The problem with “balance” in this game

[Hogwarts Zebra.8597]

Look at the dps meta starting from PoF. First it was scg and sagebrand–ppl cried for nerfs, and they got nerfed into oblivion. Then it was burn DH, which also promptly got nerfed into oblivion. These are perfect examples of garbage balancing. These builds are now completely unplayable and likely will remain unplayable forever. 

 

Compare that to how nade holo, SB rene, and power herald were nerfed. They still remain meta to this day, despite numerous repeated nerfs. This is how nerfs should be done–the nerfed build should simply become slightly weaker, not completely useless. 

 

Now let’s examine our current problem: immortal core necro+supp guard stacks everywhere. Hmmm… didn’t there use to be a build that was extremely good at destroying bunker comps? Ah yes, burn DH. I wonder why we don’t see it being used to counter-comp the current meta? Oh right, it’s completely unplayable now. 

 

This is the issue with overnerfing builds–they sacrifice build diversity in favor of temporary balance, only for the “balance” to be immediately ruined by the next most busted build. 

 

Imagine if every class in this game were deleted except for one. That would be the epitome of perfect balance–everyone would have the exact same tools and options as everyone else. But would that be fun? Ofc not. 

 

Diversity is simultaneously what makes pvp fun and what balances it. Diversity cannot be sacrificed in favor of temporary “balance”. Yet most people are still constantly advocating for the deletion of builds/traits/runes/whatever, and in turn, variety. 

 

What should be done instead? Start buffing weak builds, rather than deleting “overpowered” ones. No current pvp build is so busted that it needs deleting (ofc overperforming builds should still be nerfed carefully, the same way nade holo/SB rene/power herald were). The only way this game survives long term is by greatly increasing its build diversity

Edited February 2, 2022 by Hogwarts Zebra.8597

[Kayberz.5346]

Ah yes, lets fix the problem of guardian being over represented in the meta by buffing a different guardian spec

 

This is the way

[Downstate.4697]

I hate to say this but 4k damage per second on everyone sitting on node while you sit there holding block isn't good gameplay.

[Grimjack.8130]

"Diversity is fun" >says the way holo and rev have been treated are better than FB/Scourge ????????

Dude Holo and Rev have been in their exact situation theyre in right now for 2+ Y E A R S, thats the opposite of diversity, that is a stranglehold on the meta.

 

[Hogwarts Zebra.8597]

10 hours ago, Grimjack.8130 said:

"Diversity is fun" >says the way holo and rev have been treated are better than FB/Scourge ????????

Dude Holo and Rev have been in their exact situation theyre in right now for 2+ Y E A R S, thats the opposite of diversity, that is a stranglehold on the meta.

 

Indeed, which is why more off meta builds should be buffed to be able to compete with holo/rev/thief. Deleting these builds will only result in them being replaced by the next most op builds that are currently being slept on due to holo/rev's prevalence (which then get deleted themselves in turn), as history has shown time and time again. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Hogwarts Zebra.8597

[Kuma.1503]

I still remember when Burn DH was an emerging build, and Anet responded by nerfing weaver and scrapper.

One had a good matchup into DH, and the other capable of giving its team stability and cleanses on a short cooldown. 

A good example of why nerfs, even if they target the "right" things, can still have a negative effect on the meta. 

Were those overperforming builds at the time? Arguably yes

Did nerfing them make the DH problem worse by weakening would-be counters to it? Also yes. 

[Sahne.6950]

Solution to this problem was already suggested!

Dont Nerf things that are good at the moment! (not even lich!) Buff things that are underperforming...

After the Feb2020 nerf there is room for turning some numbers up and some cooldowns down.

BUT SAHNE WHY DO YOU WANT MORE POWERCREEP?

 There would actually not be powercreep, because we are not buffing the top builds, we are bringing the weaker ones in a place where they can compete. So we are giving more incentive to NOT USE the builds that are very dominant at the moment.

Edited February 4, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[GuriGashi.5617]

100% agree, good balancing also means buffing overnerfed specs back up, which ArenaNet sadly ignores constantly - they nerf the 2 strongest builds twice every year and think everything is perfect. Right now we have elite specs like Firebrand, Berserker and Chronomancer and core specs like Core Elementalist, Core Engi, Core Mesmer and Core Warrior that are completely unplayable.

The simple fact that specs like Firebrand - content people have payed for - are basically getting punished for participating in competitive play, because ArenaNet isn‘t willing to balance properly, is insane to me.

 

[Avatar.3568]

45 minutes ago, GuriGashi.5617 said:

The simple fact that specs like Firebrand - content people have payed for - are basically getting punished for participating in competitive play, because ArenaNet isn‘t willing to balance properly, is insane to me.

 

There comes more to the table, some classes are just not designed for competetiv play because they can do to much or are effective in facetanking everything (SCOURGE) 

There are a lot more classes than scourge and firebrand that have these noncompetetiv design and I rather have them on unplayable mod than absolutely destroy the game (like scourge did the past 2? (since they revert the scourge self shade)) or firebrand/scourge or w/e else was there. 

Having firebrand not even close in the meta for 2 years is an Desaster without a doubt, but having mostly no skill changes for the past 2 years is probably the way worse disaster here. Simple numbers can't balance those classes 

[Eddbopkins.2630]

The problem with balance in this game is that the last meaningful balance was 2 years ago in Feb of 2020. Just my opinion though I could be wrong.

[GuriGashi.5617]

🧢

@Avatar.3568

https://imgur.com/a/kz9qRHp

Edited February 7, 2022 by GuriGashi.5617

[Abyssisis.3971]

Balance requires both nerfs and buffs.