Lack of content reveals due to "spoilers" is starting to feel like an excuse.

[Ashantara.8731]

4 minutes ago, SunRoamer.5103 said:

I am pretty sure that if this were a thing, we would have been told about it already.

No, I disagree. They don't seem to have an exact release date yet, therefore they can't give us a date for the pre-release beta weekend, either.

[Tachenon.5270]

2 hours ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

You know what ACTUALLY looks bad to new players? People constantly posting negative comments putting down everything anet does

 

I disagree. One of the first things I do when considering a new game is look for the negative feedback. I like having some idea of what people are complaining about. Is it something that's going to bother me? Nothing is perfect and I don't expect it to be, so if a game's official forums are jam-packed with sunshine and roses? Pfft. Sus. Gimme the dirt.

[Kayberz.5346]

3 minutes ago, Tachenon.5270 said:

 

I disagree. One of the first things I do when considering a new game is look for the negative feedback. I like having some idea of what people are complaining about. Is it something that's going to bother me? Nothing is perfect and I don't expect it to be, so if a game's official forums are jam-packed with sunshine and roses? Pfft. Sus. Gimme the dirt.

I dont think multiple paragraphs complaining about the shade of green the grass is or being upset about not being spoonfed a story synopsis of the expansion qualifies as complaints that a new player would look at as effecting their enjoyment of the game

But it does paint a picture that the community is filled with a bunch of negative and vitriolic children with nothing better ho do but nitpick everything and very loudly and frequently share their opinion at every chance they get

[AgentMoore.9453]

7 minutes ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

But it does paint a picture that the community is filled with a bunch of negative and vitriolic children with nothing better ho do but nitpick everything and very loudly and frequently share their opinion at every chance they get

Comments like these just tell me that parts of the community can't discuss disagreements without taking jabs. This puts our community in line with every other game community out there, so at least there's that. People not liking things or not being excited by them isn't an invalidation or attack on your joy and hype - it just means you have differing opinions, and that's okay. Let people feel how they feel. Love the things you love and accept that there will always be someone who disagrees.

As for the OP, I'm getting the same impression of the expansion. I'm trying not to deliver any final judgments on EoD (since of course, it's not out yet), but for me there really isn't any hype being generated by the streams and teasers: I don't like the specs very much, the maps are pretty hard on my eyes, and the lore has a lot to answer for if it's going to try to resolve the Canthan genocides and a massive uptick in tech development. I'm interested in fishing, but apart from AP and general exploration, this feels like the weakest of the three expansions just based on the things we've been shown. The streams feel empty because, even though they're showing 'a lot', I don't feel like I'm actually seeing anything to warrant how long some of these sessions are.

With HoT we had the LS lead-up and then a journey to a deep jungle full of creatures and cultures we hadn't seen before. With PoF we had a steady story lead-up and journey to a desert that's been sealed away from Central Tyria for over a hundred years, again filled with sights unseen. With EoD we do a bunch of things up north with Aurene and then.. somehow go to Cantha. It's still a far-off land with new things, but the journey (so far) doesn't feel the same. We don't have that 'to be continued' anticipation, just a vague 'Huhaa! A bunch of magic went somewhere maybe!' at the end of IBS (which, for a lot of people, felt very unsatisfying for a finale).

If this were the end of a book and an author were trying to sell another in the series, I probably wouldn't as enthused to run out and buy it right away.

Putting aside completely the visuals, mechanics, and concerns about EoD being 'rushed', Cantha hasn't managed to excite me in the same way Elona and Maguuma did. Does it mean I won't enjoy EoD? No idea, haven't played it yet. Does it mean the marketing for it isn't resonating with me? Yeah.

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Tachenon.5270 said:

I disagree. One of the first things I do when considering a new game is look for the negative feedback. I like having some idea of what people are complaining about. Is it something that's going to bother me? Nothing is perfect and I don't expect it to be, so if a game's official forums are jam-packed with sunshine and roses? Pfft. Sus. Gimme the dirt.

Sure, if you're looking for a somewhat constructive/meaningful feedback, then you might be right. But here the complaint is... "the exact, detailed reason of arriving to cantha will be at the beginning of EoD story instead of at the end of IBS". As a complaint related to the new player experience, who will be able to play the expansions back-to-back on top of having all the spoilers they want available at will, this is worthless.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Faridah.8431]

The real problem is that even if the previous expansions technically showed us less leading into them, we actually had a better idea of why we were going into each expansion. Season 1 and 2 lead into HoT. We knew the premise. i.e. The Pact Fleet just got destroyed, pursuing Mordremoth. Season 3 lead into PoF. Again, we knew the basic premise. i.e. Chasing Balthazar into the desert to stop him. 

We have none of that with EoD as IBS did not in any way lead us towards the expansion, and so far we don't have any in-game reason for going to Cantha, and they have yet to provide any sort of basic premise in this regard. There was no lead in with the Aetherblades, or Aurene maybe learning of Kuunavang, or Cantha opening trade again, or something happening with the Deep Sea Dragon. Then everything they show it's "spoilers". It's creating a huge disconnect. So far the premise is "go back to Cantha from Factions guise!" Ok, I am actually happy for that....but why? And if I was a new player coming into GW2 for the first time, what exactly are they marketing to me?

And let's talk trailers. HoT and PoF both had excellent trailers showing both features like gliding and mounts, but also a clear story premise while showcasing the locales. The EoD trailer by comparison is extremely vague, shows very little of actual locales, does show skiffs and fishing. It's just...what are we doing in this expansion? Huge disconnect in my mind. About the best clue we have is the title of the expansion, but why would you just lead with the expansion's ending as the premise?

The whole thing just feels weird in execution.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Faridah.8431

[Sobx.1758]

3 minutes ago, Faridah.8431 said:

The real problem is that even if the previous expansions technically showed us less leading into them, we actually had a better idea of why we were going into each expansion. Season 1 and 2 lead into HoT. We knew the premise. Season 3 lead into PoF. Again, we knew the basic premise.

We have none of that with EoD as IBS did not in any way lead us towards the expansion, and so far we don't have any in-game reason for going to Cantha, and they have yet to provide any sort of premise in this regard. Then everything they show it's "spoilers". It's creating a huge disconnect. So far the premise is "go back to Cantha from Factions guise!" Ok, I am actually happy for that....but why?

What do you think happened with the primord/jormag dragon magic?

[Faridah.8431]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

What do you think happened with the primord/jormag dragon magic?

Well at this point, my guess is now it will have something to do with dragon jade. 🤷‍♂️

Technically speaking, we don't know yet.

[Sobx.1758]

9 minutes ago, Faridah.8431 said:

Well at this point, my guess is now it will have something to do with dragon jade. 🤷‍♂️

Technically speaking, we don't know yet.

Yes, but technically speaking, it clearly is a lead, which will be followed at the beginning of the eod. And it probably makes more sense for us to not exactly know before we're able to play eod.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Fueki.4753]

7 minutes ago, Faridah.8431 said:

Well at this point, my guess is now it will have something to do with dragon jade. 🤷‍♂️

Technically speaking, we don't know yet.

For all we know, the magic flowing to Cantha, rather than literally anywhere else, might just have been an arbitrary decision to sell Cantha.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Fueki.4753

[Sobx.1758]

3 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

For all we know, the magic flowing to Cantha, rather than literally anywhere else, might just have been an arbitrary decision to sell Cantha.

Literally any reason they'd give behind going to cantha could be called "an arbitrary decision to sell cantha". Some people are just complaining for the sake of complaining 🤦‍♂️

 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Faridah.8431]

3 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

For all we know, the magic flowing to Cantha, rather than literally anywhere else, might just have been an arbitrary decision to sell Cantha.

Yeah all I am saying is some clear lead in/premise for the beginning like we got with both previous expansions would have been nice. I get IBS to EoD is weird and was not a planned transition given how that all went down, but because of this, the overall premise for the expansion outside of "Return to Cantha" or the ending premise of it being the "end of dragons" is rather vague and unclear.

I would hate to be a new person completely unfamiliar with the franchise and game. What exactly is EoD marketing to such people. To the rest of us, so far it's nostalgia?

[Sobx.1758]

6 minutes ago, Faridah.8431 said:

Yeah all I am saying is some clear lead in/premise for the beginning like we got with both previous expansions would have been nice. I get IBS to EoD is weird and was not a planned transition given how that all went down, but because of this, the overall premise for the expansion outside of "Return to Cantha" or the ending premise of it being the "end of dragons" is rather vague and unclear.

How did you arrive at the conclusion that there was no planned transition between ibs and eod? That just seems false. It makes sense to know the reason of going to cantha when we can actually go there, which is the beginning of eod story.

6 minutes ago, Faridah.8431 said:

I would hate to be a new person completely unfamiliar with the franchise and game. What exactly is EoD marketing to such people. To the rest of us, so far it's nostalgia?

And there it is, pretending it's about new players again. New player doesn't care about cantha as much as you do, it's just another expansion/land to discover. New player will play the expansions/story in order, going directly from one to the other. And if they don't, then it makes more sense to have the reason of going to cantha given at the start of EoD, in case they didn't have the previous content. Stop pretending you worry about new players here, it has nothing to do with that and people trying to use new player experience where it's irrelevant is just a bit too transparent.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Fueki.4753]

5 minutes ago, Faridah.8431 said:

Yeah all I am saying is some clear lead in/premise for the beginning like we got with both previous expansions would have been nice. I get IBS to EoD is weird and was not a planned transition given how that all went down, but because of this, the overall premise for the expansion outside of "Return to Cantha" or the ending premise of it being the "end of dragons" is rather vague and unclear.

I would hate to be a new person completely unfamiliar with the franchise and game. What exactly is EoD marketing to such people. To the rest of us, so far it's nostalgia?

If they tried catering to nostalgia, they utterly failed it by completely destroying both the GW1 image of Cantha and the image of Cantha they portrayed within GW2 up to the announcement. The Cantha they now try to sell us is completely different than what people advocating for Cantha wanted to see.

Also, the transition from Season 5 to season 6 was equally weird and unexpected.

[Faridah.8431]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

How did you arrive at the conclusion that there was no planned transition between ibs and eod? That just seems false. It makes sense to know the reason of going to cantha when we can actually go there, which is the beginning of eod story.

Look at the previous Living World seasons and their lead into their respective expansions.

Season 1 led to Mordremoth's awakening which transitioned into Season 2 which dealt with the aftermath of his awakening and building up of his threat, prompting The Pact to act, but subsequently get destroyed. And that setup the premise for HoT.

Season 3 dealt with Balthazar returning and wanting to absorb Elder Dragon power to regain his full power, but at the time we knew that would have disastrous consequences to Tyria. The season set up PoF in that he was now pursuing Kralk into the desert and we needed to follow him to stop him.

Icebrood Saga had no setup or transition into a premise for End of Dragons.

[Sobx.1758]

1 minute ago, Faridah.8431 said:

Look at the previous Living World seasons and their lead into their respective expansions.

Season 1 led to Mordremoth's awakening which transitioned into Season 2 which dealt with the aftermath of his awakening and building up of his threat, prompting The Pact to act, but subsequently get destroyed. And that setup the premise for HoT.

Season 3 dealt with Balthazar returning and wanting to absorb Elder Dragon power to regain his full power, but at the time we knew that would have disastrous consequences to Tyria. The season set up PoF in that he was now pursuing Kralk into the desert and we needed to follow him to stop him.

Icebrood Saga had no setup or transition into a premise for End of Dragons.

This doesn't answer the quesiton and ignores what I wrote entirely.

The magic going somewhere else is already a set up. Just because you don't like it and want to have the story spoiled, doesn't somehow make it not planned.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Faridah.8431]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

This doesn't answer the quesiton and ignores what I wrote entirely.

Umm am I missing something? IBS ended with two Elder Dragon's deaths and nothing to do with Cantha. Are you purposefully being obtuse?

Edited December 7, 2021 by Faridah.8431

[Sobx.1758]

1 minute ago, Faridah.8431 said:

Umm am I missing something? IBS ended with two Elder Dragon's deaths and nothing to do with Cantha.

Nothing in the story needs to point directly at cantha when we can't go there anyways. That would make less sense than how it is now.

You seem to be mistaking "unplanned continuation of the story" (which is what you falsly claim it is) with "they didn't spell out CANTHA to us in IBS story!" (which is what you're actually weirdly fixated on for some reason). 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Faridah.8431]

3 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

The magic going somewhere else is already a set up. Just because you don't like it and want to have the story spoiled, doesn't somehow make it not planned.

Who said I wanted the whole story spoiled? That is not at all what I have been saying. And to ignore the clear transitions previous LW seasons had to their respective expansions and the lack of a similar setup/transitions for IBS to EoD seems weird to me.

[LegendsOfTheWist.7591]

Matthew Medina talked about the abrupt ending to the IBS in a Guild Chat a while back.  What he said, if I'm not misremembering, is that ArenaNet were "gifted" with the "opportunity" to do an expansion.  It was about as passive-aggressive as I've ever seen him be.  Frankly, if there were a planned transition from LS5 it wasn't to EoD.  It was to LS6. 

End of Dragons threw a monkey wrench into the entire pacing, which is to say that there was no transition.  I'm getting pretty tired of watching you two bicker, but wanted to toss my opinion into the fray.  The truth is that for players that want to play through the game in chronological order which isn't an insignificant number, the jump from LS5 to End of Dragons isn't a "jump" - it's a leap of faith across a chasm of narrative abandonment caused by NCSoft's executive decision to pull the floor out from under ArenaNet's plan for the living story - Not EoD - LS6.

[Sobx.1758]

8 minutes ago, Faridah.8431 said:

Who said I wanted the whole story spoiled? That is not at all what I have been saying.

That's pretty ironic. Where did I say you want the whole story spoiled?

Quote

And to ignore the clear transitions previous LW seasons had to their respective expansions and the lack of a similar setup/transitions for IBS to EoD seems weird to me.

Stop focusing on what was 5 years ago and start responding to the posts you're quoting, please. If your only argument is "THAT'S HOW IT WAS!" then you very obviously understand what you're doing by running from actually responding to my posts. Right now you just blatantly keep dodging.

 

6 minutes ago, LunarRXA.5062 said:

End of Dragons threw a monkey wrench into the entire pacing, which is to say that there was no transition. 

Nah, there is a transtion, the difference is that they skipped right to the end. Which is different then no transition between ibs/eod. And their complaint -as far as I understand throughout this thread- is not being pointed directly at cantha right at the end of ibs, which is far from needed if we'll get pointed there at the beginning of eod story, when we can actually go there.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Faridah.8431]

20 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Just because you don't like it and want to have the story spoiled, doesn't somehow make it not planned.

 

10 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

That's pretty ironic. Where did I say you want the whole story spoiled?

Umm literally right there.

Anyway, I made my opinion as a player who does play the story in order known, I see no point in continuing to bicker with you as you seem to want to be purposefully obtuse. I fully agree with @LunarRXA.5062 post.

[Sobx.1758]

6 minutes ago, Faridah.8431 said:

Umm literally right there.

Umm, nothing there said anything about "whole story", but for some reason you're asking me "where did you want whole story spoiled"? You didn't use "whole story" before and neither did I. Then suddenly you turned around and start asking me why I'm talking about "whole" story. What was that about being purposefully obtuse?

Quote

Anyway, I made my opinion as a player who does play the story in order known, I see no point in continuing to bicker with you as you seem to want to be purposefully obtuse. I fully agree with @LunarRXA.5062 post.

Sure, keep dodging. Again, we'll be pointed directly at cantha at the beggining of eod story, when we'll actually be able to go there, which is why it will make more sense than what you want here.

Yes, you've made my opinion "as a player who does play the story in order know" (which doesn't change anything I said above btw?), but then again you were also trying to pretend you were worried about new players' experience. As I said, using "hypothetical new players" in situations like this one is just too transparent as it makes no sense.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Faridah.8431]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Umm, nothing there said anything about "whole story", but for some reason you're asking me "where did you want whole story spoiled"? You didn't use "whole story" before and neither did I. Then suddenly you turned around and start asking me why I'm talking about "whole" story. What was that about being purposefully obtuse?

Sure, keep dodging. Again, we'll be pointed directly at cantha at the beggining of eod story, when we'll actually be able to go there, which is why it will make more sense than what you want here.

Last post I'll make replying to you.

You seem to want to argue a semantics battle to skirt around any points.

As for your other point, obviously something will happen at the beginning of EoD to take us to Cantha. How is this at all relevant to anything I said about how they are going about this. Again, they keep hiding everything as "spoilers", so the fact we don't even have a basic setup leading into the expansion is odd and my point has been how this is different from the previous two expansions. But sure, keep trying to argue it's what...not different?

[Sobx.1758]

10 minutes ago, Faridah.8431 said:

You seem to want to argue a semantics battle to skirt around any points.

You were the one insisting on me telling you "where you said whole story", while ignoring that I never said that either. What are you even doing right now?

I said you want to have the story spoiled, because that's exactly what you want. It doesn't mean WHOLE story, it still means you want the story spoiled. You're even complaining about "keeping everything hidden as spoilers", so maybe stop contradicting yourself.

Quote

As for your other point, obviously something will happen at the beginning of EoD to take us to Cantha. How is this at all relevant to anything I said about how they are going about this. Again, they keep hiding everything as "spoilers", so the fact we don't even have a basic setup leading into the expansion is odd and my point has been how this is different from the previous two expansions. But sure, keep trying to argue it's what...not different?

It has everything to do with it since it's a non-issue. What point do you have at being "pointed directly at cantha" right now when you can't go there anyways? What exactly does it change that "you're talking from perspective of a player who does play the story in order known"? Nothing. You'll still know why you're going to cantha when you start playing eod. Right now we know that it is being reaserched, which -whether you like it or not- is still part of the story. And that's also how we know that we'll get the results at the start of the eod story, when we'll be able to actually proceed with the findings. That's exactly why it makes much more sense to have it this way than how you want it (with the only probable ""reason"" being your impatience and wanting them to release fargments of expansion story before the expansion, while pretending it has anything to do with new players).

Again, again: the set up is there, the only thing not being there is being pointed at the exact land, which at this moment influences nothing as far as gameplay or your general ingame experience goes.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Sobx.1758