Who will have the next Dodge Mechanic

[Dawanarth.4601]

First it was the Thief with the Daredevil, next it was the Mesmer with Mirage and now we got Revenant with Vindicator. Each expansion brought 1 profession with a Dodge mechanic.

Daredevil got an increase dodge count (3) with 3 possible versions:

- Bound (Damage area)

- Lotus (Dagger throw)

- Dash(Cleanse)

Mirage got Mirage Cloak and access to special attacks

And now Vindicator got an attack from above that can become more powerful (but smaller AoE) or even become a healing burst

 

So who could get a dodge mechanic in the theoretical next expansion

[Dawanarth.4601]

Elementalist (Though I want to see a ranged Espec instead of yet again a brawler, either Longbow or Rifle) which has an elemental imbued Dodge:

- Fire: "Flame Strike" Leap and strike the ground, causing a blast of flames

- Earth: "Underground Escape" Burrow underground and then explode out of it

- Water: "Imminent Downpour" A Cascade appear over the Elementalist, healing and pushing back the foes

- Air: "Thunderous Steps" Dash in direction and cause a chain lightning

[Duke Blackrose.4981]

I like the idea of Ranger getting it. Call the elite spec the Strider, and give it a Rifle.

 

4 hours ago, Dawanarth.4601 said:

Elementalist (Though I want to see a ranged Espec instead of yet again a brawler, either Longbow or Rifle) which has an elemental imbued Dodge:

- Fire: "Flame Strike" Leap and strike the ground, causing a blast of flames

- Earth: "Underground Escape" Burrow underground and then explode out of it

- Water: "Imminent Downpour" A Cascade appear over the Elementalist, healing and pushing back the foes

- Air: "Thunderous Steps" Dash in direction and cause a chain lightning

They pretty much already have elemental dodges with their Arcane GM. But it's a cool idea. Maybe in the future with a Torch, which has a espec collection skin changes its visual element to match the current attunement.

[Dadnir.5038]

I'd say ranger is the most appropriate profession left for something like a dodge spec.

It would be something like:

Shaman: Shamans are rangers that walk the path of becoming nature spirits, befriending Nature whisp instead of the common familiar. Threading this path, they learnt to walk into the spirit realm and influence nature around them while they do.

Dodge: When the shaman dodge he fuse with it's Nature whisp for 3s losing the ability to use weapon skills but impacting the world with it's very presence. Deplete endurance over 3s, can only be used while at full endurance.

Nature whisp: Nature whisps are always under the effect of blur but their attack deal low clone amount of damage.

-> Famine whisp: F2: Passive: allow the shaman's attack to rip boon (ICD 8s). Active: Rip enemies boons within the area.

Spirit walk (famine): Foe within 600 range have 25% reduced incoming boon duration and take strike damage for each boon they receive.

-> Bramble whisp: F2: Passive: allow the shaman's attack to inclict bleed (ICD 4s). Active: Bleed and cripple foes within the area.

Spirit walk (Bramble): Foes within 600 range take 50% more damage from bleed and poison.

-> Roaring whisp: F2: Passive: allow the shaman to block an incoming projectile (ICD 8s). Active: Blind and inflict confusion to foes within the area.

Spirit walk (Roar): Block incoming projectiles within 300 radius area. Foes within the area take strike damage every 1/2s.

-> Predatory whisp: F2: Passive: allow the shaman's attack to drain life (ICD 8s). Active: Siphon health from foes within the area and transfer it to the shaman.

Spirit walk (Predatory): Hits from allies within 600 range siphon life (Soulcleave summit level of life siphon)

 

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Honestly any of the classes could get it. Though Engineer with Explosive Entrance kind of already has a dodge mechanic, and to a lesser extent Warrior does too with Reckless Impact.

We all of on dodge effects, but those two in particular are more impactful to me than the other one's I've used.

Vindicator did add variety to the dodge mechanic and really expanded it's potential as something to augment and build around.

[Kodama.6453]

2 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Honestly any of the classes could get it. Though Engineer with Explosive Entrance kind of already has a dodge mechanic, and to a lesser extent Warrior does too with Reckless Impact.

We all of on dodge effects, but those two in particular are more impactful to me than the other one's I've used.

Vindicator did add variety to the dodge mechanic and really expanded it's potential as something to augment and build around.

Eh, if we count these effects than we have way more dodge effects already.

Elementalist: Evasive Arcana (cast a spell when you dodge based on your current attunement)

Ranger: Light on your Feet (increased damage after dodging)

Guardian: Selfless Daring (healing allies around after dodging)

Thief: Uncatchable (leave behind caltrops after dodging)

Necromancer: Mark of Evasion (leave behind mark of blood after dodging)

 

Bonus: Engineer already has an elite spec with dodge mechanic

Holosmith: Thermal Release Valve

 

For the sake of this thread, I would just count specs which are changing the dodge roll into something else. So as OP mentioned, just daredevil (3 different dodge animations), mirage (no dodge roll, distortion effect instead), vindicator (jump into the sky).

Edited December 6, 2021 by Kodama.6453

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

25 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Eh, if we count these effects than we have way more dodge effects already.

Elementalist: Evasive Arcana (cast a spell when you dodge based on your current attunement)

Ranger: Light on your Feet (increased damage after dodging)

Guardian: Selfless Daring (healing allies around after dodging)

Thief: Uncatchable (leave behind caltrops after dodging)

Necromancer: Mark of Evasion (leave behind mark of blood after dodging)

Yeah, I did mention that, thanks for reading my whole comment. They all have dodge traits, but Warrior and Engi are able to load them up more with effects. (you forgot the protection on dodge for ranger btw, and I believe Rev has a few.)

25 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Bonus: Engineer already has an elite spec with dodge mechanic

Holosmith: Thermal Release Valve

 

For the sake of this thread, I would just count specs which are changing the dodge roll into something else. So as OP mentioned, just daredevil (3 different dodge animations), mirage (no dodge roll, distortion effect instead), vindicator (jump into the sky).

And as I said, any of them could get an altered dodge. Vindicator really showed how Anet can break the mold on that mechanic and I'd love to see them do that with other specs. I just don't think it would be Engi or Warrior for reasons already stated, and is something that I think we'd all have to keep in mind.

[Tseison.4659]

Or how about we don't reduce anymore professions to one dodge? I don't mind giving a special skill/ambush skill either on dodge or getting what the daredevil got, but seriously, after us Mirage' getting reduced to one dodge, I'd rather not see others get that same treatment just because people love to complain...🙄

[Dawanarth.4601]

19 hours ago, Tseison.4659 said:

Or how about we don't reduce anymore professions to one dodge? I don't mind giving a special skill/ambush skill either on dodge or getting what the daredevil got, but seriously, after us Mirage' getting reduced to one dodge, I'd rather not see others get that same treatment just because people love to complain...🙄

It depend, the 1 dodge mirage could go back to 2 dodge, but Vindicator work quite well with only one dodge

[Tseison.4659]

16 minutes ago, Dawanarth.4601 said:

It depend, the 1 dodge mirage could go back to 2 dodge, but Vindicator work quite well with only one dodge

Do keep in mind that the Vindicator has enough traits that assist the spec with gaining endurance while the only thing we have is the Vigor boon and then depending on the players playstyle, the Endurance food. 

[Dadnir.5038]

3 minutes ago, Tseison.4659 said:

Do keep in mind that the Vindicator has enough traits that assist the spec with gaining endurance while the only thing we have is the Vigor boon and then depending on the players playstyle, the Endurance food. 

One easily forget that mirage have mirage mirror from cristal sand and sand throught glass that give him extra Mirage cloack frame (the name of the dodge). It still amount to 2 extra dodges every 25s. Without forgetting that there is desert distorsion that make distorsion work the same way than mirage cloack for a potential 5 extra dodge on your utility bar (blurred inscriptions).

Don't get me wrong, this "single dodge" mirage suck and I hate it, still mirage have it's own advantage and can't really be described as "lacking" compared to vindicator (also vindicator have to recover 100 endurance while mirage only have to strive for 50).

You can't really compare Mirage and Vindicator by suming things to "vindicator have many thing to recover endurance while mirage just have vigor".

[Tseison.4659]

1 minute ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

One easily forget that mirage have mirage mirror from cristal sand and sand throught glass that give him extra Mirage cloack frame (the name of the dodge). It still amount to 2 extra dodges every 25s. Without forgetting that there is desert distorsion that make distorsion work the same way than mirage cloack for a potential 5 extra dodge on your utility bar (blurred inscriptions).

Don't get me wrong, this "single dodge" mirage suck and I hate it, still mirage have it's own advantage and can't really be described as "lacking" compared to vindicator (also vindicator have to recover 100 endurance while mirage only have to strive for 50).

You can't really compare Mirage and Vindicator by suming things to "vindicator have many thing to recover endurance while mirage just have vigor".

Good for you because I sure don’t see any Mirages taking Sand Through Glass or Crystal Sands and picking up Mirage Mirrors should never have been a thing. But anywho, yeah no, the dodge mechanic should’ve never been reduced to one bar and even though this likely will be the last set of elite specs we get. IF by chance they happened to release a new one and had to give another profession a unique ability upon dodging, either it be an ambush or whatever, I’d rather they not touch the dodge mechanic in the sense of reducing it to one bar…

[ScottBroChill.3254]

My guess is guardian. They'll slap a 2 second internal timer on it and give them infinite dodges because it's guardian and why not give them a better version of everything. And it'll just apply 3 stacks of burning around them and aegis, nothing too serious. 

[Dadnir.5038]

11 hours ago, Tseison.4659 said:

Good for you because I sure don’t see any Mirages taking Sand Through Glass or Crystal Sands and picking up Mirage Mirrors should never have been a thing. But anywho, yeah no, the dodge mechanic should’ve never been reduced to one bar and even though this likely will be the last set of elite specs we get. IF by chance they happened to release a new one and had to give another profession a unique ability upon dodging, either it be an ambush or whatever, I’d rather they not touch the dodge mechanic in the sense of reducing it to one bar…

Point is that where vindicator capitalize on endurance gen to get it's dodge while mirage capitalize on other things. I don't see how people can be confused about something as simple as that. You don't compare apple and orange because both are simply different things.

If mirages don't pick Sand though glass, cristal sands or even traited signets, it's their choice and they can hardly say that those options aren't there to pick. The devs don't make the meta, it's the players that make it (especially in competitive mode where dealing damage isn't the only thing that matter).

The concept of a single dodge is "ok", even if it's a burden to players' muscle memory, as long as you have enough way to actively defend outside of "dodge" (like evade skills, block, barrier, blind, distorsion, immun... etc.).

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

I can't imagine Necromancer will ever get a spec with a special dodge mechanic.  So much endurance gain would have to be stacked into the elite spec for it to be even remotely possible, since core Necro has none (and even elite specs are limited to 5 seconds of Vigor every 90 with Harbinger for any endurance gain over baseline).

 

Ranger, though?  I can absolutely see that one happening.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Drarnor Kunoram.5180

[Emberheart.8426]

Elementalist will be next because there must always be a close range ele spec. 🤣

[Kodama.6453]

5 hours ago, Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

I can't imagine Necromancer will ever get a spec with a special dodge mechanic.  So much endurance gain would have to be stacked into the elite spec for it to be even remotely possible, since core Necro has none (and even elite specs are limited to 5 seconds of Vigor every 90 with Harbinger for any endurance gain over baseline).

 

Ranger, though?  I can absolutely see that one happening.

Shroud removed. Life force will now refill your dodge bar after a dodge. 100% life force means you get a complete dodge refilled. 50% life force refills half a dodge, etc.

There ya go.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

7 hours ago, Ganathar.4956 said:

Elementalist will be next because there must always be a close range ele spec. 🤣

It would end up being the only ranged espec though.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Shroud removed. Life force will now refill your dodge bar after a dodge. 100% life force means you get a complete dodge refilled. 50% life force refills half a dodge, etc.

There ya go.

Yeah but what would counts as Shroud 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and enter/exit shroud then?

[Dadnir.5038]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Yeah but what would counts as Shroud 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and enter/exit shroud then?

Good point.

Objectively, Harbinger could have been a dodge spec. The devs would only have had to add a baseline endurance regen per stack of blight and focus the trait on supporting a fancy (or not) dodge.

I mean:

Blight: Reduce 1.5% max health per stack but increase 1.5% endurance regen per stack.

Devouring cut replace the base dodge. And they could have added trait effects like: gain dark aura when you dodge, your dodge have a leap finisher, Endurance regen provided by blight is doubled above 20 blight stacks... etc.

The loss of sustain from the shroud and blight would have been traded for a focus on dodging. But I guess going for non baseline damage increase in exchange for a drop in max life was more appealing...

[Dawanarth.4601]

Of all the EoD Espec, I would have picked Guardian, turn the current F2 "Flowing Resolve" into one of the Dodge, have the 2 other create either Cleansing, or some other things

[Buran.3796]

On 12/7/2021 at 8:10 PM, Dawanarth.4601 said:

It depend, the 1 dodge mirage could go back to 2 dodge, but Vindicator work quite well with only one dodge

   Why would anyone like to see a basic feature from the mechanics of the game removed from their main class? When they did that to the Mirage, the class was removed from the PvP meta. And Vindicator, with a single non-stackable dodge which cost x2 the endurance of any other class or spec (and which needs to ruin his damage taking traits and sigils to just to compensate that cost), has 0 chances to be viable in PvP.

   Is like: "who thinks that losing the passive effects of virtues on the Willbender is cool?" or "who likes Berserker's armor being shaved by 300 units?" Those are lame "balance choices", they should have boosted the core classes instead. No one want's to run a downgraded version of what they had. Other MMOs are revamping their basic classes (BDO)  to try to level the qol the new ones bringed to the players

   Did any of the tradeoffs ANet implemented bring any FUN to the players that are running those specs? Why to focus on making the things WORSE when the game is FULL of weapons and traitlines and skills so bad that no one uses them at ANY gamemode?

[Mik.3401]

Definetely not Guardian or Necro. That’s for the reason we all know. Unless each dodge gives them 10k health and inflicts 10k dps to enemies in 1200 radius, maybe it’s coming?

my bet is warrior because it is a dead class anyway haha