Condi should not equal power burst damage

[Sahne.6950]

14 hours ago, Eddbopkins.2630 said:

You cant convince me that 3-4 ticks of condi damage from 3.4k to 6.5k in a matter of 3-5seconds isn't a burst

haha its the same guy again^^

some of you guys have never been bursted by a powerherald and it shows xD  3-5 seconds xDDD Are you aware how much time 5 seconds in any player versus player environment is!?

powerheralds can get you from 100-0 in close to a second... same goes for any ranger with OWP and RF....I have received 19k Wordly impacts....  OHH and Freshair ele? i think 0.7 seconds TTK is realistic...   i guess you and some others here have not faced someone playing a powerbuild to its full potential... i want to see you guys complain about that. xD because things like that can be problematic... but dying in 3-5 seconds to a condistack that you didnt cleanse is not a indicator for Condis being too strong.... xD i am having wayy to much fun here

It feels like a few bronzes have formed alliance to finally stop the "condiplague" 😄

Edit: I just love how you said in another post that you have quit Gw2 but you are still here putting brainfarts like this into this forum :

22 hours ago, Eddbopkins.2630 said:

I find condi very unfair to use in a competitive. You can dodge power hits all day long but you cant dodge a condi tick.

AHH your right! i forgot that you cant dodge condiskills! *sarcasm*

please stop and go play Lost Ark like you promised ❤️

Edited February 11, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Crozame.4098]

2 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

...urgh buddy.....  you have vuln and cripple right and even 1 second of root... BUT!! you always cleanse the condtions that were applied last... when doing a steal 1 - 3-3-3 combo... which are the condis that you repeatedly apply over and over again...? and which is the one that you apply with steal and the first hit of 3, aka in the beginning....  Torment ticks for ~150 damage per second and is just doodoo....   the bleed and poison is what hurts but it is also what is being cleansed first! if you end your combo with a 2 or 4 skill to cover them yes oke! it becomes harder to cleanse. but a nromal burst can be cleansed almost immedieatly after the last 3 hit and it will always cleanse bleed and poison aka all the damage...

Thief used to have alot more even confu with steal! you could use steal to cover your burst that was pretty broken imo. but they changed that a while ago and made it so that teef is nowhere near as overwhelming as it used to be. they made it so that 2cleanses=clean

A very good player will apply covercondis. But even the best player cant do anything when you cleanse in the second the last hit of 3 hits you....   And at that point you just let a teef hit you for 3 seconds straight without dodging/blocking anything...  and at that point you would be dead against a power build for sure. But against the condibuild you can just cleanse after the first tick and youll be AOkAY!

dont want to be mean but alot of condiproblems are a git gud problem.... If you know what you are facing and have a general idea which skills to cleanse and which skills to just sitout... condis are not a problem in Gw2!

There is some problematics in condis no denying that... but the way some guys are arguing here...   "YOU CANT DODGE A CONDITICK" is just..... its not even funny anymore xD its SADGE

Yes, we have infinite dodges and we have infinite cleanse~

 

 

[Sahne.6950]

2 minutes ago, Crozame.4098 said:

Yes, we have infinite dodges and we have infinite cleanse~

 

 

but are you atleast somewhat getting what i am saying here?  if you know what and when to cleanse... you will pretty quickly find out that power is actually FAR superior to condis and not the other way around...

If you find yourself running out of cleanses alot there is 2 options for that: You wasted your cleanses on skills that you could have just tanked thru, or you build is lacking cleanse.

There is even 2 approaches to sustain condipressure.. first is to dodge it in the beginning, and the second option is to tank it and just cleanse after it....

Edited February 11, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Crozame.4098]

1 minute ago, Sahne.6950 said:

but are you atleast somewhat getting what i am saying here?  if you know what and when to cleanse... you will pretty quickly find out that power is actually FAR superior to condis and not the other way around...

They can reapply condi, its not you cleanse the first wave and its over...

 

I dont think which is better than the other, I just think some condi buiilds are just braindead with relatively high rewards. For power builds, at the moment, there is only one. 

[Sahne.6950]

1 minute ago, Crozame.4098 said:

I dont think which is better than the other, I just think some condi buiilds are just braindead with relatively high rewards.

but is that a problem with condi damage being to high (which this post is about) or with the poor design of those skills?

And there is a handfull of braindead powerbuilds also... but alot of them dont work in spvp... in wvw they do and are very dominant there altho they are easy to play....

Guildwars is not balanced around how difficult a class is...

[Sahne.6950]

1 hour ago, Crozame.4098 said:

They can reapply condi, its not you cleanse the first wave and its over...

If you are getting hit over and over with skills you will be dead from condis and from power aswel... that is not a problem with the design of DoT skills... its you being hit over and over again

There is a stigma about condibuilds being easier to play.... which in reality they are not. you have to hit your skills same  as you have to hit with power. What they are.... is slower. They dont die as quickly as a full power build but they dont kill as quickly also. If you are going anything higher than plat 1 you will barely see any condibuilds besides the occasional core necro and some miragemain. Just 3 of the 12 top builds for spvp right now are condi. If we take top 10 it is just 2 condi builds and both are core necro...(according to Meatbattle.com ratings) But what do i know !? 😄 I guess Condi is just easier, better.... and everyone is sleeping on it.... *sarcasm BIG TIME* better start a forum post about it! 😄

If the majority of people would be playing condibuilds right now i could understand this whole debate... But that is not what we are seeing atm.

 

Edited February 11, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Crozame.4098]

2 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

but is that a problem with condi damage being to high (which this post is about) or with the poor design of those skills?

And there is a handfull of braindead powerbuilds also... but alot of them dont work in spvp... in wvw they do and are very dominant there altho they are easy to play....

Guildwars is not balanced around how difficult a class is...

When you quote me, quote the other part. At the moment, only ft scrapper is on par to condi thief and trapper ranger..

[Sahne.6950]

i dont know if i can agree with that.... Trapper ranger.. is jsut straight up not good.. its a noobstomper 100%. It melts to condis in no time and is easily outplayed by just not running in the traps. I cant remember in all my flippin playtime that i died to a trapperranger....  FOR REAL XD

condithief is one of the easiest builds to play! no doubt in that. But is it easy to play because it uses condis? or because all of the skilsl besides the "3" are complete garbage and spamming 3 is totally the way to go... This is bad weapondesign and not the fact that it is a condibuild.

Look at FT Scrapper! is it a valid argument for power being overpowered or easy to play? or is it simply bad gamedesign?

Just imagine FT scrapper would deal burndamage instead of Powerdamage! would it be a valid argument for condis being overpowerd? no it would still be a case of poor design, no matter if its power or condidamage. same goes for p/d thief being able to nonstop spam 3... it is not a argument for condibeing ez to play,  it is bad gamedesign that just spamming 3 nonstop is the best way to play in any situation.

 

Edited February 11, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Sahne.6950]

i like how "someone" put "confused" on anything that anyone wrote that is showing the slightest glimps of condis are not overpowered.. even when those posts were just naming facts with screenshots and calculations........ and i guess the same person put "liked" on everything you said even :

1 hour ago, Crozame.4098 said:

Yes, we have infinite dodges and we have infinite cleanse~

Funny thing is that all the confused happend in the same minute... so it is not someone reading it and thinking hey this is wrong... it is just "someone" *wink* that was like: NO I AM NOT HAVING THIS I AM MAD NOW AND WILL PUT CONFUSED ON EEEVERYTHING xD pathetic

just look at it XD EVERY post has confused besides those that you wrote... they have a like, even the most senseless things... I wonder what happend here 😜

Edited February 11, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[The Boz.2038]

If you cleanse condis and get them again... 

what?
Do people think condi skills have no cooldown (outside of thief, which has initiative)? 

If anything, condi has more counterplay than power, because evade, dodge, blind, all work equally well against it, and then there's cleanse and the extra time to heal. This is entirely, fully, completely a l2p problem.

[Sahne.6950]

13 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

If you cleanse condis and get them again... 

what?
Do people think condi skills have no cooldown (outside of thief, which has initiative)? 

If anything, condi has more counterplay than power, because evade, dodge, blind, all work equally well against it, and then there's cleanse and the extra time to heal. This is entirely, fully, completely a l2p problem.

They dont want to hear it.. i explained everything deeply... from how it has more counterplay to what can be done to completly negate certain builds like a condithief...

but he is like: I am getting hit by a million skills and i am dying to it! PLEASE NERF. 😡

Edited February 11, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Hotride.2187]

19 hours ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

2. The reason warrior isn't meta has absolutely nothing to do with conditions. Warrior has some of the best condition management of any class, the reason it's not meta is because it can't deal with other power builds.

Not really interested in the discussion (from my POV condi is partially a problem in wvw, with trailblazer/celestial stats available; in spvp its fine), but to reply to this. You are correct, the power builds are the issue, because you mostly face power builds. If there were mostly condi builds, they would be an issue also.

You do have "a lot" of condi cleanse (due to always running mending as your heal, because without it you don't have short CD cleanses and you melt). What you don't have is ranged damage; for you to deal damage you usually have to wade into the condi vomit, cleanse it, if there is more condi vomit play defensively, until you have mending again, then wade in again, and so on. You can absolutely beat condi builds, but you have to be defensive a lot of the time; otherwise you just burn through CDs and then you melt. Your time to kill is very long compared to specs with ranged pressure (this is not so for war vs power builds). And overall you don't want to give a condi build time, as that is where condi is strong. On spb in particular you just have no choice but to take it slow (on power core with shouts for sustain its slightly better, but core struggles vs boon spam so its "do you want to be bad at this, or bad at that").

Would be different if you could afford to run featherfoot grace and resistance worked as before. Or if you had a viable ranged option. But all 3 are no, no and no.

So on paper you have very good cleanses, in reality often you have to choose: Whether you want to heal without condis on you, or heal at full hp to drop some condis, whether you want to stunbreak now or wait for condis, whether you want to clean condis now and have no stunbreak later on. You make 1-2 missteps and then you get melted by condis.

Edited February 11, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[Mythras.2091]

Imagine condi p/d tif condi damage converted to power damage... everyone would die instantly xD

[Sahne.6950]

3 minutes ago, Mythras.2091 said:

Imagine condi p/d tif condi damage converted to power damage... everyone would die instantly xD

Yikers that would be madness XD!

[Tescao.3042]

Why are people afraid to admit to themselves that if we consider the competitive environment as an environment, and not just a mind game, invented by society, then in this competitive environment there is a much more serious rival and his name is death. This is an unbiased hunter. On the other hand, this rival is always standing and watching from the side, without evaluation, and only this force can give a hint that little matters in this life, only its touch matters. This touch is like dragging out a game in which the DoT pressure will always win. Only this life partner can remind us of how important it is here and now always.

Edited February 11, 2022 by DomHemingway.8436

[Sahne.6950]

10 minutes ago, DomHemingway.8436 said:

Why are people afraid to admit to themselves that if we consider the competitive environment as an environment, and not just a mind game, invented by society, then in this competitive environment there is a much more serious rival and his name is death. This is an unbiased hunter. On the other hand, this rival is always standing and watching from the side, without evaluation, and only this force can give a hint that little matters in this life, only its touch matters. This touch is like dragging out a game in which the DoT cleave will always win. Only this life partner can remind us of how important it is here and now always.

i never truly understand your posts 😞 i am sorry 

Pretty sure there is a big meaning behind it but my ape brain cant process:/ 

English is hard at times

 

Edited February 11, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Tescao.3042]

41 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

i never truly understand your posts 😞 i am sorry 

Pretty sure there is a big meaning behind it but my ape brain cant process:/ 

English is hard at times

 

It's okay, that's the beauty of choice. My English limits some turns of my words, but I'm glad I tried to touch depth you still tried to understand. The realization that there is meaning is also a beginning.

My knowledge of English also leaves much to be desired.

[but my ape brain cant process] don't judge yourself harshly

Edited February 11, 2022 by DomHemingway.8436

[Sahne.6950]

46 minutes ago, DomHemingway.8436 said:

It's okay, that's the beauty of choice. My English limits some turns of my words, but I'm glad I tried to touch depth you still tried to understand. The realization that there is meaning is also a beginning.

My knowledge of English also leaves much to be desired.

[but my ape brain cant process] don't judge yourself harshly

im not judging myself harshly, it was meant to be a joke^^ i consider my self pretty smart, but not academicaly, lyricly smart like you seem to be 😄 thats another level

[anjo.6143]

20 hours ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

1. Fireweaver, condi-ranger and condi-mes are not the only sidenoders around. They're viable, but lets not pretend they're the only, or even the best, choices for that role.

2. The reason warrior isn't meta has absolutely nothing to do with conditions. Warrior has some of the best condition management of any class, the reason it's not meta is because it can't deal with other power builds.

3. Necro is not #1 in teamfights because of "condi-bursts". It's #1 in teamfights because it's very difficult to kill with a support, and because boon-corrupts are super important. Not because of the condition-damage they turn into, but because removing stability/protection is massively powerful, as is spamming weakness/cripple/poison.

4. There are no condi builds that can burst like a power shiro-rev or nadesmith or soulbeast. An actual burst is near instant, not over 15-20 seconds. That's not what the word "burst" means. I guarantee you cannot make a condi-build that can burst harder than any proper power-DPS build.

5. Even if, hypothetically, condi could burst as hard as power, this would still be a situation in power's favour, since cleansing is a thing.

1 - no
2 - no
3 - no
4 - no
5 - no

Or you only play ranked/unranked, or u are just pretending knowing something.

[Eugchriss.2046]

5 minutes ago, anjo.6143 said:

1 - no
2 - no
3 - no
4 - no
5 - no

Or you only play ranked/unranked, or u are just pretending knowing something.

4. Share that build here pretty please

[anjo.6143]

Just now, Eugchriss.2046 said:

4. Share that build here pretty please

I wont teach or colaborate for condi garbo spread, but for instance, I just plugged a c.thief build and played, 22.489 dmg in 5 seconds on a warrior dummy (he evaded and blocked some hits). And I can keep doing the dmg, over and over, cause it is easy and cheap, you wont have cleanse enough to deal with it.

In this meta, you can do that amount of damage, while having more hp (amu) and few sources of avoid it

[Tescao.3042]

52 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

im not judging myself harshly, it was meant to be a joke^^ i consider my self pretty smart, but not academicaly, lyricly smart like you seem to be 😄 thats another level

I knew it was a joke. Thanks buddy.

As for the theme, the condition game lacks depth. The concept of a DoT game implies a deeper game in general.

[Curennos.9307]

16 minutes ago, anjo.6143 said:

I wont teach or colaborate for condi garbo spread, but for instance, I just plugged a c.thief build and played, 22.489 dmg in 5 seconds on a warrior dummy (he evaded and blocked some hits). And I can keep doing the dmg, over and over, cause it is easy and cheap, you wont have cleanse enough to deal with it.

In this meta, you can do that amount of damage, while having more hp (amu) and few sources of avoid it

You APPLIED 22.4k worth of condition damage stacks over five seconds. At best, you did steal + shadow strike + one repeater's worth of damage in five seconds, which based on a basic DrD condi thief build in the editor repeater is ~4k bleed over 5 seconds, because we're being generous on the opener.

 

Bola shot does negligible damage and the vuln barely lasts over three seconds.

 

Anyway, it'll take at LEAST 9-10 seconds to get somewhere around the peak of damage. Steal's poison application doesn't even finish up until 11.5 seconds. 

 

Power builds do actual damage in the time given, not 'okay, if my opponent does absolutely nothing and doesn't cleanse for 10 whole seconds this is how much damage I'll do.'

[Hogwarts Zebra.8597]

5 hours ago, Crozame.4098 said:

Yes, we have infinite dodges and we have infinite cleanse~

 

 

Apparently you do in fact have infinite dodges, just only against power builds 👌

Edit: if you disagree then respond with a logical and factual argument. No need to be passive aggressive spamming "confused" on everyone who disagrees with you

Edited February 11, 2022 by Hogwarts Zebra.8597

[Eugchriss.2046]

3 hours ago, anjo.6143 said:

I wont teach or colaborate for condi garbo spread, but for instance, I just plugged a c.thief build and played, 22.489 dmg in 5 seconds on a warrior dummy (he evaded and blocked some hits). And I can keep doing the dmg, over and over, cause it is easy and cheap, you wont have cleanse enough to deal with it.

In this meta, you can do that amount of damage, while having more hp (amu) and few sources of avoid it

Soulbeast, FA weaver, berzeker, DE do that in like 2-3 secs. Shatter mes in 2 secs at most. 

I think you don't understand the definition of burst. Your condi is doing 4.5k per sec. Power burst does something like 6-7k+ per sec. 

Edited February 11, 2022 by Eugchriss.2046