Feedback from a roamer

[subversiontwo.7501]

On 12/5/2021 at 9:55 PM, reddie.5861 said:

hmm i dont agree, yes at some points nothing changed but what did change and what did made biggest impact for me (just logged in ones after months today) i do not know any of the names that roam around also, i do not know if one is a roamer or a blob guy

What you describe has nothing to do with the system and everything to do with that you just logged in now for the first time in months. You don't dislike the system, you dislike the change while you have not been playing.

It is quite frankly, quite scary that you can't distinguish between the two.

Edited December 7, 2021 by subversiontwo.7501

[Ogwom.7940]

@subversiontwo.7501I just don't see how any of the people arguing against you and others with same sentiments, have any compelling arguments to justify that this new system is bad. It seems quite a few people who do critique it either don't play WvW and come just to do dailies, or they play it very rarely.

 

I can roam just as easily as before, in fact it's more fun with more action.

I can also get into a zerg as there's always some action somewhere, which is a blessing for me.

 

Maybe I am missing something? But I am enjoying WvW a LOT more with the changes. I could just be the only one perhaps who feels like this?

[Nikola.3841]

59 minutes ago, subversiontwo.7501 said:

What you describe has nothing to do with the system and everything to do with that you just logged in now for the first time in months. You don't dislike the system, you dislike the change while you have not been playing.

It is quite frankly, quite scary that you can't distinguish between the two.

 

I liked DAOC because it promoted socialising, as someone put it in one of DAOC facebook groups, "DAOC was a game made around chat program". This last wvw change does the opposite...disrupts bonds between people that was built for years. For people in few big guilds maybe it won't change much, but for many it will make it even more PVE-like

maybe its just my bad luck to end up in Seven Pines, where I don't see single organized guild, and most people play like headless chicken

 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Nikola.3841

[kash.9213]

1 hour ago, Ogwom.7940 said:

@subversiontwo.7501I just don't see how any of the people arguing against you and others with same sentiments, have any compelling arguments to justify that this new system is bad. It seems quite a few people who do critique it either don't play WvW and come just to do dailies, or they play it very rarely.

 

I can roam just as easily as before, in fact it's more fun with more action.

I can also get into a zerg as there's always some action somewhere, which is a blessing for me.

 

Maybe I am missing something? But I am enjoying WvW a LOT more with the changes. I could just be the only one perhaps who feels like this?

Right now on my server, there is a dynamic of pugs that are a mix of roamers, floaters, different guilds, half pver's, etc. There's no way to pull and poach all of them into one guild. Many are loyal to their guild, or friends in a guild, while not wanting to always run with a guild. With Alliances, that dynamic gets replaced with weekly randos who you'll only get to vibe with occasionally every few weeks if you even remember them. 

This past weekend was revealing with many of our usual players being scattered and and we ended up for the majority of the beta with large guilds yelling at everyone over map queues. Normally that doesn't matter because our pugs ignore them and get things done or just look for fights, but with the scattered pop those guilds had free reign to take over maps and then leave them dead after about 20 min. Ya, you can still do everything, but you can be the only person on a map and still do everything, it will just suck really bad. 

[Chichimec.9364]

1 hour ago, Ogwom.7940 said:

@subversiontwo.7501I just don't see how any of the people arguing against you and others with same sentiments, have any compelling arguments to justify that this new system is bad. It seems quite a few people who do critique it either don't play WvW and come just to do dailies, or they play it very rarely.

 

I can roam just as easily as before, in fact it's more fun with more action.

I can also get into a zerg as there's always some action somewhere, which is a blessing for me.

 

Maybe I am missing something? But I am enjoying WvW a LOT more with the changes. I could just be the only one perhaps who feels like this?

No, you are not the only one who feels this way. Since the start of the beta, I've solo roamed and run with groups of guildies ranging from 2-3 up to 10 or so. We've taken shrines, sentries, supply camps, and towers a lot. When other tags or enough randos are around, we've taken keeps too. Friday and Saturday were fairly chaotic but things seem to have settled down a lot since then. At this point, the gameplay feels about the same way it did before the beta began. We take objectives, we fight groups roughly our size, winning sometimes, losing others, we run afoul of a large zerg and get wiped. That's the way WvW has always been for me. Again though, this is only one player's perspective, running with a small group, as part of one Team. Other people seem to be having very different experiences and I can't speak to the validity of what they are saying.

[xhizito.6935]

Seven Pines the worst matchup on this alliances, just saw 2 guilds sp far, getting wiped in seconds, bunch of scrubs that don't know how to dodge and perma outnumbered in all maps ALL THE TIME, and the worst part is that I'm stuck here withut an option to switch servers, I can't wait for this beta ends up.

oh and I usually play wvw for 8-10 hours per day, but this random matchup killed the game for me.

Edited December 7, 2021 by xhizito.6935

[Ogwom.7940]

If you are going to put confused emojis, at least reply back to me on what you are confused about, so we can have discussion.

 

Right now, it feels like people are putting those confused emojis just because they don't like what I wrote.

I would like some feedback on some actual negative aspects of this system. 

[Ogwom.7940]

You can just change a guild and be paired with someone else I thought. You are making it sound like it's an absolute and that there is no option, when there is.

Unless I am not understanding correctly?

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Yeah, have a feeling it won't get better for roamers once alliances actually work.

Right now all we have is an enhanced version of EoTM with random teams and no way to organize anything, so of course it feels familiar to any apologists.  This is a false flag though as this beta means nothing other than to Anet using us as QA for bugs, and shouldn't be taken as what alliances themselves will look like at all.

The underlying issue is WvW needs fixed as a whole for small scale / non-affiliated players.  It's been said countless times but defending, capturing camps, and escorting yaks all need to mean more.  Big objectives can be for guilds to fight over, but no 'fight guild' should be capping camps other than one on the way to a large objective for supply.  

I don't see alliances helping the outnumbered issue either.  Whether solo player matched to a random alliance or small guild matched to a random alliance it doesn't matter.  There will still be coverage issues for all but the top say 3 alliances who specifically form to combat those.  

Edited December 8, 2021 by Gotejjeken.1267

[subversiontwo.7501]

On 12/7/2021 at 9:10 PM, Ogwom.7940 said:

@subversiontwo.7501I just don't see how any of the people arguing against you and others with same sentiments, have any compelling arguments to justify that this new system is bad. It seems quite a few people who do critique it either don't play WvW and come just to do dailies, or they play it very rarely.

 

I can roam just as easily as before, in fact it's more fun with more action.

I can also get into a zerg as there's always some action somewhere, which is a blessing for me.

 

Maybe I am missing something? But I am enjoying WvW a LOT more with the changes. I could just be the only one perhaps who feels like this?

That's the thing. They don't. Against better judgement I am trying to help them see it or at least try to help them get from point A to point B in talking about it because they are just banging their heads against point A making things up they think are problems and getting themselves worked up about it. Are there valid and relevant concerns? I don't know because they can't get to point B to talk about it. I do Anet's job for them and I am absolutely stupid for doing it. I try to help these people against their will because somewhere deep down I hope for better communication, discourse and WvW. I think it was good that Anet changed their feedback and communication strategies from statistics to focus groups a while back, but I still think it is a travesty that they can't manage their own forums good enough to use them properly. If I saw no potential I would just stop playing. Players who don't care, don't talk.

23 hours ago, kash.9213 said:

Right now on my server, there is a dynamic of pugs that are a mix of roamers, floaters, different guilds, half pver's, etc. There's no way to pull and poach all of them into one guild. Many are loyal to their guild, or friends in a guild, while not wanting to always run with a guild. With Alliances, that dynamic gets replaced with weekly randos who you'll only get to vibe with occasionally every few weeks if you even remember them. 

 

For example, Kash here has been talking to me in almost every thread. I've been called an Anet apologist, I've been called snarky, I've been painted as angry and I've been called the one making up strawmen. The irony of that is quite funny. However, despite his strong opinions about this Kash doesn't even seem to know that the system runs on an 8-week basis and not on a weekly basis. It is hard to have sensible discussion then. It's pretty basic fact.

The people who are less tenacious than Kash are worse. He at least plays and tries and sometimes make good posts, like the rest of us. Their claims are otherworldly and they mostly seem to be upset about their own inaptitude. The guild who took the objective also took the supplies from it! The audacity! Them GvG elitist Alliance apologists! 🤣. There are limits for how far one can stay serious about this stuff even if they try harder than anyone else.

So, parapharasing a side-thread to this one, if there is anything in Anet's communication I would complain about it is rather them not engaging with the community on a management basis much more than them not sending out ingame pings. They could still, of course, have sent out pings 😄.

Anyway, I've done my bit now, so I'm probably gonna take a chill pill for a couple of days and play more, talk less. I know I'm wasting my time.

Edited December 8, 2021 by subversiontwo.7501

[Ogwom.7940]

32 minutes ago, subversiontwo.7501 said:

That's the thing. They don't. Against better judgement I am trying to help them see it or at least try to help them get from point A to point B in talking about it because they are just banging their heads against point A making things up they think are problems and getting themselves worked up about it. Are there valid and relevant concerns? I don't know because they can't get to point B to talk about it. I do Anet's job for them and I am absolutely stupid for doing it. I try to help these people against their will because somewhere deep down I hope for better communication, discourse and WvW. I think it was good that Anet changed their feedback and communication strategies from statistics to focus groups a while back, but I still think it is a travesty that they can't manage their own forums good enough to use them properly. If I saw no potential I would just stop playing. Players who don't care, don't talk.

For example, Kash here has been talking to me in almost every thread. I've been called an Anet apologist, I've been called snarky, I've been painted as angry and I've been called the one making up strawmen. The irony of that is quite funny. However, despite his strong opinions about this Kash doesn't even seem to know that the system runs on an 8-week basis and not on a weekly basis. It is hard to have sensible discussion then. It's pretty basic fact.

The people who are less tenacious than Kash are worse. He at least plays and tries and sometimes make good posts, like the rest of us. Their claims are otherworldly and they mostly seem to be upset about their own inaptitude. The guild who took the objective also took the supplies from it! The audacity! Them GvG elitist Alliance apologists! 🤣. There are limits for how far one can stay serious about this stuff even if they try harder than anyone else.

So, parapharasing a side-thread to this one, if there is anything in Anet's communication I would complain about it is rather them not engaging with the community on a management basis much more than them not sending out ingame pings. They could still, of course, have sent out pings 😄.

Anyway, I've done my bit now, so I'm probably gonna take a chill pill for a couple of days and play more, talk less. I know I'm wasting my time.

Yup I agree. They have no actual arguments, but they rather repeat things that are non issues or that can be fixed within 2 seconds. 

They don't have an argument, they just complain and put confused emojis because they don't like to see what we write or they are just in denial.

I would like to be proven wrong, but so far none of these people who put confused emojis on my comments have come to the table to explain why they are confused or what is an actual negative flaw on this new system that has great impact on players.

 

Yeah I am probably going to leave forums again for a while, since there is no constructive or logical discussion happening here, other than you is brining back honest and factual feedback.

[kash.9213]

8 minutes ago, Ogwom.7940 said:

Yup I agree. They have no actual arguments, but they rather repeat things that are non issues or that can be fixed within 2 seconds. 

They don't have an argument, they just complain and put confused emojis because they don't like to see what we write or they are just in denial.

I would like to be proven wrong, but so far none of these people who put confused emojis on my comments have come to the table to explain why they are confused or what is an actual negative flaw on this new system that has great impact on players.

 

Yeah I am probably going to leave forums again for a while, since there is no constructive or logical discussion happening here, other than you is brining back honest and factual feedback.

Ignoring arguments doesn't mean they're not there. The difference is, some peoples arguments stem from what has already happened and what continues to happen, while others argue over hopeful possibilities. They can make it personal by name dropping and trying to be clever with wording, but that doesn't dismiss legitimate complaints and valid concerns over facts and current situations. 

[Xenesis.6389]

 

19 hours ago, Ogwom.7940 said:

They don't have an argument, they just complain and put confused emojis because they don't like to see what we write or they are just in denial.

lol it's amazing the amount of emotes my posts generated this week. I tried not to get too caught up in discussions, cause I know they're venting, but geez, the population revamp has been in the works for almost 6 years already, kinda late to tell them to shut it all down or give their two bit suggestions that somehow is better than the 100's of other suggestions already given in nine years, while still not fully understanding what the new system is.

 

My only worry is if they listen to these casual flybynights and do shut down the system, that would probably be it for wvw, no more development, there just wouldn't be any point anymore.

[kash.9213]

4 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

 

lol it's amazing the amount of emotes my posts generated this week. I tried not to get too caught up in discussions, cause I know they're venting, but geez, the population revamp has been in the works for almost 6 years already, kinda late to tell them to shut it all down or give their two bit suggestions that somehow is better than the 100's of other suggestions already given in nine years, while still not fully understanding what the new system is.

 

My only worry is if they listen to these casual flybynights and do shut down the system, that would probably be it for wvw, no more development, there just wouldn't be any point anymore.

"After 100's of suggestions, 6 years of stalling, and a couple of failed betas, how can these casuals complain?"

[Gehenna.3625]

On 12/7/2021 at 8:08 PM, subversiontwo.7501 said:

It sounds to me like you're not used to that. Which means you've probably paid to transfer somewhere that always has more players than others.

Nope, I've been on the same server since launch. I would invite you to make some changes in your reasoning methods to allow less baseless assumptions.

On 12/7/2021 at 8:08 PM, subversiontwo.7501 said:

The fact remains that the new system is likely to produce more balanced matchups than the old system. That is what it is designed for. Whatever you feel right now is completely irrelevant.

What I feel right now is relevant to me and this is why I gave my feedback.

On 12/7/2021 at 8:08 PM, subversiontwo.7501 said:

I've been on servers under the old system that commonly suffers that for years and years, you see it for an unknown amount of time over a couple of days and go ballistic about it. That does not give credibility to your complaint.

I noticed a big difference like day and night. That's credible enough for me. 

On 12/7/2021 at 8:08 PM, subversiontwo.7501 said:

The issue that you describe (being outnumbered when you play) can also be answered by a number of things, not the least of which is that your world may be stronger in another time zone or that it mostly plays weekdays and that your matchup is still balanced when taking a full week into account. You can probably go to some meta-site and look at how balanced your matchup is overall.

Again, it's such a difference that I didn't play anymore during the past week. Now it's back to normal I enjoy WvW again.

On 12/7/2021 at 8:08 PM, subversiontwo.7501 said:

Even if your matchup remains skewered you need to look at it as one matchup among every other matchup as well to determine whether the new system is objectively better than the old system. How you feel about it remains irrelevant, especially if you've done nothing to try to affect it like starting a guild to organise players or put up a tag to get people who won't play without one to play. You may have players, you may just not have the tags to make the pug-reliant players play. That's a possibility whether you personally prefer to roam or not. Maybe your beta world even has a disc so you can enquire about it. Have you looked for a disc?

Orient yourself on your world and give a compelling reason as to why you don't have players and maybe more people will take you seriously.

Please don't tell me how to game. I won't enjoy it and I already said in my OP that I have issues in social structures due to mental illness issues. I'm not here to change that, I would if I could. I'm just here to report what my experience was like during the beta. People like you try to "prove" me wrong, but there's no such thing in giving feedback on an experience. 

This is what I experienced, Anet can do with it what they like. If the changes come and this isn't fixed, it will likely mean that I won't do WvW anymore. I'm sure Anet won't lose a night's sleep over that.

[Dawdler.8521]

1 hour ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

People like you try to "prove" me wrong, but there's no such thing in giving feedback on an experience. 

Wasnt this thread feedback on your experience with the beta?