15000 max Achivs from dailies! Why???

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Yes, indeed, but nothing about the cap that was in existence long before the change. 

[Astralporing.1957]

3 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

Yes, indeed, but nothing about the cap that was in existence long before the change. 

Actually, if you look at the reasoning given, it seems to have been written before the existence of the cap. Because the reason given for the changes was simply no longer true after cap's introduction.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

The cap was noted in the Wiki before the change.  The Wiki does not state changes are live before the fact. 

[AgentMoore.9453]

3 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

it seems to have been written before the existence of the cap.

I think you might be right that they were related, the timeline's just closer than you might recall. You can still find some old threads here on the forum (including some vintage posts from Inculpatus!) discussing the cap and pros/cons of removing/keeping it. They seem to indicate that the cap was added in 2014 or thereabouts. Did a little digging to see if I could find some other info from that time (There was a lot going on systemswise back then).

There's this article which states:

• There are a few other general changes to daily achievements. There will be a limit of 10,000 daily and 5,000 monthly achievement points

So I guess the cap was added ~April 2014 and the changes linked here were made in ~December 2014. Can anyone confirm?

Edited January 25, 2022 by AgentMoore.9453

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

There's the Wiki that states the 10,000 Daily cap was active in June 2014.  It may have been active before; I don't know how to find out when someone could have first acquired 10,000 APs. 

[Moradorin.6217]

3 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

There's the Wiki that states the 10,000 Daily cap was active in June 2014.  It may have been active before; I don't know how to find out when someone could have first acquired 10,000 APs. 

1000 days in seems like. That is, if a player did the daily for 10 ap every single day it would be 1k days. so about 2.5 yr so some time in 2014 maybe?

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

A thousand days would be around the 15th of May, 2015.  Monthly and Daily caps were combined April 15th, 2014.  It looks like the cap was created on that date; though, I'm not sure anyone could have reached it before then.  🤷‍♂️

[Astralporing.1957]

3 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

A thousand days would be around the 15th of May, 2015.  Monthly and Daily caps were combined April 15th, 2014.  It looks like the cap was created on that date; though, I'm not sure anyone could have reached it before then.  🤷‍♂️

First, in April 2014, Anet introduced a separate cap of 10k for dailies and 5k for monthlies. They were merged at some indefinite point later, - probably in December 2014, when monthlies themselves were removed.

It's hard to count when the first person hit the cap as well, due to the fact that dailies weren't always giving the same amount of AP. First time they were introduced you could get as much as 25 AP from PvE ones (and i think a bit more from PvP) per day. Then there was the 1 ap per daily time (with amount of dailies available per day changing every now and then - it wasn't always 10. Especially on festival days, when festival dailies were on top of normal ones. And the normal number before december 2014 rework was also 12 dailies, not 10). So, you could reach the cap much earlier than just counting 10 ap per day. The date itself is also known - there were posts on forums to that end, both for reaching 10k cap, and 15k cap, from the top leaderboard people -  but i can't find those posts at this moment.

Edit: correction. apparently merging daily and monthly caps happened in some patch early january 2015 (with no notes in the patch itself). That's when first reddit posts show up that noticed their dailies started increasing again.

Edit2: apparently first people hit the 10k cap around November 2014. Couldn't find anything for 15k cap, but noticed the mention that the highest AP people had around 2500 AP from monthlies when caps were finally merged, so we shoud add around 250 days from the beginning of january 2015. So, most likely the first time 15k cap was reached was around August/September 2015.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Astralporing.1957

[ShadowCatz.8437]

On 1/23/2022 at 5:55 AM, AgentMoore.9453 said:

As an achievement hunter, I'm in favor of removing the cap and continuing the AP rewards system, preferably with armor pieces that can be dyed and weapon sets and titles that are on par with those already offered by it.

AP are a personal measurement of progress, and it doesn't matter how many other people have in my opinion, so I don't buy the whole 'new people won't be able to catch up!' thing. New people won't be able to get the ninth year birthday gift for nine years either, but no one seems to mind that. I also never felt the pressure to do dailies that some people talk about; I'd do them if I had the time or inclination since the AP was nice, but I definitely feel demotivated to do them now that AP are no longer available - I do occasionally do a daily if it's easy, but I very seldom go for a whole set of them like I used to.

As birthday gift are counting from when a character have been created it is very possible to get a 9 year gift if this game will exist for more then 9 years also for player that started their characters later. The logic here seem to be that because someone where with this game from the very start of its existence that those players will permantetly be ahead of those that started their characters later.

 

To the generalt discussion about AP:
AP is also related to account rewards, so that cap is there to prevent accounts to passivly gain more Gold, getting rewards chests (account bound skin, laurels and other things like Gems on certain stages of AP).

Here you can see the list of every step that will give an acivement chest which will have an impact on account:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Achievement_point_rewards 

Passive log in rewards from doing only three tasks that will gradually increase AP, give log in reward from log in (and free Living World Season when it is the "free" window for getting it added to account) and every time those three tasks have been finished also get a 2 Gold increase would be to attractive for autologin on multiple accounts.

The cap for AP is there also to make it possible and attractive for new accounts (which hopefully are also one player) to catch up without having a large impact on those that already have passed cap.

Every MMO need to have some kind of catch up for players that create an account later then those that started earlier to be able to get a feeling that they also can get there (as for AP and AP chests rewards) without making it too attractive for RMT accounts. RMT account will would be then be much more attractive as those will be created with the only purpose of being sold as those will then have a "base" from more Gold income, Laurels and also have every LW story for "free" just because they could accumulate all this over time compared to accounts created from scratch which nothing to start with outside of expansions that where bought when they bought this game).

A cap will at least make it less attractive to just passivily gain AP over time. We have already massive amount of AFK farming in almost every content in this game (WvW have bots that farm NPCs, PvP I don't know what they farm and PvE farm static objects like nodes or NPCs), bots that occupy maps and scripted log in farm nodes and out again in a blink characters that seem to happen too fast for a normal farming player which use permanent tools to gather nodes (those take time to finish their animation, so blink in and out would not be normal game play for farming and it isn't player that change characters to farm as this happens very too many characters at exactly the same position for characters when they spawn).

I think any real discussion should keep that in mind before just focus on a cap for Daily log in as a way to restrict "veteran" players for gaining AP when they hit todays cap at 15 000 AP.

Edited January 26, 2022 by ShadowCatz.8437
Corrected cap from 10 000 AP to 15 000 AP after checking with GW2 wiki

[AgentMoore.9453]

54 minutes ago, ShadowCatz.8437 said:

would be to attractive for autologin on multiple accounts.

Plenty of things already are, and you can even see threads where people have asked for ways to make logging into their multiple accounts easier. I really don't think AP rewards motivate any sort of bad behavior that isn't already encouraged naturally by other rewards and systems already on offer. Why are daily AP rewards okay for the first 15k but not after? Or are you advocating for their removal?

57 minutes ago, ShadowCatz.8437 said:

birthday gift are counting from when a character have been created it is very possible to get a 9 year gift if this game will exist for more then 9 years

Yes, and I said as much in my post. But by the time they get their 9th gift, other players who have played longer will still be unreachably far ahead of them - and that's assuming the game lasts another nine years. The point is that it's a system of progress/milestones that has given out more rewards to people who have been here longer which has seen little resistance compared to daily AP which function similarly (difference being one is awarded for existing and one is awarded for doing stuff).

1 hour ago, ShadowCatz.8437 said:

The cap for AP is there also to make it possible and attractive for new accounts (which hopefully are also one player) to catch up

Which they still may not be able to do so long as ArenaNet keeps adding new achievements and which may not be important to people who aren't comparing their AP to those of other players. I also don't think the desire to hit the top is as widespread as you think.

Some people think the catch up thing is important (or likely); I don't. I'm nowhere close to the top of the leaderboard and I still feel motivated to chase AP knowing I may never get there. Most of my friends are well below 10,000 (total) from various sources, and the wider pool of people I know in my guilds and groups don't chase AP at all. If the cap evaporated today, they wouldn't bat an eye, and I could continue my 'ooo daily' side quest with perfect equilibrium.

1 hour ago, ShadowCatz.8437 said:

A cap will at least make it less attractive to just passivily gain AP over time.

I sincerely doubt this. The accounts you see autofarming and engaging in botting are (supposedly) making bare minimum gains, but it's all they need to turn a profit with things like RMT. As long as there's any sort of benefit, bad actors will act because there is no effort required on their part and their accounts are largely disposable. A cap does not impact that mindset therefore it shouldn't be used as a reason to add one.

The only thing the cap has made less attractive for me is actively doing my dailies and visiting the places contained therein.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

RMT account will would be then be much more attractive as those will be created with the only purpose of being sold as those will then have a "base" from more Gold income, Laurels and also have every LW story for "free" just because they could accumulate all this over time

Really?  RMT accounts wait 9 years before selling the accounts?  Seems unproductive. 

[Sobx.1758]

btw if OP reached 15k daily AP (and this thread makes me assume he did), then he currently has more daily AP than for all the other achievements combined. Seems like a rasonable bit of context to add in light of the OP claiming "active veteran players are deprived", "arenanet doesn't need veterans" or "anet too lazy to add rewards to the panel for achievements" (...when you still have plenty of rewards and achievements to complete -just not daily ones).

[Moradorin.6217]

36 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

btw if OP reached 15k daily AP (and this thread makes me assume he did), then he currently has more daily AP than for all the other achievements combined. Seems like a rasonable bit of context to add in light of the OP claiming "active veteran players are deprived", "arenanet doesn't need veterans" or "anet too lazy to add rewards to the panel for achievements" (...when you still have plenty of rewards and achievements to complete -just not daily ones).

It does make one wonder a little but same could be said of you at around 25k? Myself Im between 32k and 33k if I recall and I dont really care about getting more pinnacle skins or what ever. That said, I do miss seeing some indicator of progress/change from doing dailies. In fact, as I said, I no longer really look at the list other than to see if its Mystic forger day, but I did untill a while after hitting 15k cap. I just felt less reason to do it and after a while I stopping looking at it and do other things related to dailies less.

As I said above it wouldn't have to be 10 ap a day it could just be a counter or a new counter post 15k. It would just be nice its not something I feel is vital and think I said as much a few times. Since you make a point of checking on the OP tho I cant help but wonder why you care so much if you are between 24k-25k yourself.

Personally, I dont think ap is a good indicator of skill or achievement of great talent. AP is just a number that means that person spent some time playing and a big number means they arguably did more things in more modes, but it doesnt mean they played better or have more skill or ability or even know more about the game than a person with less than 20k ap who only plays one mode. I mean, its not like you have to sit in WvW till you get God/Godess of WvW to know wvw very very well. Nor do you need to do all raid CMs to have allot of AP from just playing pve.

I think some people make AP out to represent more than it does and then start feeling like this cap is so important. I mean part of me is fine w the cap because it means I dont have to play as much or work as hard to stay ahead in ap for what its worth, but I would rather see progress still from dailies myself and let others try to catch up from doing it too if they wish. However, I guess as a daily player I dont have any reason to fear that cause I would still gain 10 ap a day, unlike some inactive Vet who doesnt wana do that anymore. I just think its a rather odd view on accomplishment and the need to preserve the value of it seems kinda deluded.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Moradorin.6217

[Sobx.1758]

13 minutes ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

It does make one wonder a little but same could be said of you at around 25k?

Sure, except... do you see me pressing for that daily cap removed? 🤔 I'm literally against it throughout this thread.

 

Cool you've tried though. 😄

 

13 minutes ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

That said, I do miss seeing some indicator of progress/change from doing dailies.

Right... except we've already been through it, we've already agreed that if that's really what you want, then merely adding a "counter" similar to AoE acheievement would be enough and then you've went right back into pushing for removing the ap limit.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Moradorin.6217]

Give me back my treadmill! i miss it 😄

[Moradorin.6217]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Sure, except... do you see me pressing for that daily cap removed? 🤔 I'm literally against it throughout this thread.

 

Cool you've tried though. 🤦‍♂️

Right but I just wonder why you care in the same way you and now also I wonder why the OP cares. I think its obvious why I might care since Im about 17.5k ap over the cap on my main account and I play on others that are near 15k ap.

[Sobx.1758]

Just now, Moradorin.6217 said:

Right but I just wonder why you care in the same way you and now also I wonder why the OP cares. I think its obvious why I might care since Im about 17.5k ap over the cap on my main account and I play on others that are near 15k ap.

So go for other acheivements and stop pretending repeating the same daily events is "for the sake of seeing progression" and not just you trying to get more rewards with less effort.

Added to the post above while you were already responding:

15 minutes ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

That said, I do miss seeing some indicator of progress/change from doing dailies.

Right... except we've already been through it, we've already agreed that if that's really what you want, then merely adding a "counter" similar to AoE acheievement would be enough and then you've went right back into pushing for removing the ap limit.

[Moradorin.6217]

I mean its an interesting topic, but obviously it only impacts a certain % of the player base. I looked at my friends list and guild roster and only know a few people at or over 40k. Most who couldnt do allot of season 1 are stuck between 30-40k ap near as I can tell other than the most obsessive completionists.

[Moradorin.6217]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

So go for other acheivements and stop pretending repeating the same daily events is "for the sake of seeing progression" and not just you trying to get more rewards with less effort.

Added to the post above while you were already responding:

Right... except we've already been through it, we've already agreed that if that's really what you want, then merely adding a "counter" similar to AoE acheievement would be enough and then you've went right back into pushing for removing the ap limit.

What rewards are you imagining? I dont understand that part honestly. I dont use the trash from those stupid chests anyway and I have all the armor unlocks (last one is at 30k) and I dont use them. I have a few pinnacle skins but seriously with all the other options anyone with 30k+ ap has skin wise why would they ever use those?? No the only reason I care is to see a progressive indicator as I said. A little carrot in my face to nudge me and suggest things with a little silly box of crap that I honestly will not do much with.

I just like getting the carrot

[Moradorin.6217]

I guess I can recall back 10k ap ago when I did care though. I did want to complete the armor set. But after that the ap rewards are done other than a little gold and 400 gems every what 5k? thats 500 days of dailies so who cares its horrible gold per hour of reward. So I wouldnt care if people keep getting that, seriously, who would care about that? (I know some do but OMG how oddly petty and backwards)

Edited January 26, 2022 by Moradorin.6217

[Sobx.1758]

57 minutes ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

What rewards are you imagining? I dont understand that part honestly. I dont use the trash from those stupid chests anyway and I have all the armor unlocks (last one is at 30k) and I dont use them. I have a few pinnacle skins but seriously with all the other options anyone with 30k+ ap has skin wise why would they ever use those?? No the only reason I care is to see a progressive indicator as I said. A little carrot in my face to nudge me and suggest things with a little silly box of crap that I honestly will not do much with.

I just like getting the carrot

I don't need to imagine anything, we have the full list, not sure what that question is supposed to be. Focus on the fact that in the last few pages you've pretended it's not about ap or rewards, but about having some marker to allow you check the number of dailies (or more specifically "daily completionist" achievements) completed. Then there was an obvious solution to your request in the form of added "completion x times" counter, after which you went to further pushing for unlcoking ap (something you've claimed was not your goal at all) and now you're straight up back to saying you "want the carrot", even after repeatedly saying it's useless in the very same post. How something irrelevant you completely don't care about can be treated by you as a "carrot" at the same time? That's just not how ""carrots"" work, lol.

I mean if you really just care about progressive indicator then why instantly go back to arguing about importance of unlocking ap, doesn't make sense to me.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

I like the 400 Gems. 

[Moradorin.6217]

1 hour ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

I like the 400 Gems. 

Hehe who doesnt. I just mean in 500 days of doing 3+ daily tasks each of those days as opposed to skipping those 3+ tasks that the 2g a day which isnt caped is much more significant. I just mean the AP chest and gems are pretty worthless when you factor in time. I mean at 5 min per day average which is pretty quick really if it counts map load times, reading the list, and doing the 3 tasks. But lets say 5 min per day x 500 dailies for the 5k ap reward chests. Its about 42 hrs @ 5 min a pop x 500 and 400 gems is worth maybe 120g so we can round up the value of the chest to 150g to be generous and its still 1.5g an hour so at best maybe .29 silver a day from ap chests vs the 2g a day we still get. So clearly that is insignificant.

Also, as I said over and over I dont care about the chests, give me a daily counter of dailies dont and Im about happy but I dont see Anet adding a special counter. I could see them just remove a cap though because its not hard to do code wise and wouldnt take dev time. Adding some counter would be nice but its not happening Im sure cause its dev time for some silly almost meaningless crap.

[Sobx.1758]

6 minutes ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

but I dont see Anet adding a special counter

(...)

Adding some counter would be nice but its not happening Im sure cause its dev time for some silly almost meaningless crap.

Why not, when it's already a thing for other achievement/s?

"the technology is already there", so this really sounds like a weak excuse for why you're pushing for something you've claimed you're not pushing 😉 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

12 minutes ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

Hehe who doesnt. I just mean in 500 days of doing 3+ daily tasks each of those days as opposed to skipping those 3+ tasks that the 2g a day which isnt caped is much more significant. I just mean the AP chest and gems are pretty worthless when you factor in time. I mean at 5 min per day average which is pretty quick really if it counts map load times, reading the list, and doing the 3 tasks. But lets say 5 min per day x 500 dailies for the 5k ap reward chests. Its about 42 hrs @ 5 min a pop x 500 and 400 gems is worth maybe 120g so we can round up the value of the chest to 150g to be generous and its still 1.5g an hour so at best maybe .29 silver a day from ap chests vs the 2g a day we still get. So clearly that is insignificant.

Also, as I said over and over I dont care about the chests, give me a daily counter of dailies dont and Im about happy but I dont see Anet adding a special counter. I could see them just remove a cap though because its not hard to do code wise and wouldnt take dev time. Adding some counter would be nice but its not happening Im sure cause its dev time for some silly almost meaningless crap.

I don't believe I have an opinion about the cap.  I'm rather apathetic.  I just do like the 400 Gems from Achievement Chest.  And, I don't think most players only do Dailies.  APs come from many sources; if there were no cap, Dailies would definitely shorten the time between AP Chests.