Yet Another AFK Farming Post...

[mythical.6315]

4 minutes ago, Kurrilino.2706 said:

 

I don't think you really understand what i am saying.

The only thing i am doing is to show that the wording of the conduct rules technically make the whole PvP mode illegal.

I didn't say anything about bad apples or single someone out breaking rules.

The rules of conduct are written in a way that would prevent someone from actively trying to win or lose.

So everyone who participates in anything else than staying around breaks the rules of conduct.

 

What you do with this information is not of my business.

 

 

Standard rules for most PvP games and even competitive sports. 

[evlover.6270]

Regardless of the debate between afk/semi-afk, clearly taking a stand against multiboxing and making it punishable would be an obvious step into the right direction which would also be very easy to track. Would at least get rid of the people farming with multiple accs at once and leeching meta events while just autoattacking or placing minion necros/turret engis/mallyx revs somewhere. Whether people have 1 or 10 accs, I don't care, but they should be forced to play them 1 at a time. 

For the multiboxers that are going to defend their own behaviour again nonetheless: 

"As a general policy, ANY form of unattended gameplay is prohibited in Guild Wars 2. This includes:

The use of auto-casting abilities to farm while not at your computer or not actively playing the game."

When you're clearly only moving 1 account in a straight line one after another, and you just use minions to get event participation, it's obvious that you're not "not actively" playing the game. Being active on one client de facto means that you're inactive on your other clients (even though you might be watching them, you can't control them without changing your active client) unless you're macroing which is prohibited as well.

Reporting them is very time consuming as pretty much the only way at the moment is to record, report ingame, and make a support ticket with all the names and the record file as evidence as a recording is always the easiest way to spot them. It's nearly always a dead giveaway: standing on top of eachother, or clearly moving to the exact same location one by one, most of the time one with plenty of AP/masteries and the others just fresh accs with nearly no masteries, just a few to enable gliding.

If Anet would make a clear stand against it and adds a report button for multiboxing, it would be easier for people to report and notice that it's unwanted behaviour. Cause now there isn't a clear way to actually deal with them, you could argue whether it's allowed or not depending on how you interpret "playing actively" and whether or not they're dealth with is a grey area too. Because multiboxing itself is allowed, yet the activities they get engaged in (inactive gameplay) are not, so why allow multiboxing in the first place. It's like allowing people to buy a car, and then forbidding them to drive. You know they'll do it anyway until they get caught.

Is it really going to take until metas are cramped with multiboxers instead of just 1 or 2 every time until there will come a clear stand against them? 

Edited October 20, 2021 by evlover.6270
spacing

[Kurrilino.2706]

3 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

Standard rules for most PvP games and even competitive sports. 

 

Where did i sign those ???

 

I only remember accepting A-Net Eula/TOS

Edited October 20, 2021 by Kurrilino.2706

[Kurrilino.2706]

53 minutes ago, evlover.6270 said:

 

If Anet would make a clear stand against it and adds a report button for multiboxing, it would be easier for people to report and notice that it's unwanted behaviour. Cause now there isn't a clear way to actually deal with them, you could argue whether it's allowed or not depending on how you interpret "playing actively" and whether or not they're dealth with is a grey area too.

A-Net can't add the report button for Multiboxing because as soon as you click it, you violate 2 rules of conduct.

Since those 2 are based on Federal law, they can't even change the Rules of Conduct.

 

Beside that, they already sided with multi boxing by stating: you can use it as long as it it not in PvP.

 

Again, just because you don't like how other people are playing the game, doesn't make it illegal.

Asking to punish innocent people obeying the rules and laws is the reason why those AFK threads are locked down very fast

[Kurrilino.2706]

19 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

I'm confused.  So, the lamenters about price drops are TP Barons or they are not?

 

 

There is just a group of people who want to force higher prices on innocent players and the standing farmers are in their way.

This is why they try so desperately to get rid of everything that gives players alternatives to get their materials.

This has nothing to do with TP Barons, mostly those people are every day Joe farmers

[Kurrilino.2706]

1 hour ago, evlover.6270 said:

 

Reporting them is very time consuming as pretty much the only way at the moment is to record, report ingame, and make a support ticket with all the names and the record file as evidence as a recording is always the easiest way to spot them.

Lol, this is what you do in your spare time?

[Bollocks.4078]

3 minutes ago, Kurrilino.2706 said:

 

 

There is just a group of people who want to force higher prices on innocent players and the standing farmers are in their way.

This is why they try so desperately to get rid of everything that gives players alternatives to get their materials.

This has nothing to do with TP Barons, mostly those people are every day Joe farmers

 

What's the benefit of standing still while farming?  Wouldn't it be much more productive to move around?

[Kurrilino.2706]

5 minutes ago, Bollocks.4078 said:

 

What's the benefit of standing still while farming?  Wouldn't it be much more productive to move around?

 

I prefer standing there.

The question about productive and efficiency might be ask to someone else,

since i just prefer to play this way.

I am well aware that there are more productive and efficient ways to play the game.

 

In general i prefer the more relaxed play style. 

People can smash their heads in left and right on a battlefield. I just collect some resources and let the other guys do what they do best 

Edited October 20, 2021 by Kurrilino.2706

[Bollocks.4078]

2 minutes ago, Kurrilino.2706 said:

 

I prefer standing there.

The question about productive and efficiency might be ask to someone else

since i just prefer to play this way.

I am well aware that there are more productive and efficient ways to play the game.

 

In general i prefer the more relaxed play style. 

People can smash their heads in left and right on a battlefield. I just collect some resources and let the other guys do what they do best 

 

So you kill a few mobs around you and then twiddle your thumbs until they respawn rather than move a little?

[Cuks.8241]

It definitely makes the game look bad. I dont really care about market impact but it does give an impresion of some third grade game where the devs dont care anymore and only want to milk it before it dies. 

[mythical.6315]

18 minutes ago, Bollocks.4078 said:

 

What's the benefit of standing still while farming?  Wouldn't it be much more productive to move around?

Its so that they can do other things on another monitor, with the game minimized, or away from their computer entirely. 

[Kurrilino.2706]

16 minutes ago, Bollocks.4078 said:

 

So you kill a few mobs around you and then twiddle your thumbs until they respawn rather than move a little?

 

Absolutely.

 

This may occur strange since most of the people can't get enough rampaging on different maps but this is not me

[Kurrilino.2706]

17 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

It definitely makes the game look bad. I dont really care about market impact but it does give an impresion of some third grade game where the devs dont care anymore and only want to milk it before it dies. 

 

Why would you say this?

The developers don't do the Rules of conduct.

They actually have to obey them as well. If any, the rules of conduct have to change, which is not possible regarding to this particular topic

[Cuks.8241]

52 minutes ago, Kurrilino.2706 said:

 

Why would you say this?

Because that is my impression and that is how third grade mmos play out when bots  are left to run rampart without devs or gms intervention. 

I dont see how anything I wrote has anything to do with code of conduct. 

Also if bussiness is unable to change the code of conduct or related practices to increase or retain or just make customer happy its a bad bussiness and it will die. 

[Bollocks.4078]

1 hour ago, Kurrilino.2706 said:

 

Absolutely.

 

This may occur strange since most of the people can't get enough rampaging on different maps but this is not me

 

Not so much strange as illogical.  Seems like you are trying too hard to justify it.  You could casually mill about in a small area.  How are you getting from that to smash heads left and right on a battle field or rampaging on different maps?  I've casually farmed and moved around while doing it.  I wouldn't remotely call it rampaging or smashing heads.  Your extreme exaggeration on this doesn't make sense to me.

 

Sorry, but I'm a bit skeptical.  Something just doesn't make sense to me about what you are describing.  It seems like a waste of time and painfully boring to just stare at the screen waiting for the next mob to spawn.  Help me understand what I'm missing.

[Kurrilino.2706]

1 hour ago, Bollocks.4078 said:

 

Not so much strange as illogical.  Seems like you are trying too hard to justify it.  You could casually mill about in a small area.  How are you getting from that to smash heads left and right on a battle field or rampaging on different maps?  I've casually farmed and moved around while doing it.  I wouldn't remotely call it rampaging or smashing heads.  Your extreme exaggeration on this doesn't make sense to me.

 

Sorry, but I'm a bit skeptical.  Something just doesn't make sense to me about what you are describing.  It seems like a waste of time and painfully boring to just stare at the screen waiting for the next mob to spawn.  Help me understand what I'm missing.

 

Sorry, i just assume you read the whole thread.

 

In earlier post i actually explained how i play.

I play minion reaper and autoattack minions and assigned "rise" to the space bar. I have my feet up the table and press the spacebar with my toes.

Wile playing, i usually read a book or study for my certificates.

I am a years long Standing Farmer veteran and just enjoy to play this way even being aware this is not the most efficient way to play.

Compared to that relaxing way to play everything else appears as headsmashing 

Edited October 20, 2021 by Kurrilino.2706

[Kurrilino.2706]

1 hour ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Because that is my impression and that is how third grade mmos play out when bots  are left to run rampart without devs or gms intervention. 

I dont see how anything I wrote has anything to do with code of conduct. 

Also if bussiness is unable to change the code of conduct or related practices to increase or retain or just make customer happy its a bad bussiness and it will die. 

 

Well, the issue you critize is directly related to A-Net's rules of conduct which dictates what is allowed and what is not.

Sadly the rules that apply most are enforced by federal law. A-Net's hand are more or less tied in this particular issue.

The problem is that A-Net would have to prove beyond doubt that person X is AFK or uses 3rd party equipent.

Since this is incredible difficult, they practice to whispering person X and only suspend when not answering.

During this suspension, Player X can contest the suspension and the account will be released again.

 

This is as good as it gets and this is why it's so rare that an account is getting banned

 

 

[Bollocks.4078]

1 hour ago, Kurrilino.2706 said:

 

Sorry, i just assume you read the whole thread.

 

In earlier post i actually explained how i play.

I play minion reaper and autoattack minions and assigned "rise" to the space bar. I have my feet up the table and press the spacebar with my toes.

Wile playing, i usually read a book or study for my certificates.

I am a years long Standing Farmer veteran and just enjoy to play this way even being aware this is not the most efficient way to play.

Compared to that relaxing way to play everything else appears as headsmashing 

 

That sounds like automated farming, not actively farming.  How do you actively play while doing something else?  

[Rogue.8235]

On 10/19/2021 at 2:47 AM, TheGrimm.5624 said:

 

@Rogue.8235, I am not disagreeing that there are opportunities for players out there that are paying attention. I am supporting the active farmers over the AFK and botting farmers. I am not saying I agree with what they are farming or not. Again, not a farmer in this game. But to spin it on you. Once an AFK farmer knew your market and could AFK 24 hrs vesrus your 1, you would be good with it? I doubt that based on your post. 

 

I'm all about disincentivizing inattentive farming and agree that active gameplay is in the spirit of what the developers envision.  These are just opinions though and I'm not presenting it as facts.  I frown on the presentation of opinions as fact and the propogation of invalid premises.  

 

As for afk farmers farming "my market" that would be an incredible feat.  I watch all commodities.  AFK farmers would have to farm every material in the entire game to "encroach" on "my markets."  Further, if such a thing were to happen, I know how to adapt to supply and demand shocks to markets.  I also understand secondary derivative markets.  It's just more fun with regression and analysis for me.  Yes, I truly am a nerd like that.  Economic models are fun for me.  I'm one of the very few people on the planet that enjoys excel spreadsheets and Cartesian graphs (though I vehemently disagree with Descarts' proposition of self in isolation absent social factors, and especially his ontological argument in Meditations(.

 

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, Bollocks.4078 said:

 

That sounds like automated farming, not actively farming.  How do you actively play while doing something else?  

It is not automated they are actively pressing spacebar with their toes.

[Rogue.8235]

On 10/19/2021 at 6:17 PM, Kurrilino.2706 said:

 

I can easily do that, it's rule 23.

 

23. While participating in Player-vs-Player (PvP) gameplay in the Services, you will not participate in any form of match manipulation. Match manipulation is defined as any action taken to fix or manipulate the outcome of a match or alter or manipulate the rankings or ratings of the ladder. This also includes disrupting other users’ experiences in the Services by not actively participating in good faith

 

The natural status of a PvP match is draw.

The rule clearly states "any form of match manipulation -> which is any action to fix or manipulate the outcome of a match"

So trying to lose or trying to win both manipulate and alter the outcome of a match.

There is no rule or law that the purpose of the match is to win.

 

What the actual purpose of a PvP match is, remains unclear, since it's also not allowed to climb or drop on the leaderboards.

The only fact according to the rules, it is illegal

 

 

That really isn't good legal analysis.

First, You completely missed the boilerplate at the top which provides additional definitions and clarification in the User Agreement.  Also, the User Agreement supersedes the Code of Conduct.

Also, the User Agreement provides, in pertinent part:

Quote

...only the actual text of the User Agreement itself is legally binding.

[]

This User Agreement will be governed Washington State law, excluding choice of law rules. You and NCSOFT disclaim any application of the United Nations Convention on the International Sale of Goods. You and NCSOFT each consent to exclusive venue and jurisdiction of the courts located in King County, Washington. 

 

So, with this, your interpretation of Code of Conduct Rule 23 is completely incorrect.  Fraudulent activities concerning games are covered under Title 9 of the Revised Code of Washington (R.C.W.)..

"...Employ or attempt to employ any device, scheme, or artifice to defraud any other participant or any operator; [] Engage in any act, practice, or course of operation as would operate as a fraud or deceit upon any other participant or any operator...."  would define match manipulation as presented in the Code of Conduct paraphrasing of the User Agreement.  In addition, fraud is defined such that deceitful alteration is accounted for.  Furthermore, cheating of the first degree is defined, in part, as "...Knowingly causes, aids, abets, or conspires with another to engage in cheating...."  See 9 R.C.W. §§ 9.46.190, 9.46.196, 9.46.1961.

 

Therefore, match manipulation, defined as cheating, conspiracy, and fraud per title 9 of R.C.W., clarified with the phrase "...any action taken to fix or manipulate the outcome of a match or alter or manipulate the rankings or ratings of the ladder" is in clear violation of Washington State Law per the NCWest User Agreement.

 

Thus, merely playing Player versus Player (PvP) is not engaging in fraudulent activity that you incorrectly assert.

 

Edited October 21, 2021 by Rogue.8235
RCW needs dots because some old guys way back decided that codes of regulations need dots...

[Rogue.8235]

7 hours ago, Kurrilino.2706 said:

A-Net can't add the report button for Multiboxing because as soon as you click it, you violate 2 rules of conduct.

Since those 2 are based on Federal law, they can't even change the Rules of Conduct.

 

Beside that, they already sided with multi boxing by stating: you can use it as long as it it not in PvP.

 

Again, just because you don't like how other people are playing the game, doesn't make it illegal.

Asking to punish innocent people obeying the rules and laws is the reason why those AFK threads are locked down very fast

 

What are you even referring to?

Nothing in the Code of Conduct is "based on Federal Law" as it is clearly dictated that it is based on Washington state law in the NCWest User Agreement, which is the only legally binding document.

Seriously, what are you going on about?

[Kurrilino.2706]

2 hours ago, Bollocks.4078 said:

 

That sounds like automated farming, not actively farming.  How do you actively play while doing something else?  

 

By tapping my toes on the spacebar and enter key

[Kurrilino.2706]

1 hour ago, Rogue.8235 said:

 

What are you even referring to?

Nothing in the Code of Conduct is "based on Federal Law" as it is clearly dictated that it is based on Washington state law in the NCWest User Agreement, which is the only legally binding document.

Seriously, what are you going on about?

 

You are dead wrong.

I am talking about Code of Conduct rule:

7. You may not violate any local, state, national, or international laws or regulations in connection with your use of the Services.

(Both the Washingon State and the Constitution state someone being innocent until proven otherwhise beyond any doubt)

 

3. In connection with our Services, you may not use sexually explicit, harmful, threatening, abusive, defamatory, obscene, hateful, or racially or ethnically offensive language

(Accusing someone being AFK farmer without any evidence triggers at least those keywords)

 

In short, when you run around, calling random people AFK farmers without any evidence, you are not just violating 2 rules of conduct, you also violate federal and local law.

This is why A-Net closes those AFK threads relatively fast.

 

 

[Kurrilino.2706]

1 hour ago, Rogue.8235 said:

 

Thus, merely playing Player versus Player (PvP) is not engaging in fraudulent activity that you incorrectly assert.

 

 

Well here we go, i never at any time called PvP a fraudulent activity, you just make stuff up.

 

I only point out that PvP in general violates the Code of Conduct.

At no time did i claim it violates local or federal law.

As long as they don't change it or somehow include that the point of a PvP match is to try to win, PvP remains illegal

Edited October 21, 2021 by Kurrilino.2706