PVE legendary armor

[Sobx.1758]

16 minutes ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

Well If its also about people wanting another lve legendary armor set I think they need to learn to raid or go for one of the other sets. The OP was about why raid legendary, but the thread seems to be on another topic. Some times its hard to tell exactly what the "topic is"

Seeing how you were responding to what I said, I can easly tell you that it was not on another topic and I'm still not sure why you've responded to what I said with "but ascended..." 😄

Edited December 11, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Ogwom.7940]

56 minutes ago, Ayakaru.6583 said:

Legendary equipment is connected to legendary content, requiring legendary effort. 

Not wanting to do content is a 'you' problem, not a game problem

Hey, I don't disagree with that.

 

Getting a legendary weapon requires legendary effort/content. BUT they are acquired through openworld. I don't see how it would be a bad thing to add another PvE armor set that can be acquired a similar way to legendary weapons.

 

Doing so isn't making people not wanting to do content.

[Moradorin.6217]

41 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Seeing how you were responding to what I said, I can easly tell you that it was not on another topic and I'm still not sure why you've responded to what I said with "but ascended..." 😄

Well it sounded like people are comparing pve sets (basically legendary, but raids are the only pve source) maybe to other legendary sets to say raiding is too hard. I wasnt 100% sure. So I just tried to give an example of a way in which raid rewards are actually easier to obtain vs the other modes. TBH I think allot of people are scared to try raids because people are told it has a very high skill bar and it takes specific meta roles, etc. I was also sorta trying to point out anyone who may be trying to argue that pve needs another source of legendary upgrades that other pve modes like fractals wouldnt even make a quicker or easer alternative, but rather anyone who can learn T4s can also learn raids if they put in the same effort.

 

Then I also took mentioned pvp/wvw vs raid legendary imbalance because its my personal pet topic 😉 and it seemed to fit into what I was saying.

 

Also it ws early and I had not had any coffee yet. =p

[Sobx.1758]

7 minutes ago, Ogwom.7940 said:

Hey, I don't disagree with that.

 

Getting a legendary weapon requires legendary effort/content. BUT they are acquired through openworld. I don't see how it would be a bad thing to add another PvE armor set that can be acquired a similar way to legendary weapons.

 

Doing so isn't making people not wanting to do content.

For one, legendary gear spread over varied content incentivises branching out and potentially improving at the game. And then again, if you don't want to, then you don't need to. Playing with ascended gear is a perfectly valid option where you don't lose any power. That whole idea boiling down to "I just want to keep playing this one thing and then get everything in the game" is weird to me.

 

5 minutes ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

Well it sounded like people are comparing pve sets (basically legendary, but raids are the only pve source) maybe to other legendary sets to say raiding is too hard. I wasnt 100% sure. So I just tried to give an example of a way in which raid rewards are actually easier to obtain vs the other modes. TBH I think allot of people are scared to try raids because people are told it has a very high skill bar and it takes specific meta roles, etc. I was also sorta trying to point out anyone who may be trying to argue that pve needs another source of legendary upgrades that other pve modes like fractals wouldnt even make a quicker or easer alternative, but rather anyone who can learn T4s can also learn raids if they put in the same effort.

 

Then I also took mentioned pvp/wvw vs raid legendary imbalance because its my personal pet topic 😉 and it seemed to fit into what I was saying.

 

Also it ws early and I had not had any coffee yet. =p

Ok, thanks for the explanation 😛 

Edited December 11, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Moradorin.6217]

2 minutes ago, Ogwom.7940 said:

Hey, I don't disagree with that.

 

Getting a legendary weapon requires legendary effort/content. BUT they are acquired through openworld. I don't see how it would be a bad thing to add another PvE armor set that can be acquired a similar way to legendary weapons.

 

Doing so isn't making people not wanting to do content.

I understand the point of view, but I think its better to leave pve with raid armor. The raid achivements related to the Envoy collections all got added before PoF. Therefore, they are all very doable. People do them with new accounts on TP purchased exotics. You can gear out a raid ready toon for less than 20g (not every spec). Tons of guides around, plenty of chill runs.

 

Before pve should get another set of Legendary armor pvp/wvw should get actual legendary skin upgrades, for instance! So in a way I resent the topic because it detracts from other things I think are more important and are actually imbalanced rewards.

[Ayakaru.6583]

7 minutes ago, Ogwom.7940 said:

Hey, I don't disagree with that.

 

Getting a legendary weapon requires legendary effort/content. BUT they are acquired through openworld. I don't see how it would be a bad thing to add another PvE armor set that can be acquired a similar way to legendary weapons.

 

Doing so isn't making people not wanting to do content.

I hear you, but I always disagreed with acquisition of legendary weapons. They were never hard or challenging to get, just terribly slow, since all it takes is a major grind of materials and gold. 

The requirements for armour was a step up in value (in my opinion).

Also, there's still ascended armour which is about the next best thing which can still be gotten with boorish gold grind

Edited December 11, 2021 by Ayakaru.6583

[IndigoSundown.5419]

Since early days for MMO's, the idea that better rewards are gained by completing more difficult content has been central to the genre.  Bosses have better loot than random trash mobs.  Harder bosses have better loot than easier ones.

 

Sure, ANet went away from this at first, but only with regard to precursors.  This was done, I believe, to make the game's ultimate carrot available to everyone, not just those who seek harder PvE.  At launch, though, ANet intended that explorable dungeons, and their exclusive rewards, be the hardest PvE content in the game.  That didn't happen, but it was their stated intent.

 

So, you aren't going to get away from that.  Developers would be justifiably leery of departing from that central design principles of MMO's.  Doing so would mean that the players who play harder PvE content would feel betrayed.  This would not be good for the game's overall health.

 

Whether raids are dead content is debatable.  Some still play them.  I can't even say ANet has abandoned them.  It's noteworthy that Colin Johansen, who was Game Director when raids were being developed, is back at ANet.  I would not be surprised if, in typical ANet fashion, he is spearheading a new iteration of raids, the promised CM Strikes.  Just as ANet stopped development of dungeons in favor of Fractals, they have stopped development of raids in favor of strikes, and are now (apparently) moving into a new iteration of those.

[genjonah.1253]

Open world PvE legendary armor requirements-

 

precursor armor piece- obtained for free. Ascended. Choosable stats. You deserve it

 

Gift of map completion- comes from every five maps done by character

 

gift of metas- given every ten different map metas, by character

 

gift of go-play-other-ways-we’ve-already-given-you- created in the mystic forge from four stacks of mystic clovers

 

 

 

all per armor piece. And the skin is the same of karma armor from starter maps. That’s a new system I could get behind

 

all joking aside- there are already three paths to legendary armor. I wouldn’t mind getting another one, but please make it’s difficulty and expense on par or worse than what we already have. Legendary gear is supposed to be for the few. Hence ‘legendary’. Literally all content can be done with exotic- outside of certain expensive runes and sigils, you can gear a character for raid level content with 20 gold, starting from scratch. And once you start that ‘high level/difficult’ content? Ascended starts dropping relatively often, and can be bought easily with the currency earned. I do not have (yet) any of the raid armor. Keep those skins locked behind that content. Make it mean something to have it. That’s why the first few Gen2 weapons had it exactly right, as well. You didn’t buy it, you earned it. Same with the raid armor, especially when you can get the exact same functionality through two other means

[Ogwom.7940]

4 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

For one, legendary gear spread over varied content incentivises branching out and potentially improving at the game. And then again, if you don't want to, then you don't need to. Playing with ascended gear is a perfectly valid option where you don't lose any power. That whole idea boiling down to "I just want to keep playing this one thing and then get everything in the game" is weird to me.

 

Ok, thanks for the explanation 😛 

That's fine, but why can't we have legendary armor spread through openworld just like the weapons are? This doesn't prevent people from playing other game modes. It just allows players to be able to acquire a skin/s from an alternative source.

I am not saying legendary armor can't be spread out, if you actually read my post, you would see that I am actually advocating for it.

You are the one who is wanting to limit the amount of content by locking certain gear sets behind specific content that everyone may not enjoy.

 

Yes, playing with ascended gear is a valid option, but the original intent for legendries was to achieve a unique skin by investing many hours into the game. It wasn't always about the convenience. There are people who want to get unique skins with unique effects as well. Cause fashionwars

[Ogwom.7940]

4 hours ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

I understand the point of view, but I think its better to leave pve with raid armor. The raid achivements related to the Envoy collections all got added before PoF. Therefore, they are all very doable. People do them with new accounts on TP purchased exotics. You can gear out a raid ready toon for less than 20g (not every spec). Tons of guides around, plenty of chill runs.

 

Before pve should get another set of Legendary armor pvp/wvw should get actual legendary skin upgrades, for instance! So in a way I resent the topic because it detracts from other things I think are more important and are actually imbalanced rewards.

I know raid wings 1-4 aren't the most difficult content. I already have 3 full sets of Legendary Envoy armor for medium, heavy and light weights. 

I might be wrong, but I think I saw somewhere that the raiding community is a small percentage of GW2's playerbase. This is why I am suggesting it.

 

Also I do definitely agree that WvW and PvP Legendary armor sets should get an upgrade to a unique skin before.

 

The only reason why I am discussing this topic is because this thread opened by OP is about legendary armor. It isn't a concern for me as I already have these legendary items.

[Ogwom.7940]

4 hours ago, Ayakaru.6583 said:

I hear you, but I always disagreed with acquisition of legendary weapons. They were never hard or challenging to get, just terribly slow, since all it takes is a major grind of materials and gold. 

The requirements for armour was a step up in value (in my opinion).

Also, there's still ascended armour which is about the next best thing which can still be gotten with boorish gold grind

That is a good point. Legendary weapons at launch felt very difficult to achieve. Now they feel much easier, but just slow and tedious.

 

The raid armor collections do differ from that and require some skill and dedication.

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Ogwom.7940 said:

That's fine, but why can't we have legendary armor spread through openworld just like the weapons are?

For example, because -as you've already noticed- weapons are open world. Adding everything to the same content isn't "spreading over varied content".

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This doesn't prevent people from playing other game modes. It just allows players to be able to acquire a skin/s from an alternative source.

Then it also doesn't incentivize them to play other modes. Did you read/understand what I wrote in the post you've just quoted?

Quote

I am not saying legendary armor can't be spread out, if you actually read my post, you would see that I am actually advocating for it.

You are the one who is wanting to limit the amount of content by locking certain gear sets behind specific content that everyone may not enjoy.

...what? Ok, I think you didn't understand what I wrote.

Quote

Yes, playing with ascended gear is a valid option, but the original intent for legendries was to achieve a unique skin by investing many hours into the game. It wasn't always about the convenience. There are people who want to get unique skins with unique effects as well. Cause fashionwars

How do you know what the exact "original intent for legendaries" was? Also that wasn't exactly the original intent for legendary armor, I can tell you that much. At least not in the way you want it, which boils down to "play whatever and get all the rewards anyways". You can get all the skins you want by completing content that rewards them. Hence the "incentivises branching out and potentially improving at the game" part.

Edited December 11, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Ogwom.7940]

35 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

For example, because -as you've already noticed- weapons are open world. Adding everything to the same content isn't "spreading over varied content".

Then it also doesn't incentivize them to play other modes. Did you read/understand what I wrote in the post you've just quoted?

...what? Ok, I think you didn't understand what I wrote.

How do you know what the exact "original intent for legendaries" was? Also that wasn't exactly the original intent for legendary armor, I can tell you that much. At least not in the way you want it, which boils down to "play whatever and get all the rewards anyways". You can get all the skins you want by completing content that rewards them. Hence the "incentivises branching out and potentially improving at the game" part.

Adding everything to the same content? All current legendary gear types won't be moved to be acquired in open world. I am just simply saying 1 set. The other legendary armor skins can still be acquired in their respective game modes.

Adding 1 armor set is literally adding 1 more possible way of acquiring a set of legendary armor lol.

If people want the skin from raids they go there, if not they can go to WvW or an EoD openworld route.

 

Yes I did read and understand what you wrote. I said what I said. It still doesn't incentivize a large player base to play those game modes. What percentage of GW2's population is playing PvP or Raids for legendary gear?

 

I know the exact initial intent of implementing legendaries, because I played since launch. I have seen how they evolved over time.

I was there when people first crafted them, me being one of those people. They were the only prestige items with the best effects at the time. They also had exotic level stats, they were soul/character bound, they required transmutation charges and you couldn't swap their stats. They were just purely for cosmetic/fashion/prestige.

 

It's only in the past few years, that they have added convenience to legendary items, to add more incentive to make them.

 

You don't have to lock a gear type behind specific content. It's better to spread it out and lock specific skins behind specific content rather than the gear type as a whole. This way players still have incentive as well as choice to acquire the skins they want or to settle for a legendary just for convenience with whichever game mode they feel most comfortable doing.

I don't know what the stats on the people who do raids solely for legendary gear are, but I wasn't one of them. I did raids just for the content and because I wanted to have fun. I just so happened to have the Legendary Insights and decided to craft all the armor since it was easier to do than play WvW or PvP for me. Thankfully I had a choice to pick rather than there being only WvW armor for example. 

[Sobx.1758]

21 minutes ago, Ogwom.7940 said:

Adding everything to the same content? All current legendary gear types won't be moved to be acquired in open world. I am just simply saying 1 set. The other legendary armor skins can still be acquired in their respective game modes.

Adding 1 armor set is literally adding 1 more possible way of acquiring a set of legendary armor lol.

If people want the skin from raids they go there, if not they can go to WvW or an EoD openworld route.

 

Yes I did read and understand what you wrote. I said what I said. It still doesn't incentivize a large player base to play those game modes. What percentage of GW2's population is playing PvP or Raids for legendary gear?

Legendary gear spread over varied content incentivises branching out and potentially improving at the game. And then again, if you don't want to, then you don't need to. Playing with ascended gear is a perfectly valid option where you don't lose any power. That whole idea boiling down to "I just want to keep playing this one thing and then get everything in the game" is weird to me.

Quote

I know the exact initial intent of implementing legendaries, because I played since launch. I have seen how they evolved over time.

I was there when people first crafted them, me being one of those people. They were the only prestige items with the best effects at the time. They also had exotic level stats, they were soul/character bound, they required transmutation charges and you couldn't swap their stats. They were just purely for cosmetic/fashion/prestige.

I know what legendaries were on release btw, that doesn't answer how can you know what devs want them to be.

Quote

It's only in the past few years, that they have added convenience to legendary items, to add more incentive to make them.

You don't have to lock a gear type behind specific content. It's better to spread it out and lock specific skins behind specific content rather than the gear type as a whole. This way players still have incentive as well as choice to acquire the skins they want or to settle for a legendary just for convenience with whichever game mode they feel most comfortable doing.

I don't know what the stats on the people who do raids solely for legendary gear are, but I wasn't one of them. I did raids just for the content and because I wanted to have fun. I just so happened to have the Legendary Insights and decided to craft all the armor since it was easier to do than play WvW or PvP for me. Thankfully I had a choice to pick rather than there being only WvW armor for example. 

Yes, it needed to be improved (not once) to have an incentive to make them. And now they can be the added incentive for people to play more of the game's content than just repeating the same meta event over and over again. Having legendaries "behind" varied content throughout the game isn't the problem, since you're perfectly fine playing with ascended if you decided that's what you want to do. I could see the problem if they did that with ascended, but since they didn't do that with items that give you power over the other players, I don't see the problem.

Edited December 11, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Ogwom.7940]

3 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Legendary gear spread over varied content incentivises branching out and potentially improving at the game. And then again, if you don't want to, then you don't need to. Playing with ascended gear is a perfectly valid option where you don't lose any power. That whole idea boiling down to "I just want to keep playing this one thing and then get everything in the game" is weird to me.

I know what legendaries were on release btw, that doesn't answer how can you know what devs want them to be.

Yes exactly, legendary gear spread over varied content incentives branching out to acquire that gear. Putting legnedary WvW armor doesn't affect this. You can still go to raids to get the raid skins. There is incentive in the skins.

 

Since you were also here on release, you tell me what you think ANet initially intended for legendaries.

How does my reply not answer what ANet most likely intended for legendaries? That is quite a stretch to assume that ANet didn't intend them to be just for cosmetic/fashion/prestige, especially when you look at the facts of their history and development throughout the game's lifetime,  the actual facts I provided.

There literally was never any convenience for legendaries. That only happened much later, and slowly over time.

 

 

 

[Ogwom.7940]

17 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Legendary gear spread over varied content incentivises branching out and potentially improving at the game. And then again, if you don't want to, then you don't need to. Playing with ascended gear is a perfectly valid option where you don't lose any power. That whole idea boiling down to "I just want to keep playing this one thing and then get everything in the game" is weird to me.

I know what legendaries were on release btw, that doesn't answer how can you know what devs want them to be.

Why do you think we are getting a 3rd set of Legendary weapon skins? It's literally for cosmetic and prestige. Also coming out with more of these unique skins with unique effects, it generates hype.

 

If it was purely for convenience and incentive to play specific game modes, we would see gen  2 or 3 weapons locked behind PvP tournaments or raids foe example. Even then, why would you lock convenience items behind a very specific part of the game that most players will never play or don't want to play?

[Sobx.1758]

28 minutes ago, Ogwom.7940 said:

Yes exactly, legendary gear spread over varied content incentives branching out to acquire that gear.

Glad you understand that. Then applying every legendary to every type of content diminishes that incentive. Ok? Ok.

Quote

Putting legnedary WvW armor doesn't affect this. You can still go to raids to get the raid skins. There is incentive in the skins.

So we already have multiple options. Want full legendary gear? Play more of the game. "there is incentive in the skins" -we've just established legendary gear had to be improved multiple times and it's surely not because it was "too desired" by the players. So no, can't agree with that.

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Since you were also here on release, you tell me what you think ANet initially intended for legendaries.

How does my reply not answer what ANet most likely intended for legendaries? That is quite a stretch to assume that ANet didn't intend them to be just for cosmetic/fashion/prestige, especially when you look at the facts of their history and development throughout the game's lifetime,  the actual facts I provided.

There literally was never any convenience for legendaries. That only happened much later, and slowly over time.

 

And then they buffed them on multiple occasions, so how can you even pretend that's the intention here?

 

22 minutes ago, Ogwom.7940 said:

If it was purely for convenience and incentive to play specific game modes, we would see gen  2 or 3 weapons locked behind PvP tournaments or raids foe example. Even then, why would you lock convenience items behind a very specific part of the game that most players will never play or don't want to play?

But these items aren't "locked just behind one thing", what are you even talking about? They're just not all available through strictly playing basic open world content. These are two different things.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Ogwom.7940]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Glad you understand that. Then applying every legendary to every type of content diminishes that incentive. Ok? Ok.

So we already have multiple options. Want full legendary gear? Play more of the game. "there is incentive in the skins" -we've just established legendary gear had to be improved multiple times and it's surely not because it was "too desired" by the players. So no, can't agree with that.

And then they buffed them on multiple occasions, so how can you even pretend that's the intention here?

Nope applying legendary to every game mode doesn't completely diminish incentive. Most people who want legendary armor but don't like raids will never go and touch raids.

Currently there are three ways of acquiring legendary armor, did that diminish the population of raids? 

 

You can't agree with that because of your subjective interpretation of what you personally feel and think about the reason for improving legendaries multiple times. 

If you have been playing for so long, you will realize people wanted extra aspects to their legendary because it's such an expensive thing to craft, more so than ascended. It also received added convenience to the the new gear template system, because stat swap made it horrible and unusable when switching legendary gear between your characters. You would have to reset the stats all over  and so on, so in fact ascended gear was easier and more convenient to use. I literally never used my legendary armor until they made the legendary armory. I would just reskin my ascended gear with  the envoy armor skins.

 

lmao I am pretending??? That's a stretch.

They buffed them only once. That was when ascended gear came into the game.

Here let me help you out. 

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/initial

Initial as in the start of all GW2.

At the very start of the game, they literally released them as a cosmetic item. There was literally and physically no gear that was as impressive as them at the time. They literally have auras, footfalls, trail effects and projectile effects,. I mean come on man, you are really grasping at straws trying to "debunk" legendaries being initially intended as cosmetic/prestige items.

Players complain/protest for added convenience for their legendaries, which ANet eventually implemented over the many years.

If they had really intend it to be for convenience, they would have made those changes at the start or the first first few years of GW2's lifetime.

 

You literally have no proof to any of your claims. Raid population has been so small for a long time, even before the WvW and PvP variants. They had and still have legendary armor, yet most people aren't going there to get it.

[Ogwom.7940]

21 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Glad you understand that. Then applying every legendary to every type of content diminishes that incentive. Ok? Ok.

So we already have multiple options. Want full legendary gear? Play more of the game. "there is incentive in the skins" -we've just established legendary gear had to be improved multiple times and it's surely not because it was "too desired" by the players. So no, can't agree with that.

And then they buffed them on multiple occasions, so how can you even pretend that's the intention here?

 

But these items aren't "locked just behind one thing", what are you even talking about? They're just not all available through strictly playing basic open world content. These are two different things.

Legendary weapons are generally openworld acquired. Just Gift of Battle is WvW and everything else  from WvW/PvP game modes you can buy from TP.  What are two different things? It sounds like you are arguing against a point I never made.

I literally said multiple times if there was PvE openworld armor, it would be just like the legendary weapons. That's why I keep mentioning legendary weapons multiple times as a comparison to how they could be implemented.

[Sobx.1758]

Why do you keep responding multiple times to the same post?

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

31 minutes ago, Ogwom.7940 said:

Nope applying legendary to every game mode doesn't completely diminish incentive. Most people who want legendary armor but don't like raids will never go and touch raids.

Currently there are three ways of acquiring legendary armor, did that diminish the population of raids?

Cool, they don't have to, it's their choice to limit themselves in playable content of the game. But then they are free -and without a change perfectly fine- playing with ascended gear. It is perfectly fine exactly for the reason of not being a power creep. That's the point. Constantly.

On the other hand, some people DO venture out of their comfort zones to other modes because of that and then they improve/enjoy said content. Nobody said everyone should get everything by default.

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You can't agree with that because of your subjective interpretation of what you personally feel and think about the reason for improving legendaries multiple times. 

No, I can't agree with that exactly due to what I wrote.

Quote

If you have been playing for so long, you will realize people wanted extra aspects to their legendary because it's such an expensive thing to craft, more so than ascended. It also received added convenience to the the new gear template system, because stat swap made it horrible and unusable when switching legendary gear between your characters. You would have to reset the stats all over  and so on, so in fact ascended gear was easier and more convenient to use. I literally never used my legendary armor until they made the legendary armory. I would just reskin my ascended gear with  the envoy armor skins.

As I said, legendary gear got buffed on multiple occasions, because it needed to have higher perceived value. This is what I keep saying. What are you even ""explaining"" to me right now? The exact thing I'm saying in my last few posts already, while you're trying to pretend skins are enough? You literally JUST said it yourself here, the skins were not enough. And yet in your previous posts you try claiming they are. I think you might be accidentally starting to understand my point here?

(and, again, don't try explaining to me "what legendaries are" and "what their added functionality does", I'm perfectly aware of it. And these are EXACTLY the buffs to that gear I keep talking about in my last few posts)

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lmao I am pretending??? That's a stretch.

They buffed them only once. That was when ascended gear came into the game.

Here let me help you out. 

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/initial

Initial as in the start of all GW2.

"lmao" indeed:

If you understand it's irrelevant at the current time then why are you even bringing it up in place of any valid argument? Literally, what's the point? Maybe it's the fact that even IF that's what they initially wanted, it clearly wasn't enough and then the legendary tier gear still got buffed multiple times to increase its perceived value? So the skins were NOT enough? So that's what I'm saying, while you keep pretending legendary skins are enough, despite -apparently- understanding they are not?

Is this explanation enough to understand what you're pretending now or is there anything unclear here?

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At the very start of the game, they literally released them as a cosmetic item.

Yes. And it clearly wasn't enough. Do you understand that?

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You literally have no proof to any of your claims.

Literally every buff to legendary gear ever  -"you have no proof" 🤦‍♂️

25 minutes ago, Ogwom.7940 said:

Legendary weapons are generally openworld acquired.

Yes, I know that. Hence why I'm talking about "spreading legendary gear over varied content throughout the game". If you add everything to meta completion, it's no longer spread over varied content. For real: do you understand this sentence? If not, then tell me what's unclear here.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Ogwom.7940]

38 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Why do you keep responding multiple times to the same post?

 

Cool, they don't have to, it's their choice to limit themselves in playable content of the game. But then they are free -and without a change perfectly fine- playing with ascended gear. It is perfectly fine exactly for the reason of not being a power creep. That's the point. Constantly.

On the other hand, some people DO venture out of their comfort zones to other modes because of that and then they improve/enjoy said content. Nobody said everyone should get everything by default.

No, I can't agree with that exactly due to what I wrote.

As I said, legendary gear got buffed on multiple occasions, because it needed to have higher perceived value. This is what I keep saying. What are you even ""explaining"" to me right now? The exact thing I'm saying in my last few posts already, while you're trying to pretend skins are enough? You literally JUST said it yourself here, the skins were not enough. And yet in your previous posts you try claiming they are. I think you might be accidentally starting to understand my point here?

(and, again, don't try explaining to me "what legendaries are" and "what their added functionality does", I'm perfectly aware of it. And these are EXACTLY the buffs to that gear I keep talking about in my last few posts)

"lmao" indeed:

If you understand it's irrelevant at the current time then why are you even bringing it up in place of any valid argument? Literally, what's the point? Maybe it's the fact that even IF that's what they initially wanted, it clearly wasn't enough and then the legendary tier gear still got buffed multiple times to increase its perceived value? So the skins were NOT enough? So that's what I'm saying, while you keep pretending legendary skins are enough, despite -apparently- understanding they are not?

Is this explanation enough to understand what you're pretending now or is there anything unclear here?

Yes. And it clearly wasn't enough. Do you understand that?

Literally every buff to legendary gear ever  -"you have no proof" 🤦‍♂️

Yes, I know that. Hence why I'm talking about "spreading legendary gear over varied content throughout the game". If you add everything to meta conmplition, it's no longer spread over varied content. For real: do you understand this sentence? If not, then tell me what's unclear here.

Because you keep editing your post. 

 

That still makes no sense. Legendary weapons are not gated behind very specific content. Why should legendary armor not receive that same treatment? Your point you arguing doesn't exist. There are more people with a legendary weapon than there are people with a single legendary envoy armor piece. Or even legendary armor in general. 

 

I literally never said skins were enough. I said that convenience isn't the only incentive to acquiring these weapons and that their original implementation was for cosmetic/prestige. You are the one putting words in my mouth. You are the one who says convenience is the only incentive and that ascended should be just fine.

Even then, it's just your subjective opinion that legendary gear being convenient is better for the game if it's locked behind something so niche like raids.

Also I never said no one would be adventurous and try raids or other content outside of their box. i am pretty sure most people who don't play that content have literally done that very thing and they found out they don't like that content, so they don't play it anymore.

 

You are becoming unhinged. I am not explaining to you what legendries are. I am explaining what their intended use was for. You keep denying the fact they are prestige/cosmetic item for some reason and I keep telling you multiple times why they are. 

 

3 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

How do you know what the exact "original intent for legendaries" was?

 

I keep bringing it up because you seem to want to keep denying it. Yes, so what if they buffed and added convenience to the items? I don't disagree with it being a good thing. You keep misrepresenting my position, and then arguing on that misrepresentation. You really need to stop doing this because right now it is not a constructive conversation. You can keep fantasizing about me pretending that I think the skins were enough and that the buffs weren't necessary or important in legendary gear development over the years.

I will not discuss that anymore as I will not participate in the mental gymnastics you are trying to make right now by arguing something I never even meant or said.

Yes I clearly understand that it wasn't enough. When did I deny that?

 

38 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Literally every buff to legendary gear ever  -"you have no proof" 🤦‍♂️

The claims you made were (1) envoy armor being a huge incentive for doing that content, and (2) You attempting to "debunk" legendary gear's initial intent. I mean come one now, you literally left out those points and added the arguing point based on non existent argument. I can see that you are quite deceptive and like to manipulate the narrative to your side. 

38 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Yes, I know that. Hence why I'm talking about "spreading legendary gear over varied content throughout the game". If you add everything to meta conmplition, it's no longer spread over varied content. For real: do you understand this sentence? If not, then tell me what's unclear here.

You literally only have to go into WvW to acquire a gift of battle for the Legendry weapons. That's it. Absolutely 100% not even close to being "spread out" through the game. Super fast and simple. It's an openworld PvE legendary. You seem to not understand that I keep saying an openworld PvE legendary armor set would be acquired similar way to legendary weapons, which means you would have to go into some aspect of WvW for a very, VERY short time. 

 

Anyways, you can keep arguing with me, but I am still waiting for you to answer my earlier questions as well as bring proof to disprove anything I said. So far you are literally just screaming you r subjective opinion of what you personally feel the situation and how you feel it should be solved rather than looking at historic fact. On top of that you are being disingenuous in your arguments.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

You can AFK and fail your way to full legendary armor in WvW.

 

Adding a second legendary armor to PvE since Competitive gets two would actually be more work than PvP and WvW puts into theirs.

 

All arguments against players wanting ways to get legendary in every game mode or saying that "players are too lazy to raid" are defeated.

[Moradorin.6217]

18 minutes ago, Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

You can AFK and fail your way to full legendary armor in WvW.

 

Adding a second legendary armor to PvE since Competitive gets two would actually be more work than PvP and WvW puts into theirs.

 

All arguments against players wanting ways to get legendary in every game mode or saying that "players are too lazy to raid" are defeated.

You can AFK and fail ur way to all types of legendary armor with the one acception of Cairn heart on envoy 2 collection. However, I would say that's the least fun, least efficient way to get legendary armor. Its faster and more fun to just participate in which ever mode you choose.

[Sobx.1758]

2 hours ago, Ogwom.7940 said:

Because you keep editing your post. 

lol. Yeah, I've edited that post to add your second post that you've sent as a second response to the same quote, when I was already writing -so it was the outcome of your initial double response in the first place 😄  

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That still makes no sense. Legendary weapons are not gated behind very specific content. Why should legendary armor not receive that same treatment? Your point you arguing doesn't exist. There are more people with a legendary weapon than there are people with a single legendary envoy armor piece. Or even legendary armor in general. 

Which part?

Full legendary gear =/= legendary weapons. What I said makes sense and is literally based on facts, while all you do is pick one category of legendary gear -weapons- and then try applying the same rules to everything that's currently different. Different, meaning directly confirming what I'm saying. It's clear I'm not the one that "makes no sense", since I'm just describing what's currently in the game. Meanwhile you have your feelings and repeating that "weapons are in open world, so everything else should be in open world". No, it should and that's literally what's being discussed(?) here. In what way do I "not make sense"? Which part exactly? Is it the one that, again, is literally describing what we currently have in the game, which you try to discredit because... you feel it should be different?

"there are more", but there also are constantly new people crafting the rest of the gear and getting into content that's not open world. If it wasn't the case, I wouldn't be writing about "incentives to branch out into other modes to try and improve" in the first place, don't you think? 🤔 Waht are you even trying to argue here? That the reason to have those incentives still exists? Yes, it does. Correct.

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I literally never said skins were enough. I said that convenience isn't the only incentive to acquiring these weapons and that their original implementation was for cosmetic/prestige. You are the one putting words in my mouth. You are the one who says convenience is the only incentive and that ascended should be just fine.

You didn't? What's the point of all this talk then when I keep talking about incentivizing players to go into modes other then open world content? Below quotes from your posts until the blue emojis:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/105859-pve-legendary-armor/page/4/?tab=comments#comment-1533412

"That's fine, but why can't we have legendary armor spread through openworld just like the weapons are? This doesn't prevent people from playing other game modes. It just allows players to be able to acquire a skin/s from an alternative source."

"Yes, playing with ascended gear is a valid option, but the original intent for legendries was to achieve a unique skin by investing many hours into the game. It wasn't always about the convenience. There are people who want to get unique skins with unique effects as well. Cause fashionwars"

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/105859-pve-legendary-armor/page/4/?tab=comments#comment-1533474

"All current legendary gear types won't be moved to be acquired in open world. I am just simply saying 1 set. The other legendary armor skins can still be acquired in their respective game modes."

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/105859-pve-legendary-armor/page/4/?tab=comments#comment-1533505

"Yes exactly, legendary gear spread over varied content incentives branching out to acquire that gear. Putting legnedary WvW armor doesn't affect this. You can still go to raids to get the raid skins. There is incentive in the skins."  ⬅️⬅️

If skins aren't enough (since you claim you've never said they were), then what's the point of these responses? ESPECIALLY the last one? Why are you so hung up on your claim that "when introduced, it was about the skins!" (despite the fact we know how many times and how significantly legendary gear got buffed, while still preserving no powercreep when compared to ascended gear) or that "adding additional gear to OW doesn't diminish incentives, since there are still the skins" if now you're set on claiming you never said skins are enough of an incentive? What are you even doing right now?

Seriously: if you understand skins aren't enough of an incentive, then what was the point of your last few posts saying/repeating all of that stuff and hanging up on "how it was 8 years ago"? You know it's irrelevant, but you're still trying to use it as an argument? How does that make any sense? I really hope you can explain this to me.

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 You keep denying the fact they are prestige/cosmetic item for some reason and I keep telling you multiple times why they are. 

Where/when exactly did I "keep denying" that? I'll just go ahead and link you my post from yesterday from this very thread with this exact wording:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/105859-pve-legendary-armor/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-1532399

"Nah, leave the optional prestige rewards(...)"

So much for trying to tell me I'm denying they're prestige rewards. Seriously, I don't know what you're even talking about right now, because it surely isn't about what i wrote in this thread.

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I keep bringing it up because you seem to want to keep denying it. Yes, so what if they buffed and added convenience to the items? I don't disagree with it being a good thing. You keep misrepresenting my position, and then arguing on that misrepresentation. You really need to stop doing this because right now it is not a constructive conversation. You can keep fantasizing about me pretending that I think the skins were enough and that the buffs weren't necessary or important in legendary gear development over the years.

I will not discuss that anymore as I will not participate in the mental gymnastics you are trying to make right now by arguing something I never even meant or said.

Yes I clearly understand that it wasn't enough. When did I deny that?

No,  I'm asking why you keep bringing it up since what they might have or might have not been literally 8 years ago is irrelevant to anything now.

"So what if..."? -So if all the buffs they got throughout the years prove anything, it's that skins were never enough, which is also what I've already wrote above. Which is also why repeating "but at releaase they were just skins" is pointless. If you understand it was not enough, then there's litearlly no point to try and bring it up as any valid arugment, which is exactly what you're doing.

To skip one step ahead: if you understand that the argument isn't valid, then there's no reason to type it out. Which is why I don't understand why you're so hung up on something that changes nothing about what is discussed here.

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The claims you made were (1) envoy armor being a huge incentive for doing that content, and (2) You attempting to "debunk" legendary gear's initial intent. I mean come one now, you literally left out those points and added the arguing point based on non existent argument. I can see that you are quite deceptive and like to manipulate the narrative to your side. 

1. I know people who started raiding because of that and I know it was an initial draw for me, I don't need any more proof than that. All you can say is that it won't work for everyone, but I'm not sure how that changes anything I said.

2. No, I don't exactly "diminish" that out of the gate, it's more of the case where I asked you for source of your claim and you had none. Right? Because you didn't. And on top of that, we know that legendary gear got repeatedly buffed. Not sure if I need to repeat what that potentially shows, since I've already wrote it quite a lot above. Again: If you understand skins aren't enough then that's great, because that's literally the point. But then I don't know why you're trying to use something that took place 8 years ago as anything worth mentioning here, since it sure isn't an argument that changes what I said.

Quote

You literally only have to go into WvW to acquire a gift of battle for the Legendry weapons. That's it. Absolutely 100% not even close to being "spread out" through the game. Super fast and simple. It's an openworld PvE legendary. You seem to not understand that I keep saying an openworld PvE legendary armor set would be acquired similar way to legendary weapons, which means you would have to go into some aspect of WvW for a very, VERY short time. 

Ah, I think I understand what you're missing here...

Yeah, so you get the weapon from open world pve and then... If you want full legenadary gear (which is literally what I keep writing this whole time and what you're ignoring for some reason), you have to branch out to other modes than the basic open world metazerging. Is this clear now? Again: full legendary gear. Not sure why you're repeating "weapons!" all the time here.

Quote

Anyways, you can keep arguing with me, but I am still waiting for you to answer my earlier questions as well as bring proof to disprove anything I said. So far you are literally just screaming you r subjective opinion of what you personally feel the situation and how you feel it should be solved rather than looking at historic fact. On top of that you are being disingenuous in your arguments.

So far I'm describing what we currently have in the game, so -again- not sure what you're trying to do here? What we currently have in the game is far from "my subjective opinion", these are just facts.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

You can AFK and fail your way to full legendary armor in WvW.

 

Adding a second legendary armor to PvE since Competitive gets two would actually be more work than PvP and WvW puts into theirs.

 

All arguments against players wanting ways to get legendary in every game mode or saying that "players are too lazy to raid" are defeated.

If it's so convenient and easy, then go do that then? Or maybe explain what other dependable reward structure you'd implement in competitive environment, where you can take two unspecified "best players in the world" and one of them will still lose? It's almost as if that's why competitive gets rewards for participation instead of success, whereas rewarding players in co-op modes for defeating set encounters is easier to make to be fair for everyone.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Sobx.1758