Asking for help regarding Rangers (solo roaming)

[ysnake.3619]

Greetings there, to preface this: I am NOT complaining about balance or going "ahrmerged rengur nurf treelbrezuur" - what I am simply requesting is help.

 

As anyone who solo roams you are bound to meet a lot of Ranger variants, from Power to Condi. In my view, Power Rangers have a clear weakness in: when you get on top of them, they have problems (however, they do have ways to create distance and apply pressure before that is the case), and one can see the clear difference between good and bad players regarding this.

 

However, I'd say 80% of the time, I am fighting a form of Condition Ranger (both Soulbeast and the worst, Druid) - and this is where things tend to get a bit... overwhelming. They, most of the time, seem immortal in a 1v1 scenario.

 

What I am playing are: Celestial Dueling Mesmer (I switch from Infinite Horizon to Elusive Mind if I know I'm going to be against a Condi Ranger) and Celestial Renegade/Herald (these outright die to Condi Rangers) - in regards to other classes, I cannot "cheese-kill" any of them, some of them are stalemates (Cele Weavers), I do have high-survivability and I am usually in prolonged fights against others, but I find it extremely fun as better players do get the best of me, while I can style a bit on players with less experience - I have no problems being outplayed and going "oh man, that guy really dodged all my big things and kited out, woow" - at times, I am honestly impressed by some players.

 

What I am asking is: what profession/spec do Rangers see and go "aww hell naaw"? And what is their clear weakness or what sort of playstyle must you have to counter the Root/Trapper Druids that are rampant?

Edited January 10, 2022 by ysnake.3619

[Sahne.6950]

2 hours ago, ysnake.3619 said:

Greetings there, to preface this: I am NOT complaining about balance or going "ahrmerged rengur nurf treelbrezuur" - what I am simply requesting is help.

 

As anyone who solo roams you are bound to meet a lot of Ranger variants, from Power to Condi. In my view, Power Rangers have a clear weakness in: when you get on top of them, they have problems (however, they do have ways to create distance and apply pressure before that is the case), and one can see the clear difference between good and bad players regarding this.

 

However, I'd say 80% of the time, I am fighting a form of Condition Ranger (both Soulbeast and the worst, Druid) - and this is where things tend to get a bit... overwhelming. They, most of the time, seem immortal in a 1v1 scenario.

 

What I am playing are: Celestial Dueling Mesmer (I switch from Infinite Horizon to Elusive Mind if I know I'm going to be against a Condi Ranger) and Celestial Renegade/Herald (these outright die to Condi Rangers) - in regards to other classes, I cannot "cheese-kill" any of them, some of them are stalemates (Cele Weavers), I do have high-survivability and I am usually in prolonged fights against others, but I find it extremely fun as better players do get the best of me, while I can style a bit on players with less experience - I have no problems being outplayed and going "oh man, that guy really dodged all my big things and kited out, woow" - at times, I am honestly impressed by some players.

 

What I am asking is: what profession/spec do Rangers see and go "aww hell naaw"? And what is their clear weakness or what sort of playstyle must you have to counter the Root/Trapper Druids that are rampant?

CONDIBUILDS. Every rangers biggest fear is condiclowns.

 

This will actually be a kinda weird suggestion but i am running it at the moment and i have no problem against any build in wvw atm. Except the enemy greatly outskills me and that is rare. 

Celestial Ventari Renegade with Salvation tree.

You have projectilehate with almost 100% uptime and blind on demand. Every rangers biggest fear... A CONDICLOWN WITH PROJECTILEHATE 😄

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmgAUZlxQJMPii1RTMOqiRShMCagH1U6bD-zxIY1oi/UiUBkpIoUJQvCBJPL+ItB-e 

Vallun made a Video about it on Youtube.

Learning to move your tablet and actually using it to blind your opponent can be a pain in the kitten.... but once it becomes musclememory this build is INSANE in the current meta. try it^^

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Ronin.4501]

I run a condi mirage build (axe/pistol + scepter/torch) with sigils of cleansing/absorption, but I think it's as much about being comfortable with the class/build as it is about the class/build itself.  I'm confident with my build going up against almost any build on any class, whereas when I'm playing other roaming-meta builds I don't fare as well because I'm not as comfortable (or knowledgeable).

 

But it's also important to use the terrain to your advantage...basically against any class, not just rangers.  If you don't do well against rangers, don't roam solo across open areas of the map.  Navigate along paths that have a lot of LOS breaks like trees and rocks (on alpine bl this means avoiding the center of the map, and on desert bl moving through the center of the map.  Besides, it's good to know these routes nowadays as a solo roamer because more often than not you're going to encounter groups of players, not other solos, when you roam across the open areas of the map.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Ronin.4501

[Abyssisis.3971]

As a condi ranger, I find thieves, particularly deadeyes the worst class to fight against due to 300 ping vs stealth, it’s just not fun being attacked while the thief hasn’t even rendered in for me to see it lol

[Dawdler.8521]

VS power rangers - use condi bunker or fast melee attacks that can evade the first burst (like a tp thief), which usually decide the fight. 

VS condi rangers - overwhelming force by multiple allies since condi is bad above 1v1 or another medium-long range condi and position awareness. Trappers have poor cleansing and rely on you walking into their traps without dodging.

In my experience the hardest to beat are neither of these extremes but rather the tanky hybrids with tons of cleanse

[Tornjak.6425]

As a multiclass player and condi druid amongst other things Id say my biggest problem is killing players in a row without Them Ever Being able to answer to anything i throw at Them, and Then running into somebody who is not a complete walkover. What happens Then is usually me blowing out my rotation and Then screaming "oh crap".

There is No class Imo that is hardcounter to condi druid, but firebrand, ele and scrapper can draw it out to stalemate sometimes.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Anything with heavy cleanse or a ton of barrier is a counter to condi (bleed) druid.  And I'm talking the druids that use staff and are actually hard to kill (not these rando LB trapper druids). 

If I see a bunker build as an immob / bleed-based druid I'm just going to avoid it, as it is either going to end in a 10-minute stalemate (seriously, look at any 'roaming montage' and its mostly drawn-out kiting 'fights') or I'm going to die because will get +1, +2, +3'd...

For power, as long as they aren't good and are running your standard sic' em' LB build, just close the gap.  If you can't close the gap, let them run as typically they are harmless after that.  If they are decent, then I find there really aren't a whole lot of classes that give them trouble outside of heavy CC ones (like warrior variants that can CC long past your dolyak stance). 

Edited January 10, 2022 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

12 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

CONDIBUILDS. Every rangers biggest fear is condiclowns.

 

This will actually be a kinda weird suggestion but i am running it at the moment and i have no problem against any build in wvw atm. Except the enemy greatly outskills me and that is rare. 

Celestial Ventari Renegade with Salvation tree.

You have projectilehate with almost 100% uptime and blind on demand. Every rangers biggest fear... A CONDICLOWN WITH PROJECTILEHATE 😄

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmgAUZlxQJMPii1RTMOqiRShMCagH1U6bD-zxIY1oi/UiUBkpIoUJQvCBJPL+ItB-e 

Vallun made a Video about it on Youtube.

Learning to move your tablet and actually using it to blind your opponent can be a pain in the kitten.... but once it becomes musclememory this build is INSANE in the current meta. try it^^

 

+1 to this suggestion. You might laugh at first, but I ran into someone playing this build or something very similar and he wrecked me lol. Incidentally, thanks for the build link, I was looking for that xD

[Hotride.2187]

12 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

CONDIBUILDS. Every rangers biggest fear is condiclowns.

I know you meant clones but its hard to not laugh at this.

[subversiontwo.7501]

19 hours ago, ysnake.3619 said:

However, I'd say 80% of the time, I am fighting a form of Condition Ranger (both Soulbeast and the worst, Druid) - and this is where things tend to get a bit... overwhelming. They, most of the time, seem immortal in a 1v1 scenario.

 

What I am playing are: Celestial Dueling Mesmer (I switch from Infinite Horizon to Elusive Mind if I know I'm going to be against a Condi Ranger) and Celestial Renegade/Herald (these outright die to Condi Rangers).

I think you highlight the issue here already in your description but you may not be able to conclude what you observe. I think there are three things worth pointing out: In my oppinion and I'm sure others with me, condition Rangers are a balance issue. Not so much due what conditions trade in application for survival on most condition builds but mainly thanks to their access to immobilisation and how powerful that has been allowed to become. Most conditions builds are balanced by not having as much control over engagement and disengagement, when they gain too much mobility or control over mobility they start to become unstable (both strong and hard to balance).

The second paragraphs highlights more of your personal issue with it. Celestial builds need to be understood on what they do and do not do. That is often overlooked among players who tend to ignore its drawbacks and just complain about what it does. The reality is that despite whatever extra stats you gain from it you never specialise into anything and as a result most Celestial builds rest upon being able to adapt to more situations but almost always look to outperform an opponent at what they do or to adapt and play into holes of opponents that require a good deal of knowledge to identify and adapt to. They tend to lose straight trades no matter how well the stats fit a class.

It is also a question of looking at how fit different classes are to play Celestial and, in the case of dealing with conditions, how well those classes and builds deal with conditions. In my experience Mesmer builds often become far too flat with Celestial stats. They have few tools to compensate for not dedicating into any primary stat often leading to pure condition or power builds not only being more popular but also more potent in general. It is less that Mesmer can't play in a condition-tug scenario but rather that it just does it much better as condition itself. Condition Mesmers can often counterplay and overwhelm condition Rangers but going Celestial just makes you toothless in that trade and either of your attacks just feed into their defenses.

For hybrid or condition Revenants it is a different issue. They used to rely heavily on boons and traits to counter conditions but that was nerfed. Even more recent builds that bring in Centaur stance to cope with the changes are not super potent at cleansing (they rely as much on reflections against projetile-based condition attacks as cleanses) and if you've not adapted with Centaur stance at all you play a build that is just largely unequipped and weak at dealing with conditions even if it deals alot of conditions itself. That's how Anet decided to balance Revs - good at dealing, weak at what they themselves deal. So they are bound to try to overwhelm agressively but can be counterplayed by more experienced opponents and tend to struggle against any opponent that can corrupt, return or control application flows. For example, your Mesmer should beat your Rev because it can take boons, return conditions and affect the flow with stealth and counters.

All in all, from your current position, if you want to bring a tool to deal with condition Rangers: play your Mesmer and pocket a condi build to counterplay them. Most other options involve bringing other classes or just gaining more experience or ~playing better. I'm sure someone else can give you tips to broaden your knowledge or learning to play it better. I've not spent enough time on Celestial on my Mesmers myself as I don't see much value in it. I like Celestial in general though, so I've played it enough to comment in general.

Edited January 11, 2022 by subversiontwo.7501

[ysnake.3619]

Thank you all for delightful replies. It is as I dreaded, everything I play (besides the Cele Weaver) will have a hard time against these Condispam Druids (I do have a Trailblazer Mirage ready to go, however, it almost feels cheap to play it, wins over others don't feel "gratifying", which is more of a "me" issue, not the build issue obviously).

 

On a new update, after several weeks of spending and learning Mirage, I have abandoned the Celestial variant - at times, damage really felt lackluster and the additional sustain did not justify the huge lack of damage (it is better to play a Cele Weaver in that case). 

 

Thank you for all the replies everyone!

[Sahne.6950]

11 hours ago, subversiontwo.7501 said:

I think you highlight the issue here already in your description but you may not be able to conclude what you observe. I think there are three things worth pointing out: In my oppinion and I'm sure others with me, condition Rangers are a balance issue. Not so much due what conditions trade in application for survival on most condition builds but mainly thanks to their access to immobilisation and how powerful that has been allowed to become. Most conditions builds are balanced by not having as much control over engagement and disengagement, when they gain too much mobility or control over mobility they start to become unstable (both strong and hard to balance).

The second paragraphs highlights more of your personal issue with it. Celestial builds need to be understood on what they do and do not do. That is often overlooked among players who tend to ignore its drawbacks and just complain about what it does. The reality is that despite whatever extra stats you gain from it you never specialise into anything and as a result most Celestial builds rest upon being able to adapt to more situations but almost always look to outperform an opponent at what they do or to adapt and play into holes of opponents that require a good deal of knowledge to identify and adapt to. They tend to lose straight trades no matter how well the stats fit a class.

It is also a question of looking at how fit different classes are to play Celestial and, in the case of dealing with conditions, how well those classes and builds deal with conditions. In my experience Mesmer builds often become far too flat with Celestial stats. They have few tools to compensate for not dedicating into any primary stat often leading to pure condition or power builds not only being more popular but also more potent in general. It is less that Mesmer can't play in a condition-tug scenario but rather that it just does it much better as condition itself. Condition Mesmers can often counterplay and overwhelm condition Rangers but going Celestial just makes you toothless in that trade and either of your attacks just feed into their defenses.

For hybrid or condition Revenants it is a different issue. They used to rely heavily on boons and traits to counter conditions but that was nerfed. Even more recent builds that bring in Centaur stance to cope with the changes are not super potent at cleansing (they rely as much on reflections against projetile-based condition attacks as cleanses) and if you've not adapted with Centaur stance at all you play a build that is just largely unequipped and weak at dealing with conditions even if it deals alot of conditions itself. That's how Anet decided to balance Revs - good at dealing, weak at what they themselves deal. So they are bound to try to overwhelm agressively but can be counterplayed by more experienced opponents and tend to struggle against any opponent that can corrupt, return or control application flows. For example, your Mesmer should beat your Rev because it can take boons, return conditions and affect the flow with stealth and counters.

All in all, from your current position, if you want to bring a tool to deal with condition Rangers: play your Mesmer and pocket a condi build to counterplay them. Most other options involve bringing other classes or just gaining more experience or ~playing better. I'm sure someone else can give you tips to broaden your knowledge or learning to play it better. I've not spent enough time on Celestial on my Mesmers myself as I don't see much value in it. I like Celestial in general though, so I've played it enough to comment in general.

Concerning the revenant condi problems. (i know its not on topic sorry^_^)

 

when equipped antitoxin and sigil of generosity you have an ABSURD amount of cleanse... All reflects aside. you have multiple OH KITTEN buttons that instantly clear ALL of the condis. Staff4 cleanses 4condis  legendswap 2condis weaponswap 4condis swapping legends on staff cleanses 6 condis tablet skill cleanses 4condis and every 6 seconds you cleanse another 2 thanks to generosity sigil . That is more then enough to have 2 condiCLOWNS on you and just stand still and /laugh. The cooldown on all the cleanses is just kitten low also. the longest CD is staff 4 with something along the lines of 12 seconds(not sure), the rest is timegated by legend and weaponswaps / the tablet cleanse has no CD at all <3.

Cleanse is rly overtuned on ventari/antitoxinbuilds. OHH And dont forget that you heal for condis cleansed by the tablet. 😛

Edit:  I forgot to mention that you have about 2k shield on you at all times, which eat up all the small conditicks that anyone might apply. its a trait in salvation i think giving you barrier per second for having boons on you.

Edited January 11, 2022 by Sahne.6950