your posts.  

I'm naturally object and just conversing, I'm not attacking anyone or trying to. If you feel attacked, I apologize because I just thought we were having a conversation until you started making these claims that I was attacking you. 

Also, I don't feel attacked at all. I'm just chilling right now. Whether or not this mechanic would be introduced, wouldn't really impact me since I primarily play PvP/WvW. 😀 

Edited September 30, 2021 by Salvatore.3749

[Salvatore.3749]

20 minutes ago, zombyturtle.5980 said:

 

Why say this then. You say heros are needed due to meta builds being required for t4 fractals, so clearly you want heros so you can do t4 fractals without others asking you to play meta. Therefore you will need to first solve the problems with heros being unable to complete all the movement based challenges before they will work in fractals.

If you just want them for personal story, which is already soloable then say that. 

It was an example for someone who may actually benefit from the system or enjoy using it to try something. 

I already said the work arounds that I thought could work. 

As for that last line, I said that already LOL. Scroll up and just read my posts. 

This system is for:

1. Story mode
2. Instanced content like dungeons
3. Maybe low tier fractals
   1. It cannot replace players
4. Possibly raids or strikes
   1. So what if it sucks for raids or strikes
5. To pay ANET

 

[Salvatore.3749]

Just to catch everyone up who is new to joining the thread and doesn't have time to read the previous posts. 

Numbers are in priority of where this could work.

I said this system could work for:

1. Story mode
2. Instanced content like dungeons and living world
3. Maybe low tier fractals
   1. It cannot replace players.
4. Possibly raids or strikes
   1. So what if it sucks for raids or strikes
5. To pay ANET

Edited September 30, 2021 by Salvatore.3749

[Sigmoid.7082]

8 minutes ago, Salvatore.3749 said:

1. The anger of the thought of some other player not wanting to play with you. You don't like change and that's okay. 

This line is fairly ironic to be fair.

[Salvatore.3749]

Just now, Sigmoid.7082 said:

This line is fairly ironic to be fair.

Kind of lol

[Ashantara.8731]

On 9/27/2021 at 8:08 PM, Salvatore.3749 said:

Out of curiosity, who would want a-mercenary system similar to that of Guild Wars 1?

If GW2 had adopted GW1's skill system, I'd be all for it! 🙂

However, GW2's skill system is way too complex and would make mercenaries mostly useless (unless the AI programming was truly top notch and highly complex). You would have to control them manually, and the hassle this would produce in fights (i.e., managing your NPC's skills alongside your own skill rotation) would be overwhelming, to say the least.

Edited September 30, 2021 by Ashantara.8731

[Salvatore.3749]

2 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

If GW2 had adopted GW1's skill system, I'd be all for it! 🙂

However, GW2's skill system is way too complex and would make mercenaries mostly useless (unless the AI programming would be top notch, i.e. highly complex). You would have to control them manually, and the hassle this would produce in fights (i.e., managing your NPC's skills alongside your own skill rotation) would be overwhelming, to say the least.

Totally could see that! It would work if we could have variations to our weapon skills to swap in and out of (sorry ele and warrior mains LOL).

But, seriously, that's the same concern I have. You need to have an easy to control system with a great simple UI. I talked about the Tales Ally Command Combat System being a similar system to use, but that was complex and has always been complex on other game systems  (PS2 and Gamecube are great examples). 

[Sobx.1758]

10 minutes ago, Salvatore.3749 said:

1. I read between the lines my guy. Look at the tone of your sentences, the structure, the anger in the words. The anger of the thought of some other player not wanting to play with you. You don't like change and that's okay. 

Do you? It seems to me you just like to tell yourself you're reading between the lines. Like in that post where you repeated what I said, while claiming it was you "reading between the lines". But it wasn't.

Similarly here, there's no anger in my words, I don't know where you came with that from, because it has nothing to do with reality. I know that, because I wrote those words and I know if I'm angry or not, lol. (btw that's another attempt at personally attacking me, so... who exactly is "emotional" here?)

10 minutes ago, Salvatore.3749 said:

1. Dungeons haven't been worked on for a while. 

Nice dodge, but let me repeat what I wrote:

No, it wasn't. AT THE VERY LEAST dungeons were always a thing. And then there was only more of that type of content.

In other words: as opposed to your claim, there was always a group-oriented content in gw2.

10 minutes ago, Salvatore.3749 said:

1. What false claim? The whole point of the thread was curiosity and using heroes for instanced content so people could play alone lol. You can't play with others if you don't have the meta or want to speed clears.

Um... literally what I quoted there?

Again, you're the only person here that tries to make false claim about me (when you said I'm "enforcing meta on other players", while I'm not and with the claim from your last point about me somehow "donating most of my time to gw2")

How could I possibly be any more clear about what I meant there? I specifically spelled it out.

And yes, you can play with others while not playing meta. This is happening constantly. Create/join your squads/parties accordingly to what you want to do.

10 minutes ago, Salvatore.3749 said:

1. I'm not emotional at all. I'm being objective from your posts.  

I'm naturally object and just conversing, I'm not attacking anyone or trying to. If you feel attacked, I apologize because I just thought we were having a conversation until you started making these claims that I was attacking you.

No, you've made up lies about me in this very thread. I specifically pointed that out, so don't pretend this didn't happen.

[SoulGuardian.6203]

10 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

How does it have no point? It's a direct response to what you said.

The only reason I responded in that manner is because you're trying to pretend it's a single player game in your whole previous post. How is your initial post supposed to be valid but at the same time my response is supposed to be irrelevant is beyond me, so feel free to explain it to me.

Because you are making it sound that because the game is an mmo, players have to play with other players.

Then you're wrong.

The option is there if you want to, and don't get me wrong; I like to play with other people as much as the next mmoer.

I'm not completely disregarding your oppinion; but there are times I enjoy being with other people, wvw and world bosses, for instance, and sometimes I just want to play on my own.

 

The option is there for a reason. 

You still have the freedom to play the game as you will.

 

Oh, and by the way, there are people commenting that some players want mercs because of the lack of skills. Ok, I already mentioned this, and let's not go there.

But I'll just say this.

Do you rather people have mercs so they are dependable on something they can work on by them selves, or people who attach to a guild and are constantly pestering others to help them out?

 

I personally, don't like to bother other players.

 

Besides, Here is the  main reason.

I have two screenshots of the verbal abuse I got in ibs champions, shiverpeaks map.

The fellow just decided to call me all names under the sun, and insult me because in his oppinion, I only did 1% damage to the boss while he disappeared somewhere else.

I can show you the screenshots of you like.

Do you think we should have to put up with that kind of behaviour?

Why should we?

What if it was a minor playing?

We should not have to tolerate that kind of behaviour. MMO or not.

That's why mercs would help in instances such as these.

 

Last note:

I've been trying to find a decent team to finish triple trouble for almost 3 years.

So far I haven't been able to.

Most die and give up; some run away, and some... well, simply just give up half way through.

 

 

[kharmin.7683]

4 minutes ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

Last note:

I've been trying to find a decent team to finish triple trouble for almost 3 years.

So far I haven't been able to.

Most die and give up; some run away, and some... well, simply just give up half way through.

 

 

Have you tried asking in https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/forum/25-players-helping-players/

[Cyndercat.7615]

32 minutes ago, Salvatore.3749 said:

It was an example for someone who may actually benefit from the system or enjoy using it to try something. 

I already said the work arounds that I thought could work. 

As for that last line, I said that already LOL. Scroll up and just read my posts. 

This system is for:

1. Story mode
2. Instanced content like dungeons
3. Maybe low tier fractals
   1. It cannot replace players
4. Possibly raids or strikes
   1. So what if it sucks for raids or strikes
5. To pay ANET

 

Story mode is already soloable. Dungeons have the same issues as fractals with movement based challenges and coordination challenges. See COF boulders, COE lazer puzzle. CM barrels. Granted they are smaller issues than modern content but the problem still exists. Remove the challenge or have it impossible to pass with heros, making them useless. Low tier fractals again still have the movement based puzzles that you STILL havnt given a solution for despite replying 3 times now. once more. Swampland wisps. Having NPC's teleport will not solve it. 

[Sobx.1758]

19 minutes ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

Because you are making it sound that because the game is an mmo, players have to play with other players.

Then you're wrong.

...again, the only reason I went in that direction was because your whole previous post tried to argue it's a single player game as long as it doesn't specifically tell you with words that you're supposed to play with the players. But the intention of the game and the content available within it is clear.

Quote

The option is there if you want to, and don't get me wrong; I like to play with other people as much as the next mmoer.

I'm not completely disregarding your oppinion; but there are times I enjoy being with other people, wvw and world bosses, for instance, and sometimes I just want to play on my own.

There is plenty of soloable content in the game for those times then. Everything doesn't need to be homogenized. Everything doesn't need to be soloable, especially in an mmorpg.

Quote

The option is there for a reason. 

You still have the freedom to play the game as you will.

Yes -and so do you, pick the content you play accodringly to your expectations. I don't see what's wrong with that approach.

19 minutes ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

Oh, and by the way, there are people commenting that some players want mercs because of the lack of skills. Ok, I already mentioned this, and let's not go there.

But I'll just say this.

Do you rather people have mercs so they are dependable on something they can work on by them selves, or people who attach to a guild and are constantly pestering others to help them out?

How can you bring up a topic on your own accord, say "lets not go there" and then... continue with "but I'll say this..."? You either want to go there or you don't.

I'll say this: if you want a 100% soloable game, picking mmorpg isn't a great idea due to the inherent nature of mmorpg games.

Edited September 30, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Salvatore.3749]

24 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Do you? It seems to me you just like to tell yourself you're reading between the lines. Like in that post where you repeated what I said, while claiming it was you "reading between the lines". But it wasn't.

Similarly here, there's no anger in my words, I don't know where you came with that from, because it has nothing to do with reality. I know that, because I wrote those words and I know if I'm angry or not, lol. (btw that's another attempt at personally attacking me, so... who exactly is "emotional" here?)

Nice dodge, but let me repeat what I wrote:

No, it wasn't. AT THE VERY LEAST dungeons were always a thing. And then there was only more of that type of content.

In other words: as opposed to your claim, there was always a group-oriented content in gw2.

Um... literally what I quoted there?

Again, you're the only person here that tries to make false claim about me (when you said I'm "enforcing meta on other players", while I'm not and with the claim from your last point about me somehow "donating most of my time to gw2")

How could I possibly be any more clear about what I meant there? I specifically spelled it out.

And yes, you can play with others while not playing meta. This is happening constantly. Create/join your squads/parties accordingly to what you want to do.

No, you've made up lies about me in this very thread. I specifically pointed that out, so don't pretend this didn't happen.

Hold up, I'm not making up lies about you, I'm quoting from your posts. 

From what I understand, is that you don't like the idea of this system because it will allow players to play alone and use this mechanic to replace other players. 

Essentially, when someone says they don't like something, they typically support it with other claims, facts, or their viewpoints. A viewpoint or claim is something to support why they don't agree with a mechanic.

Here, you have said that you don't like this mechanic and don't want it for GW2 because you believe it will ruin the game by allowing people to play solo or inhibit social interaction. You don't like the thought of the system, you think it won't work or it won't be feasible if implemented. Such statements are your viewpoints because you are using them to backup why you do not like this system and why it will not work. Further, you have asked multiple times how it could work and every time someone has provided thoughts on how it would work, you have responded with how it will not work, and supported such statements with hypothetical facts as to why it will not work. As a result, it's clear through your viewpoints and claims that you do not like this system and do not want it implemented.  Thus,  you really don't like this system. 

Clearly, you have advocated against this system for multiple reasons by stating several facts, claims, and other hypotheticals as to why it doesn't work, thus you don't like it. 

I have only responded to you because I wanted to understand your ideas and it seems like you are growing frustrated.  There others who have similar thoughts and don't want this system implemented because it will take away from player interaction. 

All I have done is suggest how this system could work and pointed out alternative solutions to how it could work. If we don't agree, we don't agree. It's okay, nothing is coming from this thread other than sheer curiosity on my end. I'm not attacking you or making up lies about you since your stance is that you don't want to see this system implemented because it will allow players to play alone. 

Edited September 30, 2021 by Salvatore.3749

[Salvatore.3749]

8 minutes ago, zombyturtle.5980 said:

Story mode is already soloable. Dungeons have the same issues as fractals with movement based challenges and coordination challenges. See COF boulders, COE lazer puzzle. CM barrels. Granted they are smaller issues than modern content but the problem still exists. Remove the challenge or have it impossible to pass with heros, making them useless. Low tier fractals again still have the movement based puzzles that you STILL havnt given a solution for despite replying 3 times now. once more. Swampland wisps. Having NPC's teleport will not solve it. 

Bruh, I did lol. Teleporting, commands to grab things (new one), follow behind, etc.

Like I said, it may not work well for fractals. 

[Cyndercat.7615]

2 minutes ago, Salvatore.3749 said:

Bruh, I did lol. Teleporting, commands to grab things (new one), follow behind, etc.

Like I said, it may not work well for fractals. 

And I have said over and over. Teleporting will not solve the issue. Have you even played fractals? You would know this will not work if you have.... 

 

So if heros wont work in fractals , raids and half the strikes and 1/4 of the dungeons, what is the point in them? For personal story? Its already soloable. 

[Rasimir.6239]

2 minutes ago, Salvatore.3749 said:

Like I said, it may not work well for fractals.

But if your mercs only work in instanced content to begin with, but don't work (well) in any of the more complex instances, isn't it a waste of development resources to even implement it? It's not like we're talking about a 5-minute dev project here.

[Rasimir.6239]

Just now, zombyturtle.5980 said:

So if heros wont work in fractals , raids and half the strikes and 1/4 of the dungeons, what is the point in them? For personal story? Its already soloable.

I'm trying to picture an ai plus command setup to make them any useful in the more complex living story fights ... Caudecus maybe? Or the golem from Sandswept Isles? The final instance of the Siren's Landing story?

[Salvatore.3749]

Just now, zombyturtle.5980 said:

And I have said over and over. Teleporting will not solve the issue. Have you even played fractals? You would know this will not work if you have.... 

 

So if heros wont work in fractals , raids and half the strikes and 1/4 of the dungeons, what is the point in them? For personal story? Its already soloable. 

I have. After PoF's release, I got bored with them. I'm actually well aware that teleporting won't work. 

I'm repeating myself. I said story and living world and included dungeons. I said fractals could be included, but it may not work well. 

The point is just to play for fun in instanced content. Dungeons aren't soloable, it would be cool to have your own party in a dungeon. It could work with flags, grabbing, and other stuff. You would have your own characters as mercenaries. 

I have pointed out other reasons. 

If it won't work for raids, fractals, and strikes, then it doesn't work.