Viper Gear is not Condi Gear say it loud say it proud

[Stajan.4581]

I truly am getting tired of everyone saying that viper gear is condi gear. VIPER GEAR IS NOT CONDI GEAR it is a hybred gear that leans toward power. If you calculate all the power and all the precision stats  that you get from Viper gear it is the exact same that you get from Zerker gear, also if you add up all the condi and expertise stats they are the exact same that you would get from say trailblazers. Now since you start out with a base power of 1000 and a condi damage of 0 It is logical to say that you would in the run of a battle do more damage power over condi. Now it is true that Vipers gear will get you a higher end condi damage number that is not from the gear itself it comes from the food that boosts that number up. Even with that the Power number is higher than the condi number but it does allow for over all greater damage because it gives more power than what you would normally have. That in and of itself makes Viper gear a hybred gear and not a condi gear. There are some true condi gears in the game and if you want to play a true condi build use these gears and these gears only Trailblazers, (Ritualist new gear with EOD). These two gears are the only two that have both condi and expertise only to increase their damage that makes them the true condi gear. The moment is has anything added to it that increases damage be it Power or Precision or Ferocity it becomes a hybred. There are some gears that have condi damage increase but no expertise and yes you can increase the length of condis with runes and sigil this gear I would call condi damage gear and not full condi gear. These are Dire, Plaque doctor. They are a fine substitute if you can not afford the Trailblazers gear or the Rit gear which will be coming very soon. So please ppl stop calling Viper gear and call it what it truly is a Hybred gear that leans toward power.  I do with they would make a gear that is Condi Exper Power Percision where condi and expertise are the top 2 number, this would still be a hybred but it would lean toward condi. Or better yet just give us 1000 in Power and condi damage.

 

[mindcircus.1506]

54 minutes ago, Stajan.4581 said:

 If you calculate all the power and all the precision stats  that you get from Viper gear it is the exact same that you get from Zerker gear, also if you add up all the condi and expertise stats they are the exact same that you would get from say trailblazers.

 

Which makes Vipers the best option for Condi Damage until the condition duration cap.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

[Infusion.7149]

You mention condi gear that has no expertise, which by definition has less damage in PVE compared to viper. Conditions have breakpoints, after a certain condition damage you gain more from expertise if you aren't at 100% condition duration for that condition.

See https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition_Damage


In addition, some conditions apply on critical hits (such as on ranger, elementalist , engineer, warrior, or necromancer) so the precision part you mention is near meaningless.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Viper gear is condi gear with next day delivery shipping. 

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

Going full condition-damage in a build is basically a horrible decision. You are free to do it, plenty of people do it every day, but it will not lead you to a satisfying result. Every 'condition'-attack in this game generates combinated damage of both a condition and physicaly damage. 

I will not go into the deatils here, you can calculate the perfect condition-stats to power-stats ratio for your build. But then there is the problem of power-damage being instant, so investing into power-related stats (power, precision, ferocity) has a greater impact on your outgoing dps. [edit] Especially at the beginning of a fight and in short encounters.

Viper's stats are hybrid with a focus on power-damage, that is correct. But it solves this mess quite efficiently. If you really want to make a great build, you can do all the calculations and min-max every single stat. In most cases, this is just not worth the trouble. A few of us do it for fun and entertainment, but the rest sticks to full or half sets of the same stat-combo. 

Edited February 27, 2022 by HnRkLnXqZ.1870

[mindcircus.1506]

43 minutes ago, HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:

Going full condition-damage in a build is basically a horrible decision. You are free to do it, plenty of people do it every day, but it will not lead you to a satisfying result.

lol

[Obtena.7952]

Semantics ....

[Stajan.4581]

53 minutes ago, HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:

Going full condition-damage in a build is basically a horrible decision. You are free to do it, plenty of people do it every day, but it will not lead you to a satisfying result. Every 'condition'-attack in this game generates combinated damage of both a condition and physicaly damage. 

I will not go into the deatils here, you can calculate the perfect condition-stats to power-stats ratio for your build. But then there is the problem of power-damage being instant, so investing into power-related stats (power, precision, ferocity) has a greater impact on your outgoing dps.

Viper's stats are hybrid with a focus on power-damage, that is correct. But it solves this mess quite efficiently. If you really want to make a great build, you can do all the calculations and min-max every single stat. In most cases, this is just not worth the trouble. A few of us do it for fun and entertainment, but the rest sticks to full or half sets of the same stat-combo. 

Finally someone that knows that Viper gear is hybred gear and not condi gear. Yes it dose provide condi damage but as I have shown it is more power based than condi based. Pure condi builds buy the way are not that far behind vipers gear with the condi damage. If we had a better food that did the same thing the food does for the Vipers build the damage would be either 1 the exact same or 2 a bit higher which is exact what it should be. Pure condi builds should have a higher end condi damage power builds should have higher direct damage and hybred builds should be equal across both. That is what it should be will Anet ever get their heads on right and figure this out most likely not.

[Stajan.4581]

4 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Semantics ....

Wrong the damage calculation shows vipers gear does more direct damage than condi in the same period of time so that makes it not a condi gear

 

[Obtena.7952]

1 minute ago, Stajan.4581 said:

Wrong the damage calculation shows vipers gear does more direct damage than condi in the same period of time so that makes it not a condi gear

 

I'm not wrong. You are arguing semantics which is a worthless activity

... and for the win, the damage calculation is HIGHLY dependent on the weapon you using. 

Don't like that people refer to Vipers as condition gear? That's bad  ... for you. 

Edited February 27, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Infusion.7149]

22 minutes ago, Stajan.4581 said:

Wrong the damage calculation shows vipers gear does more direct damage than condi in the same period of time so that makes it not a condi gear

 

At this point it feels like you just want to double down on wrong assumptions. The only way you would do more POWER damage than CONDI damage in a CONDI build with CONDI focused weapon is if you are hitting openworld mobs or trash mobs with less than a weak golem health pool. If you test on the golems or any boss that is not going to fall over in mere seconds, you have a ramp time of mere seconds on some common condition builds.

The only real hybrid build is a "grieving" weaver which some people joke is griefing your team. The burning  "flame legion" rune with a strike damage bonus allows for high ferocity along with high condition damage such that the condition damage output is 22.7K and power damage output is 17K. Even a hybrid soulbeast (25K condi , 12K power) or a condi holo (28.7K condi , 7.8K power) with renegade runes with ferocity on the rune outputs mostly condition damage unless you play an extremely odd rotation. Most condition builds have around 70-90% condition damage as total DPS.

If you are doing more direct damage than condi with viper's gear then it's quite probable you are using the wrong gear type for your build and/or weapon type. For example using a shortbow on ranger with power damage  stats is not a great idea, nor is running any weapon that doesn't apply damaging conditions as a bulk of its damage.

If you have questions about this or actually have proof of it being different than the established gear sets feel free to debate with people on discretize or snowcrows.

[AliamRationem.5172]

45 minutes ago, Stajan.4581 said:

Wrong the damage calculation shows vipers gear does more direct damage than condi in the same period of time so that makes it not a condi gear

 

If a build deals more power damage than condition damage in Viper stats, you're just using the wrong stats for that build.  You'd deal more damage in this case by using a power-forward set like grieving or possibly even dropping condition damage entirely and going with a full power set, depending upon the build.  

And yes, it is semantics.  Everything can be said to be "hybrid" by your understanding of the term.  Everyone is aware that viper has power stats on it and that this technically makes it "hybrid".  However, like I said, only builds that would perform better in stats other than Viper will deal more damage from power than conditions.  This is why we call it a "condition" set.  

Please get a clue.  You should grab arcdps to help you in finding this clue.  I think you will find it enlightening.

Edited February 27, 2022 by AliamRationem.5172

[Stajan.4581]

11 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

At this point it feels like you just want to double down on wrong assumptions. The only way you would do more POWER damage than CONDI damage in a CONDI build with CONDI focused weapon is if you are hitting openworld mobs or trash mobs with less than a weak golem health pool. If you test on the golems or any boss that is not going to fall over in mere seconds, you have a ramp time of mere seconds on some common condition builds.

The only real hybrid build is a "grieving" weaver which some people joke is griefing your team. The burning  "flame legion" rune with a strike damage bonus allows for high ferocity along with high condition damage such that the condition damage output is 22.7K and power damage output is 17K. Even a hybrid soulbeast (25K condi , 12K power) or a condi holo (28.7K condi , 7.8K power) with renegade runes with ferocity on the rune outputs mostly condition damage unless you play an extremely odd rotation. Most condition builds have around 70-90% condition damage as total DPS.

If you are doing more direct damage than condi with viper's gear then it's quite probable you are using the wrong gear type for your build and/or weapon type. For example using a shortbow on ranger with power damage  stats is not a great idea, nor is running any weapon that doesn't apply damaging conditions as a bulk of its damage.

If you have questions about this or actually have proof of it being different than the established gear sets feel free to debate with people on discretize or snowcrows.

No I did some playing around with a build and found that a mix of trailblazers (pure condi gear) and Vipers the hybred stuff should be ok. With the gear being trailblazers and weapons and trinkets being vipers, along with malice and bursting sigils, and the nightmare runes I can hit the 100% duration. With fury I get a 53% crit chance which I agree is not great but it is better than a 0 I guess. The damage out is a 368 point difference. I do lose the 10% extra on the crits but I can live with that I think.

 

Snowcrows Is trash it is just ppl looking for the big numbers they do not take other effects into account, like what is needed for some effects like vitality for a higher barrier because it is based off your HP not a scourges. These things are all important and most ppl just throw the baby out with the bathwater for the biggest amount of damage they can generate. I have always said that if you are dead your DPS is 0. However most ppl would take a small period of time to make a burst do damage and die and not care that they were the ones that dropped DPS while someone else with a little more HP or toughness kept up the damage and maybe beet the boss.

[StarPT.7431]

Why are you so triggered about people calling the best gear for condi  dps builds "condi gear"? Sounds worthless to argue semantics xD

[Stajan.4581]

28 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

At this point it feels like you just want to double down on wrong assumptions. The only way you would do more POWER damage than CONDI damage in a CONDI build with CONDI focused weapon is if you are hitting openworld mobs or trash mobs with less than a weak golem health pool. If you test on the golems or any boss that is not going to fall over in mere seconds, you have a ramp time of mere seconds on some common condition builds.

The only real hybrid build is a "grieving" weaver which some people joke is griefing your team. The burning  "flame legion" rune with a strike damage bonus allows for high ferocity along with high condition damage such that the condition damage output is 22.7K and power damage output is 17K. Even a hybrid soulbeast (25K condi , 12K power) or a condi holo (28.7K condi , 7.8K power) with renegade runes with ferocity on the rune outputs mostly condition damage unless you play an extremely odd rotation. Most condition builds have around 70-90% condition damage as total DPS.

If you are doing more direct damage than condi with viper's gear then it's quite probable you are using the wrong gear type for your build and/or weapon type. For example using a shortbow on ranger with power damage  stats is not a great idea, nor is running any weapon that doesn't apply damaging conditions as a bulk of its damage.

If you have questions about this or actually have proof of it being different than the established gear sets feel free to debate with people on discretize or snowcrows.

 

19 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

If a build deals more power damage than condition damage in Viper stats, you're just using the wrong stats for that build.  You'd deal more damage in this case by using a power-forward set like grieving or possibly even dropping condition damage entirely and going with a full power set, depending upon the build.  

And yes, it is semantics.  Everything can be said to be "hybrid" by your understanding of the term.  Everyone is aware that viper has power stats on it and that this technically makes it "hybrid".  However, like I said, only builds that would perform better in stats other than Viper will deal more damage from power than conditions.  This is why we call it a "condition" set.  

Please get a clue.

It is not semantic it is using the word for what it means. Hybred means (a thing made by combining two different elements; a mixture.) In this case the different elements are the two types of damage Direct and Condi. Trailblazers Dire Rit and Plaquedocs DO NOT HAVE ANY EFFECT ON DIRECT DAMAGE period there is no grey area on this at all it is black and white like the text on this page. However Vipers and (Grieving gear which i run on my soulbeast) are 100% hybred gear period. The build the char might be running may very well be a condi build that is true but the GEAR itself is HYBRED. I am talking 100% about the gear and not the builds so I think that you and any other person that calls vipers gear condi gear need to get a clue I already have mine because I understand what words mean.

[StarPT.7431]

11 minutes ago, Stajan.4581 said:

No I did some playing around with a build and found that a mix of trailblazers (pure condi gear) and Vipers the hybred stuff should be ok. With the gear being trailblazers and weapons and trinkets being vipers, along with malice and bursting sigils, and the nightmare runes I can hit the 100% duration. With fury I get a 53% crit chance which I agree is not great but it is better than a 0 I guess. The damage out is a 368 point difference. I do lose the 10% extra on the crits but I can live with that I think.

 

Snowcrows Is trash it is just ppl looking for the big numbers they do not take other effects into account, like what is needed for some effects like vitality for a higher barrier because it is based off your HP not a scourges. These things are all important and most ppl just throw the baby out with the bathwater for the biggest amount of damage they can generate. I have always said that if you are dead your DPS is 0. However most ppl would take a small period of time to make a burst do damage and die and not care that they were the ones that dropped DPS while someone else with a little more HP or toughness kept up the damage and maybe beet the boss.

Snowcrow makes builds for raids, you don't wanna stack toughness gear (such as Trailblazers) unless you want to be tanking for raids

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

So much wrong here.

Viper's is a condition damage set as, with only a handful of exceptions, (Read: Firebrand & Low HP mobs), Viper's comes out on top for condition damage.  You want to maximize your primary damaging condition's (Or conditions' depending on build/class) duration(s) and then pump up condition damage.

[Obtena.7952]

16 minutes ago, Stajan.4581 said:

 

It is not semantic it is using the word for what it means. 

Someone doesn't know what semantics means here ... ironic for someone arguing they are using words for what they mean. 

[Infusion.7149]

47 minutes ago, Stajan.4581 said:

No I did some playing around with a build and found that a mix of trailblazers (pure condi gear) and Vipers the hybred stuff should be ok. With the gear being trailblazers and weapons and trinkets being vipers, along with malice and bursting sigils, and the nightmare runes I can hit the 100% duration. With fury I get a 53% crit chance which I agree is not great but it is better than a 0 I guess. The damage out is a 368 point difference. I do lose the 10% extra on the crits but I can live with that I think.

 

Snowcrows Is trash it is just ppl looking for the big numbers they do not take other effects into account, like what is needed for some effects like vitality for a higher barrier because it is based off your HP not a scourges. These things are all important and most ppl just throw the baby out with the bathwater for the biggest amount of damage they can generate. I have always said that if you are dead your DPS is 0. However most ppl would take a small period of time to make a burst do damage and die and not care that they were the ones that dropped DPS while someone else with a little more HP or toughness kept up the damage and maybe beet the boss.

Post logs , screens of your golem DPS without any buffs, and most importantly your build in gw2skills. Arcdps is not required to do this. Your mentality seems to be the openworld mentality of "I win because I didn't die" despite taking three or four times longer to kill something when in any form of toughness tank scenario trailblazers is absolutely horrible.

The DPS golem also has a mode where it doesn't take any power damage ("condition vulnerability"). If not using arcdps this is how you determine how much of your DPS is power damage for a given build.

If you think snowcrows is "trash" per your words and have no numbers then you are just talking about things you have no idea about.

[mindcircus.1506]

59 minutes ago, Stajan.4581 said:

No I did some playing around with a build and found that a mix of trailblazers (pure condi gear) and Vipers the hybred stuff should be ok. With the gear being trailblazers and weapons and trinkets being vipers, along with malice and bursting sigils, and the nightmare runes I can hit the 100% duration. With fury I get a 53% crit chance which I agree is not great but it is better than a 0 I guess. The damage out is a 368 point difference. I do lose the 10% extra on the crits but I can live with that I think.

 

Snowcrows Is trash it is just ppl looking for the big numbers they do not take other effects into account, like what is needed for some effects like vitality for a higher barrier because it is based off your HP not a scourges. These things are all important and most ppl just throw the baby out with the bathwater for the biggest amount of damage they can generate. I have always said that if you are dead your DPS is 0. However most ppl would take a small period of time to make a burst do damage and die and not care that they were the ones that dropped DPS while someone else with a little more HP or toughness kept up the damage and maybe beet the boss.

Classic Dunning-Kruger

[AliamRationem.5172]

55 minutes ago, Stajan.4581 said:

No I did some playing around with a build and found that a mix of trailblazers (pure condi gear) and Vipers the hybred stuff should be ok. With the gear being trailblazers and weapons and trinkets being vipers, along with malice and bursting sigils, and the nightmare runes I can hit the 100% duration. With fury I get a 53% crit chance which I agree is not great but it is better than a 0 I guess. The damage out is a 368 point difference. I do lose the 10% extra on the crits but I can live with that I think.

 

Snowcrows Is trash it is just ppl looking for the big numbers they do not take other effects into account, like what is needed for some effects like vitality for a higher barrier because it is based off your HP not a scourges. These things are all important and most ppl just throw the baby out with the bathwater for the biggest amount of damage they can generate. I have always said that if you are dead your DPS is 0. However most ppl would take a small period of time to make a burst do damage and die and not care that they were the ones that dropped DPS while someone else with a little more HP or toughness kept up the damage and maybe beet the boss.

Please take your foot out of your mouth, your head out of the sand, and educate yourself.  Seriously, it's embarrassing.  Here.  Let me help you out.

Meet Roul from Snowcrows: 

 

He's an extremely knowledgeable guy who puts in hours upon hours on buildcraft and rotations to determine what works and what doesn't.  Contrary to what you say, he isn't pushing players like you to go full glass for everything.  That's a fantasy you created out of pure salt.

Notice the build link for this particular video uses Trailblazer gear with the arcane traitline and even runs some defense utilities.  Why?  Because this is an open world build.  That's right.  That means it isn't designed for maximum DPS assuming support.  Roul, who understands far more about the game than you do, recommends it for doing things like the Balthazar solo he demonstrates first thing in this video.

 

 

[AliamRationem.5172]

59 minutes ago, Stajan.4581 said:

 

It is not semantic it is using the word for what it means. Hybred means (a thing made by combining two different elements; a mixture.) In this case the different elements are the two types of damage Direct and Condi. Trailblazers Dire Rit and Plaquedocs DO NOT HAVE ANY EFFECT ON DIRECT DAMAGE period there is no grey area on this at all it is black and white like the text on this page. However Vipers and (Grieving gear which i run on my soulbeast) are 100% hybred gear period. The build the char might be running may very well be a condi build that is true but the GEAR itself is HYBRED. I am talking 100% about the gear and not the builds so I think that you and any other person that calls vipers gear condi gear need to get a clue I already have mine because I understand what words mean.

Look up the definition of the word "semantics".  Your response here is a spot on example.  🤡

[Stajan.4581]

14 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Post logs , screens of your golem DPS without any buffs, and most importantly your build in gw2skills. Arcdps is not required to do this. Your mentality seems to be the openworld mentality of "I win because I didn't die" despite taking three or four times longer to kill something when in any form of toughness tank scenario trailblazers is absolutely horrible.

The DPS golem also has a mode where it doesn't take any power damage ("condition vulnerability"). If not using arcdps this is how you determine how much of your DPS is power damage for a given build.

If you think snowcrows is "trash" per your words and have no numbers then you are just talking about things you have no idea about.

Snowcrows is trash because they think META is a real thing and they think there is a best build there is not there is just best at not best build

[Stajan.4581]

3 minutes ago, Stajan.4581 said:

Snowcrows is trash because they think META is a real thing and they think there is a best build there is not there is just best at not best build

 

5 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Please take your foot out of your mouth, your head out of the sand, and educate yourself.  Seriously, it's embarrassing.  Here.  Let me help you out.

Meet Roul from Snowcrows: 

 

He's an extremely knowledgeable guy who puts in hours upon hours on buildcraft and rotations to determine what works and what doesn't.  Contrary to what you say, he isn't pushing players like you to go full glass for everything.  That's a fantasy you created out of pure salt.

Notice the build link for this particular video uses Trailblazer gear with the arcane traitline and even runs some defense utilities.  Why?  Because this is an open world build.  That's right.  That means it isn't designed for maximum DPS assuming support.  Roul, who understands far more about the game than you do, recommends it for doing things like the Balthazar solo he demonstrates first thing in this video.

 

 

That build is good for his play style it is not the best for all play styles which is what you and other like you are not understanding not everyone plays the same

[mindcircus.1506]

2 minutes ago, Stajan.4581 said:

Snowcrows is trash because they think META is a real thing and they think there is a best build there is not there is just best at not best build

Please give a list of what you have provided this community to qualify your comments that people doing all the hard work are "trash".

Show one resource you have created or contributed to  that helps other players.