Love the concept of Untamed and how it works so far

[Arheundel.6451]

Never been one to follow the sycophant crowd...I do enjoy the functionality of untamed, I find it laughable those claims about hammer lacking dmg..but to each his own I guess, I have left a couple suggestions in a couple of threads but seen the reactions I can see where this community stands right now. I have to give it to Anet for steering clear from another boonbeast , this new spec is not straightforward but still enjoyable and useful once you get the idea behind it, this is not core ranger 2.0....it's rather a different gameplay option, I wished for a strong aoe build style on ranger for years so I am glad.

 

Again I am very happy that this espec is not a boonbeast 2.0 where people press a button (moa stance etc etc) and start facetanking damage, this untamed is a spec offering decent reward for decent effort in lining up attacks and that's how the whole game should be balanced around, I find myself experimenting with pets like gray wolf , which I haven't  used seriously since launch so kudos to the devs this time around.

 

With that said, the spec is not perfect ofc course and there are few critical errors which should absolutely fixed before launch: 

 

1) UNABLE TO SWITCH TARGET - it's rather tedious to use the uncommon tactic to switch target yourself and let pet follow you, currently the pet will stick to initally selected target...not a favourable situation

 

2) MORE OPTIONS TO KEEP PET ALIVE - I believe there should be at least 1 option to restore health to pet while in unleashed mode, possibly with Enveloping Haze - letting the pet leach health from targets within the sphere, just an idea

 

3) VENOMOUS OUTBURST - should be 1200 range and apply torment or bleeding

 

That's all really I have to report at the moment, but for me so far...untamed is worth buying EoD for, and I am glad...after the catalyst fiasco I was in doubt whether or not I should keep bothering with GW2...time to finally craft The Juggernaught I guess...

[Puck.3697]

tbh while i agree its fun to play.

- Unleashed mechanics need to be spread to the other weapons.. it harms build diversity massively and seriously limits weapon choice, if u end up using anything but hammer it will feel like its Core ranger.

- i like the New Elite.. but the CD is excessive.

- the aura needs changing.. it looks incredibly ugly.

- the pet unleashed abilities might be alittle too weak.

 

[Arheundel.6451]

3 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

tbh while i agree its fun to play.

- Unleashed mechanics need to be spread to the other weapons.. it harms build diversity massively and seriously limits weapon choice, if u end up using anything but hammer it will feel like its Core ranger.

- i like the New Elite.. but the CD is excessive.

- the aura needs changing.. it looks incredibly ugly.

- the pet unleashed abilities might be alittle too weak.

 

-We have precedent with other elites using their main weapon everywhere: weavers with sword and renegade with shortbow...I rarely see any of those two playing without the main weapon, personally I don't mind using hammer with untamed and it's better to reduce the balancing load, as I main ele too...I can guarantee you that more skills most times results in more nerfs, super weak skills and just not fun to play options

-I'd say reduce CD by 15s...that should be about right

-I don't mind about the aura, I am not a fashion icon

-Agree...the pet unleashed skills need something more in terms of utility, they're fine ...just a tad weak atm

[Puck.3697]

3 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

We have precedent with other elites using their main weapon everywhere: weavers with sword and renegade with shortbow...I rarely see any of those two playing without the main weapon, personally I don't mind using hammer with untamed and it's better to reduce the balancing load, as I main ele too...I can guarantee you that more skills most times results in more nerfs, super weak skills and just not fun to play options

dont get me wrong i actually really like the hammer.. its a very un-used weapon and i'd love to see it used more.. but it does feel limiting to have it this forced. i mean it kinda means if the hammer isnt the best choice.. i'd really question if it'd be used over soulbeast / Core

[Arheundel.6451]

5 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

dont get me wrong i actually really like the hammer.. its a very un-used weapon and i'd love to see it used more.. but it does feel limiting to have it this forced. i mean it kinda means if the hammer isnt the best choice.. i'd really question if it'd be used over soulbeast / Core

Imagine a GS/LB MM Untamed with KD utility and cage utility + entangle + aoe boon removal, you can play a ranged support CC machine( chaining with the CC cd reduction trait) alongside a boonbeast with stance share , I see two different gameplay options in this case. A hammer untamed + GS or axe/axe or sword/wh, a tanky set up with..."some pets" would offer a more mele oriented option for smaller skirmish.

 

We just need to improve the pet unleash options and possibly some better way to keep pet alive, possibly reducing the time the pet stays dead to 25s Cd rather than current number 

[Puck.3697]

5 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Imagine a GS/LB MM Untamed with KD utility and cage utility + entangle + aoe boon removal, you can play a ranged support CC machine( chaining with the CC cd reduction trait) alongside a boonbeast with stance share , I see two different gameplay options in this case. A hammer untamed + GS or axe/axe or sword/wh, a tanky set up with..."some pets" would offer a more mele oriented option for smaller skirmish.

sadly options are nice.. but often options Diminish if one is outright a better a choice then the other, Untamed has no unique Utility that the other speccs cant realistically enter so its gonna be a DPS disparity that'll set it apart.. its gonna depend if Untamed effectively can Equalise with Soulbeast in DPS.. and even if its On par with soulbeast.. will the Added problems from AI Just push Soulbeast ahead.

[AlexndrTheGreat.8310]

37 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

We have precedent with other elites using their main weapon everywhere: weavers with sword and renegade with shortbow...I rarely see any of those two playing without the main weapon

Weaver also has like, no other weapons to use. It's not that sword is the only weapon that interacts with the class mechanic, it's because they have nothing else to use in PvE. Only other weapons in PvE are staff for power which sucks, and dagger for condi which also sucks.

Similar with Renegade, they use shortbow because there's literally only two condi weapon sets at their disposal. They have nothing else to use because that's just how their utility and weapon toolkits are set up.

[Puck.3697]

I will also add.. the PvE DPS of the specc is defintly lower then Soulbeasts realistically.

[Shagie.7612]

10 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

I will also add.. the PvE DPS of the specc is defintly lower then Soulbeasts realistically.

That was probably always going to be the case.

In the same way Spellbreaker is intentionally mostly a PvP spec, Untamed is mostly a PvP spec by design.

[AlexndrTheGreat.8310]

10 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

I will also add.. the PvE DPS of the specc is defintly lower then Soulbeasts realistically

Correct.

As power we dont have any good offensive elite (no One Wolf Pack), and we also lose all the bonuses to being merged as SB (which *heavily* outweighs any damage the pet will do).

For condi, none of the traits affect condi damage. Vow of the Untamed says it has a 15% outgoing damage adjustment, but doesn't increase condi damage at all. Ferocious Symbiosis only affects power damage. So condi Untamed does the same damage as a condi base Ranger.

[Puck.3697]

7 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

That was probably always going to be the case.

In the same way Spellbreaker is intentionally mostly a PvP spec, Untamed is mostly a PvP spec by design.

which is fine really.. but i dont think it feels that strong In PvP realistically. I dunno if its realistically stronger then Core Valk Ranger build currently..

[Shagie.7612]

56 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

which is fine really.. but i dont think it feels that strong In PvP realistically. I dunno if its realistically stronger then Core Valk Ranger build currently..

Oh for sure. I don't disagree there at all. I'm just hoping people who wanted something PvE competitive manage their expectations accordingly. It's probably not likely to ever be top tier there, and what's supposed to be its strengths (being in your face, high CC) aren't particularly useful in most PvE.

As it stands, the concept is really cool, passing buffs could be pretty cool for some cyclical gameplay, but actual usefulness is... Maybe not so great.

 

[Puck.3697]

8 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

Oh for sure. I don't disagree there at all. I'm just hoping people who wanted something PvE competitive manage their expectations accordingly. It's probably not likely to ever be top tier there, and what's supposed to be its strengths (being in your face, high CC) aren't particularly useful in most PvE.

As it stands, the concept is really cool, passing buffs could be pretty cool for some cyclical gameplay, but actual usefulness is... Maybe not so great.

i think its rly cool in what it wants to achieve and im all good with it being primarily build for PvP.. just hopefully it succeeds as its current iteration needs a fair bit of work.

[nerva.7940]

the design of the spec is ok. i knew it would be when i saw the preview. but the bad number balancing make it unplayable for me. 

[Puck.3697]

6 minutes ago, nerva.7940 said:

the design of the spec is ok. i knew it would be when i saw the preview. but the bad number balancing make it unplayable for me. 

yeah its defintly missing parts.

i think the fact the unleashed mechanics hammer only is a missed opportunity but not the doom of the specc.. but its numbers need to be higher for sure.

[Obtena.7952]

2 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

I will also add.. the PvE DPS of the specc is defintly lower then Soulbeasts realistically.

I would be OK with that if swapping Unleash offered me a variety of options that would benefit me and my team, but that's not really the case. If you really want to take some DPS advantage on self-unleash, you need to take pets that can disable (anyone surprised Grey Wolf was a default pet on the beta character?). The alternative isn't too much a problem because disabling is baked into the regular hammer. 

I can't really see much of a place for this in PVE even for the disables. There are builds that disable more consistently and with less complication. 

And yes .. how did Anet not see the fartcloud ... renaming this spec "Unbathed". 

Edited October 27, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

I would be OK with that if swapping Unleash offered me a variety of options that would benefit me and my team, but that's not really the case. If you really want to take some DPS advantage on self-unleash, you need to take pets that can disable. The alternative isn't too much a problem because disabling is baked into the regular hammer. 

I can't really see much of a place for this in PVE even for the disables. There are builds that disable more consistently and with less complication. 

Eeh. it has no place anywhere relaistically.. 0 Support With lower performance then Soulbeast.. with or without options its in the grave as it stands

[Infusion.7149]

Post logs or gameplay instead of wild claims. Untamed starts with a weapon that doesn't have extreme coefficients, has a 15% max damage mod (without any mods from beastmastery line since you aren't merged) , and is partially reliant on pet AI for DPS.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

2 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Imagine a GS/LB MM Untamed with KD utility and cage utility + entangle + aoe boon removal, you can play a ranged support CC machine( chaining with the CC cd reduction trait) alongside a boonbeast with stance share , I see two different gameplay options in this case. A hammer untamed + GS or axe/axe or sword/wh, a tanky set up with..."some pets" would offer a more mele oriented option for smaller skirmish.

 

We just need to improve the pet unleash options and possibly some better way to keep pet alive, possibly reducing the time the pet stays dead to 25s Cd rather than current number 

 

I can imagine a GS/LB MM, and also know that it is in zero way shape or form a 'frontliner', so fundamentally the devs missed the mark if you are theorycrafting that.  I mean it also literally leaves out the hammer...so yeah...'take GS' is a GREAT selling point.

 

Also, I'm not sure about you but taking OG Empathetic Bond and making it into a heal skill doesn't scream 'I wanna go pre-order EoD right now!' to me at all.  

 

Anyway, I think I understand why the dude on the stream drinks so much water now...these specs are busted and he's gotta try to explain that away.  

[HeyHeyHey.9453]

5 hours ago, Shagie.7612 said:

That was probably always going to be the case.

In the same way Spellbreaker is intentionally mostly a PvP spec, Untamed is mostly a PvP spec by design.

This is a bad argument since about 4 years ago when they started splitting damage coefficients. There is NO reason they cannot make each elite have a bare minimum level of semi competitive DPS/usefulness in PvE 

Edited October 27, 2021 by HeyHeyHey.9453

[Arheundel.6451]

6 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

I will also add.. the PvE DPS of the specc is defintly lower then Soulbeasts realistically.

The utility and usefulness of a spec is way more important than DPS, soulbeast is just an eye candy dps spec, where the untamed is an aoe/control spec with respectable damage nevertheless

[Arheundel.6451]

4 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

I can imagine a GS/LB MM, and also know that it is in zero way shape or form a 'frontliner', so fundamentally the devs missed the mark if you are theorycrafting that.  I mean it also literally leaves out the hammer...so yeah...'take GS' is a GREAT selling point.

 

Also, I'm not sure about you but taking OG Empathetic Bond and making it into a heal skill doesn't scream 'I wanna go pre-order EoD right now!' to me at all.  

 

Anyway, I think I understand why the dude on the stream drinks so much water now...these specs are busted and he's gotta try to explain that away.  

Maybe you should try to re-read my post...after you clear your mind, you are clearly upset and not thinking straight

[Arheundel.6451]

5 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Post logs or gameplay instead of wild claims. Untamed starts with a weapon that doesn't have extreme coefficients, has a 15% max damage mod (without any mods from beastmastery line since you aren't merged) , and is partially reliant on pet AI for DPS.

If you want to dps race like a soulbeast to record a video and post on reddit....play a soulbeast, we needed better aoe access for ranger...and we've got it with Untamed. Outside of minor improvements, the concept is solid....if you think otherwise, you should multiclass and try catalyst at next beta....you'll realise what "bad elite" really means 

P.S

PvErs were the one wishing for a pet elite class, so they could roleplay as nature pet trainers, you've got exactly what you've asked for and before anything, PvErs were amply warned about the pitfalls of an elite pet spec.

Untamed is not the elite spec I wished for and made this openly clearly with several threads before the design inception and now...I adapt as all you should, other, the best that can happen now is for Anet to turn unleashed pets into the ethereal form  as I proposed ages ago...otherwise you lot, should not expect much other than some number changes

 

Edited October 27, 2021 by Arheundel.6451

[Levetty.1279]

5 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

If you want to dps race like a soulbeast to record a video and post on reddit....play a soulbeast, we needed better aoe access for ranger...and we've got it with Untamed. Outside of minor improvements, the concept is solid....if you think otherwise, you should multiclass and try catalyst at next beta....you'll realise what "bad elite" really means 

P.S

PvErs were the one wishing for a pet elite class, so they could roleplay as nature pet trainers, you've got exactly what you've asked for and before anything, PvErs were amply warned about the pitfalls of an elite pet spec.

Untamed is not the elite spec I wished for and made this openly clearly with several threads before the design inception and now...I adapt as all you should, other, the best that can happen now is for Anet to turn unleashed pets into the ethereal form  as I proposed ages ago...otherwise you lot, should not expect much other than some number changes

 

Untamed does not provide any significant aoe and ultimately its not a pet focused elite spec. I don't know why you keep saying these things. 

[Infusion.7149]

5 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

If you want to dps race like a soulbeast to record a video and post on reddit....play a soulbeast, we needed better aoe access for ranger...and we've got it with Untamed. Outside of minor improvements, the concept is solid....if you think otherwise, you should multiclass and try catalyst at next beta....you'll realise what "bad elite" really means 

P.S

PvErs were the one wishing for a pet elite class, so they could roleplay as nature pet trainers, you've got exactly what you've asked for and before anything, PvErs were amply warned about the pitfalls of an elite pet spec.

Untamed is not the elite spec I wished for and made this openly clearly with several threads before the design inception and now...I adapt as all you should, other, the best that can happen now is for Anet to turn unleashed pets into the ethereal form  as I proposed ages ago...otherwise you lot, should not expect much other than some number changes

 

So no gameplay or logs?

arcdps has WvW logs.

The only place I said I could see this maybe working is PVP teamfight but the numbers aren't there and CC do zero damage. There's no point in 5 target AoE if you can only hit 3 people on average at most in melee , with hammer the only weapon having unleashed at all.

Untamed doesn't even have a real stunbreak option meaning it is more or less core ranger without either beastmastery or marksmanship (you would still run Wilderness Survival unless you have outside supports).

Also I already posted my thoughts on catalyst. I play all 9 classes so I don't know what that part is about.

Edited October 27, 2021 by Infusion.7149