Aegis is bad for the game and it should be removed imo.

[Jski.6180]

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Stealth is very effective in dealing with damage. You can't get damaged if you won't get hit, and being invisible helps immensely with that.

But you get hit by aoe and cleave you also cant hit things during it. In a way its more balanced as a "block lock skill" (where you can only block and not attk) as an effect over all. Where the problem with aegis it is a "free" block that dose not take any thing away from your aggrieves skills. Made even worst that other ppl can put it on you.

[Alcatraznc.3869]

On 12/1/2021 at 3:59 PM, Jski.6180 said:

Stealth is no where near as strong in dealing with dmg like aegis is. Its not just dmg but all effects of on hit so even hard cc and soft cc.

 

And Aegis just break after whatever hit it receive. It can only be stacked on time which spamming aegis isnt really going to help you either. Guardian aside, there's no real Aegis spam from other class.

 

Meanwhile stealth is basically a middle finger to all skill that requires a target and there's no real form of counterplay like sound effect of visual effect. You use your instinct and hope you predicted correctly. And there's plenty of counterplay against aegis, from the auto attack to just converting the boon/stealing it. Against stealth there are not many tool to reveal your target while it's in stealth. Some class can apply the debuff like ranger's seekem but once you're in stealth, what can reveal you ? There used to be a mass reveal skill on Scrapper's belt but it got removed. 

 

I would much rather deal with Aegis than stealth any day.

[Jski.6180]

6 hours ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

 

And Aegis just break after whatever hit it receive. It can only be stacked on time which spamming aegis isnt really going to help you either. Guardian aside, there's no real Aegis spam from other class.

 

Meanwhile stealth is basically a middle finger to all skill that requires a target and there's no real form of counterplay like sound effect of visual effect. You use your instinct and hope you predicted correctly. And there's plenty of counterplay against aegis, from the auto attack to just converting the boon/stealing it. Against stealth there are not many tool to reveal your target while it's in stealth. Some class can apply the debuff like ranger's seekem but once you're in stealth, what can reveal you ? There used to be a mass reveal skill on Scrapper's belt but it got removed. 

 

I would much rather deal with Aegis than stealth any day.

1 block is fine but the spam of blocks from aegis is a problem. Its Guardian class that is in question here as well as support aegis.

Stealth has problem for sure but you cant do dmg during the effect (what realty makes the stealth effect broken is being able to self support / aoe support during stealth with out braking stealth). That the thing about Aegis you can do dmg and support skills during its effect with out any means of truly dealing with it. Other skills that block are often channl skill that very much stop a lot of effects.

You have to deal with aegis spam and stealth spam every day now both things can be true at the same time this is not an vs.

[Zenith.7301]

8 hours ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

 

And Aegis just break after whatever hit it receive. It can only be stacked on time which spamming aegis isnt really going to help you either. Guardian aside, there's no real Aegis spam from other class.

 

Meanwhile stealth is basically a middle finger to all skill that requires a target and there's no real form of counterplay like sound effect of visual effect. You use your instinct and hope you predicted correctly. And there's plenty of counterplay against aegis, from the auto attack to just converting the boon/stealing it. Against stealth there are not many tool to reveal your target while it's in stealth. Some class can apply the debuff like ranger's seekem but once you're in stealth, what can reveal you ? There used to be a mass reveal skill on Scrapper's belt but it got removed. 

 

I would much rather deal with Aegis than stealth any day.

 

 

Sic' Em means nothing anyways because thief has a skill that removes "Revealed", defeating the entire purpose of the Revealed debuff.

 

It's a total joke and why thief is so abused in WvW, it's a class that cannot be punished because they can reset the fight at will with no consequence for playing badly.

[Puck.3697]

On 11/28/2021 at 12:55 PM, Zenith.7301 said:

It literally does matter, because it seems like you don't understand that MMO's are played in a social context, and what you are allowed to play depends on the social dynamics of the group you care to join. It's like you purposely blocked out the fact ranger and necromancer were routinely excluded from PvE for 5+ years until HoT happened and druid came in, and they had to make an exclusive boon to make mesmer desirable in PvE as well

You can't put balance and player perception in the same sentence. The fact Anet once tried to is why scourge is overpowered now. 

I'm sorry but no. When we are talking micro balancing and that is what meta is. Its in no format possible you bring up FFXIV. But u forget to mention FFXIV has no speccs or diversity in its classes. 

If you are a ninja you are a ninja. You don't specc it into something it has no alternative playstyles it has no elites. It's so close in balance because of this simplistic design. 

Majority of gw2 imbalances in PvE are down to not every option working. Not the fact the proffession has no answer for something. 

 

[Jski.6180]

I think it comes down to that aegis stops every thing not just dmg but hard cc as well. We like to pretend that hard cc is mostly unblock-able but there a fair bit in the game that is very much block-able. Its in effect another stab that unhinges the balancing of low dmg cc vs high dmg hits. Its made worst with high number of targets hit for support and relative low cd.

[Kodama.6453]

On 12/2/2021 at 10:39 AM, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

There used to be a mass reveal skill on Scrapper's belt but it got removed. 

Not removed, just moved to another skill. It is now the toolbelt skill of the utility goggles.

But utility goggles suck pretty much and the toolbelt does absolutely nothing but revealing targets, meaning that it is also highly situational. So yeah, you will not encounter this skill pretty often.

[Zenith.7301]

7 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

You can't put balance and player perception in the same sentence. The fact Anet once tried to is why scourge is overpowered now. 

I'm sorry but no. When we are talking micro balancing and that is what meta is. Its in no format possible you bring up FFXIV. But u forget to mention FFXIV has no speccs or diversity in its classes. 

If you are a ninja you are a ninja. You don't specc it into something it has no alternative playstyles it has no elites. It's so close in balance because of this simplistic design. 

Majority of gw2 imbalances in PvE are down to not every option working. Not the fact the proffession has no answer for something. 

 

 

 

FFXIV may have a single class, but its PvE rotational depth and encounter design and optimization are so much more advanced than what GW2 currently has, so your point is kind of moot.

 

A dragoon in FFXIV has a 30 skill sequence rotation. Not even condi renegade in its best optimized would match that level of complexity.

 

FFXIV also has a working healer system, with damage triage, as well as a tank system to balance too. In GW2 healing is so utterly unskilled and simplistic, as is tanking in the few encounters where it happens is no better.

 

So to claim that GW2 developers have such a harder job in balancing when their PvE design is so utterly shallow compared to FFXIV is not going to fly.

 

The reason GW2 balance is what it is is because they push out marginal changes every 7 months, that often don't even address the actual problems. They don't even bother to have a Public Test Realm for player feedback before implementing changes. they just don't care.

 

WoW has completely sabotaged itself as bad as it's going to ever be, and instead of aiming to grab players from it by investing into organized PvE design, GW2 developers have doubled down on neglecting organized PvE content in yet more favor of the braidnead open world PvE that has marginal shelf life because the content gets cleared trivially and players will just move on or quit instead of organized PvE where week long progressions through bosses keep players engaged with the content.

Raids and fractals are the only content people will watch this game's streams for, and yet Anet barely supports it, in balancing and rewards. This company sabotages itself far worse than Blizzard is doing.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Zenith.7301

[Puck.3697]

47 minutes ago, Zenith.7301 said:

FFXIV may have a single class, but its PvE rotational depth and encounter design and optimization are so much more advanced than what GW2 currently has, so your point is kind of moot

I'm not saying gw2 is superior in design I am actually a massive fan of FFXIV design. My point was simply that's the reason FFXIV can balance so well and gw2 can't. But it's not rectifiable at this point. 

48 minutes ago, Zenith.7301 said:

So to claim that GW2 developers have such a harder job in balancing when their PvE design is so utterly shallow compared to FFXIV is not going to fly

But it does because their design allows balance. Gw2s doesn't 

 

48 minutes ago, Zenith.7301 said:

reason GW2 balance is what it is is because they push out marginal changes every 7 months, that often don't even address the actual problems. They don't even bother to have a Public Test Realm for player feedback before implementing changes. they just don't care

This wouldn't get balance. But it'd change it up enough regularly to make proffessions not feel like a wrong choice so would be a improvement 

[BobbyT.7192]

On 12/2/2021 at 2:23 PM, Zenith.7301 said:

 

Sic' Em means nothing anyways because thief has a skill that removes "Revealed", defeating the entire purpose of the Revealed debuff

That's only for deadeyes, core/daredevil won't have that. Either way, nothing wrong about a skill that counters another.

[Zenith.7301]

11 hours ago, BobbyT.7192 said:

That's only for deadeyes, core/daredevil won't have that. Either way, nothing wrong about a skill that counters another.

 

 

It does when the sources and cd of stealth far outstrip the skills to reveal it.

[Yumenei.7943]

21 hours ago, Zenith.7301 said:

 

 

It does when the sources and cd of stealth far outstrip the skills to reveal it.

You are willingly ignoring the fact that "Sic 'Em!" is rarely taken just for its reveal ability and more often picked for its damage increase. Besides; if you are a thief all it really takes is just one mistake and you are melted by LB2's burst. Sic 'Em is just a cherry on top of it.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Yumenei.7943

[ScottBroChill.3254]

Yeah I think the issue with aegis/guardian is that Anet has now found themselves in the position they were trying to avoid by removing the trinity. Aegis has become such a crutch that anything organized is going to save a spot for guardian for this one effect because it is so powerful it allows players to avoid mechanics and generally just play bad and get away with it because they are carried by aegis. Every other class has a flavor and something they bring to the table, but none of them have these must have effects that guardian provides. At least with other boons like quickness and alacrity you get a couple options of builds to bring to a team who can provide it. Every lfg is "looking for x amount of dps and 2 guardians" which shouldn't be the case. And they make encounters based around aegis and the 2 dodge system, which is also why classes that take away a dodge are kinda crippled for some harder pve content. If they made more content attrition based you would see an increase in big healer and condi cleanse classes like tempest and whoever else clears massive condis, but most things are just dodging the big attacks and face tanking all the smaller ones which makes aegis invaluable and 2 dodges almost mandatory, even though aegis can cover for those who lack a dodge, making aegis even more enticing.

I want to also state that I'm aware I'm making some big generalizations, but I think the main sentiment remains true. 

[The Boz.2038]

At-will full-team block and stability is perverse. It actively devolves the game.

"We could take a tempest healer for this raid... but guardian has aegis and stab. We could also take druid! But aegis and stab. Maybe a heal scrapper? He has some tiny bit of stab on a half minute cooldown, right? That should totally work, right?"

At-will team-wide aegis and stability are two enormous weights on the scale, upon which is piled on a fairly nice amount of healing (but not as nice as others). No other support class measures up to "heals, stabs, aegis" in 80% of the content. Tempest's huge heals and condi cleanses? It could literally give out full coverage of might, fury, *and quickness*, and it won't knock guardian off the spot. Maybe supplant, like, the alacren, but never touch guardian.

It's perverse.

[Obtena.7952]

31 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

At-will full-team block and stability is perverse. It actively devolves the game.

"We could take a tempest healer for this raid... but guardian has aegis and stab. We could also take druid! But aegis and stab. Maybe a heal scrapper? He has some tiny bit of stab on a half minute cooldown, right? That should totally work, right?"

At-will team-wide aegis and stability are two enormous weights on the scale, upon which is piled on a fairly nice amount of healing (but not as nice as others). No other support class measures up to "heals, stabs, aegis" in 80% of the content. Tempest's huge heals and condi cleanses? It could literally give out full coverage of might, fury, *and quickness*, and it won't knock guardian off the spot. Maybe supplant, like, the alacren, but never touch guardian.

It's perverse.

It's only perverse for people that are restricting their team comps based on what is optimal.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Obtena.7952